Majoras Mask 3D - Review Thread

Griss said:
Because the game design "is" the game. The visuals can be improved to bring things up to modern standards, but the design is what we fell in love with. The changes are far from miniscule, that's an absurd comment. The first thing anyone used to say when MM was mentioned is "oh man, that save system". That memorable feature has been entirely removed / changed. Nothing miniscule about that. Nothing miniscule about changes to the bomber's notebook, which is the facilitator to the game's sidequests, when the entire meat of the game is said sidequests. This isn't an ordinary Zelda. It relied on atmosphere, 'negative' design decisions (time pressure, losing progress, an unbeatable boss) and sidequests more than any other to leave its impression on you. All of these things are being smoothed off by the changes, quite obviously and deliberately. If you like the changes, fine, but it's obvious why fans of the original wouldn't, and it's obvious that these changes aren't minor.



You didn't offend me, I'm just surprised someone on a videogame forum is surprised that others enjoy making their own fun in games. That's a massively common occurrence, Messing around with game systems, even just a little bit, is fun for most gamers. Freedom is more fun than restriction.
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Pretty sure in all my years with the MM fans, I have rarely seen any of them mention the save system as the first thing that comes to mind. Honestly, the ones that mentioned it specifically were the ones that didn't like how it worked - so when you asked someone why they don't like or haven't played the game, they mentioned the save system. It was arguably the #1 barrier of entry into the game.

The bombers notebook was fine and dandy, but admittedly hard to understand. Sure, we can say we get it now, but personally I had to use a guide back in 2000 to understand exactly how that notebook works, which tells me it was a great idea with a flawed design. Maybe it;s a bit TOO helpful now, but it's not like you HAVE to use it. It was always optional in the original and is still optional to use now.

The atmosphere really still feels intact to me, because I didn't play the game for the save system or for the bomber's notebook, but for the experience of the world I am in. If I failed, I didn't feel "more into" the game because man, I have to redo everything starting at day one - in fact, I felt frustrated to the point I didn't want to play anymore and kept wondering why Nintendo would include save points that don't let me return to them. I did power through it, but the save system sucked back then and I still LOVED the game. As for wanting to be punished for failing - just don't use the owl statues then. You can close your 3DS for that "temporary save" and then pick up and play later, fail, and still restart your 3 days. Like, you can literally do that anytime you want. The closing of the 3DS replaces that entire initial save system with the same idea, just usable anytime.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
That's on your head then. If you feel the need to exploit every option given to you, that's your fault entirely, not the games.
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Let's take Xenoblade as an example, since I presume by your avatar that you like the game. Let's say they remake Xenoblade in HD, but with one crucial difference: you now gain as much EXP from running away from enemies (for the sake of not entirely breaking the game, let's say only enemies that are less than 5 levels higher than you) as you do from beating them. Taking advantage of that is entirely optional, and yet would you be happy with such a change?

It's the game's responsibility to provide restrictions that suit the player, not the otherway around.

Kirby games are often ridiculously easy at the start. Would you suggest to someone who doesn't like easy games to play with one hand and self-handicap themselves?

Tookay said:
Allowing you to go forward to any particular hour is a good time-saving mechanic that doesn't really lose that essence if you ask me. You still needed to figure out the sidequest and the location/time of it, which requires you to experience it "the right way" the first time through detective work. It's just that once you know where you're supposed to be after the first attempt, it allows you to get there faster on subsequent attempts.

It seems similar to me to how the swift sail works.
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Yes, the swift sail DOES to some extent trivialise the sailing of Wind Waker. However I'd argue that
A) it doesn't trivialise it nearly as much as Majora's Mask 3D trivialises it's time mechanic IMO. The equivalent, I feel, would be the theoretical instant warping I talked about earlier.
B) You have to go a small part of the game without the swift sail anyway and
C) You have to earn, in game, the ability to do so. It's not handed to you.

Tookay said:
Okay this is a point that has been repeated a couple times in the thread.

Getting frustrated at posters who have overreacted to some of the changes is not in itself an overreaction. They are not direct equivalents.
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but what if, in their opinion, they're not over-reacting at all? Why can't you let people have differing opinions from your own? =/ Nobody here is telling you to be annoyed at the changes, just that they themselves are and if this, in itself, shouldn't effect your enjoyment of the game.
 
Tookay said:
Okay this is a point that has been repeated a couple times in the thread.

Getting frustrated at posters who have overreacted to some of the changes is not in itself an overreaction. They are not direct equivalents.
Click to expand...

He was quoting a review. If he was quoting somebody who was doing what you were saying you'd sort of have a point, but he seems to be randomly going off on people who are let down that ice arrows have some of their versatility taken away from them.

Also, how is being disappointed overreacting?
 
Tookay said:
Okay this is a point that has been repeated a couple times in the thread.

Getting frustrated at posters who have overreacted to some of the changes is not in itself an overreaction. They are not direct equivalents.
Click to expand...

I personally have not overreacted and I haven't seen anyone else overreact either. I have seen some are more critical of unnecessary changes than others. If I were to overreact you'd see my bring out a color picker program and complain that skull kid has the wrong color clothes or link is wearing the wrong green or something and macing gamestop employees
 
I have to agree with Jamix here. It's still going to be a great game, but these changes are very emblematic of the problems I have with modern Nintendo.
 
TheSlySoul said:
We are mostly going off of review opinion. GameXplain was pretty sure that the hints pop up whenever someone says something important, meaning you do not have to listen to the NPC dialogue now. It is also more direct than the dialogue gives, like the Goron example pretty much points you to the exact person you need to go to.
It will be great for those that want to speedrun through games, but part of the fun of the original was figuring out stuff based on what people said.
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I'll say this again for the millionth time: this is false. Completely and utterly false. The notebook never tells you what to do, it doesn't do it in that example either.
The notebook is simply a logbook that points down your successes and failures and keeps track of quests. If someone is stupid enough to play the game without reading the dialog that's their problem.

It never tells you where to go, what to do, who to talk to, it doesn't tell you anything other than what you were just told. The original created a promise sticker (I don't remember if it had a description), this one creates an entry in the logbook.

It doesn't tell you anything the NPCs don't. The only exception I've seen is when you talk to a Business Scrub and he says he wants to go to a place with trees and stuff and if you fail the notebook says he wants a swamp title deed.

That Goron Quest for example, the gamexplain guy is making a wrong conclusion and everyone who's inclined to think the game was casualized doesn't even see what's happening.
When you meet the hungry Goron, no entry is created. You later meet a Goron that tells you you can have his sirloin hidden in the chandelier, just like in the original. No entry is created. When you get the Sirloin, you get an entry saying where you got it and that the Goron who told it where it was hid it there, which you already know because he told you so. It doesn't tell you anything related to the the hungry Goron where you have to take it.

The notebook was created so that people could keep track of what's happening and use that to help people. The new notebook just does it better and helps you keep track of things so you don't need to point them down or memorize them. I remember that I only 100%ed MM ages after finishing the game and it was hell to remember what I did or not and who told me what. This prevents that problem.

The only change that actually helps with quests is if you talk with bombers when they run after you they tell you a rumor about a side quest like "it seems there's a great fairy that needs help in the mountains". This creates a rumored event entry that helps you knowing there are some side quests if you're completely lost, but it doesn't really tell you anything, doesn't even have a map.

Hell, the Gossip Stones tell you much more with the Mask of Truth and that was in the original.
 
The Boat said:
Hell, the Gossip Stones tell you much more with the Mask of Truth and that was in the original.
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Ok, thanks for clarifying since you have a review copy.
That quells my fears a bit in that the reviewers were just wrong.
There was a phase where Nintendo pretty much simplified everything to the point of boredom. It is why I don't like Skyward Sword that much.

Edit: Not just Andre, I read many reviews. At least 3 others said it.

The Boat said:
It doesn't tell you anything the NPCs don't. The only exception I've seen is when you talk to a Business Scrub and he says he wants to go to a place with trees and stuff and if you fail the notebook says he wants a swamp title deed.
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Ah, then that isn't so bad then. I was going off some reviewers that said the notebook told more details than in the original game.
 
Acerac said:
He was quoting a review. If he was quoting somebody who was doing what you were saying you'd sort of have a point, but he seems to be randomly going off on people who are let down that ice arrows have some of their versatility taken away from them.

Also, how is being disappointed overreacting?
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Surely you can come up with more to contribute to this discussion than "Gee, you guys sure are having this discussion."
 
Jamix012 said:
but what if, in their opinion, they're not over-reacting at all? Why can't you let people have differing opinions from your own? =/ Nobody here is telling you to be annoyed at the changes, just that they themselves are and if this, in itself, shouldn't effect your enjoyment of the game.
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I've used this example before: we had somebody earlier in this thread saying that the change to the Deku Scrub cutscene missed the point because it was supposed to be annoying. In his own opinion he might not have been overreacting, but the average reasonable person can say he is - that cutscene being repeated over and over served little purpose other than (oftentimes accidentally) wasting your time.

I'll let people have differing opinions from my own; but if I think those opinions are ridiculous, I might be critical of them. That's the cost of putting one's unmoderated opinions out there - you might get pushback for them. And I fully expect somebody to call me out when my opinions are ridiculous as well.
 
Timeaisis said:
Lol I can't tell if you are actually serious
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Depends on how it was coded, but theoretically a universal damage multiplier COULD be done in one line. Chances are you'd have to change the attributes for every enemy 'object' in the game.

The hardest part would be the additional UI requirements from a hero mode.
 
TheSlySoul said:
Ok, thanks for clarifying since you have a review copy.
That quells my fears a bit in that the reviewers were just wrong.
There was a phase where Nintendo pretty much simplified everything to the point of boredom. It is why I don't like Skyward Sword that much.


Ah, then that isn't so bad then. I was going off some reviewers that said the notebook told more details than in the original game.
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Tathanen said:
Thanks for the summary. Pretty much what I had gleaned by actually watching the GameXplain video, good to see it elaborated upon.
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No problem.

It does tell you more than the original, because the original didn't tell you anything other than character descriptions and schedules (I honestly don't remember if the promise stickers has any description) but everything it says is what a character just told you.

Of course, there's no getting around that this makes things slightly more obvious and there might be one or two exceptions like the one I mentioned, but it's nothing you haven't read before.
It doesn't point down everything you're told, just relevant info you're told in certain key points when you create the events and succeed/fail.

Here are some examples, linked for minor, minor "spoilers", note that the final entry in the Goron quest was only created when I finished the quest.

Hungry Goron:
http://imgur.com/jFKqVgY
Rumored events:
http://imgur.com/DOpPkNm
Madam Aroma:
http://imgur.com/63EutMy
 
Zeeman said:
This seems to have been a mistake by GameXplain. From earlier in the thread:
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That's good. As long as it tells you after instead of before, I'm cool with it.

Christopher said:
You're too much - please stick to the n64 I'm sure in Majora's Mask the eyebrows will not be an issue for you on the eShop version.
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Look. They changed her expression to look perpetually angry. It was small subtle stuff like that which always bothered me.

I already played every version of OoT and MM...I'm not missing any new editions. :P
 
The Boat said:
Here are some examples, linked for minor, minor "spoilers", note that the final entry in the Goron quest was only created when I finished the quest.

http://imgur.com/jFKqVgY
http://imgur.com/DOpPkNm
http://imgur.com/63EutMy
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Thanks for the pictures!
Yeah, now seeing it without gameplay, it doesn't look too bad. Guess the worse thing now is that it isn't completely optional but honestly I used the notebook plenty in the original game because it was hard to remember the times.
 
akidnamededdy said:
Surely you can come up with more to contribute to this discussion than "Gee, you guys sure are having this discussion."
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Read the post I quoted. I was explaining the point of what I was saying because he also couldn't be assed to read the post I quoted.

It's an epidemic. -_-
 
Timeaisis said:
Lol I can't tell if you are actually serious
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Not totally serious, no. Occasionally Nintendo does something unique with hero mode like removing heart drops in Skyward Sword.

But let's be honest here. Doubling enemy damage alone is about the laziest implementation of a "hard mode" you can get. I could accomplish the same effect in Twilight Princess using Ocarina hacks. It seems to really be too much to expect Nintendo to implement remixed dungeons and enemy placement or, quite frankly, any meaningful new content in their Zelda remasters.

Plus with Majora's Mask, Nintendo tried to hype the fact that they were making major changes, and I guess with the amount of purists getting upset, they was some truth to that, but overall the new changes are all pretty superficial compared to new content. To me, it's not just that Nintendo appears to be dumbing down mechanics and catering to "casuals," but as a hardcore fan, I'm tired of being jerked around being asked to pay full price for these half-baked remasters, and now we're told the latest version can't even offer a hero mode, the absolute bare minimum I would expect Nintendo to offer Zelda veterans.
 
The Boat said:
No problem.

It does tell you more than the original, because the original didn't tell you anything other than character descriptions and schedules (I honestly don't remember if the promise stickers has any description) but everything it says is what a character just told you.

Of course, there's no getting around that this makes things slightly more obvious and there might be one or two exceptions like the one I mentioned, but it's nothing you haven't read before.
It doesn't point down everything you're told, just relevant info you're told in certain key points when you create the events and succeed/fail.

Here are some examples, linked for minor, minor "spoilers", note that the final entry in the Goron quest was only created when I finished the quest.

Hungry Goron:
http://imgur.com/jFKqVgY
Rumored events:
http://imgur.com/DOpPkNm
Madam Aroma:
http://imgur.com/63EutMy
Click to expand...

I actually kinda like this. I know most of the Mask sidequests off by heart but I enjoy how neat and straightforward this is without completely removing any mystery or challenge to doing stuff.
 
So can we finally kill the back and forth about the notebook? Is there still someone who thinks the notebook changes ruin everything?
 
TheMoon said:
So can we finally kill the back and forth about the notebook? Is there still someone who thinks the notebook changes ruin everything?
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I think it's cool...as long as nothing shows up before you should know about it. That would be a huge killjoy and cement my fear that SS's design philosophies are hauntingly here to stay. But I assume they're not.

I think the scheduler is really cool. I just hope it doesn't feel too gamey/transparent.
 
Glad to see the game being received well. Some of the new changes seem baffling and disappointing especially as a huge fan of the original.
It's weird since a lot of the improvements are for the better like improved camera controls, smoother interface, gyro aiming, fixed save system, better time management, better performance/visuals etc all sound great but then they add in weird and unnecessary changes so I wonder if this is the definitive version of the game or if the original still is. I wish they would've left Goron Link, Zora Link, and the ice arrows alone but I welcome a lot of other changes
 
I would probably say it is given that I have never bothered to return to Majora's Mask after completing it given the frustration that I had at rather tedious elements sour my mood. (that and attempting to play OoT on the 64 again killed more of my feelings).

Given that, I saw the great aspects of Majora's Mask that isn't anywhere else in the Zelda franchise, but how they were executed in the original was not why I thought they were great.
 
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Smash fans are at least as bad if not worse.

The Smash, Sonic, and Mega Man fanbases are all constantly vying for the title of "worst fanbase," and I say that as a fan of all three series.
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As someone not familiar with rabid mega man fans, what makes them so bad? It's not like they're defending garbage games or claiming that the original mega man games are so much better because 'dashing is for noobs'... are they?
 
Why is Great Bay Temple a con in the IGN review? People didn't like the Great Bay Temple? I thought it was a huge step above the original Water Temple.
 
SomewhatGroovy said:
try popping in (a smash thread) and saying that the netcode to their game is bad.

godspeed.
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I know the smash community, I was one of the most active posters in the picture of the day threads. I know the good, I know the bad.

I'm asking about mega man fans. Had no idea they were bad. All I typically hear is how they want it to come back, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
georly said:
As someone not familiar with rabid mega man fans, what makes them so bad? It's not like they're defending garbage games or claiming that the original mega man games are so much better because 'dashing is for noobs'... are they?
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Fans will complain about anything man. For everything you hate, there's always someone out there being contrarian and defending it.

PAULINK said:
I think you guys comparing fanbases forgot about 8.8
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I'll never forget it.
To be honest, GS had it coming because TP was easily a 10/10 and their review read like someone came into the game with an agenda. :P
 
Astral said:
Why is Great Bay Temple a con in the IGN review? People didn't like the Great Bay Temple? I thought it was a huge step above the original Water Temple.
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Probably because the ice arrow changes dumbs down a handful of puzzles to "use this item here" prompts.
 
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