Super Bowl XLIX |OT| The Butler Did It

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PeregrinSe7en said:
3rd best

1) Montana 4-0
2) Bradshaw 4-0
3) Brady 4-2

the above 2 never choked in the big game
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Montana never played a #1 defense (Cincinnati was 17th?).
Montana had Jerry Rice for 2 SB wins.
Montana only made it to 4 Super Bowls.

1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Who cares, not nearly as good as #1 or #2
 
Ambient80 said:
The others never got the opportunity to "choke" in a big game again. Six appearances is better than just four wins.

Such a dumb argument that because he got second place twice that he automatically can't be the best. He got there two more times than the other two guys, regardless of if he won or not. Not to mention Brady himself didn't choke at all, his defense did.
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Yup, it's like trying to say 4 gold medals and 2 silvers is worse than just 4 golds only. 6 SB appearances is better than 4.
 
OK I am a Joe Montana fan but I have to admit that Brady is the most successful QB ever. And LMAO at people mentioning Terry Bradshaw.
 
PeregrinSe7en said:
those 2 losses tarnished his legacy. he was better off not appearing in those games
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Lol, sorry dude that's just wrong. He was first place four years, second place two years. The other two guys did NOT do that. Even Montana said that if he won this weekend he should be considered the greatest.
 
PeregrinSe7en said:
no need for name calling
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Sorry, but in what other sport are you marked down because you appeared in the final game, match, race, what ever of the season and didn't win when compared to others who have the same amount of wins AND appeared in less games?

I mean if we're gonna go down this route then if Eli somehow pulls another SB out of his ass this year he is going to be just a notch under Brady because he's 3-0, even though getting into the playoffs with his regular season performance is a crapshoot at best?
 
Sothpaw said:
I will never forget how great it felt to see Sherman's reaction to the loss. So great to see such a poor sport take one on the chin.
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I didn't even know the history of this. What has he done before to make him a poor sport?
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
Sorry, but in what other sport are you marked down because you appeared in the final game, match, race, what ever of the season and didn't win when compared to others who have the same amount of wins AND appeared in less games?
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One thing Montana has over Brady is he never threw a pick in a SB game. That said, appearing in 6 SB's vs 4 is obviously more impressive.
 
140.85 said:
I didn't even know the history of this. What has he done before to make him a poor sport?
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He consistently talks trash about other players or teams. Sometimes it is provoked, sometimes not. Normally he at least backs his talk up, but not this time. He was on the sideline bragging about the score before the game was over.
 
140.85 said:
I didn't even know the history of this. What has he done before to make him a poor sport?
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Man is bipolar. Sometimes he is a good sport about things. Goes to congratulate others, things like that. Other time's he's a giant ass about it and goes and screams "U mad bro?" in an opposing players face.
 
ParityBit said:
What do you guys think of the crazy theory that Carroll ran a passing play so Wilson had a chance to be MVP and not Lynch?
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Not at all. If you think about it Pete was kinda right, they didn't have enough time for three run plays.

The issue is that's a BS excuse, NE didn't stop the clock with a TO, and that brought the whole offense into a disorder, which has them kill the clock down all the way to 25 seconds forcing at least 1 of the 3 plays into a passing down.

If NE called that TO with a minute left, Pete would have ran it 3 times. Then again if Pats called that TO with a minute left NE would have let them score.

Then again NE was probably going to let them score if it was a run and just save the TO to stop the clock incase they bombed it down the field to get a FG to tie.

The big problem was THAT play call. If you're going to pass it don't fucking slam it in the middle of the box where anything can happen with a boble or a deflection, pass it outside so you can easily chuck it over someones head and just take the incomplete instead of letting god decide where a ball goes if it slams off an arm with 5 defensive players eying it.
 
DrForester said:
Needs to be fired if that was his thinking. I can't imagine any coach being that stupid though.
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Yeah, but a day ago you'd also say you couldn't imagine any coach being stupid enough to call a pass on 2nd and 1 with the game on the line. So really, we're in uncharted regions of stupidity here.
 
Montana may have been unstoppable in Super Bowls, but he also played in an era where the AFC was a joke conference. All of his championships came during a run of conference dominance where the NFC won 15 of 16 Super Bowls. From the early 80s to the late 90s, Whoever won the NFC Championship was almost a lock to win the SB.

Brady hasn't been as fortunate. He's had to play against the likes of the Greatest Show on Turf Rams and the Legion of Boom.
 
Delta Assault said:
Yeah, but a day ago you'd also say you couldn't imagine any coach being stupid enough to call a pass on 2nd and 1 with the game on the line. So really, we're in uncharted regions of stupidity here.
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I don't think a pass play is such an awful idea in that scenario, they could've caught the Pats off guard. Looking at the play again, if Wilson threw the ball just the slightest bit sooner there's a good chance we're talking about that play as what won the game for the Seahawks.
 
ParityBit said:
What do you guys think of the crazy theory that Carroll ran a passing play so Wilson had a chance to be MVP and not Lynch?
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There's a thread on reddit:

What people don't seem to understand this is that it wasn't actually about the time on the clock, but it was about the personnel package.

The Seahawks were in their two minute drive package. [Note: this part is inaccurate, per Pete Carroll as quoted below. Rather, according to Coach Carroll, they put three receivers out to spread the field to make the run easier, assuming that the Patriots would have to defend the catch. Coach Belichick called his bluff by sending out the run defense unit anyway, essentially daring the Seahawks to pass.] They had three receivers on the field. It's not the best package for the goal line.

They assumed the Pats were going to call a timeout to stop the clock, but Bill liked his personnel matchup better than calling the timeout and letting Seattle bring in its heavy lineup. [Furthermore, according to this article quoting Matt Patricia, the Patriots actually wanted this matchup on the field. They were baiting the pass.]

Seattle didn't want to use their timeout to change the personnel, because they though they could do one pass play, stop the clock, and change out the personnel...and save the timeout for after the Lynch run on 3rd down.

It all makes a ton of sense. I get the playcall from both sides. Great coaching, and one team executed at the right time.

and his explanation is backed up by Pete Carroll's explanation of his own decision:

Under questioning by sports reporters, Carroll explained: “Here’s the deal. We sent our guys on the field — wide receivers on the field — to spread them out. They ran on their goal line (package), they got all their big guys out there.

“At that moment, I didn’t want to waste a run play against their goal line guys, throw the ball and come back on 3rd or 4th (down) where we could match up. So it was really a clear thought … but it didn’t work out right. We throw the ball … and they make a big play.

“It was just because of the match-ups,” he repeated. “They’ve got extra guys on the line of scrimmage so we didn’t want to waste a run play.”
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Butler had practiced the very play Seattle did so he correctly predicted it.

Also as Wilson is not a very tall QB his throw was too high: he should've thrown lower so that it would've resulted in a drop/incompletion.
 
Team Alucard said:
Montana may have been unstoppable in Super Bowls, but he also played in an era where the AFC was a joke conference. All of his championships came during a run of conference dominance where the NFC won 15 of 16 Super Bowls. From the early 80s to the late 90s, Whoever won the NFC Championship was almost a lock to win the SB.

Brady hasn't been as fortunate. He's had to play against the likes of the Greatest Show on Turf Rams and the Legion of Boom.
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The fact that Montana only made it to 4 SBs with the talent that team had, and the money (no cap) is why Brady's accomplishments are better. LOL at someone suggesting Bradshaw was better. Even Bradshaw is smart enough to admit he wasn't better.
 
Derpyduck said:
The fact that Montana only made it to 4 SBs with the talent that team had, and the money (no cap) is why Brady's accomplishments are better. LOL at someone suggesting Bradshaw was better. Even Bradshaw is smart enough to admit he wasn't better.
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I'd say it makes Young look far worse.
 
As someone who was as equally invested in the Packers beating the Hawks as the Hawks beating the Patriots, the Superbowl was infinitely more depressing. At least for Greenbay they got outplayed at the end. Seattle coaches just straight up handed the game over after being in the perfect situation. Down 4, ball at the 1, 2nd and goal, one minute left. They could not have asked for a better setup. I think Barnwell's article said that interception was the greatest recorded swing in win probability in one play, at least for the SB. The Patriots went from having a 12% chance of winning to essentially 100%.

At least those were two of the most exciting games (and in the SB's case, well-played) I've ever seen. I apologize to both the Packers and Seahawks fanbases for jinxing your teams with my stench.
 
You have to be insane (or hate the Pats) to argue that Brady's legacy is dimished by the fact that he made more Super Bowls.

Oh, and he was absolutely incredible yesterday.
 
Ambient80 said:
The others never got the opportunity to "choke" in a big game again. Six appearances is better than just four wins.

Such a dumb argument that because he got second place twice that he automatically can't be the best. He got there two more times than the other two guys, regardless of if he won or not. Not to mention Brady himself didn't choke at all, his defense did.
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I would add that he did it in the salary cap era as well.
 
schwagger15 said:
You have to be insane (or hate the Pats) to argue that Brady's legacy is dimished by the fact that he made more Super Bowls.

Oh, and he was absolutely incredible yesterday.
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he was so-so

2 tds - 2 ints

he was one rational play call away from losing that game

seattle handed him the trophy on a silver platter.
 
Really good analysis from New York Times :

Here are the different point of views :

birdseye-ai2html-300.jpg
(Birdseye)

wilson-ai2html-600.jpg
(Wilson)

lockette-ai2html-300.jpg
(Lockette)
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The pass is good when you consider Wilson's perspective, Lockette is free and the result should be a TD without a doubt. Lockette does not see anyone so Butler literally comes from the shadows and intercepts. Butler is a really good example to young players. He has given comments and stated that he prepared via watching tapes and knew exactly what was about to happen when the Seahawks players lined up. How about that from an undrafted rookie ;__;

I have to say I was wrong to criticize the play so harshly, then again this was my first Super Bowl ever as I've only watched soccer and Ice-Hockey throughout my life. Really starting to like this sport based on this one game.
 
Lone_Prodigy said:
There's a thread on reddit:



Butler had practiced the very play Seattle did so he correctly predicted it.

Also as Wilson is not a very tall QB his throw was too high: he should've thrown lower so that it would've resulted in a drop/incompletion.
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So, in Street Fighter terms it was like they baited a DP and then answered with a 50%+ life combo. Or...moment 37.
 
PeregrinSe7en said:
not in superbowls they didnt. and that's what matters most :)
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This is one of the most ridiculous arguments lol. Brady has the higher winning percentage than Joe did, and while Bradshaw has a very slight edge in percentage, he also went to significantly less games given the length of his career.
 
As for Brady, he's the man. It's almost impossible to compare football players between eras, especially QBs, but he is certainly the best in his respective era, just ahead of Manning. (We'll see where Rodgers ends up too.)
 
ParityBit said:
Montana never played a #1 defense (Cincinnati was 17th?).
Montana had Jerry Rice for 2 SB wins.
Montana only made it to 4 Super Bowls.

1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Who cares, not nearly as good as #1 or #2
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1981: Bengals 3rd best offense, 12th best D
1984: Dolphins #1 offense, #7 defense
1988: Bengals #1 offense, #16 defense
1989: Broncos #8 offense, #1 defense

There is no comparison. Montana destroys brady, i'm sorry. Montana never had a turnover in a superbowl. Montana absolutely obliterated the #1 defense for the biggest superbowl blowout in NFL history.

If you actually think brady is better than montana then you never saw montana play
 
Dion Blaster said:
As for Brady, he's the man. It's almost impossible to compare football players between eras, especially QBs, but he is certainly the best in his respective era, just ahead of Manning. (We'll see where Rodgers ends up too.)
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I think Rodgers can definitely make noise in this argument, however Tom really is from a different era.
 
ICKE said:
Really good analysis from New York Times :

Here are the different point of views :



The pass is good when you consider Wilson's perspective, Lockette is free and the result should be a TD without a doubt. Lockette does not see anyone so Butler literally comes from the shadows and intercepts.

Butler is a really good example to other players, he has given comments and stated that he prepared via watching tapes and knew exactly what was about to happen when the Seahawks players lined up.

I have to say I was wrong to criticize the play so harshly, then again this was my first Super Bowl ever as I've only watched soccer and Ice-Hockey throughout my life. Really starting to like this sport based on this one game.
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That's a pretty cool graphic. Make no mistake though, that was the worst playcall I have ever seen and if you start watching football more I still don't think you'll see one that dumb in the near future. DBs jumping routes like that isn't out of the ordinary.
 
FrenchMovieTheme said:
1981: Bengals 3rd best offense, 12th best D
1984: Dolphins #1 offense, #7 defense
1988: Bengals #1 offense, #16 defense
1989: Broncos #8 offense, #1 defense

There is no comparison. Montana destroys brady, i'm sorry. Montana never had a turnover in a superbowl. Montana absolutely obliterated the #1 defense for the biggest superbowl blowout in NFL history.

If you actually think brady is better than montana then you never saw montana play
Click to expand...

I saw Montana play, and I had his Game Gear game.

meh.
 
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