Being bad at fighting games is the single most frustrating thing in my gaming history

One tip to beginner is to keep in mind that don't get caught up on combos. A solid fundamental, eg; learning how to block(most important), spacing, your regular move set etc. Are more important. Having good basic fundamental will get you a long way. People like jwong have very solid fundamentals that's why he can pick up most fighting game and be good at them.
 
Try practicing chunking. You are looking at the combo too large your brain will drive you made. It's like a phone number it's 10 numbers, the brain can struggle but you chunk it into 3 numbers for area code 3 other numbers than the 4 last numbers and your brain puts it into 3 chunk 3 chunk and 4 end. So for that 1P+K then just use the stick the do the Halg circle forward then finish the other part of the circle all in one motion. Then you just did a Izuna

There isn't much to "chunk" when the entire move/throw-combo is that one move.

Stun->Throw(Combo)->Throw(Combo)->Throw (finish)

I can get up to the circle, but the circle destroys me. That's supposed to be "easy" in DOA.

Then you start to get dial-a-combos like 4P+K.5PP.2K that does my head in. For DOA it's similar with other fighters where even the basic combos are impossible to pull off for me. Meanwhile, I can just spam normals and special moves (listed on the movelist) with no issues against the AI.
 
I was exaggerating to make a point, but if you want to limit it to strictly gaming, let me know when you become a professional Starcraft player in Korea just from practice and experience and I'll believe what you say.

The Korean SC player analogy is probably a good one here, because those SC pro players are doing 300-400+ things with their mouse every minute. You have a train a lot to become a pro SC player and that's where practice and experience come in, but if anyone could do it, the pros in Korea wouldn't make the bank they do.

My point is that fighting games require a certain amount of natural talent and ability, especially with regards to reflexes and ability to perform complicated finger movements perfectly with exactly the right timing. If anyone could do it, the FGC would be a lot larger than it is today.

Look, as I get older, I realize that there are things that I am never going to be able to do. I'm too old and out of shape to ever be an astronaut. I'm too bald to ever be a hair model. My feet are too big to ever be a ballerina or a tap dancer. I'm never going to be a rock star, a professional hockey player, a pornog star, or any number of professions that require more than just a can-do attitude to excel in.

However, because I have all my fingers, a functioning brain, and don't mind getting the shit beat out of me by better players, it is conceivable that with enough practice and training, I could win an EVO one day.

That's what makes fighting games great. When I lose in a fighting game, it's not because my fingers were too slow, or my stick was cheaper than my opponent's, it's because I wasn't good enough, and the other guy was better. What's the solution to this problem? Get better. How do you get better? Practice.

Those Korean SC2 pros weren't born with any extra appendages that help them play SC2. They literally got to where they are from practicing 15+ hours a day, seven days a week in quasi-bootcamps. Boxer wasn't playing BW in the womb, his success is due to him playing and practicing and studying and basically doing nothing but living Starcraft for his entire professional career.

I see this defeatist attitude of "oh well I'm just not good at fighting games and that's why I don't play them" and it honestly boggles my mind. It's probably the one genre where player skill matters more than anything, and people completely write themselves off from ever playing them because they require a bit of hard work. Yes, 1-frame links are hard. Yes, reading incoming mix ups can be hard. Yes, never winning even one round in your local ranbat week after week can be morale kryptonite. But the people who can do these things aren't any different from you. They just want it more.

But, if having to actually practice and try to do well at a videogame bothers you, I guess there's always Idolmaster.
 
"The only difference between you and LeBron James is practice and experience."

Come on people, do you really believe the stuff you say?
That is always my response to the people who say "Any fool off the street can get top 8 at evo" It's equally as outlandish as the previous statement.

Why do so many people equate knowing combos with knowing how to play?
Depends on character. Like say if you are play Ibuki or Misty, to do the damage you must of course get the hit and confirms and then do the combo to do their damage. On the other side if you play a brick type character it;s all spacing and footsies where you get the 3 hits you need to set up for your next go around. Of course combos are not the be and end all but it's maximizing your damage. The less time you have fighting due to great combos the less time you have to make inevitable mistakes. Also combos are very visible indicators of skill to the untrained eye. The footsies and other things are not obvious.

One tip to beginner is to keep in mind that don't get caught up on combos. A solid fundamental, eg; learning how to block(most important), spacing, your regular move set etc. Are more important. Having good basic fundamental will get you a long way. People like jwong have very solid fundamentals that's why he can pick up most fighting game and be good at them.
Fundamentals is what EVERY multidisciplinary master has be it Ryan Hart, Justin, Chris G or Tokido they all have the best of fundamentals because that makes them do less mistakes and bait people better where if they don't know all the combos it won't matter. However that is the hardest skill to learn. Very few people can teach you how to make it. Also Justin's fundamentals have gotten to that put because he played the old school new york lame style where you HAVE to have good fundamentals.
 
That is always my response to the people who say "Any fool off the street can get top 8 at evo" It's equally as outlandish as the previous statement.

Any fool off the street CAN get top 8 at evo, provided they practice a lot, compete in a lot of other tournaments, and get lucky with bracketing.
 
Nah. Anyone can train their hands. I've never encountered any pro that doesn't spend tons of time training up and grinding out a ton of situations in training mode etc. Any that say otherwise are lying.

Alright, so you'll never be #1 in the world. You can still be good.

I'm very good at most games but I've always found that there's somebody better. You won't be winning EVO anytime soon so it's worthless to even start?

And the players that are didn't get there from some crazy natural talent alone. If you think someone like Luffy didn't take the time and the practice to see what happens when every other fighter in the game comes at him from every angle with every move before he had responses for all those scenarios, you're crazy.

Are my posts not clear enough or something?

What I'm saying is you need both talent/ability and practice/experience. You can't get by with just one or the other. This is literally true for everything in life.

You know who I think are crazy, are the people who think they are good at games because they practiced a lot. Yeah, you had to practice a lot. Guess what, so did everyone else. Do you not understand that everyone practices a lot, but only some people will ever be any good?

This effect is most observable in Starcraft and fighting games because of the very specific talents and abilities they stress. With these particular genres of games and probably a few others like MOBAs (someone mentioned Luffy was a DOTA2 player) and FPS titles like Quake, there is absolutely a hard skill ceiling that you can never exceed because of your own natural talents.

The LeBron James analogy was a bad one, so let's consider Lionel Messi instead. Messi is completely average in every traditional metric used to measure a professional athlete. He's only 5 feet 7 inches tall. His body has a completely average build. He's not some freakish specimen of humanity, in fact he was born with a growth hormone deficiency which would have stunted his growth if it had not been noticed from an early age that he had some superhuman ability to control a ball with his feet that he was born with. No amount of practice or experience will make you Lionel Messi. He was born with that ability. It's true that Messi has long had a reputation for being a hard worker who trains a lot, but he didn't become (probably) the greatest who ever lived by practice and experience alone. He was born with an unsurpassed natural talent that we may never see again in our lifetimes.

The video gamer also has abilities he or she was born with, and it happens they have channeled it into playing games. The vast majority of people on Earth will never be good at games no matter how much practice or experience they put into it. And of those people, only a relatively small number will ever have the very specific skills and ability to be good at Starcraft, fighting games, Quake, or DOTA2.

I hope I've made my post clear enough this time, if you still can't understand what I'm talking about then I can't help you anymore.
 
Are my posts not clear enough or something?

What I'm saying is you need both talent/ability and practice/experience. You can't get by with just one or the other. This is literally true for everything in life.

You know who I think are crazy, are the people who think they are good at games because they practiced a lot. Yeah, you had to practice a lot. Guess what, so did everyone else. Do you not understand that everyone practices a lot, but only some people will ever be any good?

This effect is most observable in Starcraft and fighting games because of the very specific talents and abilities they stress. With these particular genres of games and probably a few others like MOBAs (someone mentioned Luffy was a DOTA2 player) and FPS titles like Quake, there is absolutely a hard skill ceiling that you can never exceed because of your own natural talents.

The LeBron James analogy was a bad one, so let's consider Lionel Messi instead. Messi is completely average in every traditional metric used to measure a professional athlete. He's only 5 feet 7 inches tall. His body has a completely average build. He's not some freakish specimen of humanity, in fact he was born with a growth hormone deficiency which would have stunted his growth if it had not been noticed from an early age that he had some superhuman ability to control a ball with his feet that he was born with. No amount of practice or experience will make you Lionel Messi. He was born with that ability.

The video gamer also has abilities he or she was born with, and it happens they have channeled it into playing games. The vast majority of people on Earth will never be good at games no matter how much practice or experience they put into it. And of those people, only a relatively small number will ever have the very specific skills and ability to be good at Starcraft, fighting games, Quake, or DOTA2.

I hope I've made my post clear enough this time, if you still can't understand what I'm talking about then I can't help you anymore.

Your point is very clear, it's just total bullshit.
 
What's worse is being marginally decent (this is SF4, BTW), then taking a long sabbatical and trying to get back into it and getting waxed left and right. I guess I'm too old to get frustrated so I only play in spurts now.
 
Yeah, I feel very much the same, OP. Generally, I'm terrible at fighting games and always have been. I can't seem to get the hang of performing outrageous combos quickly. Admittedly, I had some success in Soul Calibur and Smash Bros., but that's it. Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Tekken... I'm horrible.
 
Combos. Combos. Combos.

Oh, and "1-frame links." That lead into: COMBOS.

Do Hayabusa Combo Training #2.

Press 1P+K to stun, then do 236T . 41236T . 698741236T quickly to pull off a throw combo command.

*brain melts*

Maybe try games where the community uses notation that actually makes sense and not that idiotic numeric notation that the DoA community uses.
 
Are my posts not clear enough or something?

What I'm saying is you need both talent/ability and practice/experience. You can't get by with just one or the other. This is literally true for everything in life.

You know who I think are crazy, are the people who think they are good at games because they practiced a lot. Yeah, you had to practice a lot. Guess what, so did everyone else. Do you not understand that everyone practices a lot, but only some people will ever be any good?

This effect is most observable in Starcraft and fighting games because of the very specific talents and abilities they stress. With these particular genres of games and probably a few others like MOBAs (someone mentioned Luffy was a DOTA2 player) and FPS titles like Quake, there is absolutely a hard skill ceiling that you can never exceed because of your own natural talents.

The LeBron James analogy was a bad one, so let's consider Lionel Messi instead. Messi is completely average in every traditional metric used to measure a professional athlete. He's only 5 feet 7 inches tall. His body has a completely average build. He's not some freakish specimen of humanity, in fact he was born with a growth hormone deficiency which would have stunted his growth if it had not been noticed from an early age that he had some superhuman ability to control a ball with his feet that he was born with. No amount of practice or experience will make you Lionel Messi. He was born with that ability. It's true that Messi has long had a reputation for being a hard worker who trains a lot, but he didn't become (probably) the greatest who ever lived by practice and experience alone. He was born with an unsurpassed natural talent that we may never see again in our lifetimes.

The video gamer also has abilities he or she was born with, and it happens they have channeled it into playing games. The vast majority of people on Earth will never be good at games no matter how much practice or experience they put into it. And of those people, only a relatively small number will ever have the very specific skills and ability to be good at Starcraft, fighting games, Quake, or DOTA2.

I hope I've made my post clear enough this time, if you still can't understand what I'm talking about then I can't help you anymore.

I'm disabled and just want to say this is bullshit. The best "talent" is a positive attitude and the will to experiment and lose
 
"Press 1P+K to stun, then do 236T . 41236T . 698741236T quickly to pull off a throw combo command."


That looks really complex until you realize it's just qcf, hcf, and then 360. You could even just think of it as inputs escalating.
 
You can't just practice combos, you have to practice them vs. a moving target so you'll know what combos work in different situations other than them standing still. And don't even get me started on defense, now THAT'S the most frustrating thing in fighting game history. MK has some strings that are difficult to block even when you know it's coming, like Erron Black far overhead into low
 
"Press 1P+K to stun, then do 236T . 41236T . 698741236T quickly to pull off a throw combo command."


That looks really complex until you realize it's just qcf, hcf, and then 360. You could even just think of it as inputs escalating.

You can also just do 360s for each motion. It's been that way since DOA2.
 
I'm disabled and just want to say this is bullshit. The best "talent" is a positive attitude and the will to experiment and lose

What's bullshit is you not understanding that being "disabled" or not has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I already told you Messi has a growth hormone deficiency.
 
I feel I'm an average player in fighting games. My current MKX online record is 120 wins and something like 54 losses. I'm not even that good, I just take advantage of the desperation of my opponent and knowing my character well. Some of my advice is:

1- Use all the characters and after awhile main one and stick with that character. Don't pay attention to tiers, just chose that character you are more comftable with. This makes all the difference.
2- Learn the reach of your char. This is crucial, because it is the easiest way to get cheap damage, and it makes your opponent feel uncomftable. In MKX I know exactly the reach of Cassie low kick reach, and I really explot it to my advantage. I also know how far her punches reach, which is crucial to get out of tight situations.
3. Don't rely on special moves, and learn their timing. Specials are great for cornering the opponent or as a surprise move, but if you rely on them all the time, good players will punish you for it. Take Scorpion for example. His special moves are great, and they are great for punishing the other player. But they are incredible unsafe when they miss, and leave you open to be punished. Knowing when to use them is crucial.
4. Never give up, there is always something to be learned when you are taking a beating. Analyze what you did wrong or how you got exploited and go from there.
5. It is never about the combos. For me combos are for the elite, for the ones that know the game in and out. MKX has been out for a while, and I don't pull any combos with Cassie yet, but I do know all her 1 string combos, specials, reach and how to pressure. I've beat players better than me with that knowledge.

There is more to it, but hopefully that helps you out.
 
What's bullshit is you not understanding that being "disabled" or not has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I already told you Messi has a growth hormone deficiency.

I just see a defeatist attitude in your post. I'm not naturally good at squat, I spend time to get good

0j82vuy.jpg
 
"What's bullshit is you not understanding that being "disabled" has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I already told you Messi has a growth hormone deficiency."

The thing you keep missing is that your whole comparison hinges on being the best in the world. Why is that? Being good is not just being *the best*. There are a ton of good players on GAF that'll probably never break top 8 at evo. They're still competent. There's nothing stopping you from being *competent* at fighting games besides your attitude.
 
What's bullshit is you not understanding that being "disabled" or not has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I already told you Messi has a growth hormone deficiency.

But what does that have to do with gaming? I'd argue that our hobby isn't physically intensive nor do you have to be a freak athlete to be competitive. Your analogies aren't very good.
 
But what does that have to do with gaming? I'd argue that our hobby isn't physically intensive nor do you have to be a freak athlete to be competitive. Your analogies aren't very good.

No you don't get it. Messi has some weird mutation that allows him to maneuver a ball between his legs quickly, and this is closely analogous to famous fighting game player _________ who suffers from a similar mutation that lets him do _____________, and until he retires there's ZERO reason to ever even play a fighting game because how can you compete with a guy who can ________.
 
Maybe try games where the community uses notation that actually makes sense and not that idiotic numeric notation that the DoA community uses.
It's not idiotic and actually it's based off GG and it's very easy to understand. Look at your numberpad see the directions? That's the numeric notation 236 is another varition of qcf I find both of them funny as hell.

Any fool off the street CAN get top 8 at evo, provided they practice a lot, compete in a lot of other tournaments, and get lucky with bracketing.
Aside from luck which is the great equalizer, the other things is something a fool off the street would go through. Most people don't have that mindset, which is why it's misleading to say any fool can go into it. :P

You can also just do 360s for each motion. It's been that way since DOA2.
Shortcuts, that's how it's done.

I just see a defeatist attitude in your post. I'm not naturally good at squat, I spend time to get good
Humanity is quite the defeatist species. Also priorities can also dictate if somebody will spend time to get good. All I am saying is shit is never as simple as people lead on.
 
For me, I:

Learn the timing of the animations - learn the timing of the jumps (straight-up-and-down & and trajectory jumps) - oh and get familiar with attack reach.
 
For me, I:

Learn the timing of the animations - learn the timing of the jumps (straight-up-and-down & and trajectory jumps) - oh and get familiar with attack reach.
A great start. You start small and then layer and gain experince to update your knowledge and skill.
But people sometimes forget the biggest stumbler for most people, if they play somebody too much better than them, will they have fun? I think not.
 
A great start. You start small and then layer and gain experince to update your knowledge and skill.
But people sometimes forget the biggest stumbler for most people, if they play somebody too much better than them, will they have fun? I think not.

It depends on the person. Lots of people at our weekly kept coming out even though they didn't win very much for the first few months.
 
I don't mind being a scrub and losing the hard way, but it's when you come across some bastard who just gimmicks you and whose sole tactic for winning is based on you not knowing how to counter said gimmick, thats when it frustrates the hell out of me.
 
A great start. You start small and then layer and gain experince to update your knowledge and skill.
But people sometimes forget the biggest stumbler for most people, if they play somebody too much better than them, will they have fun? I think not.

When this happens my goal at first is to win a round, also take the moment as a chance to learn about the other character
 
Biggest thing to getting good at a fighting game is also findin out how to stop how you defeat yourself. Using simple things to start with like a round not jumping and things like that with markers to see where you progressed is a strategy but that will require you knowing where you limits are so you practice smart and not dumb. Because it's not the time you spend but how you spend it.
 
I don't mind being a scrub and losing the hard way, but it's when you come across some bastard who just gimmicks you and whose sole tactic for winning is based on you not knowing how to counter said gimmick, thats when it frustrates the hell out of me.

That's the best way to learn how to beat the gimmick though.
 
Really happy to see people mentioning the Skullgirls Tutorials - we put a lot of effort into them so that they would actually teach you how to play fighting games.

On top of that, the PS4/Vita versions will have new combo trials, which use a new system Mike created to make learning and executing combos easier, too. On top of that, we actually teach you useful bread n' butter and advanced combos, not like the random stuff most other fighting games put in their combo trials.
 
Go play smash and play teams
It's fun even if you loose.
Than practice, and practice.

Gannon is easy chara to play,
Unless you prefer a
Distant characters like pikachu.
 
I will say as an admitted bad player of Street Fighter I did learn something playing randoms online in SF4. I just never would be able to word how I started to get better and actually win sometimes, anytime I see improvement its more instinct then anything. I certainly never learned to do any worthwhile combos, can't even do the first 2 hits consistently in some of the trials. I try to improve my skills by reading up online and my mind explodes at the detail. Worst of all is if I then take a break and play something else and lose any skill I had built up by the time I get back to it.

It's hard to dedicate so much time to one game so its never going to happen for me. I'm fine with being a casual player, I'll always be a fan of fighting games on that level. As long as they don't decide to go all in and only listen to and cater for the hardcore fighting game community I'll still play.
 
It depends on the person. Lots of people at our weekly kept coming out even though they didn't win very much for the first few months.
Indeed it does which is why I don't try to stand behind the whole concept of "Everybody can get to tourney level" and I go to it by person to person.

I'd love to see if either some community or some developer coops some learning studies into their guides into the games and see how that would increase the numbers of players. That will never happen though, the current method is 'sufficient'
 
I don't mind being a scrub and losing the hard way, but it's when you come across some bastard who just gimmicks you and whose sole tactic for winning is based on you not knowing how to counter said gimmick, thats when it frustrates the hell out of me.

It's frustrating sure but that's the best way to learn to beat these sorts of strategies. You get hit over and over again until you figure out how to stop it. The important thing is to recognize when YOUR strategy isn't working and figure out how to adjust. Far too often I see people fall back on their one "go to" strategy when pushed, even when it's not working, and then get frustrated and unable to adapt.

Go play smash and play teams
It's fun even if you loose.
Than practice, and practice.

Gannon is easy chara to play,
Unless you prefer a
Distant characters like pikachu.

This is the worst haiku I've ever seen!
 
Fighting games have come a long way since the days of the originals. Who would have thought that you would soon be rewarded for linking attacks in Street Fighter ?

In todays fighting games (may as well have just said the current SF, MK) I essentially stick with the basic moves (the traditional, sub-zero freeze, ryu/ken dragon punch and fireball etc). I can only do basic combos and don't chain link everything together. I can still compete online,, but I will ultimately get destroyed by someone that has a better idea on how to do 10+ hit combos using multiple moves.
 
I kinda feel bad for the OP.
I mean i'm not strong at fighting games just average... but i do think i tend to maximise what i know of said game in order to get my victory.

What you need
-A small selection of command input memorised
-A decent view of how to use those inputs and WHEN ( when the hardest part )
-A devious mind to read what your opponent might be doing before he does it. ( why is you opponent jumping ? why is he running toward you ? what attack must i be wary off ? )

Once you clear those 3 points, you won't suck at fighting games, you will have fun at ground level.

Combos are not necessary when you're learning a fighting game battle system. You only learn them onceyou've grasped the basics of said system first.
 
I kinda feel bad for the OP.
I mean i'm not strong at fighting games just average... but i do think i tend to maximise what i know of said game in order to get my victory.

What you need
-A small selection of command input memorised
-A decent view of how to use those inputs and WHEN ( when the hardest part )
-A devious mind to read what your opponent might be doing before he does it. ( why is you opponent jumping ? why is he running toward you ? what attack must i be wary off ? )

Once you clear those 3 points, you won't suck at fighting games, you will have fun at ground level.

I think a good base of watching other people play the game helps, too.

Something may feel insurmountable to you, but then you see someone who has already figured out how to avoid it, and it was ridiculously simple. You just hadn't thought of it yet.
 
Why do so many people equate knowing combos with knowing how to play?

I've realized a bit ago that "what" or "when" can be told, but "how" and "why" must be taught. Insight is very tough.

This is a REAL trap for genres like Fighters, Mmmmmmmobas, and such where that big high return punish combo is what's seen, not where the the guy who ate said combo got PREDICTABO or cornered.
 
"Press 1P+K to stun, then do 236T . 41236T . 698741236T quickly to pull off a throw combo command."


That looks really complex until you realize it's just qcf, hcf, and then 360. You could even just think of it as inputs escalating.

Alright, what about: Dunno if this changed from Super to Ultra:

(Corner Only) 6+MP, 2LP, 214+HP (Criminal Upper), 214(214?)+MP/HP(EX Criminal Upper)?

It's the finger contorting of changing directions really quickly and on the fly that kills combos for most people.

I mean hell: Ivy's Calamity Symphony which is (IIRC) 28284666B+G throws a lot of people off. I think this is "dumbed down" in Soul Calibur 5 because I remember looking at Ivy's movelist in Soul Calibur 2 which was like 1937461826 (exaggerating) and then B+G and I'm like "Yeah, no. Not the character or game for me."
 
More than any other genre of games, you pretty much had to grow up playing fighting games from a young age and have practiced them all your life to be really good at them. You also need unusually good reflexes even compared other gamers, and that's something you can train to some extent but it's also something you're born with.

This is probably why the modern FGC is such a tiny niche, come to think of it.

This is factually wrong.
 
Make sure to block and punish. But whatever you do, don't punish with combos, which as I understand are the devil.
 
For me, my problem is actually playing real players. Whenever I fight someone I end up getting really nervous and choke pretty hard, not to mention I end up forgetting everything I practiced up to that point.

Playing SSB4 alot online and seeing the pros play it really show me how much I'm so behind in the game that I just feel overwhelmed. Not to mention this happens alot with every fighting game I play. Not to mention my execution is pretty bad lol
 
Make sure to block and punish. But whatever you do, don't punish with combos, which as I understand are the devil.
lol you know damn well no one is saying that.

Folks are harping on that just because people who are new have a tendency to put too much stock in the importance of learning combos over understanding the very base fundamentals of the game they want to play. Combos come after. And are obviously important parts of dishing out damage and securing a win. Just not something I would personally make a friend focus on if they came to me wanting to improve at a fighting game.
 
My advice would be to drop mkx is you want to enjoy fighting games, that game online is just horrible experience, yeah it dial a combos, and very little strict frame timing ala a street fighter game, but unlike mk9 you do need good execution to do combos online I feel, not sure why that is bit I can't do shit all combos online bit I can do them everytime in practice, game is just frustrating as he'll online, even if you win.
 
Top Bottom