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[Infinite]

I like your post for your perspective, Cronox, and I can appreciate the weariness of always talking about stuff like this, but "pointlessness of being offended" at the beginning gets to me because we're talking about human beings, not just an Internet thing. There are many good reasons not to just let casual racism slide.

I appreciate his perspective too but ultimately he's creating a problem that's not there and one that has nothing to do with the Vice article. The articulates why and how this is a real problem.

 

[bomma_man]

Do we know who writes Big Ghost Chronicle?

 

[Cronox]

I appreciate his perspective too but ultimately he's creating a problem that's not there and one that has nothing to do with the Vice article. The articulates why and how this is a real problem.

I found the initial launching point of Thug Kitchen to be a poor one, is all. I totally get that thug can be used as a code word for black or racist terms for black. But at some point my reservoir of outrage runs dry, and I wish there was something else to debate.

In an older episode of Dan Carlin's Common Sense podcast, he mentioned that when working as a radio host there are certain go-to topics if you want people to call in with their opinions: gun control, abortion, and one other (gay marriage?). I feel like it's the same idea with internet debates and issues. The same subjects keep coming up, because people can't help clicking and commenting about them.

I'm having a meta-discussion here, I know. I think my time would have been better served by creating a topic I wanted to discuss than writing these posts. I'll do that next time.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Perhaps it is now, but the expression "thug life" has been around since at least the 1990s, and those colloquialisms have origins within the same hip-hop culture from which the term arose. I mean, maybe white people are reclaiming the word thug now but I really doubt it. The more obvious answer is that they decided to use words like "thug" and "cray", as well as phrases like "check yo'self" and "my jam", in order to present a parody of African American "street" culture.

Generally speaking the most obvious answer is usually the correct one.

If my mind saw pretty generic/mixed language and went to picking out specifically a black man as the most obvious answer for role of the thug, I'd be pretty disappointed in myself.

 

[kick51]

"Thug" makes me think of Tony Hawk Underground, thuglife, Bone Thuggs, or as a synonym for gangsta, G, etc. (all 90s stuff.) but I guess lame white people use it as a derogatory term.

 

[JDSN]

Do we know who writes Big Ghost Chronicle?

Edward Norton.

 

[mattiewheels]

My god, this is like an Onion article photo. Honestly can't see why people think that site is funny regardless of the connotations.

I can actually hear that lady crying her eyes out, because the bad people are being mean at her for being "racist", when she had no idea!

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Damn, always assumed that site was run by real-deal gangbangers. Kind of heartbroken like when I found out House Hunters was fake. Big surprise that white people were behind both of those disappointments.

Real deal gang bangers...I don't..lmao.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

If my mind saw pretty generic/mixed language and went to picking out specifically a black man as the most obvious answer for role of the thug, I'd be pretty disappointed in myself.

But it's not generic language at all, that's the point. White people may have appropriated a lot of slang which originated in African American communities, but that doesn't mean that they now own it.

 

[akira28]

Thug is code for black? Because someone called a black NFL player a thug whose record was completely clean? So that word has to be crossed off the vocabulary now because one dumbass made a dumbass statement?

Wow, Americans should watch out that they don't run out of words soon.

Don't see it any way. It's just recipes with a bunch of curses. If some think that automatically makes it "black", some apparently have some issues of their own.

heeheee

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

It didn't start with Sherman. It was just the clearest example of a black person who is undoubtedly innocent and in no way questionably criminal that was painted in a terrible light because it made white people afraid:
I implore you to click the articles. Many times they have words that are clickable links to stories that they are referencing.

http://gawker.com/how-richard-sherman-became-americas-newest-thug-1505228178

"Thug" in its modern usage, as Sherman was saying, has come to mean a black person—generally a black man—who has committed any perceived infraction a white person can think of. "Thug" might have once described people actually deserving of the term—Wall Street swindlers or cops who harass and kill citizens with impunity. But now it's mostly deployed to attack the character of black Americans, many of whom have done nothing wrong but be offensive to a white person's sensibilities.

Jameis Winston is a thug; Richard Sherman is a thug; Serena Williams is a "ghetto thug" for arguing with an umpire—John McEnroe was presumably less ghetto and thuggish when he regularly berated refs throughout his career; LeBron James is a thug just because this sports fan says so, because "I just don't like LeBron James or the way the NBA forces himself upon us, the fans and the media."

(One would be remiss to not also note that murdered black teenager Trayvon Martin's body had barely been in the ground before people were slandering him as a thug who got what was coming to him.)

In 2011 the New York Post's Phil Mushnick called Serena Williams classless for yelling at a chair umpire during the US Open. "This one wasn't as bad as 2009, when, sounding like a street thug, she cursed out and threatened a lineswoman," Mushnick continued.

In 2012, that same paper would write off Jimmy Connor's infamously caustic court demeanor as "bad-boy antics."

It's thus become acceptable for sports pundits, who rely on player trash talk and bad blood to build the empire narratives fans love, to nonetheless trot out the word "thug" to describe an abrasive black athlete; it's become common for fans to say the black players they don't like are stupid niggers. People will cheer if a black linebacker plows full speed into a black running back, knocking loose the ball and perhaps a joint or two. But people will call that same linebacker a detestable criminal if he says something mean about the running back after the game.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/ted-nugent-thugs_n_5923204.html

Musician Ted Nugent took to the Internet on Wednesday to decry what he called "Ferguson thugs" and "a plague of black violence," demanding that blacks stop supporting liberals because of what he saw as biased media coverage of the recent Ferguson police shooting.

http://gawker.com/white-florida-man-said-i-hate-thug-music-before-shoo-1519304881

Yesterday, Dunn's girlfriend Rhonda Rouer testified that Dunn told her "I hate that thug music" before she exited the vehicle to buy potato chips and wine. While Rouer was out of the car, Dunn and Davis began arguing over the volume of the music. One of Davis' friends, 18-year-old Tevin Thompson, said that he never heard Davis threaten Dunn. He also said that the cars were so close together that neither would have been able to exit their vehicles.

Soon, Dunn fired three shots into the rear passenger door, piercing Davis' liver and aorta. The next three bullets hit the front passenger door where Thompson was sitting, but deflected off the handle and hinge. The driver of the Durango then fled to an adjacent strip mall, where it became apparent that Davis was dying.

Mind you he killed an innocent teen because of "Thug music"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...er-that-police-see-all-black-people-as-thugs/
2

I can find more articles.

The point is just because you aren't aware or you do not use that word in that way does not mean it hasn't been happening both consciously and subconsciously. Rarely do Americans paint white people as thugs or even use that term for a white person. Yet America (and the media) consistently use that term to describe black people, and black victims. If you cannot understand or simply do not believe, maybe you should take a step back and read the comments section of any highly controversial matter that involves blacks. Most comments (aside from being racist) will also talk about how blacks are simply thugs.

It's not new. It's not imaginary. Hopefully, you're just now a little less ignorant.

 

[hiroshawn]

Is this real?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

My god, this is like an Onion article photo. Honestly can't see why people think that site is funny regardless of the connotations.

Immediately thought of these guys:

http://blackpeopleloveus.com/

 

[Wthermans]

Is this real?

Smart edit.

 

[Risible]

I know this is purely anecdotal, but as a white guy living in a predominantly Italian/Irish town (i.e., we have plenty of racists) I have never heard "thug" used as a codeword for black. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but this seems a bit forced to me.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Immediately thought of these guys:

http://blackpeopleloveus.com/

Sir? You've just made my weekend! Completely forgot..quite accurate.

 

[victreeb3l]

Do we know who writes Big Ghost Chronicle?

I dont wanna know. It will probably ruin everything. I'll just pretend it really is Ghostface.

 

[DominoKid]

Thug being a racist code word becomes more obvious when being around white football fans quite often(and football forums). Used to be reserved for particularly violent dirty players but at some point it seemed to just morph into a word for any black player they didn't like. I can't say exactly when I noticed, probably back when Troy Smith was a senior at OSU on the message boards I followed.

Sports forums are the way I picked up on it as well.

 

[Tom Penny]

Thug, Ghetto, Nasty, Grimy, motherfucker, bitch etc are all code words

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Thug, Ghetto, Nasty, Grimy, motherfucker, bitch etc are all code words

Thug and classless are the ones that the media are OK with using.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I know this is purely anecdotal, but as a white guy living in a predominantly Italian/Irish town (i.e., we have plenty of racists) I have never heard "thug" used as a codeword for black. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but this seems a bit forced to me.

I live in Ireland and I've heard it and know about it. Ignorance is not a defence.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I know this is purely anecdotal, but as a white guy living in a predominantly Italian/Irish town (i.e., we have plenty of racists) I have never heard "thug" used as a codeword for black. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but this seems a bit forced to me.

What do you make of how the word spiked in use on TV the day after the Sherman thing happened? If it's forced, I want to know what it means when this happens on TV.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-word-thug-was-uttered-625-times-on-tv-yesterday-1506098319

 

[Speevy]

Serena Williams is a "ghetto thug" for arguing with an umpire

Serena Williams didn't argue with an umpire. She threatened an umpire, and rightly lost the match she was playing.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Smart edit.

well now I'm curious

 

[freddy]

I'll continue to use the word for its original purpose of describing a Collingwood supporter.

 

[Wolf Dawgz]

Words

Thug in many contexts in the U.S.A refers to black males. When you aren't supposed to say racial slurs like "nigger" and "jigaboo", you opt to use more neutral terms like "thug". This transmigrates what people really mean into these terms. Thug just being a neutral word for violent criminal, but is used in more contexts of black males that make you uncomfortable, so you conclude them as thugs.

Example:
Group of black, male teenagers wearing UFC hats, sport Jerseys, and Michael Jordan shoes on a side walk by Mary's store. She feels uncomfortable because of her preconceived notions of black males,.

Mary overhears the boys' conversation.
Bboy 1: "Yo I was like with this gurl, and she was like twerking an shit!"
Bboy 2: " Dayuum son!"
Boy 1: " ya, and den she asked me to like take a toke of weed"
Boy 2: " Whadya say?"
BBoy 1: " I was like 'FUCK yeah I'll have some of dat shit!"
BBoy 3: " Sweet ass shit yo! Looks like x isn't coming dho! So let's get some drinks man!"

Mary goes to her coworker Becky and says
" I don't trust those n-(wait I can't say niggers) thugs. I'm calling the police Mary, watch the store"

Mary becomes hyper aware of each the boys actions, and where there hand are, and where their eyes are looking. One of the boys put his hand in his pocket. The boys get 5 cent candies and counted it being $3.05 worth. After the boys come up to the till, Mary looks at the boys' pocket and doesn't see anything. Mary takes the abg and begins counting every single candy. The boys miscounted and it was $3.15 cents worth. Mary quickly points out this discrepancy and calls them thieving thugs. The boys try to claim that they miscounted, but Mary doesn't buy it and the two parties argue. The police officer comes and sees that heated debate. Boy 1 pulls his hand out of his pocket, and since the police officer cannot be 100% sure that it isn't a weapon, he shoots him like a proud American hero and handcuffs the dead body.

The other two boys have to be escorted to the police station for questioning.



A group of white, male teenagers wearing UFC hate, a sport jersey, and DC shoes. You can hear them laughing and Mary is used of seeing such males, and can think of them as having a variety of possible non-violent personalities.

Wboy1: " Yeah dude, this chick was just like giving me a lap dance"
Wboy2: " Nice shit dude!"
Wboy2: Yeah, and then she takes and some weed and asks me to have a toke"
Wboy2: " shit, what did you say!?"
Wboy2: "I said fucking rights I'll have some of that shit!"
Wboy3: " that's fucking rad, but looks like x isn't coming. Let's get some drinks guys"

Mary goes to her coworker Becky and says:
" That boy is troubled, what would his mom say?"
Mary watches the boys in the store, but doesn't seem to notice that one of them shop lifted a candy bar. The boys pick out some 5 cent candies and when the boys go up to the till to pay, Mary trusts their words that there's $3.05 worth of candy and gives them their change and reciept.

The boys later get to go home and watch game of thrones and then browse the internet and claim that " Thug to me means people like Scarface!"

In the context of this website, there is nothing really neutrally thuggish about the way they cook. They seem to just to be appropriating a dialect of black culture. A dialect that people often make fun of, and deem as "unprofessional" and "illegitimate English". It is fusing the idea that the way black people speak is thuggish. When it is used by white people it is acceptable, so acceptable that you can make a living out of appropriating other people's cultures through a website.

 

[Slayven]

Words

Thug in many contexts in the U.S.A refers to black males. When you aren't supposed to say racial slurs like "nigger" and "jigaboo", you opt to use more neutral terms like "thug". This transmigrates what people really mean into these terms. Thug just being a neutral word for violent criminal, but is used in more contexts of black males that make you uncomfortable, so you conclude them as thugs.

Example:
Group of black, male teenagers wearing UFC hats, sport Jerseys, and Michael Jordan shoes on a side walk by Mary's store. She feels uncomfortable because of her preconceived notions of black males,.

Mary overhears the boys' conversation.
Bboy 1: "Yo I was like with this gurl, and she was like twerking an shit!"
Bboy 2: " Dayuum son!"
Boy 1: " ya, and den she asked me to like take a toke of weed"
Boy 2: " Whadya say?"
BBoy 1: " I was like 'FUCK yeah I'll have some of dat shit!"
BBoy 3: " Sweet ass shit yo! Looks like x isn't coming dho! So let's get some drinks man!"

Mary goes to her coworker Becky and says
" I don't trust those n-(wait I can't say niggers) thugs. I'm calling the police Mary, watch the store"

Mary becomes hyper aware of each the boys actions, and where there hand are, and where their eyes are looking. One of the boys put his hand in his pocket. The boys get 5 cent candies and counted it being $3.05 worth. After the boys come up to the till, Mary looks at the boys' pocket and doesn't see anything. Mary takes the abg and begins counting every single candy. The boys miscounted and it was $3.15 cents worth. Mary quickly points out this discrepancy and calls them thieving thugs. The boys try to claim that they miscounted, but Mary doesn't buy it and the two parties argue. The police officer comes and sees that heated debate. Boy 1 pulls his hand out of his pocket, and since the police officer cannot be 100% sure that it isn't a weapon, he shoots him like a proud American hero and handcuffs the dead body.

The other two boys have to be escorted to the police station for questioning.

Mary begins t

A group of white, male teenagers wearing UFC hate, a sport jersey, and DC shoes. You can hear them laughing and Mary is used of seeing such males, and can think of them as having a variety of possible non-violent personalities.

Wboy1: " Yeah dude, this chick was just like giving me a lap dance"
Wboy2: " Nice shit dude!"
Wboy2: Yeah, and then she takes and some weed and asks me to have a toke"
Wboy2: " shit, what did you say!?"
Wboy2: "I said fucking rights I'll have some of that shit!"
Wboy3: " that's fucking rad, but looks like x isn't coming. Let's get some drinks guys"

Mary goes to her coworker Becky and says:
" That boy is troubled, what would his mom say?"
Mary watches the boys in the store, but doesn't seem to notice that one of them shop lifted a candy bar. The boys pick out some 5 cent candies and when the boys go up to the till to pay, Mary trusts their words that there's $3.05 worth of candy and gives them their change and reciept.

The boys later get to go home and watch game of thrones and then browse the internet and claim that " Thug to me means people like Scarface!"

In the context of this website, there is nothing really neutrally thuggish about the way they cook. They seem to just to be appropriating a dialect of black culture. A dialect that people often make fun of, and deem as "unprofessional" and "illegitimate English". It is fusing the idea that the way black people speak is thuggish. When it is used by white people it is acceptable, so acceptable that you can make a living out of appropriating other people's cultures through a website.

You are truly the last Angelus, the greatest of them all.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Classism getting confused as rascisim yet again.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Classism getting confused as rascisim yet again.

How does this work in the context of Richard Sherman?

 

[Hagi]

Nasty, Grimy, motherfucker etc are all code words

What are these three code for?

 

[masud]

Some of you guys are a little too sensitive. No one is saying that thug no longer means what you thought it meant or that you're not allowed to say it. The discussion is about how some people are using thug as a code word for black people. The people that ran that site couldnt have a stereotypical black site called "black cookbook" so they use thug. People couldnt say that Sherman, by being loud and braggadocious, was being too "black" so he's a thug. But there are still tons of non racist ways to use the word thug, even to describe black people. I swear some of you are so defensive/paranoid about being accused of racism. Calm down...

 

[trifelife]

thug life

Wow!

 

[Anton Sugar]

My god, this is like an Onion article photo. Honestly can't see why people think that site is funny regardless of the connotations.

I can actually hear that lady crying her eyes out, because the bad people are being mean at her for being "racist", when she had no idea!

It seriously reminded me of this old internet classic: Black People Love Us!

 

[Infinite]

I found the initial launching point of Thug Kitchen to be a poor one, is all. I totally get that thug can be used as a code word for black or racist terms for black. But at some point my reservoir of outrage runs dry, and I wish there was something else to debate.

In an older episode of Dan Carlin's Common Sense podcast, he mentioned that when working as a radio host there are certain go-to topics if you want people to call in with their opinions: gun control, abortion, and one other (gay marriage?). I feel like it's the same idea with internet debates and issues. The same subjects keep coming up, because people can't help clicking and commenting about them.

I'm having a meta-discussion here, I know. I think my time would have been better served by creating a topic I wanted to discuss than writing these posts. I'll do that next time.

I wouldn't care about this if this was an isolated incident but it's not. It's exemplary of a larger trend and the VICE article tells you so with the very title even. You raise a valid concern but I don't think it's applicable to this thread and article. When you read through the thread more people are talking about coded language used in mainstream media as opposed to what is "Thug Kitchen".

 

[masud]

It seriously reminded me of this old internet classic: Black People Love Us!

Thats not fair. Black people love us is completly self aware and hilarious. The guys from that cooking site are probably the kinds of people they are making fun of.

Edit:may have misunderstood you

 

[hiroshawn]

Smart edit.

Thank you, I try.

 

[finowns]

From the article and the stuff posted from Thug Kitchen I don't see anything offensive.

I can see the humor in this type of language combined with something as banal as a cooking recipe.

And whoever talks like this in real life deserves to be mocked. It just seems so silly.

I do think 'thug' is targeted a lot more frequently towards African Americans.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Serena Williams didn't argue with an umpire. She threatened an umpire, and rightly lost the match she was playing.

And Jameis is a creepy rapist too. Not great examples in that article.

But yeah, thug and other words have been re-purposed as a word to put people down without as much social stigma. It's terrible stuff.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Thats not fair. Black people love us is completly self aware and hilarious. The guys from that cooking site are probably the kinds of people they are making fun of.

Edit:may have misunderstood you

Oh yeah, I'm totally aware that the site is self-aware (and brilliant). Thug Kitchen photo reminded me of a real life version of them.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Thug = Nigger in America. Can't speak for the rest of the English speaking world but it's clearly used as a racial slur here. Jesus christ at some of the reaching to defend this crap.

These yuppie racist make me sick to my stomach. Fuck them.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Immediately thought of these guys:

http://blackpeopleloveus.com/

A parody site making fun of white people trying to appropriate "blackness" that was started a decade ago?

Ahead of its time.

 

[uncredited male]

What are these three code for?

People who don't wash their hands after taking a shit.

 

[Aselith]

Today I learned what WASP means. Is this a new thing or am I hopelessly out of touch?

Spoiler

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

There is an 80's metal band called WASP if that tells you how old the term is.

And a lot of people here think thug just refers to tough guy/criminal. The fact that young teenagers in the millions using thug life as a joke perhaps does have a huge cultural impact, maybe more so than one sporting event that is only popular in the United States.

What is the joke of young white people using thug life as a joke though? Cause it seems to be, "I'm acting black LOL!" Am I wrong on that? Picture my air quotes around the black there please so people don't take me for a racist. The young person making the joke certainly doesn't have the air quotes around it though.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

But I use the word thug... I didn't realize it had any racist connotations. Just earlier today I posted in the Denver history textbook thread:

The only thing we learned that I ended up later learning was false was how Edison was such a great inventor. It was university that I learned he was a bit of a thug, or at least had thugs on his payroll.

What have I done?

 

[Aselith]

But I use the word thug... I didn't realize it had any racist connotations. Just earlier today I posted in the Denver history textbook thread:

What have I done?

It's one of the few words that have a racial connontation where the target becomes extremely important. Saying it about some old white dude is a-ok.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

But I use the word thug... I didn't realize it had any racist connotations. Just earlier today I posted in the Denver history textbook thread:

What have I done?

It's about intent. The word can be used with those connotations and the word can be used without those connotations. In this case, it was the former; so why keep hammering the point that it can be used without?

 

[Barkley's Justice]

would smang tho

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

It's one of the few words that have a racial connontation where the target becomes extremely important. Saying it about some old white dude is a-ok.

Cool, thanks.

It's about intent. The word can be used with those connotations and the word can be used without those connotations. In this case, it was the former; so why keep hammering the point that it can be used without?

I wasn't hammering. I thought I might have insulted people.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Cool, thanks.

I wasn't hammering. I thought I might have insulted people.

Sorry, you actually seem sincere. Others appear a bit disingenuous in their shock that words can be used with different connotations in hurtful ways.

 

[hodayathink]

Today I learned what WASP means. Is this a new thing or am I hopelessly out of touch?

Spoiler

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

As far as I know, you can find references to that acronym as far back as the 1950s, but as someone else stated, it was mainly used in the Northeast US (ie New York/Boston area).