It's not. The input lag of the Samsung is ~40ms as long as Game mode is on, basically same as the Sony I believe. Early reviews noted very high input lag (around 70ms) but it was lowered in a firmware update.
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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It's not. The input lag of the Samsung is ~40ms as long as Game mode is on, basically same as the Sony I believe. Early reviews noted very high input lag (around 70ms) but it was lowered in a firmware update.
User 479360
Banned
Samsung TVs are strange
My parents use the second TV I ever bought and first one I used (took back a 32 inch Aquos because it was too small). We've had it since about 2006, but it sat in its box for a while before being moved upstairs after I bought a better TV. (Really wanted 1080p)
Anyways, about two-three weeks ago it started showing dead pixels. About twenty of them in one area, most of which were in a line. I pressed a couple and they disappeared but the others weren't. And they stayed for quite a while. These were large ones that were noticeable from several feet away.
It bugged me, but it's an old TV and not mine so I forgot about it for the most part. However, I checked tonight and they're almost all gone except for two which are so tiny you can hardly see them now.
I guess they were just stuck for 3 weeks? Is that even possible?
It also showed pink and purple lines a year and a half ago when we turned it on once, but it hasn't since. My friend's repeatedly did that before he shelved it.
I don't think I'll ever buy Samsung. Too glitchy. Sharp is far better, from my experience.
My parents use the second TV I ever bought and first one I used (took back a 32 inch Aquos because it was too small). We've had it since about 2006, but it sat in its box for a while before being moved upstairs after I bought a better TV. (Really wanted 1080p)
Anyways, about two-three weeks ago it started showing dead pixels. About twenty of them in one area, most of which were in a line. I pressed a couple and they disappeared but the others weren't. And they stayed for quite a while. These were large ones that were noticeable from several feet away.
It bugged me, but it's an old TV and not mine so I forgot about it for the most part. However, I checked tonight and they're almost all gone except for two which are so tiny you can hardly see them now.
I guess they were just stuck for 3 weeks? Is that even possible?
It also showed pink and purple lines a year and a half ago when we turned it on once, but it hasn't since. My friend's repeatedly did that before he shelved it.
I don't think I'll ever buy Samsung. Too glitchy. Sharp is far better, from my experience.
markedbravado
Member
Samsung PN51F8500!!! I got it! Wth is going on with the Best Buy and Sears stock online/in store? I couldn't checkout. Had to dig and dig and check the Samsung authorized merchant list to confirm y purchase with a local retailer here in NY. So glad I got it at $997.97
I feel special having the last plasma line ever made. It is also one of the best. And most important of all, it is awesome for gaming. Ahhhh!
I feel special having the last plasma line ever made. It is also one of the best. And most important of all, it is awesome for gaming. Ahhhh!
markedbravado
Member
Just in case anyone on this thread has the Samsung PN8500 series:
Update: In Game mode the Samsung showed a relatively poor input lagmeasurement of 107.5ms. But there's a "trick" that allows it to achieve a much more respectable lag score of 53.1ms. To use it, select an HDMI input from the Input menu, go to the Options menu in the upper-right and rename the input "PC." Doing so allows it to achieve a better lag score.
- CNET
Update: In Game mode the Samsung showed a relatively poor input lagmeasurement of 107.5ms. But there's a "trick" that allows it to achieve a much more respectable lag score of 53.1ms. To use it, select an HDMI input from the Input menu, go to the Options menu in the upper-right and rename the input "PC." Doing so allows it to achieve a better lag score.
- CNET
mitchman
Gold Member
What input lag did the other sites report? I got the 65F9000 with the 2014 Evolution kit, making it pretty much exactly like that TV, and I have around 60ms with the input renamed to PC (don't use the game mode). It's acceptable for me.
My folks just got the one I picked up for them delivered, I can't wait to tweak the settings once I get back home for the holiday!
Really looking forward to comparing how it looks with my VT60.
Anyone know where I can find some good starting point calibration settings? Doesn't seem like there are any D-Nice numbers to go by.
I found the poor input lag listings on these sites: RTINGS, PC Mag, and DisplayLag.
However, the CNET review lists the lag as 40.5 in Game Mode, so maybe they reviewed a unit with an updated firmware like x3sphere mentioned above.
If the lag is virtually the same, I really just wonder whether I should go Sony or Samsung.
Filth
Member
They won't ship the tv to my address or any stores around my area. What bullshit.
Also worth noting that the Sony doesn't do 4:4:4/4K/60Hz when hooked up to an HDMI 2.0 graphics card.
It's possible this could be fixed in a firmware update, Samsung had the same issue but pushed out an update a few weeks ago that fixed it. Although, the specs for the Sony specifically mention it only supports YCbCr4:2:0 8bit at 4K/60Hz.
Also yeah the CNET review was published very recently, the RTINGS review is from May so that was definitely on the old firmware. PC Mag is flat out wrong when they say this so I wouldn't trust them:
"The 65HU8550's input lag was a high 141.8 milliseconds in our tests, and the screen lacks a specific Game mode to improve performance." No idea how they missed the Game mode...
Unknown Soldier
Member
I play PC games on my Sony 65X900A using Nvidia's 4K/60 with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling support and I can tell you that it looks just fine, even when I stand in front of the TV and stare at the fine pixel structure from a few inches away. When I'm actually sitting at a normal viewing distance from the TV playing the game or even looking at the Windows desktop, there is no obvious way to tell the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 because of the sheer pixel density of 4K.
The color gamut of Sony's TVs is superior to Samsung's. Sony uses wide-gamut 10-bit panels on all of their high-end sets and implements support for xvYCC ("x.v.Color") and when they are connected to Sony output devices like Blu-ray players and the X10 4K Ultra HD media player which support TRILUMINOS color they activate the wider gamut xvYCC encoding on certain Blu-rays which have it.
The color gamut of Sony's TVs is superior to Samsung's. Sony uses wide-gamut 10-bit panels on all of their high-end sets and implements support for xvYCC ("x.v.Color") and when they are connected to Sony output devices like Blu-ray players and the X10 4K Ultra HD media player which support TRILUMINOS color they activate the wider gamut xvYCC encoding on certain Blu-rays which have it.
I'm waiting for Dolby Vision to become common in consumer sets, and for OLED to become affordable.
Contrast and color gamut are the biggest areas for improvement in home picture quality. 4K resolution is pointless.
Contrast and color gamut are the biggest areas for improvement in home picture quality. 4K resolution is pointless.
I also wouldn't mind if they manage to perfect glasses-free 3D.
Forget it! What is so bad wearing lightweight passive glasses and enjoy Full HD 3D on your pointless 4K TV?
Unknown Soldier
Member
4K is not pointless and if you can't see the difference between 1080p and 4K you are literally blind.
The price of 4K TVs is coming down so fast that if you're in the market for a high end set it's really dumb to not just get a 4K set instead of a 1080p one, especially since the TV manufacturers are saving their best panels for their 4K sets now.
There's a 4K set on sale at Best Buy on Brack Friday for a stupidly low price, some Samsung model I believe.
And yeah, my 65X900A has passive 3D, so I have full Blu-ray 3D 1080p resolution to both eyes without annoying active shutter glasses and the corresponding brightness drop and other technical issues that active glasses introduce like crosstalk.
The price of 4K TVs is coming down so fast that if you're in the market for a high end set it's really dumb to not just get a 4K set instead of a 1080p one, especially since the TV manufacturers are saving their best panels for their 4K sets now.
There's a 4K set on sale at Best Buy on Brack Friday for a stupidly low price, some Samsung model I believe.
And yeah, my 65X900A has passive 3D, so I have full Blu-ray 3D 1080p resolution to both eyes without annoying active shutter glasses and the corresponding brightness drop and other technical issues that active glasses introduce like crosstalk.
theSlacker
Member
It can be considered pointless for the same reason that buying a 1080p tv could have been considered pointless if all you have is vhs. There isn't a ton of content for 4k yet even if it is growing.
At least it will eventually become worth while unlike 3d which will always be terrible.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Blu-ray 4K is coming Fall/Winter 2015. I don't think it's unreasonable to buy a 4K TV now to be ready for something that's coming next year if you happen to be in the market for a TV.
3D is awesome when used properly.
theSlacker
Member
Wait till next year when a new batch of TVs will be out and pricing will have changed in that case. Only in a situation like with plasma, where a technology is dying, do you really have to plan for your future use of a tech item. All other times the longer you are able to wait the better the stuff will be. 4k is new and doesn't have a ton of content yet so it's in no risk of just disappearing or becoming worse if you wait. If you are a console gamer then you can put it off for another 10 years I'm sure since consoles are struggling at proper 1080p still.
As for 3d I am just bitter that it messes with my eyes so I can't really enjoy it.
Last time I checked, there still seemed to be some uncertainty about whether current gear would be able to support HDCP 2.2 or whether 4K Blu-rays would support different color spaces. Personally I would delay a purchase, unless it was absolutely necessary.
What's with all the fake spoilers?
I have the exact same TV, love it. Passive glasses are perfect for 3D. Game mode works great and picture is awesome.
It will run at whatever resolution and framerate the game uses on the Wii U. So at most 1080p. Can't say about the upscaling, let's just say that it won't be ideal.
Sorry for the bump. Just wondering if anyone has experience with either (or has a similar 40 inch-ish screen in mind).
Hmm, so some 4K sony TVs don't do 4:4:4 chroma? Learn me, I thought 4:4:4 was a standard HDMI 2.2. My 700b passes 4:4:4.
None of them do 4:4:4 chroma at 4K/60Hz, not even the flagship 950B. They'll do 4:4:4 at 1080p, though.
While I agree the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 chroma is not very pronounced when gaming, it is definitely noticeable on the desktop. For example, this is what certain colors of text looked like on my Samsung before they released the chroma fix:
http://i.picpar.com/Pneb.jpg
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I have the Samsung 50 inch 4k TV and love it. I don't notice any input lag there either.
rokkerkory
Member
She's here!!! Super discount off at costco.
Upgrading from 7 year old 50in plasma.
Ready for superbowl and my X1
Upgrading from 7 year old 50in plasma.
Ready for superbowl and my X1
Alright, chances of next years 4k doing 4:4:4?
peppermints
Member
Really torn between a few sets:
Vizio E480i-B2
Sony KDL48W600B
Samsung PN51F5300AFXZA
Panasonic TC-50A400U
I'm leaning towards the Vizio just because it's such a good price. But I'm concerned the picture won't be nearly as good as the others.
Upgrading from a 42 inch 2010 Panasonic plasma. I'll miss it, but my wife's grandma needs a new TV and that's the perfect size for her so we're giving it to her.
What would you guys recommend?
Vizio E480i-B2
Sony KDL48W600B
Samsung PN51F5300AFXZA
Panasonic TC-50A400U
I'm leaning towards the Vizio just because it's such a good price. But I'm concerned the picture won't be nearly as good as the others.
Upgrading from a 42 inch 2010 Panasonic plasma. I'll miss it, but my wife's grandma needs a new TV and that's the perfect size for her so we're giving it to her.
What would you guys recommend?
peppermints
Member
Just out of curiosity, why do you think the Sony looks better? More accurate colors, deeper blacks?
Does the Sony have a power brick?
Will I be doing myself a disservice with it only being 60Hz? Primary usage will be gaming.
So since Plasmas are now getting difficult to find what's the definitive high quality, low input lag 1080p gaming TV? Consoles have locked into 1080p for the next 5-9 years so let's suppose 4k is irrelevant at this point.
The Wirecutter, citing CNet and others seems to think pretty highly of the Vizio M-Series. What do folks think? Does anyone have experience with these?
The Wirecutter, citing CNet and others seems to think pretty highly of the Vizio M-Series. What do folks think? Does anyone have experience with these?
So I bought this bad boy for my dedicated theater/gaming room
Sony HW40ES. It's SXRD (sony's name for LCOS) and measure 26.5 ms of lag. This is one badass little projector. I'm looking to pair it with a 106" screen. Can't wait to experience Dragon Age, Far Cry and Sunset Overdrive on this behemoth.
Sony HW40ES. It's SXRD (sony's name for LCOS) and measure 26.5 ms of lag. This is one badass little projector. I'm looking to pair it with a 106" screen. Can't wait to experience Dragon Age, Far Cry and Sunset Overdrive on this behemoth.
WheelHoss1
Member
4K is irrelevant at this point? LOL no. 4K blu-ray players are out next year, and Netflix, Amazon, and Directv are embracing 4K full-tilt (not to mention Samsung and Sony).
Jeff Stephen
Member
The 5300B is great under low light conditions and I wouldn't recommend it as a living room display.
WheelHoss1
Member
She's here!!! Super discount off at costco.
Upgrading from 7 year old 50in plasma.
Ready for superbowl and my X1
Great TV and great size. Once you go 60" for gaming, you'll never go back. Enjoy the 3D, too. It's breathtaking!
Most likely. HDMI chipsets that support HDCP 2.2 and 4K/4:4:4 are available to manufactures now, so the chances of them going into 2015 sets is very likely.
Previously supporting HDCP 2.2 meant you couldn't do 4:4:4 at 4K/60Hz, I think this is the issue with current Sony sets. The Samsung gets around it by only including one HDCP 2.2 port, the rest are non-HDCP 2.2.
I meant if you're primarily a console gamer. Consoles are maxing out at 1080p and aren't taking advantage of 4k this generation. Am I missing something?
You're right on the Netflix stuff etc.
peppermints
Member
Wait you would or wouldn't recommend it?
4k isn't irrelevant, albeit rather pointless, imho. Coming from an owner of a 65" 4k and a 51f8500, and someone who has been selling tv's for a few years. Firstly, it will be years before 4k is fully embraced. Sure, you can enjoy your 3 or 4 shows on netflix and a couple of movies (assuming you have 25mbps or greater internet), a hard drive loaded with 4k movies, or a few select on demand movies from directv that will only work with samsungs 8550 or 9000. Directv does not even broadcast 1080p (they do broadcast a compressed 720p or 1080i). It's been out for over 10 years. Lets say something magical happens and 4k is fully supported in a year. The size television you would need to tell the difference from 4k and 1080p is ridiculous. Not to mention a well made 1080p plasma demolishes any led based 4k television, picture quality wise (ignoring resolution).
edit: despite my opinion, i clearly think all televisions will move to 4k, though. Just as TV's moved from 720p to 1080p. It's progression. 4k looks vastly better in a store demo environment; they sell.
Terbinator
Member
So guys thinking of picking up a W705/6 32" coming into Christmas mainly/purely for gaming purposes but as I understand it, it's a fantastic TV for LCD.
Any reasons not to plump for a W7, or at a push, W8? 120Hz native would be nice too, I guess.
Coming from a Dell U2711H FWIW. TV will be used for XB1 and PC.
Any reasons not to plump for a W7, or at a push, W8? 120Hz native would be nice too, I guess.
Coming from a Dell U2711H FWIW. TV will be used for XB1 and PC.
so with that being said, does it make sense going for a great 1080p or paying a premium for 4k right now?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Blu-ray 4K is coming in late 2015. Unless you are only going to keep the TV for 1 year and replace it next year, the choice should be blindingly obvious.
Get the 4K set.
So I just want to give some impressions on my 4K experiences.
I bought a Sony 4k first run 55" on sale. Came with a PS4 which I sold for a few hundred, it was still a bit pricey and I PROBABLY should of waited another 6 months but I'm impatient and like shiny things.
Initially I was pretty disappointed, it took weeks to understand the calibration and basically learn to turn off every form of image processing and use the game mode. It's silly the level of distortion you get for turning on some effects. I was coming from Plasma so wanting to mimic some of the black light level intensity I enabled some high contrast/black level settings but they really messed with the image crazy ways.
It also took a few weeks to even just replace my HDMI cable and once nVidia released it "4k60hz via hdmi" drivers a few months ago I could really start using it to it's full potential. Mostly I've been replaying dark souls 1/2, both of which look fantastic in 4k. Even PS4 games like GTA V and COD AW look really incredible. I presume there's some level of AA going on these games because it looks so crisp.
I even ran AC:Unity @ 1080p because 4k was producing inconsistent frame rates (cause ubisoft) and 1440p was locked at 30hz for some reason (see previous reason), and was impressed even how good that looked in 1080p.
Everything about the image quality is pleasing. It won't ever give the deep blacks of plasma (which I had for about 4 years), but once I got past that I'm still really happy with the set. And walking past my my old tv which I gave to my folks, (50" 1080p sammy plasma), I was reminded that yes it has that crazy plasma contrast, but the clarity of the image is just much worse and my memories were very quickly proven inaccurate.
For those saying 4k sets aren't worth it, I'd say that statement is only true if you pay far too much for it like I did
I bought a Sony 4k first run 55" on sale. Came with a PS4 which I sold for a few hundred, it was still a bit pricey and I PROBABLY should of waited another 6 months but I'm impatient and like shiny things.
Initially I was pretty disappointed, it took weeks to understand the calibration and basically learn to turn off every form of image processing and use the game mode. It's silly the level of distortion you get for turning on some effects. I was coming from Plasma so wanting to mimic some of the black light level intensity I enabled some high contrast/black level settings but they really messed with the image crazy ways.
It also took a few weeks to even just replace my HDMI cable and once nVidia released it "4k60hz via hdmi" drivers a few months ago I could really start using it to it's full potential. Mostly I've been replaying dark souls 1/2, both of which look fantastic in 4k. Even PS4 games like GTA V and COD AW look really incredible. I presume there's some level of AA going on these games because it looks so crisp.
I even ran AC:Unity @ 1080p because 4k was producing inconsistent frame rates (cause ubisoft) and 1440p was locked at 30hz for some reason (see previous reason), and was impressed even how good that looked in 1080p.
Everything about the image quality is pleasing. It won't ever give the deep blacks of plasma (which I had for about 4 years), but once I got past that I'm still really happy with the set. And walking past my my old tv which I gave to my folks, (50" 1080p sammy plasma), I was reminded that yes it has that crazy plasma contrast, but the clarity of the image is just much worse and my memories were very quickly proven inaccurate.
For those saying 4k sets aren't worth it, I'd say that statement is only true if you pay far too much for it like I did
rokkerkory
Member
thank you! can't wait to set her up...
Kibbles
Member
What content is in 4k? Or is 4k Upscaled > 1080p native?
Anyone help me out? I'm in dire need of a new TV soon (ghosting issues makes Far Cry 4 unplayable) and was wondering if this is the best 32in TV I can end up getting.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I0S70C0/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I0S70C0/?tag=neogaf0e-20
If you're primarily a console gamer, and not a huge movie blu-ray nut I think it makes more sense to get the cheaper 1080p set.
By the time 4k is actually in wide use, those 4k TVs will be dramatically cheaper, so why not wait until then.
If you are looking for value, you are going to be better off buying a 1080p set today and taking the money you save and buying a 4K set once there is a reasonable amount of content available, which will probably take a few years.
Yeah, we may have 4K Blu-rays next Christmas, but it will be just like every other new format release. The players will be really expensive, the discs will be really expensive, and selection will be very limited.