Metal Gear Community Thread: Made you wait, didn't I?

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-Deimos said:
Learning the controls doesn't make them good. Games improve over time and that includes controls too. Is it really hard to understand that someone wouldn't like an old game's controls compared to more modern and intuitive control schemes?
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Er- yeah, kinda. Like, what ever happened to adapting to the challenges the game provides - whether it be the controls or anything else? I never had a problem learning the control scheme. No one I know has, either. Yet, a ton of people here do.
 
Love Deterrence said:
Er- yeah, kinda. Like, what ever happened to adapting to the challenges the game provides - whether it be the controls or anything else? I never had a problem learning the control scheme. No one I know has, either. Yet, a ton of people here do.
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Just because someone complains about something doesn't mean they won't adapt.
 
Love Deterrence said:
OK, does someone want to explain how Metal Gear games prior to MGS4 control poorly? I never understood that argument. It's baffling because I had never heard it before I started browsing NeoGAF. Like, why not learn a game's control scheme and adapt to it? Why does every game have to follow certain guidelines and stay within arbitrary parameters? MGS2, for example, has perfect controls; it's up to the player to master them. I genuinely do not understand how it controls poorly. "MGS4 controls better." Why? Because it controls like many other third-person shooters? I was perfectly fine with the controls in MGS4, but I will never get the hate for the controls in its predecessors.
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I just think these arguments aren't made within the context of when the games were released. I never had any issues with the controls, but I do prefer GZ over everything else. It's just perfection. At the the same time, I've been playing these games since '98, so going back to an older title still feels natural to me. Lack of a freecam in MGS2 is jarring at times, but way back when, you never even saw that as a possibility.

It's a shame... There are quite a few games that had unintuitive controls that I quite enjoyed after getting ahold of them. Like "Gundam: Zeonic Front". There was something rewarding about mastering a unique control scheme. Now it's almost like you can pretty much expect most control schemes to be universal (for the most part) depending on what genre you're playing.
 
@JunkerHQNet:
Kojima talking about how tutorials are difficult this time. In a linear game you would start the player in a small area and gradually expand what they can do, but you can't do that in open world stealth. Ideally the player can go wherever he wants and can discover things himself.

-Deimos said:
Just because someone complains about something doesn't mean they won't adapt.
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Judging by the MGS3 thread, just about every REmake thread, and the recent "Is it me or Demon's Souls gameplay is really poor?" thread, I think it's safe to say that plenty of people complain and don't even consider adapting.

Skullface said:
I just think these arguments aren't made within the context of when the games were released. I never had any issues with the controls, but I do prefer GZ over everything else. It's just perfection. At the the same time, I've been playing these games since '98, so going back to an older title still feels natural to me. Lack of a freecam in MGS2 is jarring at times, but way back when, you never even saw that as a possibility.

It's a shame... There are quite a few games that had unintuitive controls that I quite enjoyed after getting ahold of them. Like "Gundam: Zeonic Front". There was something rewarding about mastering a unique control scheme. Now it's almost like you can pretty much expect most control schemes to be universal (for the most part) depending on what genre you're playing.
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Now, you see. I could understand that. And I agree, I feel Ground Zeroes controls perfectly -- but I also don't think that means the games prior controlled poorly. I get what you're saying, and I do think that too many people have become accustomed to modern TPS controls to want to dedicate themselves to learning the controls of a classic MGS -- but that is a player problem and not a game problem, and the people stating otherwise should acknowledge that.
 
Love Deterrence said:
Er- yeah, kinda. Like, what ever happened to adapting to the challenges the game provides - whether it be the controls or anything else? I never had a problem learning the control scheme. No one I know has, either. Yet, a ton of people here do.
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It's called call of duty and the cinematic experience, and it linearized everything to the point of making everyone lazy.
 
Just completed mgs 3 for the first time:


Ks1kZ01h.jpg


Great game, I originally thought that missing the radar would be a problem, and it was for some time, but after the gameplay finally clicked for me (around the time you have to sneak into the first research area where you can disguise yourself) I started to play more calculated and patiently, and it was fine. Also, the bosses were way easier than in Mgs 2. I am now firmly into the "mgs 3 is the best in the series" camp. Well.... until the phantom pain comes out!
 
roytheone said:
Just completed mgs 3 for the first time:


Ks1kZ01h.jpg


Great game, I originally thought that missing the radar would be a problem, and it was for some time, but after the gameplay finally clicked for me (around the time you have to sneak into the first research area where you can disguise yourself) I started to play more calculated and patiently, and it was fine. Also, the bosses were way easier than in Mgs 2. I am now firmly into the "mgs 3 is the best in the series" camp. Well.... until the phantom pain comes out!
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It's the best one in the series man, it's so fucking good.

Honestly, when I first played MGS2 I was kind of disappointed with it and it's not a bad game but MGS3 is just too amazing for words.
 
Dawg said:
Good man.

Welcome to team #MGS3.

Don't listen to those MGS2 pretenders, they think it has some larger than life message or some other crap. They're delusional!

/s
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Say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens.
 
roytheone said:
Just completed mgs 3 for the first time:


Ks1kZ01h.jpg


Great game, I originally thought that missing the radar would be a problem, and it was for some time, but after the gameplay finally clicked for me (around the time you have to sneak into the first research area where you can disguise yourself) I started to play more calculated and patiently, and it was fine. Also, the bosses were way easier than in Mgs 2. I am now firmly into the "mgs 3 is the best in the series" camp. Well.... until the phantom pain comes out!
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Congrats on beating the best mgs game, don't let anybody else tell you otherwise.
 
Did my second go-through of Ground Zeroes. Man those patches are hard to find, I only have 4/9.

Wrote down some dialog lines that stuck out to me, these have been most likely beaten to death by now, but here goes:

Skullface to Chico
"Give my regards to your boss when you get home"
from this it is established that the
NUCLEAR check was a ruse,right?
Skullface to a troop
"This pirates crackdown a go"
this just sounded weird
One troop to another
"The boss and his crew, like phantoms, every last one of them"
Seems to significate the XOF and the men in there
Chicos tape #2
"She told me Just be quiet"
this is the basis of the Chico = Quiet thing?
Phantom Pain video, Snake says
"Why were here? The body I've lost, the comrades I've lost wont stop hurting."
This might just reference his arm, but I think it has a bit more significance.

Also, when you rescue Paz, she's
strung up, like an angel
Just wanted to point that out


Oh and the subtitle font is kinda weird. Reminds me of Resident Evil and The Evil Within.

I need to play something else
 
B6_Ju4AIQAMBe18.jpg


Pinewood said:
Phantom Pain video, Snake says
"Why were here? The body I've lost, the comrades I've lost wont stop hurting."
This might just reference his arm, but I think it has a bit more significance.
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Kaz says this, not Big Boss.
 
Well shit. I thought I was on to something.

I thought that after what happened, they had to graft Ishmael and Big Boss into one person, hence the same voice actor, as Ishmael is "The Phantom Pain".
 
Sn4ke_911 said:
Sad Snake :(

Also his horn looks bigger.

B6-_LXuCUAAIxhY.jpg
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I've been thinking about this since the E3 trailer, with the one shot of Snake yelling where the horn seems huge.

Perhaps the horn grows over time while the story progresses, and as Big Boss descends more and more into madness the horn grows bigger to portray the demon he is becoming.
 
SJRB said:
I've been thinking about this since the E3 trailer, with the one shot of Snake yelling where the horn seems huge.

Perhaps the horn grows over time while the story progresses, and as Big Boss descends more and more into madness the horn grows bigger to portray the demon he is becoming.
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What would be the logical explanation behind that?

And don't tell me nanomachines.
 
Dawg said:
What would be the logical explanation behind that?

And don't tell me nanomachines.
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The shrapnel represents Big Boss' humanity. His body is rejecting the shrapnel, and as the story progresses he loses more and more of his humanity while his body rejects the shrapnel and the horn grows bigger.

Once the shrapnel is completely removed from the body, Big Boss' transformation into the demon is complete.


Come at me, Kojima!
 
Screaming Meat said:
His body rejects it over time.
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If the brain was known for being able to push out foot long chunks of debris through a skull that would be a logical explanation, but it's not.

Maybe that little secondary lump is what's really there, and the larger one is imaginary? I don't know.
It could just be growing for reals, it contains bone according to Kojima. In fact I don't think he ever said it was shrapnel, does it really look like a bomb fragment to anyone?
 
Who is this Big Boss with a horn you are talking about? Surely you mean the guy that looks like Big Boss? You know, the one not even voiced by Big Boss' VA David Hayter.

C'mon people.
 
Graphics Horse said:
If the brain was known for being able to push out foot long chunks of debris through a skull that would be a logical explanation, but it's not.
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There's where we draw the line? We're fine with superpowers and bionic arms but we can't believe that a body can push out debris through the skull?
Seriously though it's a physical representation of the transformations Big Boss is going through.
 
I was just thinking how the video would be perfect if it only had the lines from Peace Walker where BB said "because I knew where my loyalties belonged" and his "talk with Kaz about The Boss", so I went back and watched those PW cutscenes...

Man, David Hayter sounded rough. Even compared to MGS4, it's like he dialed up the Batman voice up to 11.
 
Screaming Meat said:
The brain isn't, but I'm pretty sure the human body (in it's totality) essentially 'pushes' out foreign bodies where it can.
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Not through holes it's not designed to. You can lose skin deep things and piercings but things like bullets don't tend to pop out, maybe if there's a muscle in just the right place they might.

NCell said:
There's where we draw the line? We're fine with superpowers and bionic arms but we can't believe that a body can push out debris through the skull?
Seriously though it's a physical representation of the transformations Big Boss is going through.
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I'm just disagreeing that it's a logical explanation, I would be fine with a supernatural or sci fi or illusionary explanation.

And that's before we've asked if it's something that large and deep entered his skull, how did it get in there? And why does it look more pointy when it's longer?
 
Nightengale said:
I was just thinking how the video would be perfect if it only had the lines from Peace Walker where BB said "because I knew where my loyalties belonged" and his "talk with Kaz about The Boss", so I went back and watched those PW cutscenes...

Man, David Hayter sounded rough. Even compared to MGS4, it's like he dialed up the Batman voice up to 11.
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I agree. People hated him in MGS4 too but i completely disagree, he sounds fine... i wanna see the haters do an old man voice lol.

but in PW Hayter was absolutely terrible. His worst performance in any MGS game. I don't know what the hell went wrong here, if it was the voice director's fault or whatever but that was just trying waaaay too hard to sounds badass and rough.

I'm glad he doesn't voice Big Boss in MGSV. I couldn't take something like his PW performance again. Sutherland does a fantastic job so far, really love what i've heard of him. He just nailes very tragic lines like "*lip smack* When the time comes, i'll pull the trigger" or "I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea...I will always be with you" he just fucking nailed those lines and i can't wait to hear more from him in TPP.

Hayter is a great Solid Snake and he will be awesome in MGSV
leuhkikcskn4ayu7m.gif


Death Metalist said:
Good video but for me it will always be Solid Snake's speech at the end of MGS2 that makes this series transcend the title "video game". It's probably the most underrated piece of MGS2 but it's my favorite.
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Yup, fantastic scene!
 
The only line from Sutherland that I didn't quite 'feel' it, was the "Kept you waiting, huh?" ( no particular reason... just felt off to me, personally )

However, every other scene where he's had a speaking moment, he's really settled into the Big Boss persona. Just the right amount of coarseness in his voice, and he sells the moments of 'bottled up emotions' (can't find the right word for it) just perfectly.
 
Nightengale said:
The only line from Sutherland that I didn't quite 'feel' it, was the "Kept you waiting, huh?" ( no particular reason... just felt off to me, personally )

However, every other scene where he's had a speaking moment, he's really settled into the Big Boss persona. Just the right amount of coarseness in his voice, and he sells the moments of 'bottled up emotions' (can't find the right word for it) just perfectly.
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I have no problem with his "Kept you waiting, huh?", i don't know why so many people don't like it but hey different strokes.

Agreed, can you imagine Hayter saying those lines? good god no.

Let him voice a younger Solid Snake and he will sound just fine.
 
Sn4ke_911 said:
I have no problem with his "Kept you waiting, huh?", i don't know why so many people don't like it but hey different strokes.
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Hmm, rethinking it, I think it's the rhythm of the line's delivery for me. As an iconic MGS statement, the way it's been spoken by Hayter and Otsuka hasn't changed in forever. The voice itself was fine, but I think the rhythm felt a bit different for me.

Sn4ke_911 said:
Agreed, can you imagine Hayter saying those lines? good god no.
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lol no.
 
Graphics Horse said:
Not through holes it's not designed to. You can lose skin deep things and piercings but things like bullets don't tend to pop out, maybe if there's a muscle in just the right place they might.
Click to expand...

if it was already sticking out of his head, it's somewhat plausible it could be gradually pushed out by bone and tissue resorption and deposition that's taking place around the object. a bionic arm alone is waaaay crazier
 
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