icecold1983
Member
The temporal aa and mblur are the biggest reasons the difference shrinks in motion. My point is they are similar enough that if x game looks better than ryse on xbone it will always look better than the pc version too
Digital Foundry Performance Analysis: The Order: 1886
- Thread starter Savantcore
- Start date
The temporal aa and mblur are the biggest reasons the difference shrinks in motion. My point is they are similar enough that if x game looks better than ryse on xbone it will always look better than the pc version too
This sold me on the game just purchased.....:O
To be honest, doing differential stuff within such small battles might have been needed because some of the later battles seem really, really uninspired. Well, that is if you assume gameplay was the priority.
I viewed the video and I can't help but want the enemies to be aware of what weapon the player is wielding and making banters/orders and actually have most of them act accordingly based on your technique and gun. Having others critique dead enemies for making dumb moves would have been awesome.
It's rather funny the graphics whore in me hasn't been excited for this game despite knowing this is probably the best looking game right now.
TrojanBlade
Member
I read the article and it read more like a game review than tech analysis. Why is the gameplay or length even discussed in this article? Makes no sense.
What is going on in the gaming world ... Now it's all about creating a drama and sensationalism instead of appreciating all kinds of games for what they are.
Not all games will be liked by all or not liked but all. And that's ok.
What is going on in the gaming world ... Now it's all about creating a drama and sensationalism instead of appreciating all kinds of games for what they are.
Not all games will be liked by all or not liked but all. And that's ok.
Monster Zero
Junior Member
Tech analysis can only be tech analysis and nothing else? Why not both
John Bender
Banned
I'm a few hours in.
Nevermind consoles or PCs, this is the best looking video game that currently exists. The post processing effects and anti-aliasing add such a professional gloss to the image, I know people say it all the time, but it's like watching a CG film. There are no jaggies, no stray pixels, no blurry textures, no strange artifacts. Even the chromatic aberration is used tastefully, adding a soft coloured blur at the edges of the screen - not a tacky hard afterimage like many other games. The depth of field and motion blur is the best I've ever seen.
Nevermind consoles or PCs, this is the best looking video game that currently exists. The post processing effects and anti-aliasing add such a professional gloss to the image, I know people say it all the time, but it's like watching a CG film. There are no jaggies, no stray pixels, no blurry textures, no strange artifacts. Even the chromatic aberration is used tastefully, adding a soft coloured blur at the edges of the screen - not a tacky hard afterimage like many other games. The depth of field and motion blur is the best I've ever seen.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Exactly my thoughts, DF isn't an entity unto themselves. This isn't about censorship it's just unnecessary and detracts from the purpose of a performance analysis.
You cant judge that. Actually, i'm pretty sure that motion blur and DoF is higher quality in Ryse, going by older footage of The Order and its 1/4 res DoF.
Can You post screens with PoM?
How many times i've already discussed this with You? Three? You exactly know, that quality is the same as in real-time cutscenes. Why are You spreading this fud?
Btw do You know what Penumbra shadows are? Because You have not answer to Dictator's post.
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Sure that this looks better than 900 + FXAA, but only slightly better.They didn't destroy the IQ. The game would look wrong if it had the tack sharp, unprocessed visuals. But the detail is there, and it's undeniable. I've seen what a similar scene to this looks like in BF4 with its 900p/FXAA, and it's uncomparably worse, and I bet in motion the difference would be even more profound on all those subpixel details.
And IQ is destroyed. I can hardly see textures on the ground.
nelsonroyale
Member
Hmmm, I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't just PR speak. But it may be true if they wanted to get the framerate more stable.
Yea, you're being ridiculous.
I disagree. I enjoy hearing opinions wherever they may be. The only reason you may not enjoy hearing Digital Foundry's opinion on The Order is if you're trying to protect your own opinion.
I guess I get why Ryse and The Order get so many comparisons but I don't see why Crytek seems to be the bar people want to measure against on consoles. I know full well what their engine is capable of from PC but on consoles I haven't been as impressed.
The one thing thats seems to be consistent is that they try to bundle as many effects and shaders per scene as they can get away with. While this may work in the PC realm where you can tell gamers to buy better hardware, they often have to scale back so much on consoles that the aesthetic is no where near the the same. I honestly think the console exclusive developers SSM, ND, Remedy, etc put together way more appealing visual packages.
The one thing thats seems to be consistent is that they try to bundle as many effects and shaders per scene as they can get away with. While this may work in the PC realm where you can tell gamers to buy better hardware, they often have to scale back so much on consoles that the aesthetic is no where near the the same. I honestly think the console exclusive developers SSM, ND, Remedy, etc put together way more appealing visual packages.
Ryse was a launch title built specifically for the XB1. It was, and still is, a standout graphics title for the system and in general. I think they've shown there they've got the chops to create great looking console games.
Games like Crysis 2 and 3 were multiplatform developed with PC as lead. Its no surprise the results aren't as impressive as Ryse was. Comparing multiplatform titles with platform exclusives is always going to be a lopsided affair.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I played like the first hour or two now and good god this game is not fun at all so far. I really don't know what they were thinking when they decided to have these kinds of "interactions". They are so boring and meaningless it hurts.
If you start out with so much QTE and walking stuff you need to start the story with a bang. The Last Of Us also took some time untill you got to the first shooting part. But they made the story heavy walking part much more interesting. (even though I have to confess and nearly stopped playing TLoU in the first two hours because I didn't like it. Good thing I didn't because it became my favorite game of all time)
Performance seems fine so far. Didn't encounter any noticable drops or anything. Maybe some clipping here and there. Not bothered by the black bars so far, I think the aspect ratio looks actually pretty nice. But I didn't encounter any frantic shootouts yet(if there are any in this game) and I could see the bars bothering me a bit in these cases.
If anyone ever bitches along the lines of "what does next gen gameplay even mean?" again just show them a comparison between a shooting section in The Order and the Uncharted 4 gameplay demo.
The graphics are incredible. I haven't seen anything close to this on any plattform. Don't know exactly what it is. I guess its mostly the shader quality. The little details you see in wood or on other surfaces when light falls on them differently. After the intro there is a scene where you open a door and the sunlight shines on it and it looks so freaking good.
Its in another league and I think it will be the best looking videogame around for quite some time.
Its also very rare to find such a consistent game. Usually, no matter how great a game looks, you can easily find some low poly objects here and there, some low res textures or just something that sticks out. Not in The Order.
Its what keeps me playing right now, but its really such a shame that this great tech is wasted on such a boring game.
Kinda disappointed by the physics. Somehow I expected to be able to destory and deform a lot of stuff but the gameworld is extremely static and most of the time the game doesn't allow you to shoot your weapon anyway.
I hope with their next game RAD can set their priorties differently and use the tech they have now for game with worthwhile gameplay.
If you start out with so much QTE and walking stuff you need to start the story with a bang. The Last Of Us also took some time untill you got to the first shooting part. But they made the story heavy walking part much more interesting. (even though I have to confess and nearly stopped playing TLoU in the first two hours because I didn't like it. Good thing I didn't because it became my favorite game of all time)
Performance seems fine so far. Didn't encounter any noticable drops or anything. Maybe some clipping here and there. Not bothered by the black bars so far, I think the aspect ratio looks actually pretty nice. But I didn't encounter any frantic shootouts yet(if there are any in this game) and I could see the bars bothering me a bit in these cases.
If anyone ever bitches along the lines of "what does next gen gameplay even mean?" again just show them a comparison between a shooting section in The Order and the Uncharted 4 gameplay demo.
The graphics are incredible. I haven't seen anything close to this on any plattform. Don't know exactly what it is. I guess its mostly the shader quality. The little details you see in wood or on other surfaces when light falls on them differently. After the intro there is a scene where you open a door and the sunlight shines on it and it looks so freaking good.
Its in another league and I think it will be the best looking videogame around for quite some time.
Its also very rare to find such a consistent game. Usually, no matter how great a game looks, you can easily find some low poly objects here and there, some low res textures or just something that sticks out. Not in The Order.
Its what keeps me playing right now, but its really such a shame that this great tech is wasted on such a boring game.
Kinda disappointed by the physics. Somehow I expected to be able to destory and deform a lot of stuff but the gameworld is extremely static and most of the time the game doesn't allow you to shoot your weapon anyway.
I hope with their next game RAD can set their priorties differently and use the tech they have now for game with worthwhile gameplay.
Seriously, why do you try so hard to downplay the visual fidelity of this game? IQ is destroyed in this image? What? How about you post images of this quarter res DOF first? And make sure it's the final build, not a demo from a year ago.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The way I take it is, "Sure this looks fantastic, but in order to achieve it they had the neuter the game."
Do you have some examples? I've been looking very closely at scenes with very shallow DoF and not seeing ANYTHING even remotely similar to the 1/4 resolution artifacts visible in Killzone ShadowFall. It's extremely clean DoF.
I'd like to see which shot you're using as a talking point to see if it has changed in the final game.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
It feels like they didn't even care about adding a game to their thing.
The game constantly takes control away from you or limits control(by not allowing you to run or draw a weapon, or letting you only snipe from one position even though another would seem better, but the game doesn't let you leave your position), its seems as if the game is bothered with the players presence.
I really wonder if anyone on the dev team stood up at some point and said: "guys, we can't do it like this, we have to add some fun to this. Players don't like QTEs and not having the control over anything."
Because I feel like this should've happend during development, otherwise I think the dev team is somehow disconnected form what players really want.
Where do i downplay visuals?
I'm correcting false or unproven information, thats not downplaying.
No, i wont post any screens, i'm tired of doing that.
I've been in this route to freaking many times, when people claim stupid and incorrect stuff and i go and make comparison, and post proof, just those people change goal post and ignore it. Then in next tech thread they will repeat exactly the same they claimed before.
Its time to other to start posting examples. Where are examples of higher post processing in The Orders in comparison to Ryse?
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I'm at work.
But it was scene with werewolf and the female character was holding lamp and it was the big DoF defocus on her lamp.
Hey, John, can you confirm if POM is used in this game? How about penumbra shadows? I'm curious to know myself.
P.S. How's the article coming along? I can't wait to read it!
Look at Darkx10's post above. He's writing DF's full tech analysis, so he's a reliable source. Maybe you should ask him to post screens with DOF in the article. And to be fair, this whole thread you've been going "the IQ is destroyed!". It's true some screens are blurrier than others but most that I've seen are fine.
icecold1983
Member
seriously? like youre seriously saying the IQ on this title is only slightly better than the PS4 version of bf4? it takes 200% resolution scale + 4x msaa + 4x trssaa to surpass the orders IQ. bf4 is a shimmering, noisy, aliased mess full of in your face rendering artifacts damn near 100% of the time
All are blurry in comparison to native games. If IQ is blurry than IQ is destroyed, its really as simple as that. It doesnt mean it looks bad, it looks just worse. Its still very playable mind You, but its exactly the same case as 900p to 1080p comparisons. Clear image > blurry image, 1080p > 900p.
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Where did i mention image stability? I'm talking about quality, its almost as blurry, thats my whole point. Jesus, how many times i have to repeat that. Stop with selective reading.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It's a Sony dev thing and "Cinematic" is becoming a four-letter word as collateral damage.
Shame since Daxter and GoW were some of my favs on PSP up there with Crisis Core and Jean D'Arc. I'm baffled because those games have great gameplay and level design.
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In this case, we see an inverse-correlation between gfx and gameplay and DF would have been worse off to refrain from mentioning it.
Ok, this is hyperbole. The Order 1886 does not have the upscaling artifacts of 900p games. This "blur" that you speak of comes from the heavy post processing in the game which gives it that CGI look and I personally think it fits very well with the tone and atmosphere of the game.
icecold1983
Member
its not selective reading, image stability is surely a part of image quality. also, theres no way around it. short of brute forcing MASSIVE amounts of downsampling and hardware aa, there is always going to be a trade off between sharpness and image stability.
Can Crusher
Banned
KKRT00 is just trying to get some incomprehensibly small victory here. The IQ is shit, ok. Game still looks better than the rest.
Can't take that one thing away from RAD.
Can't take that one thing away from RAD.
CyberPunked
Member
The engine its self is nothing special when compared to UE4 or CryEngine
I think it's undeniable that the game really is very very blurry.
I personally usually prefer that to image stability issues, but it's certainly extreme. And as others have said, the only other way to get real temporal stability without blur is investing serious hardware resources.
I personally usually prefer that to image stability issues, but it's certainly extreme. And as others have said, the only other way to get real temporal stability without blur is investing serious hardware resources.
Great, now we've moved on to The Order 1886 is too blurry. Why can't we just accept that the heavy post processing fits well with the tone of the game?
I think next we'll be talking about AF issues.
Sigh, why does GamerSyde insist on putting 60fps videos up for 30fps games?
Looks that way. I finally get to see it on my TV today.
Pakoe
Gold Member
I found this from the console screenshot thread. The DoF in this shot looks amazing and doesn't cause artifacts from low res DoF.
Not trying to be a hater or something, but this just looks blurry to me. Not the DOF ofc, but the main char looks blurry as hell. If this is how the game looks, i can fully understand why there is no aliasing going in.
Nope, don't see what you're talking about. Galahad looks fine here.
At this point, agreeing to disagree seems like the best option but it's very annoying when someone makes ridiculous claims about the IQ. "Slightly better than 900p" LOL
Pakoe
Gold Member
Sure, for you it may be and i can respect that.
To me, it doesn't look sharp at all. Making the whole screen look like it's been covered in vaseline.
icecold1983
Member
gamersyde videos are the best available. the only way to get solid idea of what a game actually looks like without playing it.
StealthGoblin
Banned
It doesn't look blurry in motion.
Every screenshot I've seen more this game doesn't impress me as much as it does in motion.
icecold1983
Member
screenshots are becoming an increasingly less valid way to judge a games visual component
Just like the poster above me said, it should look better in motion. I'm sure all the heavy post processing will look amazing when the game is actually running.
BTW, can anyone else take a look at the console screenshot thread to find shots with POM if there are any?
Pakoe
Gold Member
After seeing the gamersyde vid, i can agree to this. Looks way better in motion than it does in screens.
Thanks for actually taking the time to watch the video and changing your opinion. We should more people who do this rather than just jumping to conclusions after looking at stills.
It's possible. Temporal AA can produce ghosting artifacts if the frame rate is too low/inconsistent as far as I know. And Ryse on XB1 was using SMAA TX1 IIRC.
nelsonroyale
Member
In screen shots it may seem to the game's detriment. In motion the post processing comes into its own in my opinion. i.e., it is not weakness of the visuals when viewed in motion.
Pakoe
Gold Member
Well they say hyperbole is the weapon of choice for the inarticulate. But maybe he really feels that way? Idk, just let him live lol.
And I appreciate it very much.Heh, i'm trying to stay as open minded as possible.
I don't know, he hasn't commented on the photo I posted, so I guess he's fine? /jk