User 73706
Banned
Conversely: "it doesn't go to my thighs, i'm just extremely fertile, like the Venusian idols of old"
If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
- Thread starter wildfire
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Conversely: "it doesn't go to my thighs, i'm just extremely fertile, like the Venusian idols of old"
This comes across as needlessly antagonistic and hampering discussion though. Just calling people racist and bigot isn't exactly helpful.
notworksafe
Member
pls all this oppression going on rite now
I want to eventually have kids. (Kids that have DNA of my mate and myself.)
If I were with a woman who couldn't have kids, I'd be devastated if we couldn't have kids.
I would have to break it off, even if she was the love of my life.
Yeah, that probably sounds selfish,
but it's a dream of mine to have children.
If I were with a woman who couldn't have kids, I'd be devastated if we couldn't have kids.
I would have to break it off, even if she was the love of my life.
Yeah, that probably sounds selfish,
but it's a dream of mine to have children.
stufte
Member
This statement is ridiculous.
Look I am with you in thinking the people who say this are shallow, and that they would find a woman of any race attractive if they allowed themselves to be open to dates more and such, but people are attracted to what they know they are attracted to.
IF they find a person of a certain race attractive, but their race is the deal breaker for non-aesthetic reasons (including how other people would perceive them dating, that they think it makes them culturally different due to genetic differences etc.) then that is racist.
If I know that I tend to sit next to black girls and not the asian girls when I'm looking to take someone out for a date, it doesn't mean I am racist. Technically, smally, whatever, but calling some a racist is a strong label people do not want to be associated with because that word is mostly used to call someone a disgusting human being.
Damn, I guess calling racist people racist is bad because they don't want to be called racist?
This thread is too dumb for me I'm out.
User 73706
Banned
I think you're taking it a little too literally - the statement was embellishing using a common adage and it clearly started going over peoples' heads. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming the literal meaning behind it is that "If you don't find someone who's race X attractive because they're race X, that's probably racist on some level." I really doubt the intent behind it was "If you don't find someone who's race X attractive because the pigmentation of their skin is rgba(Y), that's probably racist on some level."
Blindly calling people "racist" is a horrible thing to do. That's what you're doing. Stop.
Damn that is dense. ��
How bad to do you see people that you consider to be racist, since your criteria is pretty much anything that separates race for anything? I mean where do you draw the line? Can it be racist that I can't identify as white?
A few things. "Virtually" is a fairly broad qualifier. Second, for lack of a better word, there's something of an uncanny valley effect going on for the total package for me. I speak only based on my own experience. My in person experience has been with fully clothed individuals, and any less clothing is in images. There's a difference between selecting the best angles and lighting in a still image, and seeing something in living, moving flesh. It's hard to convince a skeptic in this instance. PEACE.
Literally all I've said is that if you don't want to want to date an entire race because they look different, you're probably racist on some level. Accept that. Enough with the strawman.
There are very clear reasons for it, it's hardly blind.
Humans don't use pheromonal signals.
Things like androgen levels, production of oxytocin, etc do play a part in attraction. But hormones and pheromones are different.
stufte
Member
Or maybe calling people who aren't racist, racist is bad? You had me when you were saying it was a prejudice (perhaps), but it's like you have no idea the power of words.
Some girls do smell really good though.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Saying "probably" leaves room for your statement to not be true in all cases.
So in what instances are you allowing for someone to not qualify as a racist if they don't want to date black/Indian/etc people?
User 73706
Banned
I completely get where you're coming from, and I appreciate that you've made strides to clarify your point / stance on the whole thing. Thing is, it's absolutely possible to retain your current standpoints - what you find attractive in people - and possibly expand on those views by including race, but without it being needlessly racially-charged. What you're experiencing is normal and largely hinges on the demographics that surround us; the difference is that you can't make it about absolutes, and you're far from the only one who unintentionally does so.
It ultimately won't make major differences in this day and age with most people, but the ones that do care about the semantics pertaining to racial equality - such as myself - will appreciate the distinction. Rather than put all the emphasis on an absolute on something as strong as race, clarify your interests. "I'm a huge fan of Metallica, and where I live it has a way larger Samoan following than an African-American one, so it's a lot easier for me to connect with Samoan fans about Metallica on first dates and surface-level encounters." Obviously you don't have to be as wordy about it, but specifying something like that is critical in pointing that sort of stuff out. Now, if the actual view point was "I'm a huge fan of Metallica, and I'm exclusively trying to date Samoan women, regardless of whether or not they like Metallica," obviously that's extremely racially-charged. Racially-charged to the extent that the Metallica bits might as well not be in the sentence. I really doubt a majority of people defending themselves here are dating people specifically because of the attraction hinging entirely on race - you could probably count the people who put "is a Vietnamese man" at the top of their mandatory relationship requirements with the rest being gravy on two hands.
Just be forward and honest about your interests in terms of attraction. Obviously transgender-related opinions are an entirely different beast, but if you're hanging out with a group of minorities who stay pretty updated on race relations and you specify that your date demographics regarding race or nationality have more to do with related interests because of locale or culture, they probably aren't going to take massive offense. If you stereotype or rely highly on hypotheticals, that's one thing - "I've been trying to date eastern european women because I know they love to clean" is obviously a horrible thing to say - but if you refer to your personality and provide specific examples - "Yeah, a lot of the SoCal girls here have been really into Grindcore, but barely any of the Welsh girls I've talked to have been interested in it," and so on - it's going to be a lot more beneficial for all parties.
I'm gonna take that probably back because I can't really think of any legit concrete reason. Maybe there is though, I can't think of one.
You mean identify an X chromosome? I've not been trained to as I'm not a biologist. That really is relevant. You issued a blanket statement that the biology being used in this thread was absolutely disgusting. But there are cis hetero people in here that aren't attracted to transgendered people. How is it discrimination that they aren't going to romantically involve themselves with someone who is trans on account of their natural orientation? Why is that from a biological standpoint not a legitimate orientation, and why is it in particular bigoted to have that orientation? Why am I bigoted for thinking those people are entitled to who they are? How is it different from any other sexual orientation?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm going to take a leap and say that you're probably a closet racist. You can't exactly prove me wrong.</sarcasm>
GoldenEye 007
Member
I'm pretty sure people can elect where they would like their dick inserted or not for any reason under the sun and there is nothing wrong with that.
Not sure if I subscribe to the notion that not wanting to date someone or a group of people = racist/bigoted. But if that is the label being pushed here, then I guess my reaction is so what?
I'm not sure why there is such an interest in the dating preferences of others are. If the conclusion is that a person who does not want to have a sexual relationship with a trans person is that they are bigoted/prejudiced/whatever, then I guess so be it? But I wouldn't inherently see anything wrong with that in the context of dating someone.
Welcome to the winning team.
User 73706
Banned
Guys. Please read the posts longer than two sentences made by people other than mods. There's been a lot of clarifying and semantic adjustment regarding the "preference versus prejudice" thing. Don't let a single poster calling everyone racists and inciting confrontation shape your entire image of the various people you're having a discussion with.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
Because, let's be honest, it's not really about the chromosomes.
Some AFAB women are born with Y chromosomes. Unless a person would suddenly break up with that person as a result (which I would find...odd?), then clearly the chromosomes aren't really the issue.
It's ultimately about believing, on some level, that trans women/men aren't ACTUALLY women/men. I mean, that's understandable on some level, given the sheer volume of transphobia and negation of trans identities that we're bombarded with by society and the media on a daily basis. I don't think it makes those individuals terrible people.
I'm also not going to start trying to police people's attraction, saying that they're REQUIRED to be attracted to X, Y, and Z, as that's sort of counter to what a lot of the foundational elements of the LGBT rights movement.
But...
As a trans person, it's still deeply unpleasant to deal with. As a trans person, it still hurts. And, well...I have to say that it does affect my opinion of someone if I hear them express those opinions.
What can I say? If their attraction is hard-wired, so is my personal reaction to it.
Bravo on this post.
I don't see why you replied to me with this because all of this I agree with haha.
If I were looking for a mate again, I would like a slightly chubby, slightly brown asian tomboy with an American accent. Awfully specific haha, you can't write Ruby into existence anyway so we don't have awfully specific criteria that have to be filled perfectly.
People will have preferences and most people fall into love with people outside of those preferences. Even when they find them after falling in love with someone not from their dreams, they still choose to be with the one they ended up with.
There is a lovely TED Talk and that we actually learn to love what we end up with, how a guy with really short memory was told he had to choose from a 2nd best and 3rd best from a collection lf pictures. This order of preference changed unknowingly to him as after he forgot, for some reason the 2nd best became his favourite out of them all (or something like that).
People who say they don't find black girls attractive, that's all fine and well, I mean they don't need to say so and I am convinced they could fall in love regardless, but when they are looking for what they like they are free to have preferences.
Although if people think Eastern European women like to clean etc. and date someone based on that sort of prejudice, that is petty.
That is not selfish. You can have intimate relationships with whomever you see fit for it and you should not feel bad about that.
What's up, doc?
smell =/= pheromone. It's a common misconception because in mammals the vomer-nasal organ is in the nose. And yeah, sometimes girls smell pretty rad. It's slightly sour.
Oh I know, I was just saying.
I have once or twice told my partner to not take a shower in the evening because I wanted to smell her scent. Of course it used to be weird but I guess she understands now.
Preferences are one thing, ideals are another. Hanging onto ideals and becoming inflexible to change or acceptance is not a good way to live a life in my opinion. Declaring you are against something because it doesn't fit into your belief system is the basis for racism, discrimination, and bigotry. You are pre-judging someone based solely on a single characteristic that is out of that person's control.
Again, no one is saying you have to go out and date a trans person today, but it's not any less shallow than saying you won't date someone because they are handicap, or of a certain race.
Again, no one is saying you have to go out and date a trans person today, but it's not any less shallow than saying you won't date someone because they are handicap, or of a certain race.
i dont judge but i find it very difficult to deal with the linguistics? how to call people without offending them, i guess calling them how they want to be called. but universally? i just wanted to say that, ive gotten into some trouble because of me not knowing how to address that.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I'm of the belief that racism/bigotry comes from seeing others as inhuman. Not wanting to date someone or even a group of people doesn't necessarily mean you consider them to be less than human.
Can you clarify a bit and/or give an example? That issue be pretty simple to rectify.
Oddly I find women that remind me of my mother physically, more attractive.
User 73706
Banned
I don't see how this is contributing anything remotely resembling empathetic to the discussion if your entire standpoint is "so what if they're racist / sexist / [stuff]phobic?" We're at a point in this thread where the only people who are really being questioned re: accepting transgender individuals, but not being attracted to them for not being "real" women / men are the ones that don't clarify. Anyone who's made use of a justification as simple as "I want to have kids the red-blooded American way of one man, one woman and three trimesters" has been let off with a pass for the most part. It's the drive-by posters that go "I mean, I'm cool with them and all, but I would never date someone transgender. That's just how I feel" that are being questioned. Why do you feel that way? is what we're trying to get to the bottom of.
This is also completely fair, and any attempts at establishing a double-standard, e.g. "why are you getting so worked up about this? it's just how I feel, I mean, I'm cool with you doing that, I would just never want to be with you because of it, it's just an opinion, calm down" don't deserve the time of day.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Tbh I wouldn't be able to date a transgender woman, I wouldn't be able to get over the fact that they used to have a dick.
Glad to see I'm not the only dude with an Oedipus Complex.
It is a spectrum, seeing a group of people as inhuman monsters vs. seeing one group who is less than another group are both points on this spectrum.
John Kowalski
Banned
Oh deer.
Thanks for this reply. The chromosomes weren't really the sticking point. Not is it being trans. I have found some mtf woman attractive. Mostly ones that went on hormones early on. Though attraction really isn't the sticking point. I certainly would never ask someone if they were trans to avoid them. Nor would I break up with them if revealed it to me. I would be upset if I was married and I was told before hand. I may still marry them If I love them enough. But I think the chances of all of that coming together as such are rather unlikely for me. In particular because of being hetero. No I know some people are out right saying they would never, but I guess I'm saying that the likelihood that I would ever end up in such a relationship would be rather slim. If I knew the person was trans ahead of time It would be even less likely because I don't believe in soulmates, and I'd like to marry to eventually have kids with. Of course the love would need to be their, but my point is that not believing in soul mates I think everyone has multiple people they could be compatible with and I'd rather also have someone who can become pregnant. I realize there is a lot of cis hetero privilege when it comes the amount of people that you could plausible become paired to.
liliththepale
Banned
This is a bit like saying you wouldn't want to date a woman because she used to be a girl, and dating a girl makes you a pedophile.
What people were does not always have bearing on what they are.
It is about as difficult as being able to get over the fact that they had another dick in them, hitting all the corners before you, leaving their mark. Dick cheese last for like 7 years.
This is sarcasm.
stufte
Member
This is not uncommon, Log4Oedipuz.
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