Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue
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Great read. Dude sounds really down to earth.
Yes. I honestly believe that.
As someone that has been surrounded by them all my life, yes. Yes I do.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Ab-so-lutely.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Everyone. Everyone. Is inherently racist. The problem arises when people have their faces shoved in this fact and yet still refuse to believe it.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally, I'd phrase it this way: odds are a great many people who identify with current GOP conservatism are extremely sympathetic towards a worldview that is built on structural racism. They may not see it that way, because this structure is incredibly normalized and is as American as apple pie.
I think a lot of conservatives come across as being unaware they're apologizing for and defending outright racism because the racists in their midst employ dog whistle politics and codespeak. And they've done a very good job of attaching the coded meanings to language that is near and dear in the hearts of cultural conservatives. It makes it difficult to talk about racism at all without aggravating conservatives who see language that represents an assault on everything green and good in the world.
Check out their respective political candidates and their platforms.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I like this.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Cable news is pretty much shit across the board. What's your point?
Well, that's an incredibly misguided thought. Politics are generally about money and not race relations. Being a republican does not make you a racist, doing and saying racist things makes you a racist.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Being Republican doesn't make you a racist, but if you're racist you're more likely to vote Republican.
Actually, its a thought based on personal experience and personal observation to name a couple factors. You might be right that being a Republican doesn't make one a racist but you'll find that, in the U.S. anyway, the vast majority of asinine racist and quasi-racist comments tend to be made by Republicans - even those very much in the public eye.
jediyoshi
Member
But are you saying other outlets are as blatant as Fox News?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
That sounds like more of a problem with wherever it is you live and doesn't really have much to do with who they vote for.
Pretty much. What's even better is I'm from st louis and you can even guess where each person lives based on their response. Those who live in the urban areas respond completely different then those out in the county (west and south specifically)
Edit: St. Louis city is predominately democrat while the county is more republican (south county and west specifically republican)
This is what I see on various forums wherever self professed liberals and conservatives clash. Conservatives pretty much have that specific reputation unless they are known to not be American.
But this isn't by accident. I wish I had easy access to this information but there are studies that tie ethnocentrism with conservatism because the inherit happiness found in stability and there is nothing like racial/ethnic/religious purity to ensure stability.
they follow the rules of society and stay in their place and worship God, so they know they're in the right. They can remain so "moral" because the person in the tree is the "other". The person in the tree is also the example of what happens to you if you don't follow the rules and know your place. It reinforces their social structure, because even though those black men are the "other", they're just close enough to be a subconscious reminder of what happens to those who step out of line. Those smiling white people are celebrating their conformity, and displaying the darkest part of their nature at the same time. It's almost fascinating, the layers you can discern from just staring at this picture.
American conservatives ALL have a racial issue to overcome. Inherently racist? Depends on how you wish to interpret the word "inherent", but their entire party is stained by actions that play out in the dimensions of race and social inequality. They can't escape it and I dare you to deny it.
I dare you.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
All national level politics in America may be corrupt and paid for. But there is branding. Party-line Republicans have really gone all-in with making their brand friendly towards a number demographics. Some of those just happen to be a few particular flavors of racist.
I am reminded of a comment I read elsewhere online. That while race is a relatively trivial factoid of biological variation, racism itself is a different order of thing. In fact, confusion over this is why many people think "too big a deal" is made over racism. "Why can't we just treat people as people? In fact, you talk about race so much, you must be the real racist!"
For the racist, race is a simple, but incredibly useful attribute to use for social leverage. Imagine for a moment a group wants needs to exploit a certain percentage of the population. They need to "other" those people so that everyone else will not object to brutalizing ordinary human beings. Skin color and minor structural features are perfect because they're obvious, people can't change them (not easily yet), and as long as breeding is controlled, such attributes stay more or less cohesively within a designated subgroup. Racism in this sense is less about actual race than it is social power brokers manipulating the structure of society for someone's benefit at the expense of an exploited people. (The prison industrial complex loves people of color.) Of course, there are always a number of people who have a strong visceral reaction to biological race and actually experience revulsion based on it. More's the better for the ones who oversee society; those who hate purely for the sake of hate make great foot soldiers and propaganda merchants. They will go about telling stories that help "other" the targeted group all on their own, free of charge.
I am reminded of a comment I read elsewhere online. That while race is a relatively trivial factoid of biological variation, racism itself is a different order of thing. In fact, confusion over this is why many people think "too big a deal" is made over racism. "Why can't we just treat people as people? In fact, you talk about race so much, you must be the real racist!"
For the racist, race is a simple, but incredibly useful attribute to use for social leverage. Imagine for a moment a group wants needs to exploit a certain percentage of the population. They need to "other" those people so that everyone else will not object to brutalizing ordinary human beings. Skin color and minor structural features are perfect because they're obvious, people can't change them (not easily yet), and as long as breeding is controlled, such attributes stay more or less cohesively within a designated subgroup. Racism in this sense is less about actual race than it is social power brokers manipulating the structure of society for someone's benefit at the expense of an exploited people. (The prison industrial complex loves people of color.) Of course, there are always a number of people who have a strong visceral reaction to biological race and actually experience revulsion based on it. More's the better for the ones who oversee society; those who hate purely for the sake of hate make great foot soldiers and propaganda merchants. They will go about telling stories that help "other" the targeted group all on their own, free of charge.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
So, anecdotally you have met racists who are also republicans, so all republicans must be racist? I'll say it again, that's a misguided thought. The average republican isn't Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, or Anthony Cumia. Just like the average democrat isn't Bill Maher and the average christian isn't Fred Phelps. It's pretty funny to see people all up in arms about some pseudo racist facebook posts while actively engaging in bigoted behavior.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
And republicans have to pander to that part of their fanbase in order for votes and loyalty.
I understand what you are saying, but come on.
take your straw dog elsewhere. Most people won't agree that all republicans are or must be racist. That's not the issue here and wasn't until you raised it up to walk it around.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Yea, check out the strawman I've built here. Clearly nobody thinks that.
Fox News is in a category all by itself. No other news outlet is racist like Fox News.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/06/13/updated-fox-news-long-history-of-race-baiting/180529
Quite a few elected republicans do and say a lot of racist things. There are some racist policy in the Republican platform so if you don't agree with those things, why continue to be a Republican.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Sure do.
How about this the only people on my Facebook feed that have said racist things are conversatives yet I have a lot more conservatives who haven't said it. Does that help?
wow 5 whole quotes.
Read both my posts. If you want to draw out everyone who thinks that, go ahead, and start your own thread and you can fight about it.
You brought your straw dog around to be attacked so you can support your "everyone is always attacking conservatives and its unfair" mentality. Some things that they are being attacked on are legitimate, but so many use their victim mentality as a way to pretend they're somehow under siege, when really they just can't stand criticism because it implies that they've done wrong.
Well, you did say majority at first, and now you're saying all. So you haven't quoted anyone saying all.
Actually you asked if we believe a MAJORITY are racist while Akira objected to your implications that we are talking about ALL conservatives.
Would you care to reconsider your reaction to Akira's post?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Yea. You're right. I won't derail this thread further because there has genuinely been some quality discussion in here. It's just sad to me how being a fiscal conservative pretty much makes you a racist these days on the internet, that's all.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Republicans are the victims of bigots on this page.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I don't think you should stop here honestly. Elucidate exactly what you mean when you say "fiscal conservative."
Funny how i always see fiscal conservatives attack liberals over it but never see them doing anything about trying to fix the image with their own party. Sounds to me more like turning a blind eye to it and just wanting everyone else to as well. Then again thats a tactic we see quite often.
Why are you so happy using broad strokes about people in this thread? When there is a consensus, it is normal to talk about the group. And I will agree, in this thread the consensus is that those on the right and conservatives are generally racist in some way. But the consensus FROM the right is racism. Deal with it.
If you're a fiscal conservative, why do you call yourself a Republican?
The current Republican party is ruled by social conservatives and there is quite a bit of bigotry and racism from those people.
kame-sennin
Member
What conservative policies aren't racist? Someone tells me they're ok with dropping bombs on Iraqi babies, and I'm not supposed to think they're racist? They tell me they support the death penalty more when they find out it's more likely to be used on black people, but I shouldn't call them a racist? They want to cut welfare because in their mind, it's black children who are "leeching" off the system, and you want to tell me with a straight face that these people aren't racist? What the hell is a racist then?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Republicans haven't been "fiscally conservative" in fucking decades dude.
kame-sennin
Member
Also, why are we pretending that fiscal conservatism does not cause real, physical harm, and that people of color don't bear the brunt of that harm?
I don't know, they've been pretty fiscally responsible about having their constituents pay little into the system.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I think it's sad when conservatives try to point the finger and equate the type of thinking that leads to Michael Brown getting killed versus the type of thinking that gets peoples feelings hurt on the internet.
Those people aren't actual fiscal conservatives, they still fall under the social conservative tent. They are only fiscally conservatives when it comes to things that help people of color. These same people love our bloated military budget so they're not actual fiscal conservatives.
bishopcruz
Member
What you see here, is honestly one of the problems, but of a different sort. The Us vs Them mentality is a powerful one, extremely powerful, and you see it all the time. We see it here in Ferguson, where the cops have been trained to see the citizens of Ferguson, (or certain citizens of Ferguson) as the "other" something they are at war with. In that same way, the cops are seen as the other, someone who is out to get them, by those they are supposed to be serving. Some of it is structurally racist, some is the effects of the "War on Crime" mentality, but none of it ends in a good place. Hell the level of outrage we see in this issue would be a hell of a lot less if there was actual transparency between the cops and the citizens, if there was actual accountability, but for too long cops have had the discretion to act like thugs.
But the "us vs them" mentality stretches all over the place. Democrats and Rebuplicans use language and quite often in my experience believe that the opposing party is filled with nothing but well-intentioned lackwits, evil wannabe overlords, or self serving exploiters of race, class, or whatever you want. To many, the idea of a conservative, or a progressive means someone who is not only wrong on matters of policy, but someone who is actively out to destroy whatever nebulous thing it is that makes America, America.
This is especially true for people whose political leaning is a huge part of their identity. Sad thing is, I never see it changing. pre-2008, I would roll my eyes at friends calling GW a "racist Hitler", and today I roll my eyes at family calling Obama a "closet communist".
Vicetrailia
Banned
I know thispaintingpoorly composed photoshop is politically and morally offensive, but I can't help but be fascinated by it as a work of art. Why is it that the American ultra right is so talentless? Of course the artist has technical skill, but their ability to convey ideas artistically is so limited and literal. There's no synthesis of the ideas the artist wants to convey. Literally everything the artist wants to discuss is thrown onto the canvas - a fully rendered officer, his hyper masculine appearance, protecting a blond haired white girl, who's clutching a teddy bear, and shielded by the officer's angel wings, which are adorned with stars and stripes, and behind them is another American flag, and in that image a superimposed eagle looking down, in the background, golden wheat fields in 'heartland' America, but the color pallet suggests some kind of dystopia, America in peril... And on top of all that is a fascist, racist inscription in shitty calligraphy for those who might not have gleaned the point.
The lack of subtlety is astounding. And you see this in American radical right wing art all the time. Why is that?
Its as if the audience can't read or can't understand politics or something. As you say absolutely nothing extra is added. What you see is the exact story being told, conveying a message as simply and effectively as possible. Those whom match the profile are supposed to like it and find appreciation, and those who do not cannot tolerate it. Propaganda. Some of the lowest level of art in history from a goodwill standpoint.
Economic interests have nothing to do with social values.
A better question would be why follow a party that betrayed many of the economic ideals during the Bush Jr era?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
One side is against: gender equality, racial equality, marriage rights, union rights, welfare, Medicare/medicade and gun control while also supporting insanely unjust prisons in a semi-permanent police state. This is before all the coded nonsense about thugs and welfare queens and young bucks. But how dare you call them bigots.
neoism
Member
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I know thispaintingpoorly composed photoshop is politically and morally offensive, but I can't help but be fascinated by it as a work of art. Why is it that the American ultra right is so talentless? Of course the artist has technical skill, but their ability to convey ideas artistically is so limited and literal. There's no synthesis of the ideas the artist wants to convey. Literally everything the artist wants to discuss is thrown onto the canvas - a fully rendered officer, his hyper masculine appearance, protecting a blond haired white girl, who's clutching a teddy bear, and shielded by the officer's angel wings, which are adorned with stars and stripes, and behind them is another American flag, and in that image a superimposed eagle looking down, in the background, golden wheat fields in 'heartland' America, but the color pallet suggests some kind of dystopia, America in peril... And on top of all that is a fascist, racist inscription in shitty calligraphy for those who might not have gleaned the point.
The lack of subtlety is astounding. And you see this in American radical right wing art all the time. Why is that?
Their same deal with soldiers, it's a rather disturbing level of hero worship.
Nope. It's a wide swath of the country. Sorry you disagree.
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