Genius!
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Pachter Predicts: Xbox One outsold PS4 in September (dance, you puppets)
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
Genius!
travisbickle
Member
You didn't bold the "no competition"? Dreamcast
The Dreamcast was all sorts of wonder things.
Competition wasn't one of them though.
radyboysmith
Banned
i use this and thats why i prefer XBOX ONE ,
its not like they are light years ahead in graphics anyway .
I don't know. I don't think either of those series carry the same clout as they used to. It's not a knock against them or their quality so much as it is a realization that times and tastes change.
Take Mario, Zelda and Final Fantasy for example. A new entry in one of those series used to be an earth shattering event. But now? They're just more good games in a sea of other good games.
Would have all been very different if Sega has included a standard DVD player that could play movies. I know for me that added a lot of value to the PS2, and swayed me into buying one.
Rather Sony than Microsoft. You should look at Microsoft's long history of anti-competitive practices.
And Sony ruled the console market twice in a row with PS1 & PS2, in case you have forgotten.
People don't buy consoles because of more firmware updates. Don't be silly.
captainraincoat
Banned
Your not Australian I take it
Yea, I imagine it would have helped quite a bit. Unfortunately, much like the 360 and HD-DVD, the timing of its release prevented that from really being an option.
I for one haven't forgotten, and I also think the generation preceding it (SNES/Genesis), and the generation following it (Xbox 360/PS3/Wii) were better than that time period. I'd rather not return to it tbh. Each of the major console manufacturers have brought something unique to the industry with them, and in many cases those contributions later become standard functionality. I'd rather not have to wait for a single company to decide things are worth progressing, because nobody else has enough market impact for their features to reach a sizeable enough audience to matter.
I see what you're saying (though the SNES Vs. Genesis war was a whole lot better than the Wii Vs. Xbox 360 Vs. PS3 war when talking about games, etc). But in truth, it's Microsoft's fault that this is currently happening.
They heavily advertised Xbox One worldwide as an American-centric machine & treating non-Americans like second-class citizens (one example is having most features only working in the U.S.), & that is not what you do when trying to sell your console outside of the U.S. Not only that, but with Kinect 2.0 spying on people/NSA propaganda, the high price tag, & of course, the news about sabotaging used games & requiring people to be online at all times in order to play games.
Those are the very reasons why Microsoft lost a huge amount of trust within consumers & lost a lot of marketshare outside of the U.S., why Xbox One is on life support outside of U.S., UK, & Canada, & why they're just doing OK in the U.S., UK, & Canada regions at best. Microsoft worked so hard to build a lot of goodwill within consumers on Xbox 360 after Sony fumbled hard with PS3 with the "$599 U.S. Dollars" debacle, & then decided to throw it all away after one generation, knowing that Sony's very strong everywhere. By doing what they did, they let Sony regain the crown.
Glorified G
Member
Yes, outside of the insular of gaming forums, the real world doesn't have any emotional attachment to any of pieces these plastics and therefore doesn't ignore the vast majority of a consoles gaming library or care or even know who publishes what title.
The real world can be a scary and rational place.
TetraGenesis
Member
Hahahaha, incredible. Down to a science.
Yea, I think the SNES/Genesis was special because each had real strengths that were unique to each other. Both consoles provided completely different gaming experiences. I suppose we don't really need that anymore, as there's not really any type of game that any of the current machines would struggle to pull off at all.
I'm not trying to say that MS (or Nintendo's) current situations aren't their own doing. I'm in the UK, so I've never really had to deal with the whole "afterthought" treatment some territories got with the Xbox, but I do agree that they kinda made their bed with that one (and it extends beyond Xbox to many of their other consumer services). I do disagree with the used games stuff though (as a purely digital buyer currently), but I could go on forever about that, and this isn't the thread for it.
I think that if a company is serving the majority of consumers needs better, then they should be rewarded with a larger marketshare, however many people on forums such as this seem to actively want other companies to fail purely so their chosen company dominates. It's not so much that they see the opposition fuck up, and decide to take their business elsewhere, they're actually delighted to see to opposition fuck up... I've never been able to understand that. I'm mostly uninterested in Nintendo's offerings these days, but I wouldn't wish the Sega scenario on any Nintendo fan.
AngryNapkin
Banned
In my opinion the PS1 and PS2 era was the best era of gaming.
boredandlazy
Member
Yeah, I guess having about 2 games is better than 0.
FeenixRising
Banned
I do realize that was... Nvm
regenhuber88
Banned
Some people just don't want to know the truth.
399 + no kinect was the major selling point of the PS4.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Whose fault is that? Also, compeitition isn't inherently good or bad. It's just there. The second you put something out on the market it's up for competition to anyone who thinks they can do better. Both Xbox and Gamecube rose to accept the challenge. Sega made a great effort with Dreamcast. Saying that everyone else did terribly compared to it is not without competition.
If the market had embraced XBO and bought it at the same rate as PS4 it would have been a bad day for this so called "competition". If anything, competition needs to weed out XBO so that Microsoft can produce a true competitor if they want to stay in the race.
Also, there's two sites to determine console wars:
www.listwar.com
www.resolutiongate.com
Armed with these two sites you're prepared to combat any fanboy or fangirl out there.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yep that's why the sales of the XB1 rivaled PS4's as soon as they offered the same price in June. Wait....
RealityPales
Member
An additional 300K for multiplayer, on top of the 500K for multiplayer and 500K for single player already.
Bandobacon
Neo Member
The only way at all this makes any sense is if patcher is not including the destiny bundle preorders. Even then it seems like an odd prediction even just going by amazon and the small insights we have on like Bestbuy stocks and such. Tomorrow will be interesting for sure, but I don't think it will be a reverse Titan Fall month.
Xbone is the new WiiU confirmed.
regenhuber88
Banned
Didn't the X1 outsell PS4 in the UK in Sept. because of the FIFA bundle at 329 Pounds?
For one week I believe
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Woosh.
Well to be fair, making the corrections later isn't likely to produce the same result as pricing correctly out of the gate (Sega learnt that with the Saturn too). At some point the more popular console continues to sell better because it's more popular.
Same science probably applies to Xbox One games for lots of PS4 owners but they're clearly wrong due to facts.
Congrats, you copy and pasted the tactic used against the 360 last gen.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yes, offering a far better value proposition will likely yield positive results but they have yet to show any long-term changes thus far
You are describing the snowball effect which I fully agree is a very real and relevant aspect but MS offered a lower entry point 7 months into the launch of their console so while I agree that mindshare is a strong reason as to why MS didn't see the same results, I don't believe the snowball effect accounts for all of that mindshare problem.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
And here I thought that the PS3 had no games. But I guess that wasn't an established meme.
regenhuber88
Banned
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-outsells-ps4-in-uk-with-help-of-fifa-15/1100-6422635/
You are right, it was a week.
Still a nice little indicator that the sales gap won't be as big in the future.
Not true. PlayStation fans were kind enough to leave Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable to represent the entire 360 lineup.
Oh it definitely doesn't account for all of it. There's quite a few factors contributing to MS' mindshare issues, but I don't think 900p vs 1080p is amongst the largest.
Night Angel
Member
What, if MS releases a bundle with one of the most popular franchises in a region every week? :/
No doubt. During your console reveal, you only get one chance to make a good impression among consumers. One. You fuck that up, & it most likely sticks within most consumers throughout the rest of the generation. Doesn't matter if the companies later fixes the problems that they occurred during the reveal. Doesn't matter how many great E3's, etc. they get afterwards. We're talking about Average Joe's & Average Jane's that aren't exactly very big on gaming in general. Y'know, the ones who makes consoles successful & are the ones who buys products for their kids. If a product has a bad reputation, chances are there's going to be less people picking it up over the other product that is very hot & popular.
Look at PS3. While it caught up to Xbox 360 in worldwide sales thanks to Europe & Japan, did Sony fixing all of their mistakes last generation helped PS3 outsold 360 in America? Nope. And one of the reasons is because that the gap between 360 & PS3 in America was far too great to close.
lol Please. Pics of Talladega Nights and PS3s were rampant when the PS3 first came out. 'PS3 has no games" was shouted repeatedly throughout the gen. Don't know what dimension you were in at the time.
SwiftDeath
Member
Largest? No, of course not but I think the power issue [or whatever you'd like to call it] likely did have a realworld effect of some amount up until this point. Whether or not, the actual knowledge about what games perform better on PS4 and to what extent is known, I do think the general notion that one is more powerful has expanded somewhat outside of the core crowd and at least into what I'd term the softcore crowd [the types who buy COD, Madden, Fifa etc. every year] I feel the whole Ghosts issue last year was something of a catalyst for it.
Night Angel
Member
Yea, it definitely had some effect, although I don't think it translates much the the more casual consumer selecting it because it's more powerful. I can definitely imagine more core gamers selecting it initially for that reason (combined with price), and then the more casual friends of those gamers buying it too, but I don't think the conversion rate would have been anywhere near as high if there wasn't a price disparity also.
I've been saying for the longest time that MS should have sold the console with Kinect for $399, and just ate the incurred costs. Invoking a direct comparison, when you're behind in mindshare was never going to work, because you don't get anywhere by simply matching what's now a more desirable product price-wise. When the Kinectless SKU was announced, I knew things weren't going to go well. They marginalised the main thing that differentiated their console, and turned it into a weaker PS4 at the same price. It was really shortsighted imo.
Actually, you're not, because those sites intentionally leave out 1/3rd of the major competing brands. This is why I always hate these sites - especially listwar. Resolutiongate is fine, that's strictly a PS4 vs Xbox One thing because Wii U is obviously behind both - but listwar is a game comparison machine based on numbers, yet with Wii U ignored, it still allows wars over games because it doesn't include the entire spectrum. The fact it is actually IGNORING the console that currently resides (for now) in 2nd place makes it unreliable for a true "current gen" comparison.
SwiftDeath
Member
So yeah I actually do think the power probably become even more of an issue due to the price disparity because "being less powerful but more expensive" just doesn't sound good from a consumer perspective whether or not you understand what the power difference actually translates to.
And I do think that some element is snowball effect in that the core would go for a console and their more casual friends would go for the same console to play it on.
That would've been selling the console for below BOM most likely and the PS3 launch clearly showed that that way lies madness [albeit to an insane kutaragi level].
I still don't see the benefit MS would've garnered from pushing the kinect harder then they did. They needed software to justify the thing and have had 4 games [???] so far that really utilized it with D4 actually showing some promise from what I've heard? The kinect is super expensive to include with a console and I don't get why you would go that route. The technology is not good for fast on the fly controls and yet it's super compelling for numerous other industries. If MS wanted a camera for skype and/or a microphone array for voice commands they most certainly did not need the ability of skeletal tracking or multiple expensive cameras [I think there's two?]
As per what MS decided to do [offer a kinectless SKU] I don't really see what else they could've done that would put them in a better position once those first 6 months or so happened. Mandating a kinect for every unit sold and then not offer the mass market a compelling reason to be interested in that aspect is illogical thus you have to either make it compelling or remove it. I just don't see how they could've made it sufficiently compelling in a short time [say 6 months] as software development is a year and a half at least.
autoduelist
Member
Be honest, you just cribbed this from the Vita has no games manual, except you left out step 5: port beg any actual exclusives you want to play, ignoring the paradox this creates with rule 4.
And yet they spend $2.5 Billion acquiring Minecraft as well as paying Square-Enix a lot of money for a Tomb Raider exclusive.
It just boggles the mind.
Based on what we know about the XB1's manufacturing costs, doing that would've meant that MS would have lost at least $100 on each console sold, if not more.
While MS could probably afford to eat those losses, the entire point of the Xbox One was that it was supposed to be MS' grand Ace in the Hole that would win the Living Room for them and finally make a profit for a division that has done nothing but bleed money for the last 10+ years.
SaucyJack
Member
Albeit that wasnt even a rock solid story either. The article was sourced from "anonymous sources" speaking to MCV and may have only referred to sales at one retail chain.
ethomaz
Banned
Please give them one or two weeks per year
it is fair.Well, there was some software that made a compelling use of the Kinect (Kinect Sports Rivals, Dance Central Spotlight, D4, and from what I've played of the demo, Fantasia). The problem is that at the time the Kinectless SKU came about, there was only Kinect Sports Rivals available, and that should have been a) a launch game, and b) a pack in... definitely NOT a $60 retail game. It also should have been as fun as the previous Kinect Sports games.
The thing is, the Kinect v2 isn't bad hardware. Very few of the people that I show it to aren't genuinely impressed. Stuff like Xbox Fitness and Fantasia are differentiating software, and offer something that isn't easily provided by the competition. The problem here though, is that the main audience for these sorts of offerings are not the same audience buying a console at $499, or even $399. As the price eventually came down, and the list of Kinect content slowly grew, it would have been an attractive differentiator... maybe moreso than Call of Duty looking a little sharper. With it no longer packaged with each console though, studios like Harmonix aren't going to create more Kinect software after Fantasia, people aren't as likely to be exposed to Xbox Fitness as a result of someone they know having an Xbox (because now they'll probably have a Kinectless version). Microsoft is looking to have universal Win8 apps running on Xbox, but now don't have an input option that allows it to benefit from much of the software that would appear there. The Kinect is a pretty good input mechanism for emulating the touch gaming experience (Fruit Ninja for example). It could also have been useful for plenty of other games that would typically not suit a standard joypad setup. Something like Temple Run, or Subway Surfers would remain compelling played with a Kinect, whilst wouldn't be worth consideration with a joypad. None of this matter anymore though, because you can't reverse a decision like a Kinectless SKU.
I don't see Minecraft as being a $2.5b Xbox expense, rather than a Windows ecosystem one. Minecraft will also make a lot of that money back directly over time, so it's probably not all that expensive considering. Tomb Raider though.... I wonder how much that cost. Seems a bit pointless to me.
Yea, well it's not.... and the marketshare and mindshare they're losing probably balances a decent amount of that $100. They get that with 2 years of pretty much mandatory XBL subscription. If that person picks up a PS4 instead, not only are you no better off, but you're in a worse position come time for console 4... or if we're done with consoles at that point, then the Xbox service vs PlayStation Now. There's no point in waiting for Xbox to become Windows Phone, just to avoid losing cash. Once people are entrenched in a service, it'll be extremely difficult to move them later. Microsoft had the headstart on that in the gaming space, and they've done very little to maintain it.
Don't forget that PS4 had a huge bump in that week too, so we are talking about a couple of hundred systems here. One week isn't enough to make up for a gap that's already around 450k... According to Eurogamer Sony sold over a million PS4 at the begining of September since launch in UK and the sales ratio is around 1,5:1, which is around 40-50% higher than xbone. The gap is huge and Microsoft has to sell at a way higher rate just to make up for the 450k gap and PS4 has to stop selling basically, which wont happen. Same situation with PS3 and 360, just the other way around. It wont be closed.