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[peanutbutterlatte]

Yayy I can enjoy next week's episode on a clean slate after watching the first leaked.

Next week's looks pretty boring. Hopefully it will liven up the Daleks, and it's always fun to see a Doctor's first.encounter with them.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification, Boem.

 

[liquidtmd]

Yayy I can enjoy next week's episode on a clean slate after watching the first leaked.

Next week's looks pretty boring. Hopefully it will liven up the Daleks, and it's always fun to see a Doctor's first.encounter with them.

Judging from the leaks and not spoiling anything, ep 2 is good IMO. Episode 3 is a clunker, Ep 4 is pretty good though not as smart as it thinks it is and ep 5 is the best of the lot.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

I actually like episode 3. The plot is meh, but the character interactions are really fun and kind of Classic-Who levels of corniness, but in a charming way IMO.

 

[Tizoc]

I liked episode 1 some good humor too. Liking the new interior of the Tardis.
Regarding the end of Ep. 1 though, did the Doctor kill the robot or did he knock it out and it was picked by regenerated Riversong?

 

[Metaphoreus]

Just watched Ep. 1 at Amazon. I think I'm going to like Capaldi as the Doctor.

 

[Future Foundation]

I liked episode 1 some good humor too. Liking the new interior of the Tardis.
Regarding the end of Ep. 1 though, did the Doctor kill the robot or did he knock it out and it was picked by regenerated Riversong?

It's meant to be ambiguous, I think.

Even Missy herself isn't sure, as she mentions that she couldn't quite tell.

 

[paradox121]

This is me too. I enjoy the show immensely and my standards are obviously below those of many here (I love the Paternoster gang, laugh at Strax, like Clara and the "Moffatisms", etc) so there's really no point to souring my experience by arguing about quality with those who disagree with me, specially since there's a full weeks worth of discussion between every episode!

Don't leave guys! I feel like I'm a dying breed of people that actually like Doctor Who. And it's generally nice to have positive opinions in a thread that tends to demand Moffat's head on a stick every episode.

Also Romantic Time Traveller Boyfriend XD Plus is the Doctor Who game we have all been waiting for : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuZk-5vaxUk

Spoiler

Beige Batball Vegetable Boyfriend!

 

[Like the hat?]

Gonna go see the first ep with a friend at the theater tomorrow night. Looking forward to it.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Just saw a parody of hatoful boyfriend and other dating sims but with Doctor Who on youtube.
It's pretty great and funny.
Time Traveller Boyfriend XD Plus - Introducing Super Sweary Angry Handsome Boyfriend!

Loved the part with the 6th in the static bycicle being angry at Mel for shouting too much.

Isn't Strax really popular with kids? That's why he's so goofy

Not only popular with kids. Most people also like Strax and his goofiness, of course theres always people who would hate him, but everything is hated by some people oin the internet.
The theater where I went was laughing their asses off with the Strax field report, and you cant get more goofy than that. There were no children at the theater I went (it's too far from the city, and here it has more of a nerd following than kids watching it), so only adults.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

This is why I think the 13th might end up my favorite.
He'll probably end up killing no more than the previous doctors, but at least he is up front about the damage he causes.

 

[The Elite]

This is why I think the 13th might end up my favorite.
He'll probably end up killing no more than the previous doctors, but at least he is up front about the damage he causes.

13th?

He's the 14th!!

 

[petethepanda]

Catching up over the last few days. Finished s7, now on Day of the Doctor. I hope this someday has a showrunner who doesn't feel the need to end things in bouts of extreme fanservice.

Edit: Well, unlike the episodes and specials that ended the Tennant years, this is at least funny and entertaining fanservice. I guess we'll see how this wraps up...

 

[APZonerunner]

Andrew Ellard, Script editor in Red Dwarf and many other TV shows, and a bit of a Who megafan, is doing his standard 'tweetnotes' on the episode currently. I always feel like he makes good points and he always has a fascinating mix of fan nitpicking and the professional script editor points, and also balances out criticism and praise. I always find them cool, and they may provoke some discussion, so here they are:

• Time for #DoctorWho Deep Breath #tweetnotes! In short: an entertaining spin on past Who business helped AND hindered by a longer runtime.
• So, per tradition, do you do a “Hero leaps right in” Doctor intro, or hold him back for the finale? Well, here we do both.
• The Doc is there, but he’s lost himself. What a neat trick. Gets to do “bedridden Doctor” and “charge about Doctor” at once.
• As with Pertwee, he’s introduced with his ‘work family’. Here Jenny, Vastra, Jenny and Drax replace UNIT.
• Hey, we’re back in the companion’s POV! How about that! WHAT a difference it makes. Warmer, clearer, more connected to us.
• Clara gets so much she was lacking. To outwit the baddie, to push her agenda. To be a bloody character at last.
• Sure the “control freak” thing is still something said rather than demonstrated - as it was before - but she’s finally free of a mystery that stopped us connecting to her. She’s finally a solid (if still unremarkable) companion.
• Reliance on old tropes sometimes a joy - I like when one-off villains become recurring; and Docs finding themselves.
• Reliance on old stuff also sometimes misjudged - “Here we go again” AND “You’ve redecorated”? Are we not allowed new lines?!
• I’m declaring a ban on “Nutcases writing on the walls”. That’s over. And did what he wrote connect to the story? Nah.
• Nice to do a Doctor intro NOT set in the Present-Day. You gotta go back to Classic for the last one of those.
• Let’s talk about pace and plot. The A story is “Can the Doctor find himself?” and what that means for those around him... that means the mystery & murder is the B story. And note that only gets into gear (no pun) after a while in the restaurant. In other words: What we expect to be a main story is the B-story; it arrives where movies usually start a romantic subplot. Is this wrong? Nope, conventions are for twisting. Is it satisfying? Up to your taste; I liked that choice of focus.
• I *did* feel proper anxious, sad, adrift, with my Doctor so lost. I think that’s worth *loads*. I felt it in my throat.
• 2nd plot thing of note - everything FROM the restaurant until the battle is over is ALL IN REAL TIME (or near as dammit). It makes for a lop-sided show. Leisurely pace then lightning. Not the first time a Moff script has done that. Sometimes it creates a feeling that we’ve had a start and an end but no middle. That doesn’t happen here, thanks to clean act breaks. Clara captured the midpoint; return to upper restaurant the third act. There is meat in the middle here.
• 3rd plot thing: note how story STOPS ENTIRELY for 2 scenes - Clara with Jenny (poisoner for dinner) & Strax (medical exam). Those scenes feel like pick-ups, done to up the run-time (it’s happened before). You feel the pace flag, funny as they are.Both scenes sacrifice credibility for jokes - Strax’s inconsistent knowledge of clothes; Clara’s non/interest in young men both contradict earlier scenes, and would Vastra really kill a poisoner while Clara’s there, and would Clara not object?! (Felt very like River’s “leave the brakes on”, this. A joke for a pick-up scene that works on its own, but not in the show.)
• Note how the Doc leaps into the Thames, on the trail - then we go to chatty Clara scenes, pursuit over... and then the Doc is doing self-reflection in an alley, his quest forgotten. THIS is why people noted pace issues. Feels like we were meant to go from the Thames jump to Jenny/Vastra and their chart of human combustion.
• Baddies conceptually akin to Cybermen. It’s hard not to wish that this sadness and gruesomeness would be applied to them. (Boy do the cybermen need a great story. Maybe the clockworks will become them… No, that’s daft. Forget that.)
• Survival aside, it’s a stretch to call what the baddies have a plan. Thus we skip to ‘kill you’ over ‘help you’ a bit fast.
• Nice to see the show remember that the Doc as killer is something that MATTERS. It forgot that during Dinos on a Spaceship.
• How does combusting a dinosaur help you get its optic nerve? Surely you immolate the thing *afterwards*?!
• Nice to have some really grim body horror going on. (Faces! Eyes! A hand!) I’ve always loved Who doing that. Still, I guess the most irksome thing is that the gang didn’t solve the mystery themselves. They were just invited to it.
• So - Missy. Michelle Gomez. Brilliant actress. Weirdly: wife of Jack Davenport…who played Steve, author avatar, in Coupling. So the villain is a woman who considers the Doc a boyfriend, played by someone married to the author’s on-screen alternate. I’ll leave you to unpack that one. (I’m just funnin’. I’m very curious about this arc.) (Even if it IS a bit River Song to be once again messaged across time and space by an apparent lover…)
• Some ace actor/director moments, Capaldi after the reflective tray is lowered, and to-camera look at climax my TOP BITS. And the clockwork diners were fab. But on the other hand elsewhere we had misjudged slapstick and comedy sound effects. Hm.
• The big fight was awfully ‘stay tight cos we’ve no choreography’ too. How was Strax not just quickly shooting everyone?
• So, in the end? For me, some great choices that let the characters shine, albeit to a-bit-too-quippy effect at times.

https://twitter.com/ellardent

 

[Fuu]

Thanks for compiling and posting those tweets, APZone. Interesting points and I basically agree with all of them.

 

[The Real Abed]

Just watched it. It started slow but it really got good in the end. I really like him. I am looking forward to the rest of the season. That end scene (Clara's phone call) was phenomenal. Too much to take in.

I suppose we'll find out who this strange woman is in the finale. Is it too much to guess it's a River regeneration? Or would that be too obvious? Though, reading some posts above, her being The Master would be amazing. Though I'd be sad if we never saw John Simm again, even if just to regenerate. (I know he has a show. That's not the point.)

I assume these are fake. What does Tennant actually say in that scene? And what episode was it?

 

[Flynn77]

Yep thanks for the notes AP. I presume he was tweeting these while watching? It would explain the obvious misses he has on some of his points,(for example you can see and here strax fumbling with and cursing his gun when it breaks down) but all in all interesting breakdown.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

But McCoy has a much stronger Scottish accent :/

He come from Dunoon for pete's sake, you need a boat to get there it's so remote.

 

[liquidtmd]

Thanks APZ for that post. Man, those tweetnotes are nail on absolute head for all positives and negatives I had for it. Good analysis without the usual pomp

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Peter Capaldi is going to be a great Doctor. I really dig him already. Clara/Jenna Coleman is only slightly less terrible.

 

[The Real Abed]

Also, I love Jenny. I would go lesbian for Jenny.

Oh, and I loved the references to, in my opinion, one of the best episodes, "The Girl in the Fireplace". I pointed it out early and am glad it was referenced.

 

[liquidtmd]

Peter Capaldi is going to be a great Doctor. I really dig him already. Clara/Jenna Coleman is only slightly less terrible.

I want to love Clara. I do. Deep Breath finally gave her 'something' to shoot at but its still bizarre. In terms of this episode and in the leaked ones upto ep5

Spoiler

im really not sure about the continual references that are made to her looks, either by herself asking the Doctor for approval or others. Its done just a little too much and made me think somewhat it was being done in abscence of creating more of an actual character / character moments for her. Shes 'there' now instead of being a non entity in S7, but with Rose, Donna, Martha, Amy, hell even Mickey and Rory (like them or not) you had a firm handle on their characters within about two episodes tops. With the leaks im five episodes into seeing Clara (double if you count S7) and theres still something a little off about the character (not Jenna)

 

[wetflame]

Isn't there a spoiler thread for leaked episode discussion? I don't want to keep seeing people talking about upcoming episodes they've watched unfinished versions of in here, it's going to have an impact on my expectations going into the episodes and I'd rather see them fresh without someone telling me it's going to be good/bad/whatever.

 

[Slowdive]

Isn't there a spoiler thread for leaked episode discussion? I don't want to keep seeing people talking about upcoming episodes they've watched unfinished versions of in here, it's going to have an impact on my expectations going into the episodes and I'd rather see them fresh without someone telling me it's going to be good/bad/whatever.

Yeah but in the OP it says spoiler tag spoilers about future episodes. I don't think someone saying they're good or bad or whatever is really spoiling.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I want to love Clara. I do. Deep Breath finally gave her 'something' to shoot at but its still bizarre. In terms of this episode and in the leaked ones upto ep5

Spoiler

im really not sure about the continual references that are made to her looks, either by herself asking the Doctor for approval or others. Its done just a little too much and made me think somewhat it was being done in abscence of creating more of an actual character / character moments for her. Shes 'there' now instead of being a non entity in S7, but with Rose, Donna, Martha, Amy, hell even Mickey and Rory (like them or not) you had a firm handle on their characters within about two episodes tops. With the leaks im five episodes into seeing Clara (double if you count S7) and theres still something a little off about the character (not Jenna)

The best Clara is the Dalek Clara. It's crazy that it's taken so long to build up this character.

 

[APZonerunner]

Isn't there a spoiler thread for leaked episode discussion? I don't want to keep seeing people talking about upcoming episodes they've watched unfinished versions of in here, it's going to have an impact on my expectations going into the episodes and I'd rather see them fresh without someone telling me it's going to be good/bad/whatever.

In the OP it says spoiler tag spoilers about future episodes. I don't think someone saying they're good or bad or whatever is really spoiling.

There is also a specific thread for any detailed discussion of them, yeah.

 

[Deku Tree]

Is it reasonable to watch this season without having seen the earlier ones?

 

[APZonerunner]

Is it reasonable to watch this season without having seen the earlier ones?

Sure thing. A new Doctor is a pretty ideal jumping on point; if you enjoy the show, you can easily jump back to either 2005 or 2010, which are both also good jumping on points. There's not a ton of episodes from that group - 2005 'til now is 7 seasons, each 13 episodes, and a few specials. But, for now, enjoy this series.

 

[Deku Tree]

Sure thing. A new Doctor is a pretty ideal jumping on point; if you enjoy the show, you can easily jump back to either 2005 or 2010, which are both also good jumping on points. There's not a ton of episodes from that group - 2005 'til now is 7 seasons, each 13 episodes, and a few specials. But, for now, enjoy this series.

Thanks!

 

[lednerg]

Capaldi is excellent. He seems like someone who can really help the actors around him feel their roles. This was especially apparent in the lunch scene; he was practically directing Coleman, getting more natural reactions from her than at any time when she was acting with Smith. I'm very much looking forward to this season.

 

[somedevil]

Well his debut started off as a big success:

The former Thick of It star's first outing as the Time Lord, in an episode set in a Victorian London menaced by a Tyrannosaurus Rex in the Thames and clockwork robots harvesting human organs for spare parts, had an average of 6.8 million viewers, a 32.5% share of the available TV audience. Viewing hit a five-minute peak of 7.3 million viewers.

This was the best audience for the opening episode of a Doctor Who series since predecessor Matt Smith's debut on Easter Saturday in early April 2010, when an average of 8 million viewers tuned in.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

So I just watched Girl in the Fireplace on BBC and it looked very odd and soap opera-ish. Blink was on after and looked normal. Any idea why?

 

[Sadist]

Beginning of the episode was a bit messy, but the ending was pretty good. I can understand why some folks think the Strax schtick is getting old, but I laughed again when he threw the paper in her face. Classic Strax. Dynamic between Capaldi and Coleman was pretty cool, so I expect some nifty scenes this season. And nnnooooo... the

Spoiler

Matt scene

was pretty good. Gonna miss him. Still, Capaldi makes a good first impression.

"I never had these problems with Amy"

"What?"

"Nevermind"

Lol

 

[Auron_Kale]

Ep was a bit all over the place but I like Capaldi as The Doctor. The exchanges with Coleman were great so can't wait to see more.

 

[Lynd7]

So I just watched Girl in the Fireplace on BBC and it looked very odd and soap opera-ish. Blink was on after and looked normal. Any idea why?

I'd say Blink looked similar. RTD era didn't go for a glossy filmic look, or at least the Moffat era has a stronger film like quality.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I'd say Blink looked similar. RTD era didn't go for a glossy filmic look, or at least the Moffat era has a stronger film like quality.

Sorry. I forgot to explain myself. I meant to say in comparison to Netflix, Girl in the Fireplace looked different on BBC than compared to Netflix.

 

[odiin]

The show was pretty cheap looking back then, but some episodes were definitely more well shot than others.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Those tweetnotes hit the nail.

I loved the episode, but that doesnt mean it doesn't have bad things on it. The best thing of all, were are off to a great start.

 

[APZonerunner]

Sorry. I forgot to explain myself. I meant to say in comparison to Netflix, Girl in the Fireplace looked different on BBC than compared to Netflix.

Even by the standards of the rest of Series 2, which is very early and less well produced (I think 2 to 3 is the second most significant production quality leap behind 4 to 5) I think Girl in the Fireplace has aged less well. It's a very bright episode on the whole - the ship is relatively starkly lit, and all the scenes in France are very warmly lit with yellows, oranges etc.

These are colours it's harder to make look good. Blink is almost 100% dark and dreary, which is easier to make look better. Tooth & Claw still looks pretty good for the same sort of reasons Blink does, too. The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit look better than even a lot of Smith era episodes that had 3 times the money in places, but it's because it's dark and dank. Even in this week's episode, the worst looking it is that strangely brightly-colored elevator in the restaurant, IMO.

Also worth keeping in mind - Series 1 & 2 of modern Doctor Who were made for, on average, under £800,000 per episode. This varies - because they're not given a budget per episode but per series, so money saved on cheaper episodes might be put into more expensive ones - but the point is that it's an extraordinarily cheap show... a contemporary at the time, Star Trek Enterprise, had more or less double the budget per episode, and that had more standing sets they could use regularly. The budget has increased massively, but it's still mind boggling they make this show on the budget they do, really.

I think the worst looking thing in this week's episode was pretty much every greenscreen set in the first 10 minutes of the episode. Looked awful.

Funnily enough, I remember thinking the opening shot - CG Victorian London pan down into Victorian looking Cardiff street set - was awful. The CGI Victorian London looked incredibly fake. Most of the other green screen I could live with.

 

[maharg]

I think the worst looking thing in this week's episode was pretty much every greenscreen set in the first 10 minutes of the episode. Looked awful.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

So I'm still doing a bad job of explaining...

I've watched Girl in the Fireplace on Netflix. Tonight on BBC I saw it again, and it looked comparitively different to how it looked on Netflix. It looked to me like how an HDTV looks with higher refresh stuff on, like "True Motion" or whatever. But when Blink was on next, it looked exactly like its Netflix counter-part. I'm really curious now why.

 

[Tornhelm]

Thanks!

Just be aware that there is so much dross in the first two seasons that you'll probably need to force yourself through them to get to the decent/good episodes. Even with how good Eccleston/Tennant are as actors, the sheer bad writing and horrible side characters (Mickey, Rose and her mother) and aliens (the Slitheen) can make it a chore to get through.

Seriously, no matter how much people complain about how long it's taken Clara to get a personality - at least she's no Rose and family.

 

[APZonerunner]

So I'm still doing a bad job of explaining...

I've watched Girl in the Fireplace on Netflix. Tonight on BBC I saw it again, and it looked comparitively different to how it looked on Netflix. It looked to me like how an HDTV looks with higher refresh stuff on, like "True Motion" or whatever. But when Blink was on next, it looked exactly like its Netflix counter-part. I'm really curious now why.

It could also be the Netflix/DVD differences. You're in the US? Series 1-4 didn't really have a set standard for their BBCA broadcasts as Series 5 on did. They were often edited in really weird ways, and things like colour balance or sound mix could end up adjusted in weird ways by the changes. Netflix USA generally has the DVD versions, the UK versions, for Series 1-4. From Series 5 on, Netflix USA has the US versions (ie missing 3-5 minutes of scenes to make space for ads, etc) of them all. But BBC America still broadcasts the old, often butchered versions of S1-4 episodes. They got better as they went on, so Blink probably just suffered less, being a year newer.

Just be aware that there is so much dross in the first two seasons that you'll probably need to force yourself through them to get to the decent/good episodes. Even with how good Eccleston/Tennant are as actors, the sheer bad writing and horrible side characters (Mickey, Rose and her mother) and aliens (the Slitheen) can make it a chore to get through.

Seriously, no matter how much people complain about how long it's taken Clara to get a personality - at least she's no Rose and family.

Rose herself is a bit of an awful bitch as a character, but the impact her selfishness has on Mickey and Jackie is one of the more interesting things in the show, IMO. No argument that parts of Series 1 and 2 are hard to watch now, however.

 

[Htown]

Also worth keeping in mind - Series 1 & 2 of modern Doctor Who were made for, on average, under £800,000 per episode. This varies - because they're not given a budget per episode but per series, so money saved on cheaper episodes might be put into more expensive ones - but the point is that it's an extraordinarily cheap show... a contemporary at the time, Star Trek Enterprise, had more or less double the budget per episode, and that had more standing sets they could use regularly. The budget has increased massively, but it's still mind boggling they make this show on the budget they do, really.

It kind of is.

I really think it's one of the things that kept the show from being popular in the US until the Moffat era - the thing just looked cheap compared to other sci-fi available. It's not really their fault, but it was true all the same.

It also helped that the rest of the sci-fi competition for the show disappeared around the time the show visually got its act together.

Rose herself is a bit of an awful bitch as a character, but the impact her selfishness has on Mickey and Jackie is one of the more interesting things in the show, IMO. No argument that parts of Series 1 and 2 are hard to watch now, however.

I will never pass up an opportunity to talk about how awful Rose is. She's so terrible. It almost makes it worse that she otherwise has such a likable personality, and then turns around and treats everyone she knows besides the Doctor like they're absolute garbage.

 

[Tornhelm]

Rose herself is a bit of an awful bitch as a character, but the impact her selfishness has on Mickey and Jackie is one of the more interesting things in the show, IMO. No argument that parts of Series 1 and 2 are hard to watch now, however.

Frankly the only thing saving Season 1 from being complete crap is The Empy Child / The Doctor Dances. That was a magnificent two parter and the resolution shows what could have been with Eccleston if we'd had better writers for him.

 

[APZonerunner]

Frankly the only thing saving Season 1 from being complete crap is The Empy Child / The Doctor Dances. That was a magnificent two parter and the resolution shows what could have been with Eccleston if we'd had better writers for him.

When I think series one, I think:

• The best series finale they've ever done in the form of Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways (Pandorica Opens/Big Bang and Army of Ghosts/Doomsday come close, but no cigar)
• Father's Day is just magnificent in general even if the enemies don't really slot into the wider canon too well; Piper's best performance and arguably the second best performance of any new Who companion only behind Tate in Turn Left
• Incredibly, Boom Town remains one of the best explorations of both the Doctor's morality on crime & punishment and what he does to a companion's life (the Rose/Mickey scenes) there's been.
• The second best Dalek story in the full 50 year history, and the best modern Dalek story by a country mile.

It kind of is.

I really think it's one of the things that kept the show from being popular in the US until the Moffat era - the thing just looked cheap compared to other sci-fi available. It's not really their fault, but it was true all the same.

It also helped that the rest of the sci-fi competition for the show disappeared around the time the show visually got its act together.

I will never pass up an opportunity to talk about how awful Rose is. She's so terrible. It almost makes it worse that she otherwise has such a likable personality, and then turns around and treats everyone she knows besides the Doctor like they're absolute garbage.

RE Rose, that's sort of the point of her - Davies never shied away from the fact that she's a selfish bitch. That's the point of her, and that's also why he went for the complete opposite for Martha, even naming her that word because it's so similar to what she is, a martyr. Rose is meant to underline a facet of the concept of companionship that the old series never touched - that to do it, you have to by nature screw over your regular life - or have nothing worth staying for. That said, I think Amy is just as bad as Rose in the vapid bitch stakes.

 

[Htown]

The Daleks haven't been great outside of series 1, that's true.

At least they aren't the Cybermen. Do THOSE guys need a great episode badly, or what?

They're basically cannon fodder at this point.

 

[Not]

It's about time the Daleks got some arms and legs. I mean, I'm surprised the issue of stairs hasn't arisen yet

 

[The Technomancer]

The Daleks haven't been great outside of series 1, that's true.

At least they aren't the Cybermen. Do THOSE guys need a great episode badly, or what?

Cyberman are so bad its fun. Like, I don't normally say that kind of thing, but something about the Cyberman just works for me on that level

 

[Htown]

Like, they tried to make them more threatening with Nightmare in Silver, but I don't think it really worked. They're basically just around to get blown up.

Canary Wharf was maybe the worst thing. They were entirely irrelevant once the Daleks showed up.

No, I think the power of love was the worst thing.