Doctor Who Off-Season | Hey Missy, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind

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Bluth54

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I'm not surprised Coleman was considering leaving at Christmas, it's pretty obvious Old Clara was a possible out for her though I didn't know she was considering leaving in Death in Heaven.

I'm really glad she decided to stay another year, Coleman and Capaldi have amazing chemistry together, easily the best of any Doctor/Companion on the new series.
 
possible Season 9 spoilers
Clara will once again have a completely different personality, totally at odds with what we've seen in previous seasons. This year, she will also speak with a Geordie accent. Capaldi will be awesome, especially in the episode that reveals Handles was once Adric

I kinda think the constant writing Jenna out and the unwriting her out isn't good for her character long term. You have a build-up to brilliant exit that works well within the context of the story and gives the character an actual journey, and then that changes and you need to find another possible exit that's not as organic.

It's like Journey's End would have been a perfect send off for Tennant but we had to sit through End of Time instead.
I'm aware Journey's End has a lot of problems, but there's no comparison with the shit show that is End of Time IMO

Either way, I like Jenna. I just think her character's not been well-served by chopping and changing.
 

Goldrush

Member
They can't kick Clara out until they tackle that character arc they started in the second half of the last series. They had that string of episodes where she started to shift from wanting to be with the Doctor to wanting to be the Doctor. Was damn hyped for the conclusion to that arc when that line appeared in the preview for the finale. Too bad it turned out to be a red herring and her arc reverted back to the half-baked romance.
 
I loved Clara until they forced that god awful relationship with Danny. That relationship took focus away from what should've been the focus of the show---the relationship of Clara and the Doctor after his regeneration. And it doesn't help that Danny is awful.
 
Never really understand the issues with The End of Time, tbh. The Skeleton thing is silly and depending on your perspective the goodbye tour is a bit much, but I think it's fine. There's a great blog about why The End of Time (and Journey's End) are how they are. Here's the link to that, but also the most pertinent quote:
http://www.philipsandifer.com/2014/03/a-woman-end-of-time-part-one.html

This seems altogether more likely, and gets at something that is truly strange about The End of Time, which is that it’s not the last episode of Doctor Who. It is, after all, more than a little strange for such an auteur-identified program to continue after the departure of its auteurs. Doctor Who, for all its success, was still in effect a show created by Russell T Davies out of the ashes of a long-cancelled cult series. The idea that it would outlast him was in many regards unthinkable, save for his absolute determination that it do so. Certainly Gardner, his production partner, was not intrinsically enthused about it. For all that she put into the show, it was a job. Parting of the Ways used the recasting of its lead character as one last spectacular trick in a season of television that was all about showing the breadth of tricks available to it. But The End of Time is, by any reasonable measure, a series finale: the last bit of Doctor Who there should ever be.

This is, of course, necessary context for reading its most controversial part, the extended “Doctor’s Reward” at the end of the episode, in which the Doctor, fatally wounded and in the early stages of regeneration, proceeds to visit all of his companions at arguably tedious length. Certainly it is a bizarre sequence within the context of a show that is not being cancelled, and is wildly out of proportion to what any other Doctor has ever gotten for a regeneration. And yet when The End of Time is looked at as the series finale that, by all rights, it should have been the sequence at least makes some kind of sense. Were the Doctor actually to die, or were the series to simply shuffle off stage into the wilderness again it would be seen as a maudlin and sentimental but largely sane and understandable bit of wrapping things up. Plenty of shows go nostalgic in their final twenty minutes.

And more to the point, nothing like this had ever happened to Doctor Who, or indeed to any show: a massive hit continues with none of its cast or major creative team after a massive epic ending with the main character’s death. The decision to structure The End of Time like a series finale that happens to go on for an extra minute with a strange young chap complaining that he’s not ginger is understandable. It marks a precedent that is perhaps a mixed bag - we are left to understand eras in a much more auteur-based sense, with executive producers now seemingly given license to treat each iteration of the show as a discrete show with a series premiere and finale. But given the fact that The End of Time easily could have been a series finale, its conclusion is, in this regard, understandable.

And with it sounding like he'll do Series 9 as well and maybe Beyond, I wouldn't be surprised if Moffat's era has such a concrete sort of ending as well.
 
My problem with End of Time is that its one part really, really poorly done Master plot (not only the Skeletor stuff but also the potions, the turkey eating, the weird Naismiths) and one part maudlin self rumination.

I personally find the final farewell scene to be the least offensive part of the whole thing. There's far from anything wrong with revisiting old characters and celebrating the era. The problem lies with the fact that everything else has an air of 'You should feel sad because its never going to be this good again'. Perhaps I'm being unfair, but you'd expect a certain subtext of reassuring the audience that the show will keep going. Sure, you want to give Moffat a clean break, but you could pretty much cut out the Matt Smith stuff out at the end and pass it off as the last ever episode.

Exploring a Doctor who doesn't want to die and go through regeneration is a fantastic concept. And if you want to culminate the idea of the 10th Doctor being narcissistic then thats fine, but its needs some sort of conclusion, some resolution to show you that he's made peace. It never particularly feels like he comes to terms with it. All it needed was one scene after he saves Wilf where he states that he's turned a corner, that he wants to move on and that he's happy to do so.

The whole thing reminds me of that episode of Friends where Joey's character gets killed off in Days of Our Lives and he tried to draw out his death and avoid falling down a lift shaft while telling everyone how much he'll miss them.
 

Kurdel

Banned
The whole thing reminds me of that episode of Friends where Joey's character gets killed off in Days of Our Lives and he tried to draw out his death and avoid falling down a lift shaft while telling everyone how much he'll miss them.

Great post, agree 100%!
 

sn00zer

Member
My problem with End of Time is that its one part really, really poorly done Master plot (not only the Skeletor stuff but also the potions, the turkey eating, the weird Naismiths) and one part maudlin self rumination.

I personally find the final farewell scene to be the least offensive part of the whole thing. There's far from anything wrong with revisiting old characters and celebrating the era. The problem lies with the fact that everything else has an air of 'You should feel sad because its never going to be this good again'. Perhaps I'm being unfair, but you'd expect a certain subtext of reassuring the audience that the show will keep going. Sure, you want to give Moffat a clean break, but you could pretty much cut out the Matt Smith stuff out at the end and pass it off as the last ever episode.

Exploring a Doctor who doesn't want to die and go through regeneration is a fantastic concept. And if you want to culminate the idea of the 10th Doctor being narcissistic then thats fine, but its needs some sort of conclusion, some resolution to show you that he's made peace. It never particularly feels like he comes to terms with it. All it needed was one scene after he saves Wilf where he states that he's turned a corner, that he wants to move on and that he's happy to do so.

The whole thing reminds me of that episode of Friends where Joey's character gets killed off in Days of Our Lives and he tried to draw out his death and avoid falling down a lift shaft while telling everyone how much he'll miss them.

Oh man almost every two part episode is crap until the last 10min. Way way way too confusing, a million deus ex machina mechanics....but those endings hit like a brick. Donna's character was fucking tragic at then, but she was happy.

And I liked that he never wanted to turn. Makes him much different than most doctors who accept their death. Made it much sadder and more interesting.
 
...I just want the soundtrack to come out.

I rewatched this past season over the weekend, and while I still think Deep Breath is the weakest episode, it is still fun. Much more than what I can say about Matt's last season (minus the specials).

The wait for the OST is killing me.
Theres only so many poorly ripped versions on YouTube I can listen to, lol
 
The wait for the OST is killing me.
Theres only so many poorly ripped versions on YouTube I can listen to, lol
I'm going to the Symphonic Spectacular in a few months. I'm of two minds about whether I want the OST to come out before then so I can familiarise myself with the music in isolation, or whether I just want to be blown away by it live.
 
I'm going to the Symphonic Spectacular in a few months. I'm of two minds about whether I want the OST to come out before then so I can familiarise myself with the music in isolation, or whether I just want to be blown away by it live.

I'd love to go to that but I cant find the time. :(
The last big Who event I went to was the 50th celebrations, havent even been to the new Experience yet.

I'm hoping beyond all hope they release a special cd of the Symphonic Spectacular but I very much doubt it.
 

Ophelion

Member
I've been re-reading the AV club's reviews of this last season and it just reminds me again how great this last season really has been.

I think it would have been even more enjoyable if I hadn't been watching it beside my roommate who I only conned into watching the show with the coming of Matt Smith and, as such, was going through First Doctor Separation Anxiety.

The only episodes this last season I can, in retrospect, say I truly didn't enjoy were Robot of Sherwood and In the Forest of the Night (I'm including the Christmas special in that.) And even then, they were passable! Every one of them had good moments this last year, even if they didn't all land for me. Everything else ranged from good to great. This is probably the most satisfied I've been with Doctor who since Season 5.

Season 8 brought us innerspace dives into Daleks, Bank Robberies, Mummies on the Orient Express, Battles with two-dimensional aliens and, most importantly, it brought us Missy. It's easy to get all absorbed in picking apart how things could be better. Sometimes you forget to step back and just go, "This is actually some thoroughly good shit we're getting here, isn't it?"

Can't wait to jump back in the TARDIS. Bring it on!
 
Out of Series 8, the only ones I really didn't care for were The Caretaker and In The Forest of the Night. Every other episode I still remember having one moment that had me smiling in that way that Doctor Who just puts on my face.

It also was a weird experience for me, as this series my younger brother started watching it with me. He had no previous Experience with the show minus seeing bits and pieces of when I watched it and he walked by. It was fun to see the way that even halfway through the season he was already insisting that Capaldi was the Doctor.
 

Ophelion

Member
Out of Series 8, the only ones I really didn't care for were The Caretaker and In The Forest of the Night. Every other episode I still remember having one moment that had me smiling in that way that Doctor Who just puts on my face.

It also was a weird experience for me, as this series my younger brother started watching it with me. He had no previous Experience with the show minus seeing bits and pieces of when I watched it and he walked by. It was fun to see the way that even halfway through the season he was already insisting that Capaldi was the Doctor.

Yeah, I had a second room mate who did that with me last season! He'd kind of leered at me and my other room mate previously, but something about Capaldi clicked with him and he got sucked in. It's funny how he sees the show because he views it through the 12th Doctor's eyes it would seem.

The two of them would bicker endlessly in Clara Vs The Doctor conflicts. Interestingly, both of them agreed that The Doctor was correct in his actions in Kill the Moon. I had my popcorn all ready to go for that one and then they just agreed and shook hands. What a rip off. Want my money back.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
aJPDOg5.png
 

Blader

Member
I rather like the last 20ish minutes of The End of Time and will always maintain (until something better comes along) that the four knocks reveal is the show's single best scene: best acted, best written, best directed.

But that's preceded by an hour and a half or so of completely awful, shitty, bad writing. That Books of Saxon prologue is absolute rock bottom, and while nothing else in the two-parter is as bad, a lot of it is still really really bad: Simm's extreme overacting, Tenannt ridiculously pivoting back and forth between holding a gun at the Master or Rassilon (that this was played with as straight a face as it was is ridiculous), the immortality gate family subplot that comes and goes, the "Master Race" plot and montage of Simm in every costume the BBC owns, etc. It's all just very dumb.

I highly doubt being a companion on Doctor Who was her dream role. It's not like she would be retiring from acting, just the role she said she was going to leave (twice).

maybe it's not a childhood fantasy fulfilled like Capaldi or Tennant, but it's still a once in a lifetime job and she's having fun with it.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I rather like the last 20ish minutes of The End of Time and will always maintain (until something better comes along) that the four knocks reveal is the show's single best scene: best acted, best written, best directed.

Best scene in new Who for me is still that moment when Nine tricks Rose.
 

Trike

Member
maybe it's not a childhood fantasy fulfilled like Capaldi or Tennant, but it's still a once in a lifetime job and she's having fun with it.

That is a lot different than "dream job", not to mention that you could consider a ton of acting jobs as "once in a lifetime". So telling her to quit the job she is already having a "will she or won't she?" attitude about isn't telling her to give up her dream job (which I am going to guess is just acting professionally anyway).
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
That Books of Saxon prologue is absolute rock bottom, and while nothing else in the two-parter is as bad, a lot of it is still really really bad
The first time I watched it, I missed the beginning. Made for a much better experience.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Made it bigger so you get all the doctors, well all the single digit doctors, and I don't need to round up the last one.

w1vq2tc.png


I looked and this image would be about 10x longer before you came across a 10, 11 and 12.
 
I rather like the last 20ish minutes of The End of Time and will always maintain (until something better comes along) that the four knocks reveal is the show's single best scene: best acted, best written, best directed.

But that's preceded by an hour and a half or so of completely awful, shitty, bad writing. That Books of Saxon prologue is absolute rock bottom, and while nothing else in the two-parter is as bad, a lot of it is still really really bad: Simm's extreme overacting, Tenannt ridiculously pivoting back and forth between holding a gun at the Master or Rassilon (that this was played with as straight a face as it was is ridiculous), the immortality gate family subplot that comes and goes, the "Master Race" plot and montage of Simm in every costume the BBC owns, etc. It's all just very dumb.

See, I might just be mental or weird, because that's probably my favourite cliffhanger in the modern show. It's gloriously stupid, the Master Race line, but it's stupid in a way that's very Doctor Who to me, to be honest.

The Books of Saxon thing is dumb as fuck, obviously, though I do appreciate the way that's shot, with a very concerted effort by the Director to demonstrate the idea that even though the Doctor has a time machine, time is still linear in a sense for him and he gets back 'too late' to stop the revival - essentially sealing his own fate by going off gallivanting for ages between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time. That's not very tied to the actual method of the revival though... and it's also a terrible waste of that actress who played Lucy, who was the very best thing about The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords.

I think it's in stuff like that RTD often used to trip himself up, really; he (and Gardner) was enamoured with her performance there as much as I was, and desperately wanted her back, but there wasn't really a place for her in that story realistically.. so she ended up as she was. The story would've been better without her, really. Rather than her sabotaging him, the revival could've just gone wrong because the stupid humans trying to put the process together based on his notes, and he would've killed them for it. Instead we get her sabotaging because he wanted to make that character heroic, and it falls flat. The idea that The Master had a contingency in his ring makes sense; the fact that it might be unstable, go wrong and leave him manic and dying is also fine, and so is the fact that he knows there'd be crazy people still devoted to him at the end who he could trust to find the revival instructions (secret books!) -- it's the fact that it's so stupidly named, plus the Lucy thing, that knackers it.
 

mclem

Member
The Radio Times are running a countdown to the tenth anniversary of NuWho over the next ten days.

http://www.radiotimes.com/DoctorWho10

I suspect we might get some little exciting tidbit on the anniversary day itself. Nothing too big, but maybe a S9 casting announcement? I'd be surprised if production completely ignores it.
 

berzeli

Banned
SHOCKING NEWS:

Mark Gatiss is writing an episode for series nine, says "I’m delighted with how scary it is". I'm going to link to Den of Geek since the original source is The Telegraph and they can go fuck themselves, also the Den of Geek link has a nice round-up of stuff.

I know he isn't the most popular of writers but I've quite liked all of his episodes (eh, maybe not Victory of the Daleks) so I'm glad he is back.
 

Dalek

Member
SHOCKING NEWS:

Mark Gatiss is writing an episode for series nine, says "I’m delighted with how scary it is". I'm going to link to Den of Geek since the original source is The Telegraph and they can go fuck themselves, also the Den of Geek link has a nice round-up of stuff.

I know he isn't the most popular of writers but I've quite liked all of his episodes (eh, maybe not Victory of the Daleks) so I'm glad he is back.

I respect his love for the show-but yes, I've never been a huge fan of his episodes. Night Terrors is pretty good, and I think Knights of Sherwood is pretty funny, but not very memorable.
 

Quick

Banned
SHOCKING NEWS:

Mark Gatiss is writing an episode for series nine, says "I’m delighted with how scary it is". I'm going to link to Den of Geek since the original source is The Telegraph and they can go fuck themselves, also the Den of Geek link has a nice round-up of stuff.

I know he isn't the most popular of writers but I've quite liked all of his episodes (eh, maybe not Victory of the Daleks) so I'm glad he is back.

Shocking news.

I find his writing inoffensive for the most part. Robots of Sherwood was actually enjoyable.
 
Wish we'd get an announcement of Jamie Mathieson coming back, I want to see more of that.

I kinda just want him to figuratively drop the mic and not come back. Remember when everyone clamoured for Gaiman to write another episode? Or Moffat to be showrunner?

Relative quality of those aside, you can guarantee fandom will turn on him on a dime too. If he writes anything less than perfection then no doubt Mummy and Flatline will be negatively reevaluated. I'd rather he remained as some mythical high water mark for everyone to aspire to.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
The thing is, Mathieson already proved himself with Mummy since he wrote that in a shorter time after Moffat loved Flatline, and both episodes turned out great. NiS was Gaiman's second and it exacerbated a lot of problems. He really needed more time before tackling another DW script, he tweaked The Doctor's Wife for years.

I'm a fan of Gaiman's work but honestly I don't think he's good for TV. Necessary script changes and budget limitations always creep up on his ideas, and those don't seem to be things he's used to taking into consideration. Even with The Doctor's Wife this happened:

At a certain point, Gaiman became tired of re-writing drafts and asked Steven Moffat for help. Moffat wrote in what Gaiman called "several of [the episode's] best lines" and rapidly rewrote several scenes when budget problems harmed filming locations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctor's_Wife#Writing

Mathieson on the other hand has way more experience working with television. It makes a world of difference.

And I don't think him writing a bad episode would make people reevaluate Flatline and Mummy negatively, NiS is quite the turd and it didn't harm the love The Doctor's Wife gets. :p
 

Quick

Banned
Following up on Armando Iannucci saying he wants to write for a Doctor Who: he's spoken to Moffat.

“I’m a big fan of Doctor Who and obviously with Peter, who’s loving it, it would be nice to. I’ve spoken off and on to them but it’s a case of being able to fit something in. It’s a nice thought.

In our conversations there was an idea we had, but it may be a wee while yet before we get round to working out when it would be. Knowing I am committed for the next year or so, it’s all on hold. Let’s get back in touch when we can.”

Nothing incredibly substantial, but the idea of Capaldi and Iannucci teaming up is a nice thought.
 
So, does today's news mean Doctor Who is now undisputed as the BBC's biggest export? This actually could be great news for Who in 2016 as they seek to shore up the Top Gear hole, but will probably be bad for the BBC on the whole in the long run. This news is very relevant to Who fans, I feel.
 
So, does today's news mean Doctor Who is now undisputed as the BBC's biggest export? This actually could be great news for Who in 2016 as they seek to shore up the Top Gear hole, but will probably be bad for the BBC on the whole in the long run. This news is very relevant to Who fans, I feel.

It's certainly in the top 3, with Strictly and the Attenborough documentaries.
 

Boem

Member
So, does today's news mean Doctor Who is now undisputed as the BBC's biggest export? This actually could be great news for Who in 2016 as they seek to shore up the Top Gear hole, but will probably be bad for the BBC on the whole in the long run. This news is very relevant to Who fans, I feel.

I was thinking about this. No Top Gear (assuming Top Gear won't be back, and even if it will it won't be the powerhouse it was) means a lot less money coming in, which is bad news for a lot of the smaller (but still really great) drama series the BBC makes. Which could also mean that DW's budget might take a hit or - what I'm hoping for - they'll put more into the show hoping to make up for the loss of Top Gear. I can imagine the pressure of finally doing a movie alongside the series growing, for instance. Or a new spin off-series, or something.

All that said, the BBC will be looking for their next 'powerhouse' series, and they've really lucked out with Top Gear and Doctor Who. That kind of success is hard to replicate.

Like I said in the Clarkson-thread: time to bring back Blackadder.

Which won't happen, won't be as good as it used to be if it does, and won't make that much money in the long run, but eh. The BBC needs some high quality entertainment.
 
I'm not going to read this thread in fear that I'll be spoiled because I haven't seen season 8 yet, but I just wanted to tell GAF that I finally watched all seven seasons of the Davies/Moffat era Doctor on Netflix.

And... well...

Of course I fucking loved it!

So thanks for pushing. It really is a terrific ride.
 

hamchan

Member
So, does today's news mean Doctor Who is now undisputed as the BBC's biggest export? This actually could be great news for Who in 2016 as they seek to shore up the Top Gear hole, but will probably be bad for the BBC on the whole in the long run. This news is very relevant to Who fans, I feel.

As someone who doesn't watch much Top Gear, I feel for the Top Gear fans but am also a little bit happy that Doctor Who's position of importance has now risen as a result.

Rewatched Series 8. Liked it much more overall when binge watching it rather than thinking about it on a weekly basis. Only episode skipped was Forest ;)
 

Boem

Member
In case everyone is interested: Adventures with the Wife in Space is relaunching later today, and they're going to be focusing on the modern series this time. The site is offline at the moment but will launch very shortly: www.wifeinspace.com

For those who don't know what it is: It's an absolutely hilarious blog about an older Doctor Who fan rewatching the entire series with his non-DW fan wife. They've done the entire classic series at this point, and after a hiatus of (I think) more than a year they're finally moving on to Eccleston. You don't need to take my word for it; Moffat loves the blog too (he even wrote a foreword for their book).

I used their blog when I was watching the classic series for the first time, and it really helped me get through the rough spots. Give it a look! This blog, alongside Philip Sandifer's Tardis Eroditorum (for a more informative perspective) makes watching the classic series so much more fun.
 
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