Hyperzephyrian
Banned
I think a lot of people anticipated this. Maybe it's premature to say the bubble's burst, but I expect that Kickstarter has passed its zenith. Whether it reaches nadir slowly or quickly is anybody's guess.
Kickstarter games "in decline"
- Thread starter GavinUK86
- Start date
I think a lot of people anticipated this. Maybe it's premature to say the bubble's burst, but I expect that Kickstarter has passed its zenith. Whether it reaches nadir slowly or quickly is anybody's guess.
I must admit, the excitement that drives me pledging for Kickstarter projects has waned considerably (not to mention a year of really terrible money income). But on the whole I have no regrets, as not one of my projects has been cancelled or seriously disappointed me. Sure there have been delays to Broken Age's second part, but I am willing to wait as the first part was really well done.
On top of that we've gotten some really really solid titles out of Kickstarter as a whole, some of which I didn't even pledge to in the first place. Shovel Knight stands proud as one of the very best indie games in a long time, let alone one of the best Kickstarter projects. I'm not going to forget that games like that are still going to happen, no matter how many Yogsventures and Clangs come and go. You just learn to trust some developers more than others, and only throw money at something if you have a really good feeling about it.
But it's hard to deny that with more and more pisstaking Kickstarters, the less enthusiasm there's going to be in turning to those green fields for promising projects. And that's before you even take into account the absolute dogshit no-name, no-concept and unrealistic projects, and scammers. Kickstarter's reaffirmation on creators being held to greater liability should a project fail would in an ideal world cull a lot of the dodgy stuff, but without proper enforcement it's unlikely to make much difference in the long run.
On top of that we've gotten some really really solid titles out of Kickstarter as a whole, some of which I didn't even pledge to in the first place. Shovel Knight stands proud as one of the very best indie games in a long time, let alone one of the best Kickstarter projects. I'm not going to forget that games like that are still going to happen, no matter how many Yogsventures and Clangs come and go. You just learn to trust some developers more than others, and only throw money at something if you have a really good feeling about it.
But it's hard to deny that with more and more pisstaking Kickstarters, the less enthusiasm there's going to be in turning to those green fields for promising projects. And that's before you even take into account the absolute dogshit no-name, no-concept and unrealistic projects, and scammers. Kickstarter's reaffirmation on creators being held to greater liability should a project fail would in an ideal world cull a lot of the dodgy stuff, but without proper enforcement it's unlikely to make much difference in the long run.
More_Badass
Member
Some quick stats from the Kickstarter 2014 thread (these are only game campaigns, and only the ones that were posted in the thread):
200 campaigns as of February
114 successful campaigns
64 failed
22 canceled
Of those 114 successful campaigns, 35 were funded 200% or more
10 are currently available either as finished games or on Early Acccess.
200 campaigns as of February
114 successful campaigns
64 failed
22 canceled
Of those 114 successful campaigns, 35 were funded 200% or more
10 are currently available either as finished games or on Early Acccess.
Didn't have to go digging? The fifth video features an obviously terrible game that barely managed 500 USD. Most of those videos are very much the type of stuff you'd have to be randomly browsing or looking for to find.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Igarashi can save this thing
Winterfang
Banned
Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I gave 100 bucks to Mighty No.9, I haven't cared about any other kickstarter.
I did give like 50 bucks to Skullgirls too, but that was Indiegogo.
I'm waiting for you, Igarashi.
I did give like 50 bucks to Skullgirls too, but that was Indiegogo.
I'm waiting for you, Igarashi.
More_Badass
Member
FTL? The Banner Saga? Shovel Knight? Divinity? Wasteland 2? Octodad? Risk of Rain?
And what the hell is indie standards? A good game is a good game
Heart of Black
Member
A lot of great smaller projects got off the ground this year, too - or rather, were funded, but asking for much less.
Darkest Dungeon
Starcrawlers
Choice Chamber
Treachery in Beatdown City (mine, yay)
Heartforth Alicia
Amplitude
Breach TD
GX3: Everyone Games
Pumpkin Online
Band Saga (just got funded)
Only a few of those were big numbers - the rest were $50K or less.
And of course no one went out with decades of experience, besides Harmonix.
Darkest Dungeon
Starcrawlers
Choice Chamber
Treachery in Beatdown City (mine, yay)
Heartforth Alicia
Amplitude
Breach TD
GX3: Everyone Games
Pumpkin Online
Band Saga (just got funded)
Only a few of those were big numbers - the rest were $50K or less.
And of course no one went out with decades of experience, besides Harmonix.
outunderthestars
Banned
Meh. The high profile games have left, but I still find incredible numbers of smaller indie projects that are worth supporting.
24 Killers, for example, only asked for $4,000 to finish his game.
Outpost-13 is only asking for $8500
And my personal favorite of the moment: Blossom Tales still needs some love.
I have back 86 KS projects thus far, and have really enjoyed all but one of them.
24 Killers, for example, only asked for $4,000 to finish his game.
Outpost-13 is only asking for $8500
And my personal favorite of the moment: Blossom Tales still needs some love.
I have back 86 KS projects thus far, and have really enjoyed all but one of them.
Most people who put the type of money that you're talking about into successful campaigns would indeed do that again, were a campaign they deemed worthwhile to come up. Generally speaking, the people that pledge amounts in the range are very happy with their expenditures because they know exactly what they're getting into and find appropriate value in the return. If you really want to equate it to absolute money value, though, you should at least use a more representative example. What if you pledged $1000 and creepers weren't called creepers but "jellies"? What if you had a three-of-a-kind statue signed by the entire Mojang team? Something like that, along with all the rewards leading up to that point, is an example much more analogous to a good campaign.
Kickstarter isn't an investment platform. It isn't a store, either. It's patronship. People have a hard time wrapping their heads around that nowadays, but it's by far the most accurate definition for the service.
Anyway, getting to the OP, there are a whole bunch of things in play here. Biggest by far is the fact that the large/historic/established developers that were in prime position for Kickstarter hopped in during 2013, not 2014. The analyst seems to assume that "crowdfunding culture" drives pledges, rather than quality projects. As if once you hit a certain number, dropping below that threshold signifies a business failure on Kickstarter's part rather than the reality of the projects coming to the table. Basically, spreadsheet-based analyst jibber-jabber.
That being said, 2013 was still on the tail end of the initial crowdfunding boom, and plenty of projects hit multiple times what they asked for or deserved. Relative to Kickstarter's current state, I'd say yeah, that's a negative for Kickstarter itself, but it's good for backers. Fewer undeserving successes means fewer failed projects and/or outright scams. It's a mixed bag for developers in that backer confidence in solid campaigns will rise over time, but breaking something like $500k isn't really a possibility anymore for anyone other than an established studio. At least good campaigns still aren't having any problems getting funded, although they are missing out on the luxury funding that used to be much more common.
The "suspicion" that Steam Early Access is damaging Kickstarter, like the two are in competition, is a joke though, and makes a good case for the argument that this analyst doesn't really have much of an idea of what he's talking about. The two services aren't intended for projects at the same point in development, let alone mutually exclusive. Early Access a huge reason why Kickstarter works so well with game development, in that it provides an easy way to distribute your work in progress. I really have no idea what he was getting at there.
Regardless, I do think that we'll be able to look back at 2014 and 2015's Kickstarter outputs and say that it created a greater quantity of higher quality games than third party AAA publishers during the same span. However things are trending for Kickstarter business-wise (which seems to be the thrust of this article), that's pretty damn good for all of us.
Leafhopper
Banned
Well by not digging I assume they just randomly found them is what I meant. They aren't anything big though yeah, I agree.
Of the ones I listed Divinity: Original Sin went to Kickstarter to further add features and enhance the game. The others I believe were fully created through Kickstarter. That being said, even for the ones who were partially created by Kickstarter, can we really say they would have been such great games without Kickstarter involvement?
Regardless, it's fairly safe to say that Kickstarter has led to some amazing games, and one of the most important benefits is that it allows for niche games to be made that otherwise would never pass the approval of publishers. There was a period of time not too long ago where the future appeared fairly dark. With the exception of a few developers, it was a whole lot of shallow, generic, and simplistic AAA titles one after another. For the larger publishers not much has changed. In a few short years, due to crowd-funding in general the outlook on upcoming RPGs is amazing. Space Sims have also gained a large boost in popularity, although I'm not sure whether that's necessarily due to Star Citizen. Adventure games, which were almost completely dead everywhere but Germany are now showing signs of life again. Even a few Japanese developers joined in, and I hope Might No. 9 and Unsung Story turn out great. Take a look at Pillars of Eternity for instance and compare it to Dragon Age: Inquisition. It's fairly easy to notice the difference in design philosophies despite both games being fantasy RPGs and RTwP. One happens to be my most anticipated game at the moment while the other looks like it might at least be better than its predecessor. Safe to say I'm really glad Kickstarter exists.
antisoulless
Banned
This is kind of off topic.. But I wish white gold and precursors developer deep shadows would KickStart ports and improvements of their two games.
A lot of potential in these two ones.
A lot of potential in these two ones.
bonesmccoy
Banned
There's just no spillover from the larger projects this year there were in 2012 and 2013. When a 'big' development studio uses the site to crowd-fund their project, I usually end up perusing the Games section for duration of the drive and backing other, smaller projects I otherwise would have completely ignored.
Well I prefer to kick start unknown developers.
Sparrowhawk
Member
I backed Hover and that's only because they got Hideki Naganuma on board. I thought that more and more people would be starting projects.
jacksepticeye
Member
People are very cautious of Kickstarter these days. Especially after some of the shadier titles were put up
voodoopanda
Member
I donated to several games, like Pillars of Eternity, Torment, Wasteland 2, Broken Age, Shadowrun Returns and Cosmic Star Heroine, but I haven't donated to anything in a year or so, mostly because no kickstarters have really interested me enough. So far every game I've donated to I've been happy with their progress or the finished game so I'm happy with kickstarter.
I backed two projects (board games): Glory to Rome - Black Box Edition (near failure and very late) and Fief - France 1429 (becoming fairly late). These two experiences, combined with stores of many failures at KickStarter, have soured my overlook on on their heavily flawed, nearly consequence free, system.
PixyJunket
Member
The bubble exploded once a Sony owned IP, developed by a company that gets regular work with the likes of Microsoft, EA and Disney, was funded via Kickstarter.
I mean, where does it go from there?
I mean, where does it go from there?
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Kickstarter seemed like a fad for a while there, which was kicked off by the huge amount of press coverage that Ouya and Oculus Rift got.
The fad is now over. The average mainstream user is no longer interested in backing projects, and has moved on.
The fad is now over. The average mainstream user is no longer interested in backing projects, and has moved on.
Because of Kickstarter I get to play:
Star Citizen (debatable)
Dreamfall: Chapters
Tesla Effect: A Tex Murphy Adventure
All 3 games are from my favorite series of all time and they would never of been made if it wasn't for crowd-funding. I also get to play Dead State and Broken Age. I can't hate Kickstarter because of that.
I must admit that I haven't backed anything for a while and probably won't after the more recent failures of quite a few games. I really wished I backed The Mandate and Elite: Dangerous when I had the chance though...
Star Citizen (debatable)
Dreamfall: Chapters
Tesla Effect: A Tex Murphy Adventure
All 3 games are from my favorite series of all time and they would never of been made if it wasn't for crowd-funding. I also get to play Dead State and Broken Age. I can't hate Kickstarter because of that.
I must admit that I haven't backed anything for a while and probably won't after the more recent failures of quite a few games. I really wished I backed The Mandate and Elite: Dangerous when I had the chance though...
Admiral Woofington
Member
I kickstarted Soul Saga. He posted a video of progress like 4 (?) months ago where he showed the combat. Nothing since. I have a feeling he has blown through the money. He was asking for too little for his ambition. Shame it probably won't ever come out.
I also kickstarted Dreamfall, Banner Saga and that Double Fine game of thrones-like game. 2 of those are out/have a release date. So not everything was bad.
I also kickstarted Dreamfall, Banner Saga and that Double Fine game of thrones-like game. 2 of those are out/have a release date. So not everything was bad.
hodayathink
Member
You mean the company that laid people off right around the time their Kickstarter ended? That one?
People back items based for the manufactured excitement and feeling that they are furthering an artistic endeavor.
Once you get your autographed picture and steam code, I'm guessing the excitement is gone. Your relationship with the game is the same as any other retail purchase you make. It's only with this one that the person selling you the item is allowing you to pay more than MSRP on the item because you want to get something made.
I think it's a combination of the novelty wearing out, the naturally slow process and delivery of game development, and the big changes that have been introduced to notable projects that have caused potential donors to see projects as less of a social movement to make new games, and more as a run-of-the-mill sale or pre-order.
Pre-orders work, but they don't make you feel the same way that something like KickStarter is purposefully designed to make you feel. That's part of the value that KS creates. That value diminishes after the newness and novelty wears off.
Once you get your autographed picture and steam code, I'm guessing the excitement is gone. Your relationship with the game is the same as any other retail purchase you make. It's only with this one that the person selling you the item is allowing you to pay more than MSRP on the item because you want to get something made.
I think it's a combination of the novelty wearing out, the naturally slow process and delivery of game development, and the big changes that have been introduced to notable projects that have caused potential donors to see projects as less of a social movement to make new games, and more as a run-of-the-mill sale or pre-order.
Pre-orders work, but they don't make you feel the same way that something like KickStarter is purposefully designed to make you feel. That's part of the value that KS creates. That value diminishes after the newness and novelty wears off.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
You realize they have to actually produce a game, right? Kickstarter literally exists so they can stop begging publishers to let people do the games they want to do.
WTF is going on in this thread, GAF? Kickstarter has created a ton of amazing games and the scams are few and far in between. If anything, Kickstarter games are in decline because the people who are actually capable of making games right now are either making them, have found other ways to get their game out (Steam Greenlight, the cheaper costs of Unity and UE4), or still trying to get their ideas in a state that's good enough to present to possible backers.
This has nothing to do with fans "smartening up".
PixyJunket
Member
Generally, the successes far outweigh the failures.
I've backed forty-one projects on Kickstarter, as of today (ten of them being video games).
Of those, I have twenty-something in hand and am happy with them.
One project (a board game expansion) is far behind schedule, but is in the final stages.
One project (a video game, natch), ended up being a scam by some Occupy Wall Street kid that used the money to buy a house for him and eight of his friends to live in.
Everything else seems to be in order, making progress, etc.
Edit: Rereading your post, I see yours were board games, which make up about half of my pledged projects.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I came close to kickstarting one game, Football Heroes, a game made in the vein on Tecmo Bowl. Originally it was supposed to come out for iOS and Android at the same time as a paid app in 2012
Fast forward since that original announcement. It has become an, as of now, iOS freemium only game with Android "in the works" for nearly two years. I don't own iOS, nor do I have any plans on doing so but for people that have invested money, I'd be sick to my stomach. To see a game come out and if you are in the same boat as me, waiting for them to release the product on your device, as they originally said that they were going to do. Dirty business practices.
Fast forward since that original announcement. It has become an, as of now, iOS freemium only game with Android "in the works" for nearly two years. I don't own iOS, nor do I have any plans on doing so but for people that have invested money, I'd be sick to my stomach. To see a game come out and if you are in the same boat as me, waiting for them to release the product on your device, as they originally said that they were going to do. Dirty business practices.
scytheavatar
Member
Don't forget Kickstaters face competition from Early Access too. Early Access has its share of massive problems but devs seem to increasingly prefer it to Kickstarters which take away a bigger cut of the funds raised.
To me its
Mediocre junk I wouldn't have normally bought is the norm.
Canceled+ scams far too common.
Great games exceedingly rare.
I'm no longer interested in crowd funding or buying a games beta. Fool me once.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
After too many debacles, I've been scared away from Kickstarting games. In fact I haven't donated to one ever. I'll throw money at anime (Little With Academia, Under the Dog, etc), art projects, comic books, short(er) films (Stripped), and even YouTube series. But games? Nope. I have zero faith in the creators accurately estimating their costs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tXYljBZ4Zq2B5Gq6ES-7Cew/htmlview
There's also a second tab that lists a few of the successful sub-$75k Kickstarter successes there, although it states that an unquantifiable "most" projects at that level fail, which in addition to being unspecific and without citation, doesn't seem true.
A great many of them haven't released yet given game development is a lengthy process. We've only really been seeing them regularly come out recently (as far as games that came about around the explosion time).
Eh, you're ignoring what could be the main point of Kickstarter: backing projects for the non-mainstream user. Mainstream users are already being satisfied by the blockbuster AAA titles, that is the audience those games are targeting. Kickstarter video game projects on the other hand largely target a very specific, perhaps "niche" audience that knows exactly what it wants. Often these are genres or sub-genres that have been deemed "non-profitable" or not worth their time by the large publishers. Examples include Isometric RPGs in the style of Infinity Engine games, turn-based RPGs, dungeon-crawlers, space simulators, point and click adventure games, strategy games, etc. I'm not sure what the "average mainstream user" has to do with Kickstarter's success.
*I'm mostly talking about video game related projects because I'm not too familiar with the other type of projects on Kickstarter, but I wouldn't be surprised if it follows a similar trend.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The inevitable has occurred. Lets all act surprised.
SwiftDeath
Member
I could see the why of it. All pretty much covered in the article
I do think there's more exposure of smaller projects than ever though
I do think there's more exposure of smaller projects than ever though
As the article mentions, the rise of Early Access on Steam has siphoned off a lot of the projects and money that would have went to kickstarter. I think that would have been a good section to highlight in the OP. Combine that with last year having a ton of big name projects and this year is seeing a lot of disposable income go to the new consoles, I think this is not surprising at all.
I don't think crowdfunding overall has dropped off much.
I don't think crowdfunding overall has dropped off much.