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[Obscured]

I liked the episode, lots of table setting which was expected. I'm of the opinion that they're not pulling the switch on Mance, shame they didn't use Hinds much in the show.

I'm feeling the same way, but hope I'm wrong. They did nothing to set up that twist though, so it seems like it is gone, it ends up being more a character point for Jon with the way they are dealing with it now.

I didn't expect it, but I really liked the part with Lancel. Looking forward to the rest of this season, that quick teaser at the end got my hype going.

 

[hipsterpants]

Figured this was the place to ask:

Once I finish up watching Daredevil I'm going to finally take advantage of the HBO Go subscription my parents have and watch the whole series. What should I expect as someone that has read all the books?

 

[Kuroyume]

The Mance thing is lame because the death didn't have any effect on me. When he died in the book it was a bummer but then a shock with the later reveal. Here as a reader knowing he would live it made the death feel pointless because you know he was going to be okay. But now if this news of him actually being dead is true, it just makes you feel like you missed the impact of the actual death. It's fucking stupid. I understand everything can't be surprising to the readers but a change should be, and the way this one is working (if true) is just really bizarre. Like how else are we supposed to feel about it other than awkward? Okay, guess he died after all... Woop de doo

I guess it didn't matter anyway... They dropped the ball on that character big fucking time. And I didn't see Rome so if what you guys are saying is true and he's a great actor then they totally wasted him on this show. Here's like 90 scenes of Daeneys' bad acting and of Tyrion getting drunk but here's like 2 every season of this supposedly great actor. And I like Tyrion an all but maybe it's about time to move on with the drunken self pity for the sake of the show... I'm okay with it in the books since they're long.

 

[biosnake20]

Hopefully Kevan actually gets a good amount of screen time this year.

Figured this was the place to ask:

Once I finish up watching Daredevil I'm going to finally take advantage of the HBO Go subscription my parents have and watch the whole series. What should I expect as someone that has read all the books?

A really solid adaptation.

 

[suzu]

Figured this was the place to ask:

Once I finish up watching Daredevil I'm going to finally take advantage of the HBO Go subscription my parents have and watch the whole series. What should I expect as someone that has read all the books?

Needless to say, it's an adaptation. Try not to let the differences and omissions get you down. Enjoy!

 

[WaffleTaco]

Figured this was the place to ask:

Once I finish up watching Daredevil I'm going to finally take advantage of the HBO Go subscription my parents have and watch the whole series. What should I expect as someone that has read all the books?

Let's just say this:

Season 1- Book 1 is an almost perfect adaptation
Season 2 - Book 2 is very good, but has changes for several characters
Season 3 - Book 3 is split and ends at the red wedding, very solid season though
Season 4- Most of Book 3, and takes some plots from 4&5. Very good season
Season 5- One plot from Book 3, All plots from Books 4&5, and maybe one or two from 6, but that's a guess. This also the season where the show becomes the show and books are the books

 

[Anjelus_]

So about Maggy's prophecy... the show established that Cersei and Robert did have one son together who died young. Seems the writers forgot about that?

 

[Discotheque]

Hinds' fear betraying the brave face he put on when snow said they'll burn him further proves he was the best actor in the series imo

Gonna be sad to see Mance gone

 

[XAL]

So about Maggy's prophecy... the show established that Cersei and Robert did have one son together who died young. Seems the writers forgot about that?

I always thought that Cersei killed the baby once she realized it wasn't Jaime's.

 

[Anjelus_]

I always thought that Cersei killed the baby once she realized it wasn't Jaime's.

There's... absolutely no basis for thinking that based on what the show presents us???

 

[Jigorath]

I always thought that Cersei killed the baby once she realized it wasn't Jaime's.

Cersei would never murder one of her own children, even if it was Robert's.

 

[Ratrat]

Cersei would never murder one of her own children, even if it was Robert's.

She would just eat them.

But did you miss Blackwater or something?

 

[nelsonroyale]

The Mance thing is lame because the death didn't have any effect on me. When he died in the book it was a bummer but then a shock with the later reveal. Here as a reader knowing he would live it made the death feel pointless because you know he was going to be okay. But now if this news of him actually being dead is true, it just makes you feel like you missed the impact of the actual death. It's fucking stupid. I understand everything can't be surprising to the readers but a change should be, and the way this one is working (if true) is just really bizarre. Like how else are we supposed to feel about it other than awkward? Okay, guess he died after all... Woop de doo

I guess it didn't matter anyway... They dropped the ball on that character big fucking time. And I didn't see Rome so if what you guys are saying is true and he's a great actor then they totally wasted him on this show. Here's like 90 scenes of Daeneys' bad acting and of Tyrion getting drunk but here's like 2 every season of this supposedly great actor. And I like Tyrion an all but maybe it's about time to move on with the drunken self pity for the sake of the show... I'm okay with it in the books since they're long.

Yeah...the actor portraying Mance did not fit the role at all in my opinion. This was supposed to be the man who united hundreds of warring clans? He didn't recieve much characterisation either in the books, but he did have a bit of a mysterious air about him.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah...the actor portraying Mance did not fit the role at all in my opinion. This was supposed to be the man who united hundreds of warring clans? He didn't recieve much characterisation either in the books, but he did have a bit of a mysterious air about him.

I think he was believable as a leader, but he was a different character from the book Mance who could assume the role of a bard.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I wasn't really feeling that one. It seemed kind of...tepid for a premiere. Like nothing of consequence happened, like we merely checked in with the characters and nothing more. Eh.

I also hope Mance isn't really dead - Ciarán Hinds is a very good actor and I'd like to see the show actually utilize his talents before getting rid of him. As it stands, I didn't feel anything at all when he died. A poor way to end the season premiere.

Well, that's what I mean. If he's a minor character in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if he lives or dies. So he can die in the show but be alive and happy by the end in the books. Thus, his fate in the show isn't really tied to the books.

Hm, I see what you're saying now. I hope you're right.

Jaime is totally gonna die in the books after he kills Cersei. He's gonna be killed by Moon Boy for all i know.

Patchface will drown him :O

 

[Jigorath]

She would just eat them.

But did you miss Blackwater or something?

She thought he was going to be beheaded by Stannis. It was a mercy killing(from her point of view). Big difference from murdering her kid just because his dad isn't his also his uncle.

 

[Ratrat]

She thought he was going to be beheaded by Stannis. It was a mercy killing(from her point of view). Big difference from murdering her kid just because his dad isn't his also his uncle.

Was it also out of mercy when she was going to expose herself and in turn Tommen, just so she can keep Margaery's hands off him? She is not right in the head.

 

[Jigorath]

Was it also out of mercy when she was going to expose herself and in turn Tommen, just so she can keep Margaery's hands off him? She is not right in the head.

Eh? Whatever. She crazy.

 

[NeoGiff]

Is Mance the new Stoneheart, then? Honestly, they couldn't have made it any more obvious that the real Mance was killed.

I also loved Dillane's reaction when Jon kneels before him. He actually observes the kneel for a second and processes it before making a gesture for Jon to rise, with the least amount of movement possible. He has absolutely nailed Stannis.

 

[Malreyn]

Figured this was the place to ask:

Once I finish up watching Daredevil I'm going to finally take advantage of the HBO Go subscription my parents have and watch the whole series. What should I expect as someone that has read all the books?

Expect a lot of downplay of sorcery, even though the show does demonstrate its existence.

 

[pieatorium]

I wasn't really feeling that one. It seemed kind of...tepid for a premiere. Like nothing of consequence happened, like we merely checked in with the characters and nothing more. Eh.

.

Yeah totally agree with it being tepid.

it wasn't even that nothing of consequences happened, Mance execution and intervention of Jon, introduction of harpy's/unrest in mereen.

Problem is that Mance never got much development and was basically just gruff grizzled old man No.35. You could interchange him with shows Blackfish and it would be less noticeable than the Daario swap.

harpy stuff is just set up for future like most of the rest of the episode but at least it has some kind of looming danger associated.

 

[Mxrz]

Woo. I enjoyed it.

Mance is probably dead. Pulling the switch would be really awkward. Unless he gets the Red-God revival, but that would be clunky. No baby, no Val, so outside of the Boltan stuff Mance wouldn't have much to do, would he? Being a reputation boost for Jon will probably play into it. But its still a shame to see one of the best actors leave.

No idea why parts of the internet are cheering on Stannis. He's an even worse leader than Daenerys.

 

[eot]

Varys outright stating his intentions kinda bugged me, I get why they did it but it's not in his character to talk like that even to Tyrion IMO.

Also, did Cercei "know" Jaime set Tyrion free in the books? I can't remember but I'm leaning towards no.

 

[Basileus777]

Varys outright stating his intentions kinda bugged me, I get why they did it but it's not in his character to talk like that even to Tyrion IMO.

Also, did Cercei "know" Jaime set Tyrion free in the books? I can't remember but I'm leaning towards no.

It's in character for show Varys who has been a bit more open and less scummy than his book counterpart.

 

[Big-E]

Woo. I enjoyed it.

Mance is probably dead. Pulling the switch would be really awkward. Unless he gets the Red-God revival, but that would be clunky. No baby, no Val, so outside of the Boltan stuff Mance wouldn't have much to do, would he? Being a reputation boost for Jon will probably play into it. But its still a shame to see one of the best actors leave.

No idea why parts of the internet are cheering on Stannis. He's an even worse leader than Daenerys.

Stannis is the one true King and it is his to rule by blood. Stannis, after his fuck around doing nothing after the Blackwater, is the only one who is trying to save the people and the kingdom. Going North may have been his only option , but he was the only one to answer the call.

 

[Kain]

Also, did Cercei "know" Jaime set Tyrion free in the books? I can't remember but I'm leaning towards no.

Nope, she suspects Varys but knows nothing about Jaime, it bugged me too. Jaime with his constant puppy face of late is not cool either.

Mance's end was good but the mistreatment of his character has been bollocks. Why cast Hinds for this? What the hell.

Also I don't like one bit what they are implying with Sansa and LF

Spoiler

going to the west? So to Winterfell to the Boltons? I guess the summaries were right, and I think this might be the stupidest plot line of the entire series so far. Thay had fierce competition but oh boy this is gonna suck.

Stan the man seems to have gained confidence, and Davos at the wall is a welcome sight. I hope we get at least one season of awesome Stannis.

The rest... ok I guess. I'm finding the more they deviate from the books the less I like the show. Call me purist or something I guess...

 

[firehawk12]

No idea why parts of the internet are cheering on Stannis. He's an even worse leader than Daenerys.

It's like a real election. All the leaders are terrible in their own way.

You're just choosing the best of the worst at that point.

 

[TripOpt55]

It was a solid premiere, but it did feel like we merely checked in on things with a few characters (not the first time the show has done this by any means, but it is still noticeable when it does). Brienne/Pod, Sansa/Littlefinger, and Loras seemed the worst offenders, but even bits that got more time didn't feel like they quite got going. Still I give the first one a bit of a pass as with so many characters/storylines on this show it can be tough to get it rolling right away.

I thought the flashback was well-done. Young Cersei really felt like a little Cersei to me, so they did a good job there. I think once I got beyond this being an odd choice for the first flashback it seemed better. I don't think the scenes with her now really worked that great with the flashback per se, but I imagine after the season plays out as a whole it will fit nicely as an opening scene.

Tyrion and Varys' scenes were my favorite. I can't wait for them to meet Dany (I'm one of those weirdo book readers who likes Dany!). The stuff with Jon and Stannis was good too. I am not sure what to make of the Mance death either. As people have mentioned, he was really underutilized on the show which is a bummer. I guess him not switching should have been expected in the show (unless he did, but I don't think so), but I love those kind of moves in the books and definitely miss them here at times.

Was hoping to see Dorne this week! I guess I have to wait another week. Looking forward to checking in with Arya again too. Even a somewhat lackluster ep like this, I still get a kick out of.

 

[Jigorath]

Woo. I enjoyed it.

Mance is probably dead. Pulling the switch would be really awkward. Unless he gets the Red-God revival, but that would be clunky. No baby, no Val, so outside of the Boltan stuff Mance wouldn't have much to do, would he? Being a reputation boost for Jon will probably play into it. But its still a shame to see one of the best actors leave.

No idea why parts of the internet are cheering on Stannis. He's an even worse leader than Daenerys.

Stannis is the little freaking engine that could. By all accounts he should have been the first of the Five Kings to go down. He had no army, nobody liked him, nobody wanted him to be king, nobody supported his (rightful) claim. His only allies were a crazy witch and an onion smuggler. And yet despite all that, he's still trucking along. Fighting for a country that doesn't want him. He was the only one who answered the call of Night's Watch and came to their aid. If it wasn't for Stannis there would have been a hundred thousand wildlings tearing through Westeros. Stannis saved the kingdom that day. And most people didn't even notice. Story of his life.

 

[NeoGiff]

I love that Cersei's arc this season opened with her going on a walk towards the Sept of Baelor, surrounded by observers.

Very thematically appropriate, considering what her final scene will likely be.

 

[TripOpt55]

I love that Cersei's arc this season opened with her going on a walk towards the Sept of Baelor, surrounded by observers.

Very thematically appropriate, considering what her final scene will likely be.

Yeah that was excellent.

 

[Kain]

Speaking of Cersei, do you think we'll get the fight between her and Jaime? They certainly didn't have it this episode. I want the letter burning scene, even if it is in Dorne.

Also glad to see Kevan back.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

Kind of feels like Mance is actually dead, but who knows. Shame they didn't use the actor more, though. And I loved Jon shooting him.

Wonder if Aegon is happening. With the way Varys immediately focused their direction on Dany, gotta wonder if maybe he was cut. Or perhaps he's just plan B if she ends up crazy. I think that's how it was in the book but I barely remember ADWD. Guess I'm just in it for the ride!

 

[Anjelus_]

Mance is really dead. Aegon is out.

There's no sense worrying about "book spoilers," the show is diverging so much it's impossible to make any judgment on the books from it. Mance and for certain Aegon both have important roles to play still. Not to mention Lady Stoneheart.

Also I don't like the changes to Stannis' character. "Bend the knee or die?" There shouldn't be any question of Mance's death sentence, he deserted from the Night's Watch. I wouldn't mind them changing Stannis for the show, but they did include him punishing Davos for smuggling. I hate this kind of schizo storytelling where people have characteristics from both mediums and they often contradict each other.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Kit's acting has improved quite a lot. I'm starting to like the guy now.

 

[Fitts]

So this is the place for spoilers, then? Melisandre gets *hotter every season and eclipses every other woman on the show. What kind of witchcraft...

*See what I did there?

 

[NeoGiff]

Mance is really dead. Aegon is out.

There's no sense worrying about "book spoilers," the show is diverging so much it's impossible to make any judgment on the books from it. Mance and for certain Aegon both have important roles to play still. Not to mention Lady Stoneheart.

Also I don't like the changes to Stannis' character. "Bend the knee or die?" There shouldn't be any question of Mance's death sentence, he deserted from the Night's Watch. I wouldn't mind them changing Stannis for the show, but they did include him punishing Davos for smuggling. I hate this kind of schizo storytelling where people have characteristics from both mediums and they often contradict each other.

I'm thinking it's the start of the Stannis turnaround. There will be little hints throughout the season, culminating in the "cart before the horse" monologue. He's still the same Stannis, but becoming more accommodating after spending some time with Jon. It's not so much a change as making something more organic an readily apparent in the visual medium.

You actually quoted him incorrectly, which is significant. The fact that his actual words to Mance were "Kneel and live" are telling on their own. In previous seasons, his dialogue would never have had the optimistic slant it did here.

 

[Kain]

So this is the place for spoilers, then? Melisandre gets *hotter every season and eclipses every other woman on the show. What kind of witchcraft...

*See what I did there?

Yes, YES. Van Houten is getting hotter every day hhnnnnggggg

 

[Mxrz]

I feel like Stannis just went North because he had no other option. Worse than burning people, shadow babies, killing his brother, and all that - Dude faked his fiery prophecy sword. Narrative causality gonna be all over him.

 

[eot]

No mention of the valonqar, unless the flashback is incomplete.

I wonder how they'd play that in the show though

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar* shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you"

*valonqar means little brother in high valyrian

If they had it but didn't use the word valonqar people would probably be more upset.

 

[Atraveller]

I wonder how they'd play that in the show though

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar* shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you"

*valonqar means little brother in high valyrian

If they had it but didn't use the word valonqar people would probably be more upset.

*translator's note: valonqar means little brother* lol

The word would be brought up while Cersei may or may not be present, and its meaning will get explained before we get to the prophecy's part.

 

[Basileus777]

*translator's note: valonqar means little brother* lol

The word would be brought up while Cersei may or may not be present, and its meaning will get explained before we get to the prophecy's part.

They would never have put valonqar in the show. If that part of the prophesy hadn't been cut they would have used a different word instead. But this is probably one of the main reasons it's gone.

 

[hendersonhank]

There's no reason whatsoever to use the word "valonqar" rather than just say "little brother".

 

[kirblar]

There's no reason whatsoever to use the word "valonqar" rather than just say "little brother".

Other than the entire meaning of the sentence changing, sure.

The line in the books is intentionally worded like that to be a "lost in translation" moment that is up for interpretation - switching in "little brother" ends up explicitly meaning Tyrion.

 

[hendersonhank]

Other than the entire meaning of the sentence changing, sure.

The line in the books is intentionally worded like that to be a "lost in translation" moment that is up for interpretation - switching in "little brother" ends up explicitly meaning Tyrion.

No, that would be "YOUR little brother". "Little brother" could still mean whoever. If valonqar means "little brother" than the meaning of the sentence doesn't change one iota from "the valonqar will kill you" to "the little brother will kill you".

 

[Kerned]

No, that would be "YOUR little brother". "Little brother" could still mean whoever. If valonqar means "little brother" than the meaning of the sentence doesn't change one iota from "the valonqar will kill you" to "the little brother will kill you".

Exactly. It's not about the vagueness of the translation, it's about the vagueness of the prophecy in general.

 

[Jigorath]

I feel like Stannis just went North because he had no other option.

That doesn't mean he wasn't doing a good thing. If it wasn't for Stannis, the Night's Watch would have fallen, and the wildings would have torn Westeros apart. He's done more for the Seven Kingdoms then any of the current contenders for the throne.

 

[TTG]

I stumble in barely remembering anything about anything and you are engaged in a debate over high Valyrian? Damn.

There was a rather conspicuous absence or two from tonight's episode. One, where's Jorah? I would have expected at least an eye roll or some bristling as it were at the return of the boy toy, is he away on a knight errant or something? Since Varys is to purportedly accompany Tyrion, I wonder if the Jorah/Tyrion companionship bit is scrapped. Or maybe Varys has to scurry back to King's Landing? I doubt they flat out kill him on the way. Two, where's the crippled Stark boy? Brianne had an appearance doing basically nothing, but nothing from the world of the woodland creatures and crows? Not even in the preview for the next week's episode.

I thought the premier was like a 7/10. It felt they were mostly reintroducing everyone and establishing where things stand. I hope there are some real surprises in store this season.

 

[m_shortpants]

I stumble in barely remembering anything about anything and you are engaged in a debate over high Valyrian? Damn.

There was a rather conspicuous absence or two from tonight's episode. One, where's Jorah? I would have expected at least an eye roll or some bristling as it were at the return of the boy toy, is he away on a knight errant or something? Since Varys is to purportedly accompany Tyrion, I wonder if the Jorah/Tyrion companionship bit is scrapped. Or maybe Varys has to scurry back to King's Landing? I doubt they flat out kill him on the way. Two, where's the crippled Stark boy? Brianne had an appearance doing basically nothing, but nothing from the world of the woodland creatures and crows? Not even in the preview for the next week's episode.

I thought the premier was like a 7/10. It felt they were mostly reintroducing everyone and establishing where things stand. I hope there are some real surprises in store this season.

Bran isn't going to be in this season I believe.

 

[jett]

This thread seems to be less active than previous years, the other one is actually getting more posts. Is the fear of the show spoiling the books real?