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[A-V-B]

I remember The Next Doctor having the question of "why didn't this giant mecha Cyberman appear in the history books?"

I forgot what the Doctor said in response.

Moffat explained that with the cracks in time.

However, he's done nothing to explain the frankly ridiculous shit of the Statue of Liberty waltzing around New York or a huge dinosaur in London. I guess he's stopped worrying so much about that sort of thing, so now in retrospect... people shouldn't've been very shocked when that huge alien spaceship in Christmas Invasion appeared.

"Oh, yes, we get this sort of thing all the time, you know. Best to carry on."

 

[Mariolee]

I remember The Next Doctor having the question of "why didn't this giant mecha Cyberman appear in the history books?"

I forgot what the Doctor said in response.

Probably some bullshit.

Are we going to ignore all the other citable insane shit that happened in history that we weren't clearly informed of having an effect on history? Note I say clearly informed of, too - how do you know this wasn't recorded as notable?

Truth. For the most part I accepted that Moffat used the Big Bang from the end of series 5 to explain why certain notable events caused by the Doctor had disappeared from history, but now that that's over it just doesn't really make sense that a fucking gigantic dinosaur would be witnessed by all of London and not be recorded. Though you may be right and this may have been notable. It's just that we haven't seen it yet.

There is a 1st Doctor episode where knights witness the Tardis disappearing in front of them. They decide not to mention this to anyone or be branded insane. If there were no remains, the whole city would just look crazy to outsiders. Or maybe they did spread what happened and it just became a myth? Who knows! They might mention it later.

Hopefully it comes up at least a little bit?

 

[Quasar]

I kind of liked this. I burnt out on Who a season or so ago, but a new Doctor got me to see if my interest to be reignited. An older Doctor is nice, even if in this episode it was mostly jokes seemingly pointed at more recent Who fans. Will give it a couple more episode. Though this did make me wish for a spinoff featuring Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint, and Strax. I'd watch that instead I think.

 

[Ser Goje]

A Dinosaur burning in London and no one even cares or remembers?

 

[mclem]

Anyone else catch the Only Fools & Horses reference? RIP Trig.

Do you mean the broom analogy? Pretty sure that significantly predates Only Fools and Horses - unless there was a direct OFAH reference after it was made that I missed?

Edit: Ah, it looks like Trigger specifically made it about a broom, while earlier examples used different objects. That said, not sure I'm confident enough to call it an OFAH reference or if it's more because a broom is quite a good example to use for it.

 

[The Elite]

A Dinosaur burning in London and no one even cares or remembers?

Hey,

This is an Emmy award winning writer.

He knows what he's doing.

 

[D_prOdigy]

Do you mean the broom analogy? Pretty sure that significantly predates Only Fools and Horses - unless there was a direct OFAH reference after it was made that I missed?

ship of theseus was a broom all along

/moffat

 

[V_Arnold]

People are actually complaining about the dinosaur in london?
When skeptics in real life are EASILY dismissing alien MASS sightings from the 1600's as "mass hallucination, next".

Let us just assume that people talked about it, nobody who was not there believed them, world went on unchanged.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Watched it at the theater last night and loved it. When Capaldi was announced I was sure he'd do the serious side very well, but I was worried the show and the Doctor would lose his charm and quirkiness and be less funny, turns out I was wrong. Capaldi was serious, quirky, and funny all at the same time, and he didn't feel like any of the other Doctors. He won me over.

Also the shout out to one of my all-time favorite Who episodes was fantastic.

Is the episode available to watch anywhere online now that it has aired? My girlfriend had to miss it last night and wants to watch.

 

[APZonerunner]

Watched it at the theater last night and loved it. When Capaldi was announced I was sure he'd do the serious side very well, but I was worried the show and the Doctor would lose his charm and quirkiness and be less funny, turns out I was wrong. Capaldi was serious, quirky, and funny all at the same time, and he didn't feel like any of the other Doctors. He won me over.

Also the shout out to one of my all-time favorite Who episodes was fantastic.

Is the episode available to watch anywhere online now that it has aired? My girlfriend had to miss it last night and wants to watch.

BBC iPlayer has it free, on demand, for the next 3 months if you're a Brit. iTunes and Amazon Instant Video have it to rent/buy otherwise.

 

[DodgerSan]

People are actually complaining about the dinosaur in london?
When skeptics in real life are EASILY dismissing alien MASS sightings from the 1600's as "mass hallucination, next".

What's all this about then?

 

[ClivePwned]

A Dinosaur burning in London and no one even cares or remembers?

That pic answers every question about doctor who.

 

[Moff]

I think they spent too much time on trying to sell and old actor as the doctor to the audience. reminded me of all those little girls on twitter complaining about getting an old doctor when capaldi was announced.

apart from that, loved everything capaldi is great, his suit is great, the new intro is great, dinosaurs are great, what more could I ask.

 

[Scooter155]

Moffat explained that with the cracks in time.

However, he's done nothing to explain the frankly ridiculous shit of the Statue of Liberty waltzing around New York or a huge dinosaur in London. I guess he's stopped worrying so much about that sort of thing, so now in retrospect... people shouldn't've been very shocked when that huge alien spaceship in Christmas Invasion appeared.

"Oh, yes, we get this sort of thing all the time, you know. Best to carry on."

Right, by the time they started having aliens/daleks/toclafane appearing in modern London every other episode they just admitted that the Doctor doesn't live in our universe.

 

[Scooter155]

Hey,

This is an Emmy award winning writer.

He knows what he's doing.

Hitler was Time's man of the year.

Don't freak out, I'm not comparing Moff to Adolf, just pointing out that accolades do not always equate to quality.

 

[Shahadan]

Hitler was Time's man of the year.

Don't freak out, I'm not comparing Moff to Adolf, just pointing out that accolades do not always equate to quality.

Being man of the year doesn't imply being a good guy or good at what you do at all.

 

[BlackGhost]

A Dinosaur burning in London and no one even cares or remembers?

That pic answers every question about doctor who.

:Lol

 

[Zeppu]

So why were the robots so sensitive to only breathing, but not bothered by heart beats, footsteps, an ajar door, etc?

Why couldn't the characters take a huge breath, start running, exhale, inhale, keep running, repeat?

Why did a massive dinosaur burst completely into flames instantly but not react when someone was extracting the optical nerve (presumably before it spontaneously combusted?)

That pic answers every question about doctor who.

Yep. But to be fair this is true for most supervillain schemes.

 

[Blader]

So why were the robots so sensitive to only breathing, but not bothered by heart beats, footsteps, an ajar door, etc?

Well the robots have hearts (they're extracted) and feet (they walk around too).

Why couldn't the characters take a huge breath, start running, exhale, inhale, keep running, repeat?

Seemed like Clara was trying to do that but every hallway was stocked with more robots.

 

[thefro]

Being man of the year doesn't imply being a good guy or good at what you do at all.

Moffat's issue is he needs some help in the show-running department... he's a great writer.

 

[APZonerunner]

Moffat's issue is he needs some help in the show-running department... he's a great writer.

A Moffat + RTD team where Moffat focuses on arcs and story and RTD focuses on show-running, with characterisation shared between the two, would probably be hands-down the best era of Doctor Who ever. But it'll sadly never happen!

 

[Blader]

A Moffat + RTD team where Moffat focuses on arcs and story and RTD focuses on show-running, with characterisation shared between the two, would probably be hands-down the best era of Doctor Who ever. But it'll sadly never happen!

Would there even be a show under those conditions? I can't even imagine the clash of egos, RTD panic attacks, Moffat vowing to erase everyone, etc.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

A Moffat + RTD team where Moffat focuses on arcs and story and RTD focuses on show-running, with characterisation shared between the two, would probably be hands-down the best era of Doctor Who ever. But it'll sadly never happen!

Agreed. However somebody needs to stop Moffat at times. His overarching plot lines nearly always have boring conclusions.

River is Amy's Child
River is Doctors Wife
etc

The only one that felt genuinely good from his era was the extended intro to The War Doctor starting with The God Complex and the Doctors greatest fear.

Bad Wolf was excellent. YANA was solid.

 

[Blader]

Agreed. However somebody needs to stop Moffat at times. His overarching plot lines nearly always have boring conclusions.

River is Amy's Child
River is Doctors Wife
etc

The only one that felt genuinely good from his era was the extended intro to The War Doctor starting with The God Complex and the Doctors greatest fear.

Bad Wolf was excellent. YANA was solid.

That wasn't the resolution to a long arc, it was in her very first episode back with Tennant.

 

[SigmasonicX]

That wasn't the resolution to a long arc, it was in her very first episode back with Tennant.

No, it was a mystery what her relationship with the Doctor was in those two episodes. It was hinted that she was his wife, but it wasn't outright stated. It was enough for fans to have hope that it wasn't the case.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I am British and my wife is American we both love Doctor Who. She is struggling with Capaldi's accent though which means we have to watch with subtitles. Do any other Americans here have the same issue?

I'm American and have no problems with his accent. In fact it's not nearly as strong as I was expecting, the way people were talking about it.

You know who had the best TARDIS? McCoy/McGann in the TV Movie.

Winner, no contest.

 

[M.Bluth]

A Dinosaur burning in London and no one even cares or remembers?

Store mannequins invade and instill terror on Britain in the 1970's and no one remembers? Why?

Because it doesn't fucking matter.
IF every single thing that happened in the Whoinverse, everything was witnessed by a large number of people in some story or another,
needs to be remembered and continues to be a significant part of the population's history, then all they'll be doing is unnecessarily overcomplicating the show's universe, and limiting what they can do.

Doing silly shit is part of the show's fun. It doesn't always work, I didn't particularly care for the dinosaur, but I would much rather the writers, now and in the future, have that freedom than not.

 

[Chitown B]

Well the robots have hearts (they're extracted) and feet (they walk around too).



Seemed like Clara was trying to do that but every hallway was stocked with more robots.

the real reasons are: suspension of disbelief, and slightly bad writing.

You know who had the best TARDIS? McCoy/McGann in the TV Movie.

This looks like Who Wants to be a Millionaire.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I think people are making a big deal out of it now because during season 5, they very specifically brought up how odd it was that no one remembered the events of "The Next Doctor" with the Cyber King roaming around. Here was have a T-Rex doing the exact same thing and it's suddenly not worth noting.

 

[-griffy-]

I mean, this show is Doctor Who. People aren't forgetting that are they? Stuff like a dinosaur roaming around London happens all the time in this universe. Not to mention that it's Doctor Who. I feel like sometimes people take the show far too seriously and think way too hard about things in this thread.

 

[Five]

Store mannequins invade and instill terror on Britain in the 1970's and no one remembers? Why?

Because it doesn't fucking matter.
IF every single thing that happened in the Whoinverse, everything was witnessed by a large number of people in some story or another,
needs to be remembered and continues to be a significant part of the population's history, then all they'll be doing is unnecessarily overcomplicating the show's universe, and limiting what they can do.

Doing silly shit is part of the show's fun. It doesn't always work, I didn't particularly care for the dinosaur, but I would much rather the writers, now and in the future, have that freedom than not.

For what it's worth, the reason I brought up the burning dinosaur in the first place is that burning it was used as a method of hiding evidence. Unlike most monsters and catastrophes in the Whoverse which are stopped to avoid further damage, the dinosaur was stopped to hide that some of its optical nerve had been taken. What.

 

[The Elite]

Torchwood will contain that dinosaur situation.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I mean, this show is Doctor Who. People aren't forgetting that are they? Stuff like a dinosaur roaming around London happens all the time in this universe. Not to mention that it's Doctor Who. I feel like sometimes people take the show far too seriously and think way too hard about things in this thread.

I'm "making a big deal of it" (I'm not) because it's just bad filmmaking. It's a flaw in the episode I took note of. They fucked that part up.

It's not like it was an episode-ruining thing. It's just a detail they botched that could have helped with the overall atmosphere of the episode. If they'd been maybe more entertaining about it - or really, just had the extras act even somewhat freaked out - then nobody would be noticing or thinking to ask about it. But since everyone in the show seems not all THAT bothered by a Tyrannosaur showing up in London, it stands out as a misstep, especially when compared to something as similar as say, the giant Angel in New York, which is equally as ridiculous but was handled in a way that made it feel more organic within the episode.

That's it.

Torchwood will contain that dinosaur situation.

I like it.

 

[Htown]

No, it was a mystery what her relationship with the Doctor was in those two episodes. It was hinted that she was his wife, but it wasn't outright stated. It was enough for fans to have hope that it wasn't the case.

Why is "oh god I hope she isn't the Doctor's wife" something you come out of the library two-parter thinking?

Was that really a thing? People hoping and praying she wasn't the Doctor's wife?

 

[-griffy-]

I'm "making a big deal of it" (I'm not) because it's just bad filmmaking. It's a flaw in the episode I took note of. They fucked that part up.

It's not like it was an episode-ruining thing. It's just a detail they botched that could have helped with the overall atmosphere of the episode. If they'd been maybe more entertaining about it - or really, just had the extras act even somewhat freaked out - then nobody would be noticing or thinking to ask about it. But since everyone in the show seems not all THAT bothered by a Tyrannosaur showing up in London, it stands out as a misstep.

That's it.

See, it didn't read as a misstep to me at all, but actually quite funny. Like people were thinking "Oh great, there's a dinosaur in the Thames, what a bother." It just struck me as another silly thing the people in the Who-universe have to deal with. In the same vein as Wilf making the observation that something bad always happens in London on Christmas so no one goes outside anymore.

 

[Blader]

I could have sworn the Library two-parter was all about introducing River as the Doctor's wife. Maybe my memory sucks but I don't remember any implication that that wasn't the case.

And in either event, the Angels two-parter in S5 very quickly reestablished River as his wife. It was never any long-running mystery.

 

[The Elite]

I could have sworn the Library two-parter was all about introducing River as the Doctor's wife. Maybe my memory sucks but I don't remember any implication that that wasn't the case.

And in either event, the Angels two-parter in S5 very quickly reestablished River as his wife. It was never any long-running mystery.

I believe they dance around whether or not the two are married. It's never explicitly stated.

 

[The Real Abed]

? It was like the next day.

Yeah, I thought that sounded wrong. Where did I hear something about 9 months? Probably misunderstood a review article or something. 9 months seemed way too long for Clara to put up with it thinking she was abandoned.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I could have sworn the Library two-parter was all about introducing River as the Doctor's wife. Maybe my memory sucks but I don't remember any implication that that wasn't the case.

And in either event, the Angels two-parter in S5 very quickly reestablished River as his wife. It was never any long-running mystery.

They don't say it one way or the other. I think it's sort of assumed as one of the reasons she would know his name, the only concrete thing they established.

 

[Scooter155]

Yeah, I thought that sounded wrong. Where did I hear something about 9 months? Probably misunderstood a review article or something. 9 months seemed way too long for Clara to put up with it thinking she was abandoned.

The doctor fake-abandoned Clara 3 ish times during this episode and I don't understand a single one of them.

1 - Jumped off the bridge during the bon-dino-fire. I suppose he could just have been so full of grief at his failure to provide the promised protection that he needed to be alone... but... huh?

2 - Leaves her in the room with the clockwork baddie. I think he explained this after he came back during the interrogation scene but a) I couldn't understand a single word he said and b) there's no logical reason at all that he'd need Clara to believe she'd been abandoned.

3 - Runs back to the TARDIS by himself and just up and leaves, stranding Clara with the Paternoster bums. Maybe he needed some time alone, but it's really awful to even for a second make Clara think she's stuck there forever just because he needed a breather.

Why all the fake leave-behinds?

 

[Scooter155]

They don't say it one way or the other. I think it's sort of assumed as one of the reasons she would know his name, the only concrete thing they established.

He says "There's only one time I could tell someone my name" and we all assumed it was marriage, but he never said it in the Library episodes.

Gosh I hope I'm remembering that right...

 

[Philippo]

The doctor fake-abandoned Clara 3 ish times during this episode and I don't understand a single one of them.

1 - Jumped off the bridge during the bon-dino-fire. I suppose he could just have been so full of grief at his failure to provide the promised protection that he needed to be alone... but... huh? He was still in full regeneration madness, logic doesn't apply here.

2 - Leaves her in the room with the clockwork baddie. I think he explained this after he came back during the interrogation scene but a) I couldn't understand a single word he said and b) there's no logical reason at all that he'd need Clara to believe she'd been abandoned. Maybe as a distraction?

3 - Runs back to the TARDIS by himself and just up and leaves, stranding Clara with the Paternoster bums. Maybe he needed some time alone, but it's really awful to even for a second make Clara think she's stuck there forever just because he needed a breather. 11th Doctor did te same and worse, he came back 14 yrs later. I guess he just did a test fly with the Tardis.

Why all the fake leave-behinds?

.

 

[The Real Abed]

Why all the fake leave-behinds?

He's having some sort of identity crisis I assume. He was fully prepared to take Clara home if she wanted it. He also needed to figure some stuff out.

I dunno.

 

[StopMakingSense]

He says "There's only one time I could tell someone my name" and we all assumed it was marriage, but he never said it in the Library episodes.

Gosh I hope I'm remembering that right...

Right, that's basically exactly how it happened. I might not have worded it well.

 

[StopMakingSense]

3 - Runs back to the TARDIS by himself and just up and leaves, stranding Clara with the Paternoster bums. Maybe he needed some time alone, but it's really awful to even for a second make Clara think she's stuck there forever just because he needed a breather.

Well considering the doctor left Amy for like 18 years, then 2 more years after that for the exact same "get my Tardis in order" thing, it's hardly the first time he's done something like that, and nowhere near the same scale.

 

[Vinci]

Why all the fake leave-behinds?

I think this is just a Moffat thing. Even Eleven had a habit of just taking off for no apparent reason.

 

[Fireblend]

The doctor fake-abandoned Clara 3 ish times during this episode and I don't understand a single one of them.

1 - Jumped off the bridge during the bon-dino-fire. I suppose he could just have been so full of grief at his failure to provide the promised protection that he needed to be alone... but... huh?

2 - Leaves her in the room with the clockwork baddie. I think he explained this after he came back during the interrogation scene but a) I couldn't understand a single word he said and b) there's no logical reason at all that he'd need Clara to believe she'd been abandoned.

3 - Runs back to the TARDIS by himself and just up and leaves, stranding Clara with the Paternoster bums. Maybe he needed some time alone, but it's really awful to even for a second make Clara think she's stuck there forever just because he needed a breather.

Why all the fake leave-behinds?

1. At the time he was impulsive and regeneration-crazy. He didn't turn into a hobo as part of some master plan. He was just out of control and Vastra knew letting him be was a better idea than trying to control/chase after him.

2. I think this, like #3, was just the Doctor showing how he's cold and uncaring and kind of an asshole now you could probably come up with an explanation but I think the actual reason was that.

3. This is actually one of the questions I have about this episode. Where did the Doctor go then? I'm going to say there isn't enough information to justify this one (then again maybe all he did was redecorate ). But I think this also was to show Clara how it's still the Doctor and stuff.

 

[twobear]

Capaldi pretty much carried it, because the parts when he was not in it, the episode was less than stellar. An then every appearance pretty much took it up another level. He is already turning into one of my favorites, but I only seen the 1st-4th and 8th-11th doctors to compare him to.

Sadly, this was basically the case with post-series 5 11th Doctor too. I really hope that they're not going to waste an actor as good as Peter Capaldi on the kind of consistently dodgy plots and scripts that Matt got. The fact that I can hand on heart say that 11 is probably my favourite Doctor after the rubbish he got given really says a lot about his skill.

 

[Vinci]

Sadly, this was basically the case with post-series 5 11th Doctor too. I really hope that they're not going to waste an actor as good as Peter Capaldi on the kind of consistently dodgy plots and scripts that Matt got. The fact that I can hand on heart say that 11 is probably my favourite Doctor after the rubbish he got given really says a lot about his skill.

Agreed. Matt was amazing. He was just provided utter shit a good half of the time.

 

[A-V-B]

Sadly, this was basically the case with post-series 5 11th Doctor too. I really hope that they're not going to waste an actor as good as Peter Capaldi on the kind of consistently dodgy plots and scripts that Matt got. The fact that I can hand on heart say that 11 is probably my favourite Doctor after the rubbish he got given really says a lot about his skill.

Maybe now they're making lots of money overseas and on theater sales, they can afford to pay writers again? I remember Neil Gaiman mentioning that. He loved writing for the show, but the writers get paid peanuts.