Poodlestrike
Banned
I think it was just "unsatisfied with quality."
Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
I think it was just "unsatisfied with quality."
Pretty spot-on. I love grindy games like Destiny, I love playing it and I like the idea of coming back for daily content and events (though they're pretty basic and dull in Destiny) but if a game does not have a memorable story or set of characters on top of it, it will feel like it lacks identity and I will forget about it eventually.
Even Diablo 2 had an interesting story and memorable characters despite the fact that most of us play it solely for the gameplay and loot. I didn't actually want Destiny to have a deep and exceptional story. I just wanted it to have one that made me feel more immersed or even attached to its universe. Instead we have basically nothing. Every faction has placeholdernames, over half of the lore exposition is skimming on the surface "There was an advanced AI, Rasputin who survived the collapse but the details have been lost in time" or "There's a story behind this [insert lore-point] but the details were lost a long time ago!"
They constantly tease you with something that turns out to be nothing. It's like if you went to someone and said, "Hey, I came across this really nice bar yesterday called-- actually, never mind!"
NeOak
Member
This reminds me of people defending FFXIV 1.0.
I like Destiny, but I can't deny the game feels barebones. Bungie fucked up.
Story is, without a doubt, the most important criteria by which I judge a game...
Pretty sure I'm not alone, but even if I was that's the not the point. Destiny was promoted as having a rich story component and it does not.
Allez Phill
Banned
I have the same feelings really. I loved it when it first came out and when the beta popped up, but I just started noticing inconsistencies in the game play.
MMaRsu
Member
I got a refund from Sony. Technical errors was my reason.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
How do you go about getting a digital refund and would I have a chance of it now? Or am I too late? I'm done with the game so if I can get some money back then all the better
Alec
Member
I'm with you. Dude just doesn't want to admit it...
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Same here. I said in this thread or the other thread about the dlc glitch that this game was primarily advertised on its deep story.
lifa-cobex
Member
ye wot?
FFXIV 1.0 started out incredibly poorly but it became really good by time it shut down. There's no doubt that something has happened to Destiny during development but I don't know the game is still decent.
Obvious that's not much of an excuse but the games campaign is really no different than 90% of the shooters out there and the multiplayer is still better than most of those game that have tacked on multiplayer.
It's just Destiny is simply that another average shooter. Is there potential? I think so but we will have to see I know I'm glad I didn't buy the expensive bundle and I'll pass on the DLC until the game reaches a level I realistically expected it to be.
MMaRsu
Member
Ever heard of sarcasm?
lifa-cobex
Member
Difficult to tell sometimes.
I think when we are using the word story for a game like destiny, perhaps what we mean is context. A game designed for loot and grinding should give the player a proper context in which they can understand what they are doing and why.
To use Diablo as an example, that game gives you the context that hell has invaded the realm and you are fighting that back. Destiny tries to give a similar context but fails utterly. You can see how Bungie could have used their own bag of tricks from the first Halo to quickly establish the necessary context. In Halo, you begin on a human ship that has just left reach and is being hunted down by the covenant. You meet the human players and immediately connect with their plight. You see how the covenant board the ship and start slaughtering everyone on board. That is when you as MC get a gun and take care of business.
Bungie could have easily done a short playable prologue where you are alive and witness the destruction of humanity at the hands of the traveler and then had you resurrected. Seeing the "Fall" would then give you the necessary motivation to take revenge and go after the darkness. Instead you pop in having seen nothing or made any 'human' connection whatsoever and told to shoot aliens.
To use Diablo as an example, that game gives you the context that hell has invaded the realm and you are fighting that back. Destiny tries to give a similar context but fails utterly. You can see how Bungie could have used their own bag of tricks from the first Halo to quickly establish the necessary context. In Halo, you begin on a human ship that has just left reach and is being hunted down by the covenant. You meet the human players and immediately connect with their plight. You see how the covenant board the ship and start slaughtering everyone on board. That is when you as MC get a gun and take care of business.
Bungie could have easily done a short playable prologue where you are alive and witness the destruction of humanity at the hands of the traveler and then had you resurrected. Seeing the "Fall" would then give you the necessary motivation to take revenge and go after the darkness. Instead you pop in having seen nothing or made any 'human' connection whatsoever and told to shoot aliens.
qa_engineer
Member
That's sarcasm right?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Joe Staten going back to MS really hurt them it seems. Hopefully this is something they learned from and makes the future content and games much, much better.
The sad thing is they have a fantastic base, the game is a ton of fun, but the story is so bad and disjointed that everything falls apart. Co-op is what is saving the game for me.
The sad thing is they have a fantastic base, the game is a ton of fun, but the story is so bad and disjointed that everything falls apart. Co-op is what is saving the game for me.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Ah man. That would be pretty awesome. Basically have the battle that ends with you dieing. That needs to be a flashback/tutorial in the next game.
PanicFreak
Member
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
The problem with this as an intro is that they would lose the ability to explain away all the plot points they didn't have time to develop properly
(screwed up during development)
That device of the player not knowing anything at all except what is in front of them is literally the only reason the rest of the story holds up in the slightest.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
I'm really crossing my fingers for a Destiny GOTY edition next year or something like that, with a restored story and access to most of the DLC/cut content. It would definitly make me buy it - even if I still do feel a discrepancy between the formulaic pew-pew gameplay and the grand ambitions you can feel behind the setting. I have a weak point against terms like 'epistomological computer virus' or 'weaponized ontology'.
A lot in that makes sense. The whole story was butchered to hell. Nothing is explained and what is talked about comes out of the blue and also isn't explained. It's as if you started watching a tv show midseason, leave, and come back two seasons later and can't understand what happened, the context of what is going on, and who the hell is the new character.
Destiny didn't explain who the guardians really were, what light really is, what light can do, who are the awoken, what are exos, how the fallen and vex can weaken the traveler with voodoo type crap, why the enemies from the dark don't get along, where they came from, how you can be revived for being dead hundreds or thousands of years, who the factions are, and much much more.
Destiny full release felt exactly like the beta with just more places to try out. It's like the extended beta with all the story missions cut out to leave enough for the full release game.
Destiny didn't explain who the guardians really were, what light really is, what light can do, who are the awoken, what are exos, how the fallen and vex can weaken the traveler with voodoo type crap, why the enemies from the dark don't get along, where they came from, how you can be revived for being dead hundreds or thousands of years, who the factions are, and much much more.
Destiny full release felt exactly like the beta with just more places to try out. It's like the extended beta with all the story missions cut out to leave enough for the full release game.
If 404 is telling the truth they are probably already done.
Jest Chillin
Member
Except then there would be no mystery, which was a key aspect of their intended storyline whether the AMA stuff is true or not. They wanted the actual events of humanities downfall to be something that you don't know as fact and only learn through stories that have been passed down for centuries. Then, you could discover these things as you play through the game. It wasn't a bad idea at all either. Just executed poorly.
You were borderline shill for Destiny before it came out. Keep your hype in check for the next game you champion.
Honestly, the story is such an utter mess that it's not worth speculating over. What they should have or even could have done, requires so much work at the state Destiny is in, that you would be completely rewriting the game.
Someone earlier in this thread was correct in that Destiny 2 should be a soft reboot.
Someone earlier in this thread was correct in that Destiny 2 should be a soft reboot.
GuitarAtomik
Member
True. That would make it a good opening for the next game though. Like it's something your Guardian begins to remember which maybe starts to reveal some kind of truth (perhaps the Stranger and her group have already had this revelation and that's why she takes an interest in you). Hire me Bungie.
Fattony12000
Member
hull yuss
Anton Sugar
Member
I don't even know that the game was designed for loot and grinding. I mean, loot is obviously a huge draw and part of the game--it is literally the key to the endgame, for better or worse.
But grinding is such a huge part of the game due, in part, to the lack of content. Level progression stops being natural after a certain point. There is nothing left to do in the game BUT grind, so we submit, because the allure of new loot (and therefore access to "new" content) is too big a draw.
This thread is about Destiny's story, but it could just as well be about the gutting of the game, IF 404Architect is to be believed. How many people would be complaining about the grind if the story had been properly implemented and there was much more to actually do?
Guess we'll find out in December. If it's nothing but the Destiny standard--shoot shit, then go somewhere and hold X, repeat--Bungie deserves any shit thrown their way.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
That was an interesting read. Don't know if it's true or not, much of what 404 says is simple interpolation and easy assumptions, not really too much detail. The original story he describes does sound more like what I would expect from the studio that made the original Halo though. The Destiny he describes sounds much more interesting.
Story isn't the most important part of a game to me, gameplay and content is. That said, I'll slog through a game with mediocre gameplay if the story is fantastic. Likewise, I'll spend dozens of hours with a game that has superb gameplay even if the story is shlock. In many ways though I prefer games where the player creates the story as they play along, more open ended games that lend themselves better to repeat playthroughs.
Now, if a game has both a disappointing story and is lacking in content or gameplay, well that;s when I lose interest fast. Destiny in it's current form fits into that category. I'd sooner just go back and play Halo, or buy the new Shadows of Mordor.
Story isn't the most important part of a game to me, gameplay and content is. That said, I'll slog through a game with mediocre gameplay if the story is fantastic. Likewise, I'll spend dozens of hours with a game that has superb gameplay even if the story is shlock. In many ways though I prefer games where the player creates the story as they play along, more open ended games that lend themselves better to repeat playthroughs.
Now, if a game has both a disappointing story and is lacking in content or gameplay, well that;s when I lose interest fast. Destiny in it's current form fits into that category. I'd sooner just go back and play Halo, or buy the new Shadows of Mordor.
I bought Destiny and am enjoying the mindless gameplay - however there are so many issues with the game it is disappointing and disheartening knowing what it should have been. I see so many apologists or people defending Bungie it is crazy.
I also bought an Xbox One and I like it. Is this what the PS4 owners feel like when they see me and my ilk post about our system of choice?
I also bought an Xbox One and I like it. Is this what the PS4 owners feel like when they see me and my ilk post about our system of choice?
Compsiox
Banned
I loved all 80 hours of Destiny until I read everything in this thread. Bungie really flunked.
staticneuron
Member
Just because the story would have been better doesn't mean the gameplay would have changed. It probably would have more unskippable cutscenes we would have to endure.
For now, I find the game fun. There is still a sense of progression endgame (join factions, do bounties raids and weekly's) and you don't have to rely on loot. Because of how the game is designed now, the story really is throw away because of the endgame elements. If there was more backstory you could get in game at your own leisure that would be nice but really doesn't make or break the game as it is.
What I would prefer is if they made a way for clan members to pull up a list of other clan members and request to form fireteams from in game or for you to manage clans flags ingame.
EDIT: I am curious about a villain beyond the black garden though.
Icyflamez96
Member
The aspect I was referring to made complete sense. I wasn't trying to argue anything else.
I think Destiny has put my hype in check for the rest of the year. After Dark Souls 2 and Watch_Dogs, this has made me just give up on getting too excited for a while.
I'll be back for Bloodborne
Not meant to be an endorsement believe me I'm not happy with the final product but I also didn't get caught up in the hype so my expectations were a bit lowered and honestly I wasn't as disappointed as many who hyped this game through the roof.
They have a lot of work to do and although I still found some enjoyment in the game I certainly won't be spending anymore money till it meets a satisfactory level for me.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Honestly, I think that that *is* a story. Story isn't just plot, it's the setting, the characters, all of the stuff beyond the gameplay that makes you want to participate. That's what Destiny failed to do. It's not about how complex or even complete the plot is.
I would argue that Destiny doesn't have any mystery now. It has pretensions to mystery, but I was never quite sold on the idea that it has much in the way of actual mysteries. Stuff like "I could tell you the stories, but I won't," or "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" is just obtuse, not mysterious, and a lot of the unanswered questions feel like they're unanswered because nobody (not even the writers) have come up with an answer yet. Sort of like later seasons of Lost.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, I'm realizing that. Bugs the hell out of me
So what *is* the preferred term for all the other stuff, characters and dialogue and setting and whatnot?
The only thing to legit piss me off is they cap the Marks you can earn in a week.
I was fine to ignore what the game wasn't so long as I could fully enjoy what it was. It had some good Crucible action! Now I earned 100 marks this week and I can't earn anymore! That's some free to play bullshit right there, waiting out days just to play and earn again.
Bungie you done fucked up now! Kiiiiaaaaaaaaaaiiiii!
I usually like a strong story but with Destiny I've found myself willing to settle for a good atmosphere. It's a game you play in the moment more than others.
I was fine to ignore what the game wasn't so long as I could fully enjoy what it was. It had some good Crucible action! Now I earned 100 marks this week and I can't earn anymore! That's some free to play bullshit right there, waiting out days just to play and earn again.
Bungie you done fucked up now! Kiiiiaaaaaaaaaaiiiii!
I usually like a strong story but with Destiny I've found myself willing to settle for a good atmosphere. It's a game you play in the moment more than others.
Anton Sugar
Member
But...you DO have to rely on loot.
After level 20, almost all endgame content (that is, strikes/missions/raids) is restricted based on your level.
How do you increase your level? By getting better loot.
How do you get better loot? Grind for reputation/marks (for factions) or grind strikes for the chance of finding said loot.
"Joining factions" is so barebones it's laughable. Faction leaders are just vendors that you need to gain favor with, forced to play certain game modes for currency (or, forced to grind for materials to buy said currency).
Bounties? Sure, that's something to do, but they're essentially grinds in disguise and the effort is just for better loot.
Weekly Raids are, again, the same missions over and over again but with modifiers.
I think the Light system is interesting, but it ultimately takes the agency of progression away from your character. A level 20 could luck out and get exotic gear after a Crucible match or a legendary engram and instantly bump to level 22, while a less fortunate but perhaps more skilled or more invested (in terms of time played) player could go days without getting the right drops or gear to progress, OR they have to spend days farming rep and marks.
Stabattack
Member
I requested a refund for the Expansion Pass yesterday, but Sony said they couldn't do it because it was part of the Digital Guardian edition package, so they put in a request for a refund for the entire thing. I guess we'll see how that goes....
ReplacementPelican
Member
I really hope that 404 dude is wrong. It's just that I'm enjoying Destiny, I think it's a fine game and I'm actually excited for whatever DLC they throw our way (sorry, 'expansions') but reading all this shit just makes me disappointed.
There are so many games which look great and fun but then get canned with little-to-no explanation as why to the would-be consumers of the game but if this is true then we had an amazing game, filled with content and covering more worlds than Destiny ended up doing, not to mention that it would also have a compelling narrative. Just, this time, instead of getting the game canned we just got a game which was wholly different from what could have been and an amazing game has turned into a good game.
Holding out hope that the expansions will be good, I don't know how many they have planned given that we're expected to drop £35 for 'expansion pass 1'.
Fucking Hell.
There are so many games which look great and fun but then get canned with little-to-no explanation as why to the would-be consumers of the game but if this is true then we had an amazing game, filled with content and covering more worlds than Destiny ended up doing, not to mention that it would also have a compelling narrative. Just, this time, instead of getting the game canned we just got a game which was wholly different from what could have been and an amazing game has turned into a good game.
Holding out hope that the expansions will be good, I don't know how many they have planned given that we're expected to drop £35 for 'expansion pass 1'.
Fucking Hell.
gamechanger87
Member
This story is just the beginning. Press Sneak Fuck is doing some work, and I'm sure others in the industry are aggressively digging. This type of investigative reporting is exactly what some of the Gaming Press out there would be dying to have the lead on in the wake of GamerGate.
We all know the story makes sense, and none of the plot points match. A lot was cut. A lot happened in 18 months and the story will come out it just depends on who gets the lead.
I have a strange feeling that Bungie has been having internal meetings and is discussing with Activision the correct course of action. They will either preempt the incoming story with a candid discussion around what happened and how they are going to handle the world going forward or they will have a large article in their back pocket ready to fire out the moment a story hits.
For Bungie which has always emphasized their community love, putting their head in the sand while the story leaks out is the worst option.
We all know the story makes sense, and none of the plot points match. A lot was cut. A lot happened in 18 months and the story will come out it just depends on who gets the lead.
I have a strange feeling that Bungie has been having internal meetings and is discussing with Activision the correct course of action. They will either preempt the incoming story with a candid discussion around what happened and how they are going to handle the world going forward or they will have a large article in their back pocket ready to fire out the moment a story hits.
For Bungie which has always emphasized their community love, putting their head in the sand while the story leaks out is the worst option.
They've already sold a ton, I really doubt they care that less than 5% of thier user base is upset about the lack of story.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Yeah but word of mouth spreads quickly and it already sounds like people are moving on from Destiny.