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[Garrett Hawke]

This is really sad, and just another example of the misogyny that exists within the larger gaming community.

People are so pressed over feminism that they'll hack someone's website and twitter, leak their personal information, and then trash their work on their own accounts.

 

[Ziltoid]

lol at people thinking that phil fish is the master ruseman in hacking his own account.

It's not that farfetched. People in his circle of friend have framed the chans before, but it's just speculation at this point.

And that hacked page is so obvious that /v/ as a collective most certainly couldn't have done it. I mean come on, "head mod of /V/ and leader of 4chan.org and anonymous"? Yeah right.

 

[komplanen]

I think he did it to show how much money he made, in order to sell Fez and his company.

Best post so far. Haha man. Really?

 

[coughlanio]

Nice victim blaming.

I like how people call karma 'victim blaming'.

If you're a dick to people, don't be surprised if people are a dick to you in return.

You also missed the part where I said it was uncalled for by the way.

Phil Fish's crime is saying some shitty stuff on Twitter. This is hardly an eye-for-an-eye exchange here.

You're totally right, and as I said it was uncalled for, but this is the age we live in. If you stoke the fire, expect to get burned. I'm not saying that's right, but people in a position like his should know better.

 

[Dictator93]

This is really sad, and just another example of the misogyny that exists within the larger gaming community.

People are so pressed over feminism that they'll hack someone's website and twitter, leak their personal information, and then trash their work on their own accounts.

The thing is, chalking up the anomic work of unknown individuals as "attacks against feminism" or as out right misogyny, is hard to point at. The motivations are completely unclear IMO.

To say it is, further feeds the discourse of "you against us" mentality in regards to getting women and sexual minorities a better stance in the video game world. When in fact, it is a systemic issue that affects people of all opinions: everyone is complicit. And given how this is troll work, it is probably exactly what the perpetrator wants.

Instead in the meantime let's just say that some salty immature individual is responsible for this and not a collective group.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Gamers talk so much about censorship when defending their precious video games. Yet with the way they behave regarding Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, Samantha Allen, etc. and this particular incident is a huge performative self-contradiction, seeing how this directly results in people being afraid of voicing their opinions from now on.

This is a huge blow to free and open discourse in video game culture. I swear, these fucking sexist nerds.

I agree to an extent. I've been trying to explain to people over the course of the past few days that the reason why all info about Zoe Quinn is being nuked from sites has nothing to do with her being the Moriarity of the games industry (as they seem to think she is), but more to do with the fact that it can't be discussed without bringing out some absolutely disgusting people.

With Anita Sarkeesian, so many "Re:" videos and blog posts were focused more on attacking her personally and insulting her based on her gender. I'm a feminist and I don't agree with Anita Sarkeesian, but I can disagree with her without insulting her or her gender. It's just different viewpoints, and the people presenting a lot of these "alternative" view points were basically just misogynists in disguise.

 

[Messofanego]

Can we stop with this though, I've seen it a lot lately, blaming everyone in the collective for the actions of a loud minority group. I consider myself a 'gamer' (although I'm not a fan of the word) and to an extent I am nerdy about some of my interests. I imagine you consider yourself to be too. I don't associate myself with any of these individuals so can I not to be lumped into their malicious actions? I welcome diversity in the community and the types of games we play, this group does not represent me or my interests as a gamer or a nerd.

Can we get over using 'gamer' and 'nerd' as a pejorative when someone who is interested in games also acts like an asshole, you can be one or the other or both but just because you are one doesn't necessarily mean you are automatically the other, thanks.

But reasonable people aren't the one with the voices and using their power to silence others, none of us are over at 4chan or whatever to reduce these kind of things. All we reasonable gamers can do is send positivity to people being harassed to make them feel like the harassers are a minority. We could be the majority, but we're silent and not doing enough.

There's a beautiful hypocrisy that the bullied have become the bullies. Now that this hobby is shared with more than just a homogenous group, they want it back to the old times.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

The thing is, chalking up the anomic work of unknown individuals to attacks against feminism or as out right misogyny, is hard to point at.

To say it is, further feeds the discourse of "you against us" in regards to getting women and sexual minorities a better stance in the video game world.

Instead in the meantime let's just say that some salty immature individual is responsible for this and not a collective group.

But this isn't an isolated incident. Zoe Quinn has been at the brunt of many misogynistic posts/videos/blogs etc over the past few days, and this happened because Phil Fish tried to defend her from that. I'm not on the Zoe Quinn defence force, but the tabloid aspect of it all was absolutely disgusting and was mostly based on her gender. The two events are directly related - just because not every misogynist who was trashing/leaking personal info/spreading nude photos of Zoe Quinn, mostly because of her gender, would resort to this doesn't mean that whoever did this wasn't one of them. The message they posted on the site indicates that they probably were one of them.

 

[MrOddbird]

Or if it was someone from GameFaqs that just wanted to make GAF look bad!?!? EVERYONE IS A SUSPECT

Or perhaps it's just a single invidual without any preference of a web site. For all we could know, he could be posting on NeoGaf, Reddit and 4chan etc.

Seeing this sort of action has always been frightening. I hope that these sort of attacks don't become popular: In the digital age, anyone can be targeted, because the footprint we leave behind is so big compared to the previous generations and it can seriously hurt ones reputation. This is one of the key reasons I don't use my real name on the internet and try to hide my trails.

Worst of all, it takes only a single person- the Joker if you will to push people against each other. The internet has given a rise of bigger mob groups and hiveminds. This is not a good thing. Generalizing certain groups be it SJWs, /v/ users etc. is a bad thing that does nothing to further the discussion.

I think its very important that a person takes a critical look at the situation. It's very easy to get all emotional and form a simple conclusion and take sides. I did so too when watching the video regarding Zoe Quinn, but later realized that there are other sides to the story which are essential to form a full picture. Unfortunately, not everyone has the resources to analyze every single situtaion critically, but at least we can try, right?

I don't know if it was /v/, Phil or some other alleged group that did this, but someone is adding fuel to the fire and in the end it doesn't help anyone in gaining meaningful discussion.

 

[Dictator93]

But this isn't an isolated incident. Zoe Quinn has been at the brunt of many misogynistic posts/videos/blogs etc over the past few days, and this happened because Phil Fish tried to defend her from that. I'm not on the Zoe Quinn defence force, but the tabloid aspect of it all was absolutely disgusting and was mostly based on her gender. The two events are directly related - just because not every misogynist who was trashing/leaking personal info/spreading nude photos of Zoe Quinn, mostly because of her gender, would resort to this doesn't mean that whoever did this wasn't one of them. The message they posted on the site indicates that they probably were one of them.

It could wholly be an isolated incident. Can you prove otherwise? Assuming a connection in a world with millions of internet users, with millions of trolls, is unreasonable.

Yes there are people with mysoginistic opinions, but to say there is a conspiracy level work behind these attacks is not proven. All that we currently know is some asshole did this.

Can you provide sufficient evidence to say that all of these attacks are related into / who /how they were perpetrated? If not, the assertion is just adding to a negative "you against us" discourse that real emancipatory work probably does not need.

 

[Chobel]

I think he did it to show how much money he made, in order to sell Fez and his company.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

It could wholly be an isolated incident. Can you prove otherwise? Assuming a connection in a world with millions of internet users, with millions of trolls, is unreasonable.

Yes there are people with mysoginistic opinions, but to say there is a conspiracy level work behind these attacks is not proven. All that we know is some asshole did this.

Can you provide sufficient evidence to say that all of these attacks are related into / who /how they were perpetrated? If not, the assertion is just adding to a negative you against us discourse that real emancipatory work probably does not need.

I think the fact that the message they left was that it was to punish Phil Fish for his "feminist SJW tendencies" right after he defended Zoe Quinn is enough evidence to suggest a connection. But if you don't think that's enough, then we'll just have to disagree on it.

 

[Nibel]

Use 1password to generate random passwords for everything you use.
Turn on 2-factor authentication for anything you can.
And if you are super paranoid, use a unique email address for every single service you sign up for.

I'm a fan of KeePass with unique passwords for EVERY site. It has some nice add-ons for browsers as well. Beyond that use 2-step authentication everywhere you can (Google, Microsoft, game accounts, social media accounts, etc.).

Thanks guys, 1Password looks like exactly what I've been searching for; 2-step authentication is activated on most services I use, but thanks!

 

[captainnapalm]

This is really sad, and just another example of the misogyny that exists within the larger gaming community.

People are so pressed over feminism that they'll hack someone's website and twitter, leak their personal information, and then trash their work on their own accounts.

I really don't think this has anything to do with feminism. I'm hardly plugged into this whole weird online subculture around gaming, but it's clear that there are now camps pitted against each other and engaged in tit-for-tat. The actual issues? Long gone by the wayside.

And the so-called "SJW" side, well, they are hardly blameless. I personally found a lot of these people to be quite vitriolic and accusatory and derogatory of others. I noticed this when I started visiting neogaf more and got linked to a lot of games journalism and the whole subculture. Some of these people seemed quite strident and intent on creating an enemy and often being quite divisive. Well it appears they now have an enemy.

This is really what the whole Zoe Quinn thing is to my mind. An opportunity to hoist one of these types by their own petard, so to speak, as a kind of pushback, and then an attempt by others to squash the whole thing, which of course only made it worse.

It's bizarrely entertaining and more than a little ridiculous, but as this incident shows, shit can get quite real.

 

[ponpo]

Sucks about all the privacy leaks but maybe now since he 'quit videogames' he can lead a normal life instead of his tri-hourly shitting on the industry he was a part of and blaming it for everything.

 

[Dictator93]

I think the fact that the message they left was that it was to punish Phil Fish for his "feminist SJW tendencies" right after he defended Zoe Quinn is enough evidence to suggest a connection. But if you don't think that's enough, then we'll just have to disagree on it.

If I hacked Phil Fishs website and wrote,

"God is great, long live the new Caliphate." Would you immediately suspect ISIS or Al Qaida? Some conspiracy level organisational work?

Or would you, more reasonably, assume that someone just wrote something which may or may not be connected to a larger group.

 

[Toxi]

I really don't think this has anything to do with feminism. I'm hardly plugged into this whole weird online subculture around gaming, but it's clear that there are now camps pitted against each other and engaged in tit-for-tat. The actual issues? Long gone by the wayside.

And the so-called "SJW" side, well, they are hardly blameless. I personally found a lot of these people to be quite vitriolic and accusatory and derogatory of others. I noticed this when I started visiting neogaf more and got linked to a lot of games journalism and the whole subculture. Some of these people seemed quite strident and intent on creating an enemy and often being quite divisive. Well it appears they now have an enemy.

This is really what the whole Zoe Quinn thing is to my mind. An opportunity to hoist one of these types by their own petard, so to speak, as a kind of pushback, and then an attempt by others to squash the whole thing, which of course only made it worse.

It's bizarrely entertaining and more than a little ridiculous, but as this incident shows, shit can get quite real.

We will not let you destroy our gaming industry with your feminist SJW tendencies.

Also, "hardly blameless"? We're talking about leaking people's personal information for a few comments on twitter. There is nobody to blame but the people who did this.

 

[YianGaruga]

Sucks about all the privacy leaks but maybe now since he 'quit videogames' he can lead a normal life instead of his tri-hourly shitting on the industry he was a part of and blaming it for everything.

He already quit a year ago. For some reason he decided to come back and continue right where he left off.

 

[Maebe]

I think it's silly for people to say Phil did this for attention, he doesn't need to go this far for that. On the other hand I don't think it's that strange for some pathetic 4channer considering how bizarrely invested they are(well, /v/) in this situation.

I really don't think this has anything to do with feminism. I'm hardly plugged into this whole weird online subculture around gaming, but it's clear that there are now camps pitted against each other and engaged in tit-for-tat. The actual issues? Long gone by the wayside.

It's all about that. And anything else related to social justice it seems. I don't get why anyone is so hung up on this stuff to go these lengths. And I would not but these people on the or even near the same level of the ones hacking accounts and leaking info. And I'd say 4chan is a heavy user of derogatory terms and vitriol, much higher than any "SJW".

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Or would you, more reasonably, assume that someone just wrote something which may or may not be connected to a larger group.

If you hacked it right after Phil Fish wrote something on twitter about that issue then maybe.

This is a different ball park altogether. It would make sense for a misogynist to hack Phil Fish's website after he tweeted about feminism. It wouldn't make sense for a member of those groups to hack Phil Fish's website at all.

 

[Hoje0308]

is it bad that i have no empathy for Phil fish in this matter

Yes

 

[MrBadger]

I don't get how anybody can think he deserved this. His biggest crime was talking shit on twitter.

 

[Pennywise]

Also, "hardly blameless"? We're talking about leaking people's personal information for a few comments on twitter. Fuck that. There is nobody to blame but the people who did this.

Let's not forget that these individuals are first on the front when DRM or consumer rights are on the verge.
Leaking this information just proves what kind of bigot idiots they are with their double standards.

 

[Dictator93]

If you hacked it right after Phil Fish wrote something on twitter about that issue then maybe.

This is a different ball park altogether. It would make sense for a misogynist to hack Phil Fish's website after he tweeted about feminism. It wouldn't make sense for a member of those groups to hack Phil Fish's website at all.

If the Zoe Quin episode should have any lesson associated with it at face value, before political opinions get mixed in, is do not believe what is posted on the internet until it is corroborated and reasonably expounded upon.

IMO, just assuming something "because the apparently dots can be conencted with a line" is not the way to go here.

 

[jabuseika]

This is a huge blow to free and open discourse in video game culture. I swear, these fucking sexist nerds.

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable (still largely unproven) nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

 

[angular graphics]

I don't get how anybody can think he deserved this. His biggest crime was talking shit on twitter.

 

[captainnapalm]

Also, "hardly blameless"? We're talking about leaking people's personal information for a few comments on twitter. There is nobody to blame but the people who did this.

I really wasn't trying to justify the leaking of personal information at all. No one else should be blamed for that specifically. As an outsider, it's just been interesting watching things develop to this point.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

If the Zoe Quin episode should have any lesson associated with it at face value, before political opinions get mixed in, is do not believe what is posted on the internet until it is corroborated and reasonably expounded upon.

IMO, just assuming something "because the apparently dots can be conencted with a line" is not the way to go here.

Let's just agree to disagree then.

 

[Fehyd]

You didn't verify any of this either.

As has been pointed out a few times in this thread; Cloudflare two factor authentication is an optional feature.

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200167866-What-is-Authy-2-Factor-Authentication-

We'll probably find out more in the coming days. Apparently some people are going over the downloaded files and trying to ascertain their origin.

There are certain aspects that don't add up for certain, but its also a rather convoluted plot for Fish to leak everything himself.

 

[Lime]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

#notallgamers

If you don't recognize the *collective* problem of gaming culture as bigoted and exclusionary, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Sarobi]

Phil Fish's crime is saying some shitty stuff on Twitter. This is hardly an eye-for-an-eye exchange here.

Haha

 

[Toxi]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

I'll go with the people who just committed a highly-visible crime while publicly decrying feminism.

 

[Maebe]

Who is doing more damage.

Sexist nerds.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

There are certain aspects that don't add up for certain, but its also a rather convoluted plot for Fish to leak everything himself.

Did you play Fez? He's all about convoluted plots!

Spoiler

Only kind of sarcastic.

 

[ComputerMKII]

I'll be surprised if the posts in this thread don't end up being used as evidence for the inevitable court hearings/FBI investigation.

 

[Rapstah]

I hope this isn't faked because that makes so many people look terrible.

 

[PrivateRyan]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

…

With that, I'm out.

 

[danm999]

We'll probably find out more in the coming days. Apparently some people are going over the downloaded files and trying to ascertain their origin.

There are certain aspects that don't add up for certain, but its also a rather convoluted plot for Fish to leak everything himself.

Nonsensical is the word I'd use.

 

[Newline]

I think it's silly for people to say Phil did this for attention, he doesn't need to go this far for that. On the other hand I don't think it's that strange for some pathetic 4channer considering how bizarrely invested they are(well, /v/) in this situation.

I currently work in cryptography and the amount of work that would be necessary to pull of this kind of attack is incomprehensible. Unless there was social engineering involved, which in itself would have been incredibly difficult considering the inextricable introductory protocols the server uses to manage spoofing attacks. It's quite incredible really.

So the effort a few members of /v/ would require to pull off an attack like this is incredible, while Phil would only have to flick a few switches. In my mind i'm trying to weigh up whether Phil Fish's desire for a quick bit of attention is less than or greater than /v/'s hatred of Fish's when considering the different levels of effort required to pull off either stunt.

 

[ponpo]

So the effort a few members of /v/ would require to pull off an attack like this is incredible, while Phil would only have to flick a few switches. In my mind i'm trying to weigh up whether Phil Fish's desire for a quick bit of attention is less than or greater than /v/'s hatred of Fish's when considering the different levels of effort required to pull off either stunt.

Why are you still blaming 4chan? Or rather, making them one of two parties that could be responsible?

 

[Mindwipe]

If you don't recognize the *collective* problem of gaming culture as bigoted and exclusionary, I don't know what to tell you.

Collective stereotyping is a troublesome concept in and of itself...

This whole situation is a fucking mess. For what it's worth the conspiracy he hacked himself is silly -

1) Cloudflare two factor is optional (though silly, silly Phil for not turning it on...)
2) It's not like two factor has never been broken in history before.
3) The /V/ capital usage is clearly a reference to the conspiracy theory Zoe doxxed herself because it was used as "evidence" there.
4) If you were going to dox youself you'd get the same reaction with a lot less info, so why would you possibly hurt yourself this much.
5) If it's some 4chan loner or small group or just someone with a grudge who's been paying attention and just wants to stir things up isn't that relevant. It was still done, for bad reasons.

What a mess. The rhetoric on both sides is getting worse too.

 

[danm999]

Who is doing more damage.

The people committing a crime.

 

[Newline]

Why are you still blaming 4chan? Or rather, making them one of two parties that could be responsible?

I was hypothetically playing devils advocate in response to a guy that mentioned /v/ as the perpetrators. In my mind you can replace /v/ with anyone, in the case I was replying to it just so happened to be /v/. If you read my actual post, i'm not actually pointing any fingers.

 

[Toxi]

Why are you still blaming 4chan?

There's really no reason to. The attack certainly wasn't planned on a public board like /v/.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people who did it posted there, but "people who post on 4chan" is a pretty broad group.

 

[ponpo]

I was hypothetically playing devils advocate in response to a guy that mentioned /v/ as the perpetrators. In my mind you can replace /v/ with anyone, in the case I was replying to it just so happened to be /v/. If you read my actual post, i'm not actually pointing any fingers.

Yeah I just think it's weird to use them as the defaul with zero evidence

Spoiler

It was probably a group of /v/ posters

Spoiler

but organized on IRC

There's really no reason to. The attack certainly wasn't planned on a public board like /v/.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people who did it posted there, but "people who post on 4chan" is a pretty broad group.

Yup.

 

[silvermember]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable (still largely unproven) nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

False dichotomy called to say hi.

 

[aeolist]

Can we stop with this though, I've seen it a lot lately, blaming everyone in the collective for the actions of a loud minority group. I consider myself a 'gamer' (although I'm not a fan of the word) and to an extent I am nerdy about some of my interests. I imagine you consider yourself to be too. I don't associate myself with any of these individuals so can I not to be lumped into their malicious actions? I welcome diversity in the community and the types of games we play, this group does not represent me or my interests as a gamer or a nerd.

Can we get over using 'gamer' and 'nerd' as a pejorative when someone who is interested in games also acts like an asshole, you can be one or the other or both but just because you are one doesn't necessarily mean you are automatically the other, thanks.

#notallgamers

 

[Fehyd]

I'll go with the people who just committed a highly-visible crime while publicly decrying feminism.

There's a point here though. I miss when gaming was about the games, and not the politics surrounded by it.

Recently gaming press has been very focused on social justice issues, almost to the point where many who are conducive to the idea are getting tired of being told over and over that gaming is full of sexism and stop being so sexist. It gets tuned out.

Heck, a female cosplayer friend of mine was actually harassed at a con (by other women no less) because she was wearing the Other M version of Samus' s zerosuit.

I'm not saying that there isn't a reason to call out sexism, but I'm also saying there's a boiling point that we're fast approaching, and the whole zoe thing and this hack are indicative of that.

 

[Polk]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable (still largely unproven) nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

I somewhat suspect that group A is bigger than group B, so don't brush it on "few".
And answering your question, those gaming communities. Not only they've started everything, but also they post gossips and lies as gospel and when they are proven wrong, they ignore it or move goalpost.

 

[Empty]

Who is doing more damage.

A few people mad at probable (still largely unproven) nepotism.

Games journalist suddenly painting the whole broad spectrum of gamers as sexist nerds.

(If you don't believe that's happening, just follow a few "journalist" on twitter and see what they've been saying)

the people who've been harassing personally and doxxing

the comments i see from people on twitter are predictable, coming from an understandable frustration admittedly, but are just throwing fuel on the fire. they're certainly adding to the toxicity of gaming discussion and entrenching the battle lines but it's really not on the same level. it's just a stupid circlejerk, it's not as malicious or personal as what's been happening to fish and quinn.