Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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"oh I don't hate Muslims, only the terrorists, so that's what I mean when I say Muslim"

Gamer is a term meant for people who play video games. Using it as a blanket statement is hurtful and mean to the many people who use the term gamer in a very positive way. If you want to point out misogynistic gamers, call them misogynistic gamers, or call the misogynists. Being a gamer does not imply anything other then the fact that you are a gamer.

If I said the Japanese committed atrocities in WW2, or that White Americans in the 1950's were racist would you complain? If I said that "today the Japanese are still rather xenophobic" would you bat an eyelid? Context matters, and it is obvious that Leigh is not using Gamers to refer to "people who play videogames".
 
Uh, I don't think you understand. Look at that person's actual account.

I completely understand, and I've looked at multiple troll accounts from whole hell of a lot of people who have been harassed that make me think the exact same thing. And I don't voice it, because of the implications. If someone can false flag to make one group look bad, well then, where do we stop with that rabbit hole?
 
If I said the Japanese committed atrocities in WW2, or that White Americans in the 1950's were racist would you complain? If I said that "today the Japanese are still rather xenophobic" would you bat an eyelid? Context matters, and it is obvious that Leigh is not using Gamers to refer to "people who play videogames".

Those aren't subcultures in a society, those examples are a society.
 
If I said the Japanese committed atrocities in WW2, or that White Americans in the 1950's were racist would you complain? If I said that "today the Japanese are still rather xenophobic" would you bat an eyelid? Context matters, and it is obvious that Leigh is not using Gamers to refer to "people who play videogames".

Yes, I would. If you said the country is still rather xenophobic, due to X policies, sure no problem with that. If you say the Japanese people(as a whole) are xenophobic because of X, well then I would have problems with that. I'm not going to label an entire group, because of the actions of others out of their control. What purpose does that serve? How about just saying, "hey japan, this is why I think xenophobia is wrong". Nothing is served from trying to force a label onto everyone who is near the circumference of the problem, it just creates enemies where there doesn't need to be.
 
Regarding #Gamergate or whatever misguided endeavour this whole cultural debacleis:

Where were all the gamers and defenders of Ethical Journalistic Practices when Samantha Allen called out games journalism for nepotism? Where were the gamers to fight against the harassment and insults she received for calling out the inbred hiring practices of games journalism?
 
And I don't voice it, because of the implications.
The only implications are you wouldn't accept the validity of any tweets at all--or really, any comment expressed online.

Which is fine, more power to you. [edit] But if you do this you don't also get to "a pox on both your houses" anymore.
 
I think the main problem comes down to the inability of some to separate the word gamer in it's two obvious contexts.

One is a simple adjective of describing people who play video games. The other is those who are obsessed, cloak themselves and define their identity by these games. If someone says that iPhone game players "well they're not real gamers" are they implying that they do not play videogames? Of course not.

I think this is easier in other nerd cultures such as anime watcher, where the word Otaku has (well in my opinion certainly) regained it's negative connotation whereas previously it was somewhat acceptable in the community to refer to oneself in that way. Perhaps Leigh Alexander should've talked about "Real Gamers" instead of "gamers" but in English it certainly doesn't quite feel right, since "real" is an adjective in it's own right with several different contextual interpretations (the very same problem we are trying to tackle).

I do think that "real gamers"/"gamers" have a major problem with misogyny and childishness to a point where the culture can be criticised for it. I think the japanese animation industry has a problem of catering to the super obsessed Otaku and I see an equivalent thing - high amounts of sexism and juvenility. I think Leigh Alexander was trying to express that, unlike the japanime industry which has no other viable way to fund their products, the videogame industry can easily ignore the super obsessed with their cries to be pandered to and turn your attention towards the normal, well functioning people who just play videogames. 'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over.

I could hug you right now. You're one of the first people I've seen who actually read and comprehended the essay rather than just injecting it directly into their rage glands.
 
Regarding #Gamergate or whatever misguided endeavour this whole cultural debacleis:

Where were all the gamers and defenders of Ethical Journalistic Practices when Samantha Allen called out games journalism for nepotism? Where were the gamers to fight against the harassment and insults she received for calling out the inbred hiring practices of games journalism?

Can you provide specifics? When did this occur? In what context? What were her findings and reactions?

Edit:
I should add that... regardless of what happened in the past it does not excuse what is happening today. And your claim that the #GamerGate is misguided or a cultural debacle only shows your own personal biases.
 
Regarding #Gamergate or whatever misguided endeavour this whole cultural debacleis:

Where were all the gamers and defenders of Ethical Journalistic Practices when Samantha Allen called out games journalism for nepotism? Where were the gamers to fight against the harassment and insults she received for calling out the inbred hiring practices of games journalism?

Didn't she lash out solely based on the gender/race of the person in question and not on whatever other reason he was hired?
 
Regarding #Gamergate or whatever misguided endeavour this whole cultural debacleis:

Where were all the gamers and defenders of Ethical Journalistic Practices when Samantha Allen called out games journalism for nepotism? Where were the gamers to fight against the harassment and insults she received for calling out the inbred hiring practices of games journalism?

You're not talking about the Giant Bomb thing are you?
 
I think what a lot of people are missing is that journalists are refusing to use, "gamer," because it is not representative of the gaming community at large.

It was interesting to see a different crowd at PAX on Monday. I'd say 30% were coupes, most were simply college kids. They weren't wearing pins, or headcrab beanies. They were wearing jeans and t-shirts. They simply wanted to experience games.

When it comes to forums like GAF and events like PAX the dedicated communities get caught up with whose showing up to those venues. It's a vertical slice. Not many people who play games will shell out $1000 for a weekend of games and drinking. Only the hardcore are going to show.

We're not trying to vilify the gamer persona, we're trying to move on from it. More people play games than we know, and it's unfair to the to lump them in with the minority of people who choose to define themselves by their favorite hobby.
 
I think Lime is doing it. can someone enlight me on that please?

Giant Bomb hired 2 more straight white dudes to their staff. People got up in arms because Giant Bomb is nothing but straight white dudes. Que cries of racism and misogyny and etc. etc. etc.
People acted like assholes on twitter on both sides.
 
I think what a lot of people are missing is that journalists are refusing to use, "gamer," because it is not representative of the gaming community at large.

It was interesting to see a different crowd at PAX on Monday. I'd say 30% were coupes, most were simply college kids. They weren't wearing pins, or headcrab beanies. They were wearing jeans and t-shirts. They simply wanted to experience games.

When it comes to forums like GAF and events like PAX the dedicated communities get caught up with whose showing up to those venues. It's a vertical slice. Not many people who play games will shell out $1000 for a weekend of games and drinking. Only the hardcore are going to show.

We're not trying to vilify the gamer persona, we're trying to move on from it. More people play games than we know, and it's unfair to the to lump them in with the minority of people who choose to define themselves by their favorite hobby.

So these people aren't gamers because they aren't ultranerds? This is the problem with this whole thing, people think "gamer" and think of some fat neckbeard with a zelda t-shirt and a trenchcoat.
Why is a gamer not just a person who is really into gaming? Like...Part of this whole debate is about not stereotyping or discriminating yet Gamers are getting it the worse of all.
Stop this shit. Stop letting a word automatically dictate who or what someone is beyond what the word means. Gamer has nothing to do with being a socially-awkward dweeb (and even if they were they should still be welcomed).
 
Giant Bomb hired 2 more straight white dudes to their staff. People got up in arms because Giant Bomb is nothing but straight white dudes. Que cries of racism and misogyny and etc. etc. etc.
People acted like assholes on twitter on both sides.

I really don't get it. Shouldn't people in order to get hired, be evaluated, first and foremost, according to their skills?
 
I really don't get it. Shouldn't people in order to get hired, be accessed, first and foremost, according to their skills?

Of course. I think this is where a lot of the backlash towards SJWs is coming from. A portion of that community, no matter what you call them, are extremely antagonistic and are quick to finger point and name call for any perceived slight.
 
I think what a lot of people are missing is that journalists are refusing to use, "gamer," because it is not representative of the gaming community at large.

It was interesting to see a different crowd at PAX on Monday. I'd say 30% were coupes, most were simply college kids. They weren't wearing pins, or headcrab beanies. They were wearing jeans and t-shirts. They simply wanted to experience games.

I talked about this before, but gaming is so mainstream now it really doesn't make sense to treat it as though it's this small niche community that might have at one time made more sense (although IMO not really, but that's another discussion). MOBA players have little to do with Candy Crush Saga players (in terms of being a subculture), have little to do with the FGC, have little to do with Minecrafters, etc. Sure there is some potential for overlap, but gaming is now just a broad entertainment vector: it's not monolithic, and it's participants are increasingly less-easily pigeonholed.


Still, didn't have much to do with the talking point, but yes, I could see how me arguing an idea instead of a stance could get annoying to some. However, I prefer arguing over idea's vs stances. Sorry.

Incomprehensible. I literally have no idea what you're getting at anymore.


I really don't get it. Shouldn't people in order to get hired, be evaluated, first and foremost, according to their skills?

Friendship with the editor is a skill?
 
I think what a lot of people are missing is that journalists are refusing to use, "gamer," because it is not representative of the gaming community at large.

It was interesting to see a different crowd at PAX on Monday. I'd say 30% were coupes, most were simply college kids. They weren't wearing pins, or headcrab beanies. They were wearing jeans and t-shirts. They simply wanted to experience games.

When it comes to forums like GAF and events like PAX the dedicated communities get caught up with whose showing up to those venues. It's a vertical slice. Not many people who play games will shell out $1000 for a weekend of games and drinking. Only the hardcore are going to show.

We're not trying to vilify the gamer persona, we're trying to move on from it. More people play games than we know, and it's unfair to the to lump them in with the minority of people who choose to define themselves by their favorite hobby.
That doesn't mean we need to rid ourselves of the people who wait in line at events and dress like slobs. We don't need to evolve and leave those people behind because we view ourselves as cooler and more progressive than they are. Even of they define themselves entirely by one specific hobby that doesn't make them worthy if being excluded or treated like lepers.

You can move on from being that type of gamer without that type of gamer needing to die out. There is a place for obsessive film fans, sports fans, and game fans. I'm sure many great creative people who contribute to this medium were once these kinds of people.

I think there is room for more than one kind of gamer. We get to a point where it just becomes a case of separating yourself from the unwanted and ugly. That's a bit of a cruel attitude to have.
 
So these people aren't gamers because they aren't ultranerds? This is the problem with this whole thing, people think "gamer" and think of some fat neckbeard with a zelda t-shirt and a trenchcoat.
Why is a gamer not just a person who is really into gaming? Like...Part of this whole debate is about not stereotyping or discriminating yet Gamers are getting it the worse of all.
Stop this shit. Stop letting a word automatically dictate who or what someone is beyond what the word means. Gamer has nothing to do with being a socially-awkward dweeb (and even if they were they should still be welcomed).

They're people who play games. They're the same people who watch movies and go on Facebook.

To be honest when I think of gamer I think of a disheveled person. A person that's lost and turned to gaming as false means of defining who they are. People are more than their hobby and it's unfair of people to lump the unfortunate number of people who choose to be something that's only part of who they are.

I think it's better to simply call them fans or players than gamers. Gamers is a stereotype. To break away from the stigma, "gamers," will have to do more than play games.
 
I think what a lot of people are missing is that journalists are refusing to use, "gamer," because it is not representative of the gaming community at large.

It was interesting to see a different crowd at PAX on Monday. I'd say 30% were coupes, most were simply college kids. They weren't wearing pins, or headcrab beanies. They were wearing jeans and t-shirts. They simply wanted to experience games.

When it comes to forums like GAF and events like PAX the dedicated communities get caught up with whose showing up to those venues. It's a vertical slice. Not many people who play games will shell out $1000 for a weekend of games and drinking. Only the hardcore are going to show.

We're not trying to vilify the gamer persona, we're trying to move on from it. More people play games than we know, and it's unfair to the to lump them in with the minority of people who choose to define themselves by their favorite hobby.

Isn't this presumptuous to assume that these people even care? I think "gamer" gets used so little in casual conversation, that I think the only place it is even a thing with connotations is inside the subculture(the actual word). The actual word gamer is simply used to describe people who use the hobby, I dont think much thought goes into it beyond that. I'd say it is more projecting a perception more then an actual perception. I dont actually know too many people who pay any heavy thought into the term, outside of people on forums and the games press.
 
I really don't get it. Shouldn't people in order to get hired, be evaluated, first and foremost, according to their skills?

We *just* had MHWilliams stating this on the previous page:

- Hiring in the games industry - like most industries - tends to be based on culture or visibility. In the culture column, it's well noted that businesses hire those who share their views or cultural makeup. This can lead to racist or sexist situations without intention. A management team of white male nerds are more likely to hire the same. Visibility can trump that aspect - people will go with an Ezra Klein over their friend - but visibility tends to come from existing outlets. So you have the same pool of people shuffling from site-to-site. Hiring outside of those issues requires a concerted effort to do so and most outlets don't do that. It is getting better - Polygon improved outside of its first hire, Nerdist picked up Malik, Kotaku is generally pretty good - but there's still major room for improvement.

It is reasonable to argue that Giantbomb's hiring practice and dismissal of the extremely qualified applicants (one notable female writer among them) could be argued to be a case of what MHWilliams is describing.

I think Lime is doing it. can someone enlight me on that please?

http://k8monstrscloset.com/2014/07/01/the-internet-reacts-to-giantbombs-new-white-male-hire/
 
It kind of seems like the games press sees that the "cool people" are now playing games and they no longer want to hang out with their dopey, socially awkward friends anymore.

This is kind of off-topic though.
 
But there hasn't been any actual conflation as far as I've seen. Talking across the table isn't conflating an argument.

games journalism/enthusiast press and the problems of corporate influence/conflicts of interest, feminism, nepotism, gender politics, white privilege, internet civility, the definition of misogyny, vilification of the term "gamer" and the notion of identity just waved to affirmative action as it came through the door.

perhaps i'm using the term as applied to logic, but yes, rest assured: ideas & concepts are indeed conflating, hence the reductive nature of some of the arguments.

Of course not! We can't do that. That would make sense.

it's like MHWilliams didn't even post a mere page ago
 
That doesn't mean we need to rid ourselves of the people who wait in line at events and dress like slobs. We don't need to evolve and leave those people behind because we view ourselves as cooler and more progressive than they are. Even of they define themselves entirely by one specific hobby that doesn't make them worthy if being excluded or treated like lepers.

You can move on from being that type of gamer without that type of gamer needing to die out. There is a place for obsessive film fans, sports fans, and game fans. I'm sure many great creative people who contribute to this medium were once these kinds of people.

I think there is room for more than one kind of gamer. We get to a point where it just becomes a case of separating yourself from the unwanted and ugly. That's a bit of a cruel attitude to have.

i just feel the idea is to replace the ugly, stereotype that has BO, bad social cues, bad appearance with this magical group of players that had never before taken up a gamepad or are concentrating on just mobile titles cause those are more palatable.

that its going to take engrossing storylines where all main characters are create-a-character templates, dealing only with mature issues for mature gamers. and that this magical and untapped market is going to drop their phone games and start amassing around a computer/tv screen. non-mobile.

that they will drop their digestible 5 minute experience for a 200 hour skyrim adventure. the wii tried. the audience came. and they left just as fast. and then...MAYBE then, some game journalists will finally feel they talk to an audience that they can connect with.

Again, if your concern is nepotism, your first target should be Giant Bomb. And yet it's not. "Hrm."

i didnt know that, and will now read their reviews and such with much more scrutiny thank you for letting us know.
 
I noticed in the comments of the al Jazeera article that someone said according to FOIA requests seemingly no police reports were in fact made regarding the death threats stuff? Anyone know if this is true?
 
They're people who play games. They're the same people who watch movies and go on Facebook.

To be honest when I think of gamer I think of a disheveled person. A person that's lost and turned to gaming as false means of defining who they are. People are more than their hobby and it's unfair of people to lump the unfortunate number of people who choose to be something that's only part of who they are.

I think it's better to simply call them fans or players than gamers. Gamers is a stereotype. To break away from the stigma, "gamers," will have to do more than play games.

THis argument has been brought up over and over again in this thread.
Yes, there are people who use being a gamer as their sole identity and defining characteristic. Whatever, let those people grow and learn and become more than what they think they are at the moment. They still should not be vilified, instead they ought to be shown that there is more (and if they don't care to see then fuck it).
No, people in normal conversation do not usually refer to themselves as a gamer. That still does not mean that gamers aren't a thing, that they aren't a demographic, and that those that do fall into that demographic cannot be more than just a gamer (ie, a bookworm, cinephile, athelete, etc. in addition to).
The term has use beyond "Unhygienic virgin who uses games to substitute for actual social itneraction".
 
Of course. I think this is where a lot of the backlash towards SJWs is coming from. A portion of that community, no matter what you call them, are extremely antagonistic and are quick to finger point and name call for any perceived slight.

Yeah, Samantha Allen being harassed to the point of quitting Twitter and video games for a while for pointing out the hiring practice of GB as a symptom of the larger structural problem that MHWilliams as well just mentioned sure is "extremely antagonistic".

Christ, we even had so many posters piling on Allen in the Neogaf thread for speaking up about the issue that the mods had to close it because of the hateful bile.
 
Yeah, Samantha Allen being harassed to the point of quitting Twitter and video games for a while for pointing out the hiring practice of GB as a symptom of the larger structural problem that MHWilliams as well just mentioned sure is "extremely antagonistic".

Christ, we even had so many posters piling on Allen in the Neogaf thread for speaking up about the issue that the mods had to close it because of the hateful bile.

B-...But I never said that Samantha Allen was being antag- Nevermind.
 
Christ, we even had so many posters piling on Allen in the Neogaf thread for speaking up about the issue that the mods had to close it because of the hateful bile.

That just seems so weird. I wonder if there's some connection between her harassment and the harassment of certain other figures in gaming lately.


EDIT for RockTurtle: in addition, here are some of the folks the GB folks are extremely close to: Supergiant Games, Cards Against Humanity, Iron Galaxy, Harmonix, Double Fine
 
Giant Bomb hired 2 more straight white dudes to their staff. People got up in arms because Giant Bomb is nothing but straight white dudes. Que cries of racism and misogyny and etc. etc. etc.
People acted like assholes on twitter on both sides.

Shocking Alberto had a good tumblr post on that whole thing. Dan Ryckert was the best possible choice at that moment to replace Ryan Davis' position, but the criticisms on hiring another man or a white man are perfectly legitimate. Giant Bomb prides itself on wanting diversity and inclusiveness in the industry. The outcry was because they didn't do that, again they talked the talk but don't seem to want to walk the walk. At E3, diversity is severely lacking and you will see a bunch of white guys walking the showfloor from journalists to industry people. There are many who want to be hired but instead we see the same faces moving from one place to the next all the time so we're not getting many new talents or writers with different view points, thoughts or ideas.
 
Isn't this presumptuous to assume that these people even care? I think "gamer" gets used so little in casual conversation, that I think the only place it is even a thing with connotations is inside the subculture(the actual word). The actual word gamer is simply used to describe people who use the hobby, I dont think much thought goes into it beyond that. I'd say it is more projecting a perception more then an actual perception. I dont actually know too many people, who pay any heavy thought into the term, outside of people on forus and the games press.
)76.

There is a stigma. I do features about issues just outside the industry's bubble. It gives me a good idea of what people think of the industry as they begin to enter.

Most of the people I talk to believe there is a stigma. My articles are about widening the gaming culture and making it more about the person than what they do.

I'm technically a gamer but I also enjoy writing, watching movies, and taking the stairs than the escalator. I think the whole gamer thing is less about the stigma and more about widening the scope of what the industry is.
 
Shocking Alberto had a good tumblr post on that whole thing. Dan Ryckert was the best possible choice at that moment to replace Ryan Davis' position, but the criticisms on hiring another man or a white man are perfectly legitimate. Giant Bomb prides itself on wanting diversity and inclusiveness in the industry. The outcry was because they didn't do that, again they talked the talk but don't seem to want to walk the walk. At E3, diversity is severely lacking and you will see a bunch of white guys walking the showfloor from journalists to industry people. There are many who want to be hired but instead we see the same faces moving from one place to the next all the time so we're not getting many new talents or writers with different view points, thoughts or ideas.

Hey, I get it. I understand completely. But there was no semblance of nuance being used during that discussion. It was just mudslinging through and through on both sides.
And therein lies the problem, no one having any of these discussions is using the nuance that all these intertwining social and industry related issues need.
 
Shocking Alberto had a good tumblr post on that whole thing. Dan Ryckert was the best possible choice at that moment to replace Ryan Davis' position, but the criticisms on hiring another man or a white man are perfectly legitimate. Giant Bomb prides itself on wanting diversity and inclusiveness in the industry. The outcry was because they didn't do that, again they talked the talk but don't seem to want to walk the walk. At E3, diversity is severely lacking and you will see a bunch of white guys walking the showfloor from journalists to industry people. There are many who want to be hired but instead we see the same faces moving from one place to the next all the time so we're not getting many new talents or writers with different view points, thoughts or ideas.

Where has Giantbomb said they pride themselves on wanting diversity and inclusiveness in the industry? I have seen Patrick talking about this but he wasn't speaking for Giantbomb. All I have seen is that they don't want to alienate anyone but I don't think they would hold themselves as paragons of diversity.
 
That is not what I said, nor is it what Stephen said. Are you just trying to pick a fight or what?

How was I picking a fight?! You were the one that declared it's "bizarre to identify oneself by your hobby." Your words not mine (maybe not literally I'm working with an iPhone here quoting from memory so I may not replicate your post identitically). What is so bizarre about that? To identify yourself with the hobby that you love and feel most passionate about? I don't stroll down the street and when someone wants to know a key fact about me proclaim, "I'm a HUSBAND". Or "I'm a FATHER". I'm a gamer! Have been. Always will be. Honored to be. Whatever baggage or negative connotations you want to bring to the term, that's your issue. Not mine.
 
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