read the OP
Wut? How did you came into this conclusion? Again, this is a thing because Bethesda pushed for it and allowed. Workshop itens will not be paid for of the developer doesnt allow it.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Not to mention mods that recommend (or even require) other mods so that they'll work properly.
Agreed.
...
I wonder if the next Fallout/Elder Scrolls will not support third party mods, only Steam Workshop. A bit like what Starcraft 2's system does (which is part of the reason SC2's modding scene is nowhere near Warcraft 3 levels).
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Yeah this was another concern. Modders are famous for fixing broken games. Now if those modders want to profit they are indirectly supporting the IP holder of the broken game (if they choose to sell through steamworks), giving even less incentive for quality control.
Not to mention everything being based upon the game creators work and engine / licences, as well as the costs associated with Valve and Steam for the services being used and cost of actually issuing payments out / upkeep.
I get the impression that the ideal pricing that the market will settle on may actually be incredibly low but selling in very large amounts. It will be interesting to see where the market actually goes over time. The first months will be a mess I'm sure
zephervack
Member
I havent read all the legal stuff, but can you literally change a value in an ini or cfg file and charge money for that?
How do they handle stuff like that?
How do they handle stuff like that?
LurkerPrime
Member
If the next Bethesda game launches broken while having premium mods available, my cyncisim will ascend to Super Saiyan.
And - I overlooked this before - the money split is ridiculous, only serving to further fuel my cynical view of this news.
And - I overlooked this before - the money split is ridiculous, only serving to further fuel my cynical view of this news.
Chezzymann
Member
If this becomes the standard I will never mod my games again. I'm already paying enough for the game itself, I don't want to pay even more for each individual mod, especially taking into account how many mods I use. I get its supporting the modders but still.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Are we going to see the rise of mod piracy?
That's... a weird concept to think about, mod piracy.
That's... a weird concept to think about, mod piracy.
24 hour refund and letting the market short it out is my guess.
Empty Space
Member
It seems like at least some of the mods support a pay what you want model, but have a minimum price. I'm all for people getting paid for their hard work, but I think its a little sinister that something like Wet and Cold that's been around forever gets a major update and its only available for money. There's also so many weird caveats with certain mods that I often have to do a bit of work to get them up in running in a complicated mod setup. Unless its really big complete overhaul mod like SkyRe, Project Nevada, etc. it just does not seem worth paying for these kind of small things up front. Its a bit hyperbolic, but it feels like micro-transactions are going to creep into the mod scene and ruin it.
After seeing what the Steam community will spend on hats and cosmetic DLC, I'm not really confident in their ability to make purchasing decisions that align with my own ideas of what's worth paying for. After all, it's not like market forces have done a good job of pushing out all of the DRM pay to win day one DLC preorder greedy bullshit of the AAA game industry.
But I guess we'll find out.
But I guess we'll find out.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
The negative feedback would be ENORMOUS. Even now Workshop isn't a patch on the Nexus, let alone the hundreds of thousands of mods found elsewhere.
Bethesda isn't stupid*. Attempting to go workshop-only for Fallout 4 or whatever would cost them dearly. There is no way they'd recoup the lost sales through this paid mod deal.
Pay for mods?
How many copies has Garry's Mod sold again?
Same with me pretty much.
I wonder what happens in the future when a mod creator stops supporting a paid mod and then an update breaks it. Is it just sorry out of luck for everyone that bought it.
Why would anyone pay for that? And even more so, pay for it and not demand a refund within 24 hours.
I feel like in most "horror" scenarios, people fail to take into account that a successful business requires both someone to offer something for sale, and someone to buy it. People will only buy what they perceive to have sufficient value.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Is it even technically a mod? It's completely standalone isn't it?
Though to answer your question, it sold over 6 million as of last year.
based on the initial outrage it looks like very few people perceive any monetary value in mods, friend
It seems Valve just disabled Workshop comments on Skyrim mods due to the barrage of "Fuck DLC" etc. comments.
AFAIK it required a Source game installed and there weren't any free available before Valve made TF2 free.
AFAIK it required a Source game installed and there weren't any free available before Valve made TF2 free.
Maybe this kind of thing needs careful regulation, or Vale needs to watch it closely to make sure the market doesn't go to shit.
There are definitely some massive total conversions out there that are probably worth money. Some of these larger mods contain as much original content as at least a DLC pack, if not a full game. Everybody around here also knows some of the most influential PC games started out as mods. Hopefully this helps speed the production of future mods.
But yeah, something needs to happen to discourage people charging for the much smaller mods or to keep the perceived value from plummeting.
There are definitely some massive total conversions out there that are probably worth money. Some of these larger mods contain as much original content as at least a DLC pack, if not a full game. Everybody around here also knows some of the most influential PC games started out as mods. Hopefully this helps speed the production of future mods.
But yeah, something needs to happen to discourage people charging for the much smaller mods or to keep the perceived value from plummeting.
Ah but a single piece of user generated content that gives Bethesda money is arguably more valuable than 100 mods that don't do that.
Naturally i'm ignoring the fact mods do sell games... But i figure there will be a point when there will be enough sold user generated content it won't matter anymore.
No, i am not optimistic about this. Not at all.
Netherscourge
Banned
The more I think about this, the worse I feel about it.
YES, I want original content creators to be able to make money off their work - but modding is building on someone ELSE'S work.
There are several issues that could open a can of worms that could lead to the end of open-modding as we know it.
Whenever MONEY is attached to something fun and free, it tends to ruin it. In this case, we're talking about people making mods for games that are copyright protected.
What is the precedent for a modder to make money DIRECTLY off a game they do not own the intellectual rights to, nor do they have permission or a contract to make content for, much less PROFIT from? When it's made for FREE, it's no big deal. But when you start CHARGING for it, the rights' owners are probably going to want a cut themselves.
And Valve facilitating this and profiting from it as a 3rd party distributor kinda/sorta makes it a guaranteed target for legal problems.
---My biggest fear is that this will draw unwanted attention and scrutiny to the FREE modding community (...like the Iron Man/Hulk mods for various games) and even though no money is being made on the mods, the rights' owners will claim infringement anyway and shut EVERYTHING down.
Valve might want to rethink this. One of the big attractions to PC gaming is open-modding. If you jeopardize that, you have one less MAJOR reason to get into PC gaming in the first place.
YES, I want original content creators to be able to make money off their work - but modding is building on someone ELSE'S work.
There are several issues that could open a can of worms that could lead to the end of open-modding as we know it.
Whenever MONEY is attached to something fun and free, it tends to ruin it. In this case, we're talking about people making mods for games that are copyright protected.
What is the precedent for a modder to make money DIRECTLY off a game they do not own the intellectual rights to, nor do they have permission or a contract to make content for, much less PROFIT from? When it's made for FREE, it's no big deal. But when you start CHARGING for it, the rights' owners are probably going to want a cut themselves.
And Valve facilitating this and profiting from it as a 3rd party distributor kinda/sorta makes it a guaranteed target for legal problems.
---My biggest fear is that this will draw unwanted attention and scrutiny to the FREE modding community (...like the Iron Man/Hulk mods for various games) and even though no money is being made on the mods, the rights' owners will claim infringement anyway and shut EVERYTHING down.
Valve might want to rethink this. One of the big attractions to PC gaming is open-modding. If you jeopardize that, you have one less MAJOR reason to get into PC gaming in the first place.
This will be interesting. I do believe people should be paid for their work but honestly, I don't think I would pay for a mod so I guess that might lock me out of some of the bigger mods which I guess is something I'll have to live with. Also, 25% cut for modders is ridiculous. It makes it feel like Valve/Bethesda are taking advantage of content creators.
There will always be someone out there wanting to make a name for themselves or wanting to undercut the next person.
A game fix that is trivial, will almost assuredly be dragged down to being free, since no one will pay for something that someone else is will to put out there at no cost - and that person gets the recognition / following.
When it comes to larger and more intricate mods, things that actually include their own assets and properties, perhaps are regularly evolving modes / maps etc, are far less likely to be free when the author puts them up at a price. You essentially have the choice of piracy outside (with the same downsides and upsides as usual) or their price on the workshop.
The assumption is that the market will force people to charge the appropriate amount for the better sales / content, and competition will push pricing in the right directions. Free content will always be there and be produced by someone, and likely be the most popular. However there will likely be larger projects that gain popularity overtime, that are paid for.
If it goes like that, it will be exciting, but the next months will be crap as the market goes all over the place. With no curation and pricing structure from Valve or Bethesda, it will take time for things to settle down
And this is an example of something I would buy - at the right price
That1BlackGuy
Member
Oh absolutely, donations are not applicable to all types of projects I was more so speaking from my personal experience. If a modder wants the option of a p2p funded project and it's something they think their followers would be receptive to, then by all means take that route.
All development is working off of others work. All development is derivative. Nobody reinvents the wheel every time.
Creating a mod is months and months of hard work. People should be paid for their work.
Netherscourge
Banned
Yea, but could the developer also not allow free mods?
And can the developer demand a portion of the mod sales?
(I haven't read the whole FAQ yet, so I'm sorta of piecemealing this)
(also - not so much the modding JUST in Steam Workshop, but rather the open-modding that isn't directly supported by developers, but isn't actively pursued/shut down due to rights permissions.)
SteveWinwood
Member
they can charge more than them if they feel their mod is worth that
25% is standard right now for valve
i mean those people can just go unpaid for their hard work if they want
and remember where we are without a game to mod or a platform to sell it on
You clearly have more confidence in the ability of your average Skyrim player to make wise, informed purchasing decisions than I do.
Lol just read it before commenting. What are you hoping to accomplish here?
Obviously it's 75% split between Valve and Bethesda.
This isn't just Valve benefitting from it; Bethesda will be getting their cut (that's why the 25% percentage). It's a legal can of worms yes, but only for the creators themselves. It doesn't set a precedent either since it's Bethesda specifically allowing only Workshop transaction, any other mods for any other games will still have to be non-profit if the developers so wish. Some racing car games have supported paid mods for a long time however, and it hasn't been a problem in the least; on the contrary we've seen very professional quality mods by professional people for a decent price as well as free modifications, some near the same quality.
Basileus777
Member
The 25% cut makes this feel really gross.
This gives those who make mods more incentive to make them. This lets content creators get paid for their work.
This is great for modding.
SteveWinwood
Member
I think it's funny that all the people I recognize as creators here on gaf are 100% on board for this.
And then tons of people are just yelling nonsense, and not even reading the q&a.
And then tons of people are just yelling nonsense, and not even reading the q&a.
Yeah, this just isn't sitting well with me. I looked at my mod lists for Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, and all I see is how much it could've cost me to download all of them if they were pay-to-download.
This is just gonna kill enthusiasm for the mod community, and those looking to try it out. And I imagine DMCA is gonna turn it into a huge clusterfuck.
This is just gonna kill enthusiasm for the mod community, and those looking to try it out. And I imagine DMCA is gonna turn it into a huge clusterfuck.
CecilRousso
Member
The cynical part of me sees this as Bethesda rewarding the modding community and all PC owners of Skyrim for helping to sell the game for four years, by trying to get a cut of what's alwas been free.
I have no problem with paying for quality mods, but this stinks of micro-transasctions.
I have no problem with paying for quality mods, but this stinks of micro-transasctions.
...um.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
This is gross.
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