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[Princess Carl]

You'd think that after the most recent case of police lying about a person reaching for a weapon and resisting (Tamir Rice) that people would stop immediately taking the police statement as gospel.

Shit, I'm sure everyone remembers the cops that followed the black man for a couple miles, pulled him over, and proceeded to beat the shit out of him. The entire time, the cops are shouting for the man to stop reaching for their guns. The kicker? They forgot that their dash cam was on, recording them beating the shit out a man not doing a thing. That tape almost never made into the public too. Police human error.

 

[Angelus Errare]

You'd think that after the most recent case of police lying about a person reaching for a weapon and resisting (Tamir Rice) that people would stop immediately taking the police statement as gospel.

You think police would do that? Just get on the internet and lie?!

 

[marrec]

I can't compare it to other things honestly, I just know when I have an attack, it's terrifying. I think I'm going to die. No matter how hard I try to get air in, I can't. It's like breathing through a straw, somebody has pinched. I have passed out from lack of air. Sure some air gets in there, but it's not enough and I know if I don't find a way to get more air, I could die. Usually I end up at the hospital and get help.

I guess that's why his death affects me so much, I can see that look in his face, that look of panic when air isn't getting through, I know that face well. To watch him literally beg for air, knowing it's hopeless as they won't let go, is almost more than I can take.

Most medical professionals will quickly poo poo the idea of "if you can talk then you can breathe" because shortness of breath can kill. People can still talk while having an asthma attack, for instance, or during the beginning stages of anaphylactic shock.

So the ridiculous notion of "if you can talk then you can breathe" should be thrown out because it only considers complete cutting off of airflow and not the almost as dangerous shortness of breath caused by asthma and an imperfect airflow restriction.

 

[Nabs]

There's an incredible amount of people outside my window right now. I think I'm going to head out for a bit.

 

[Kaladin]

Hey Anderson Cooper, you know how you say the video is hard to watch? How about you stop showing it on a loop.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Hey Anderson Cooper, you know how you say the video is hard to watch? How about you stop showing it on a loop.

You know he can't do that bro. He makes a living off the videos of other people losing their lives.

The media only cares about business. Not people.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Hey Anderson Cooper, you know how you say the video is hard to watch? How about you stop showing it on a loop.

You know he can't do that bro. He makes a living off the videos of other people losing their lives.

Out of sight out of mind.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Out of sight out of mind.

As much as I'd like to believe they do it out of altruism I'd be naive if I did. It's pretty clear they are in the business of making money from other people's misfortune.

They had no reason to show the boston bombing videos thousands of times over the course of a week but they did it anyways.

 

[Indicate]

wow this exchange between a protester and Eric Garner's stepfather

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/eric-garner-stepfather-speech_n_6272034.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

 

[Jobbs]

Hey Anderson Cooper, you know how you say the video is hard to watch? How about you stop showing it on a loop.

whenever they play the garner video, I have to look away, sometimes I mute it, it's really uncomfortable -- but I wouldn't want them to stop playing it. people should know the truth, whether it's uncomfortable or not, it's something that needs to be exposed. every news channel should play it on a loop.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

As much as I'd like to believe they do it out of altruism I'd be naive if I did. It's pretty clear they are in the business of making money from other people's misfortune.

They had no reason to show the boston bombing videos thousands of times over the course of a week but they did it anyways.

True. I don't think intentions matter much here though. People need to see this.

 

[Amir0x]

wow this exchange between a protester and Eric Garner's stepfather

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/eric-garner-stepfather-speech_n_6272034.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

i wonder how much play this'll get on the big news channels, you know after the coverage they gave to Ferguson's dad trying to "incite a riot"

 

[Blood Diamonds]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

 

[USC-fan]

Except for the fact that he was being repeatedly INFORMED that he was using deadly force. A plea of not being able to breathe is unambiguous evidence that he was indeed using deadly force.



1. This "burn the house down because you saw a cockroach" approach is completely flawed. The amount of force applied should definitely be equal to the circumstances.

2. The circumstances in this situation were completely different. A taser is completely different because it is, for all intents and purposes, instantaneous. If you're choking someone, you can stop before you kill the person. One you pull the trigger on a taser gun, it's over (if the electric charge indeed killed the person). As for the pepper spray, maybe you can decide how much to dispense, but unlike the choke hold, there's no way of knowing whether the amount dispensed is actually deadly.

The critical point in this choke hold issue is that he was TOLD that he was using deadly force, and he CONTINUED to do it until he killed him.

That is not the legal definition of deadly force.

Think they said he had in a choke hold for 15 secs. That wouldnt kill a normal person.

It wouldnt have killed him if they had proper medical support also. I dont know if his size cause a problem seeing he was having issues but he didnt die until after having a heart attack on way to hospital.

Seem like NYPD police are train in some kind of "selt belt" take down.

Really the bigger issue is lack of medical staff treated him right away.

Anyway I would really like the bar to be set higher on what crimes get you arrested instead of just a ticket. If the guy had just gotten a ticket i doubt we would even know about this. Police are just required to take you to jail for the smallest things.

Or--here's a crazy thought--maybe we could somehow punish the behavior we actually want to stop here, cops killing innocent people?

Nah, too far.

Not sure what case you are talking about here. In this case they were putting him under arrest. He sure wasnt an innocent person. While the crime is very minor they were required to arrest him on that charge. He was clearly resisting arrest.

He surely didnt deserve to die and i very doubtful the police officer was trying to kill him with a 15 sec choke hold. I am not sure what law they could pass that would make this a crime for the police officer with what happen in this case.

Really there was no reason he should have been arrested. These minor crimes should just be tickets. That is one of the major problems here. I never heard something like this happen over getting a ticket.

 

[GusBus]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

There are so many problems with this...least of all that your teacher should not inject his/her views on the material. Christ.

 

[Infinite]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

Would have walked out the class and reported that mother fucker.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Most medical professionals will quickly poo poo the idea of "if you can talk then you can breathe" because shortness of breath can kill. People can still talk while having an asthma attack, for instance, or during the beginning stages of anaphylactic shock.

So the ridiculous notion of "if you can talk then you can breathe" should be thrown out because it only considers complete cutting off of airflow and not the almost as dangerous shortness of breath caused by asthma and an imperfect airflow restriction.

Exactly. As someone who's suffered an asthma attack, people saying this seriously annoy me. It's not the ignorance, but the confidence in their ignorance.

 

[El Odio]

Would have walked out the class and reported that mother fucker.

Seriously. You'd think a class like that would be teach without bias.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

dehumanizing obesity

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

what a shitty teacher. "usual procedures" huh? looks like they shouldn't be teaching outdated material.

 

[TheExecutive]

That is not the legal definition of deadly force.

Think they said he had in a choke hold for 15 secs. That wouldnt kill a normal person.

It wouldnt have killed him if they had proper medical support also. I dont know if his size cause a problem seeing he was having issues but he didnt die until after having a heart attack on way to hospital.

Seem like NYPD police are train in some kind of "selt belt" take down.

Really the bigger issue is lack of medical staff treated him right away.

Anyway I would really like the bar to be set higher on what crimes get you arrested instead of just a ticket. If the guy had just gotten a ticket i doubt we would even know about this. Police are just required to take you to jail for the smallest things.


Not sure what case you are talking about here. In this case they were putting him under arrest. He sure wasnt an innocent person. While the crime is very minor they were required to arrest him on that charge. He was clearly resisting arrest.

He surely didnt deserve to die and i very doubtful the police officer was trying to kill him with a 15 sec choke hold. I am not sure what law they could pass that would make this a crime for the police officer with what happen in this case.

Really there was no reason he should have been arrested. These minor crimes should just be tickets. That is one of the major problems here. I never heard something like this happen over getting a ticket.

Need better conflict resolution training. Need better conflict resolution training. Need better conflict resolution training.

 

[Opto]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

I think your class needs to lose the latter word

 

[Cyan]

Not sure what case you are talking about here. In this case they were putting him under arrest. He sure wasnt an innocent person. While the crime is very minor they were required to arrest him on that charge. He was clearly resisting arrest.

He surely didnt deserve to die and i very doubtful the police officer was trying to kill him with a 15 sec choke hold. I am not sure what law they could pass that would make this a crime for the police officer with what happen in this case.

Really there was no reason he should have been arrested. These minor crimes should just be tickets. That is one of the major problems here. I never heard something like this happen over getting a ticket.

You're suggesting that to solve the problem of people being killed resisting arrest, we should make the penalties for resisting arrest extremely high, so that people stop doing it.

I'm saying forget the middleman, let's make the penalties for killing someone resisting arrest extremely high, so that people stop doing it.

 

[Nabs]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

Usual procedures? What bullshit.

 

[Dominican Power]

I felt sick in my Criminal Justice class today, the teacher played the video and said it was Eric's fault for being fat and that the cop was only doing the usual procedures. It was disgusting to see all the other students in the class eat that shit up. The kicker is that the teacher himself is obese, jesus christ.
Also called Eric a "leech on society"
fuck

What kind of shitty school are you attending?

 

[Dominican Power]

Rand Paul got on CNN and blamed it on cigarette taxes.

Using a tragedy for his own political purposes. What a pos.

 

[Mully]

The, "He was fat. It was his fault for being fat," reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. It's basically saying if you have a medical condition, cops shouldn't take that into consideration because fuck you, you broke the law.

Garner was selling cigarettes on the side. He wasn't hurting anyone. In fact, he was just trying to keep the peace during a fight.

 

[J10]

The, "He was fat. It was his fault for being fat," reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. It's basically saying if you have a medical condition, cops shouldn't take that into consideration because fuck you, you broke the law.

Garner was selling cigarettes on the side. He wasn't hurting anyone. In fact, he was just trying to keep the peace during a fight.

What they really mean is it's his fault for being black. But they can't say that out loud.

 

[Dai101]

I think your class needs to lose the latter word

I think his class needs a different teacher.

 

[TheExecutive]

The, "He was fat. It was his fault for being fat," reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. It's basically saying if you have a medical condition, cops shouldn't take that into consideration because fuck you, you broke the law.

Garner was selling cigarettes on the side. He wasn't hurting anyone. In fact, he was just trying to keep the peace during a fight.

Np Law against being obese.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

The, "He was fat. It was his fault for being fat," reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. It's basically saying if you have a medical condition, cops shouldn't take that into consideration because fuck you, you broke the law.

Garner was selling cigarettes on the side. He wasn't hurting anyone. In fact, he was just trying to keep the peace during a fight.

I have a hard time believing a healthy person would be safe under that kind of assault, anyways. People are just desperate to wave the issue away.

 

[Zee-Row]

This case makes me feel so powerless. It just makes me hate cops. I just feel for Eric's family , the murder is recorded clear as day and still no justice.

What can we as people do to fight this peacefully?

 

[TheExecutive]

I have a hard time believing a healthy person would be safe under that kind of assault, anyways. People are just desperate to wave the issue away.

If I got my ass kicked like that I would be fine... The argument is b.s. Though because he ended up not being fine

 

[Mully]

What they really mean is it's his fault for being black. But they can't say that out loud.

This is kinda true. I think this has more to do with NYPD and police culture at the time. Pantaleo was trained during the height of stop and frisk, and broken windows policing. It was championed as the reason for such a safe city. Pantaleo was likely given a promotion to the officer he was that day this summer because of how effective he was with stop and frisk.

Basically what I'm saying is that Garner's race definitely had something to do with his death, but most of it likely had to do with broken windows style policing and it being championed as the end all be all of policing a large city.

 

[USC-fan]

Need better conflict resolution training. Need better conflict resolution training. Need better conflict resolution training.

Again they still at the end have to arrest that person. If the main conflict is that im not sure how they can be trained to do it better.

You're suggesting that to solve the problem of people being killed resisting arrest, we should make the penalties for resisting arrest extremely high, so that people stop doing it.

I'm saying forget the middleman, let's make the penalties for killing someone resisting arrest extremely high, so that people stop doing it.

Why not both?

 

[Blood Diamonds]

What kind of shitty school are you attending?

I go to school in a border town, about 98% of the people here are Hispanic myself included. There's a city called Yuma 45 minutes away from here which has 3 actual high schools, not the shithole that we have here.

There are so many problems with this...least of all that your teacher should not inject his/her views on the material. Christ.

We don't learn anything, usually his class is just Obama bashing coupled with videos from Fox News. Then when the grading period is almost over we get 1 page of shitty notes and a 10 question test that we can cheat on. What's funny is that he constantly shows these videos of white people defying cops and tells the class that this is safe and that we can get away with this. Jesus.

 

[Socreges]

Has the Grand Jury explained their reasoning? Did they say it wasn't a chokehold? Or did they agree a chokehold was used but said it was justified?

 

[Cyan]

Why not both?

Because people resisting arrest isn't a major problem requiring draconian interventions?

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

The "resisting arrest" narrative is ludicrous. He knocks one cop's hands away lightly and puts his hands up and within 3 seconds he's being strangled. Also the idea that "resisting arrest" is only one thing and always justifies the same amount of force. There are people who genuinely believe that moving a cop's hands away while standing still is literally the same thing as and warrants the same force as deliberately attacking a cop.

 

[Trojita]

I think most nations live in denial of their past sins. Japan and China come to mind specifically. Exceptionalism is a thing here in America.

I think Germany is one of the only nations whose citizenry look its past right in the eye and look to do better as a consequence.

WW2 is hardly EVER mentioned in Germany and especially not the holocaust.

 

[USC-fan]

Because people resisting arrest isn't a major problem requiring draconian interventions?

But that was the major case of the use of force in this case.

That seem to be a lot easier to solve since you have a choice to resist or not. Right now its a very minor crime. The police doesn't have an option to arrest or not. I think they can find safer takedowns but still if a police officer get over powered he will reach for his gun. There is still never going to be a 100% safe take down.

Not sure how you could write a law like you are saying. The police job is to arrest someone. They have to take people down that do not want to go to jail.

 

[Mully]

So what's the objective opinion about Garner breaking up a fight? I feel like it hasn't been covered as much as it should have.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

What can we as people do to fight this peacefully?

Nothing.

And after all the b.s. I've been though with the local police, like being pulled over for having long hair, surrounded by 10 cop cars with guns drawn claiming "I used my brakes too much", to being ticketed for running a stop sign when there was no stop sign. I just don't care anymore. I hope the ones that are shitty just die, they are terrorists, criminals, scum, and I wouldn't offer a half cup of my own urine for one if he or she was on fire.

Hey New York City, stop charging $6.00 tax on a pack of smokes and none of this would have ever happened.

 

[evala]

Exactly. As someone who's suffered an asthma attack, people saying this seriously annoy me. It's not the ignorance, but the confidence in their ignorance.

Its the Dunning–Kruger effect.

 

[Cyan]

But that was the major case of the use of force in this case.

That seem to be a lot easier to solve since you have a choice to resist or not. The police doesn't have an option to arrest or not. I think they can find safer takedowns but still if a police officer get over power he will reach for his gun. There is still never going to be a 100% safe take down.

But the police do have a choice on the level of force used in their arrest. Make killing someone heavily punished and you damn well bet they'd be a lot more careful. (And again, the problem here isn't resisting arrest, it's the police using too much force and killing someone.)

But I don't think draconian levels of punishment are necessary. How about we start with taking these things to trial?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Hey New York City, stop charging $6.00 tax on a pack of smokes and none of this would have ever happened.

I doubt it. Something else would have happened instead.

The problem is with police using proper technique and restraint. It's also about facing the consequences if they do not do those things. The tax is just a convenient distraction.

 

[rjinaz]

So what's the objective opinion about Garner breaking up a fight? I feel like it hasn't been covered as much as it should have.

My understanding is, the police officers saw it happen, so they should have approached him in a calm manner knowing he was likely riled up, instead of surrounding him and jumping on his back to choke him down when he got upset.

I think a conversation would have went a looong way here. But the cops don't care about that. They have absolute authority with no fear of consequence and they know it, so who really cares? Take the man down, let the courts sort it out. That cop that did it looked like he really enjoyed it too. He's a tough guy!

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Just saw a good piece on Al Jazeera about Staten Island and sentiments there. It's the whitest burrow and also has the highest median income; not surprisingly people interviewed thought the cop was justified.

 

[arglebargle]

So what's the objective opinion about Garner breaking up a fight? I feel like it hasn't been covered as much as it should have.

this was mentioned early on and then apparently either forgotten about or the story changed. either way, id like a definitive answer. if you use search terms looking for that specifically they all mention he broke up a fight, but most of the general stories dont. i would also like to know if he was selling cigarettes at the time or if the cops hassled him because he was known to them from selling cigarettes in the past.

to be clear, i only want to know these things, because removing all possible excuses currently being made by those defending the cop could be useful in conversations.

we also seem to have stopped talking about the harassment campaign against his friend who filmed the video, ramsey orta.

Just saw a good piece on Al Jazeera about Staten Island and sentiments there. It's the whitest burrow and also has the highest median income; not surprisingly people interviewed thought the cop was justified.

i grew up there (i am white and have a respectable income, for what its worth) but left for college and only go back because my parents are still there. in addition to being whiter and more republican than the rest of the city, a ton of cops (and firefighters) live on the island. so the chances they were interviewing a cop, a relative of a cop, someone who is close friends with a cop, etc are high.

edit: also, borough (or boro i guess) not burrow. we arent gophers.

 

[PopeReal]

Just saw a good piece on Al Jazeera about Staten Island and sentiments there. It's the whitest burrow and also has the highest median income; not surprisingly people interviewed thought the cop was justified.

How can people think the cop was justified in killing someone?

It is beyond baffling.