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[Tawpgun]

Do you mind providing a summary?

This, but I'm assuming it boils down to pats balls rate of deflation being higher than colts?

Also, did the report/science take into account the environment the balls are pumped in, and more curiously, the environment they are kept in during the game?

As you know, the patriots trashed the colts like nobodies business. Meaning they were on the field longer than the colts. Someone before mentioned if you take into account all the commercial breaks, timeouts and everything, the Pats were on offense 40% or something longer than the colts.

 

[Spinluck]

I'm curious what prompted another team to request an investigation into the Patriots deflated footballs. If the psi was truly low, I could understand, but where the balls checked were no more than .4 psi below the required psi, how did the opponent figure it out?

I'm guessing that it had to be a previous incident that occurred where the balls were significantly below the required psi. Both the Ravens and the Colts thought something was up, but the balls for the Colts game were hardly deflated.

I think my Colts were just butthurt over getting throat fucked. But Deflategate as a whole made it all bittersweet.

Going to be fun to see militant Pats fans defend this and Spygate for another decade!

 

[Gigglepoo]

I think my Colts were just butthurt over getting throat fucked. But Deflategate as a whole made it all bittersweet.

Going to be fun to see militant Pats fans defend this and Spygate for another decade!

They have four rings. That's it. That's the defense.

 

[spyder_ur]

https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/954971701222138

As a Patriots fan I think that's a fair statement. I mean I have some issues with the findings (and huge problems with the punishment) and obviously the person who is paying you by the hour has at least some influence on you (even if subconsciously), but it's not a very valid criticism by Pats reps or fans after the fact.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Why didn't Brady just come out and say the balls were too hard and he asked they be deflated a smidge? No intent to under inflate.. Just a mistake. Take the 25k hit and move on.

I'm no stranger to digging horrific holes for myself, but the solution was so fucking easy for Tom. Pats fans should be infuriated at his stupidity.. Instead they're trying to pay the teams $1mm fine. Incredible.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Why didn't Brady just come out and say the balls were too hard and he asked they be deflated a smidge? No intent to under inflate.. Just a mistake. Take the 25k hit and move on.

Pretty much. The infraction doesn't matter at all.

 

[ShaneB]

Anxiously awaiting all the suspensions to all the quarterbacks who modify the game balls to their liking. Full season suspension to Aaron Rodgers for over-inflating his footballs please.

 

[BigAT]

except broncos are the #1 cheaters. http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/

This is one of the sadder things I have seen in a while.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Anxiously awaiting all the suspensions to all the quarterbacks who modify the game balls to their liking. Full season suspension to Aaron Rodgers for over-inflating his footballs please.

The league would be significantly worse if the NFL suspended everyone who has tried to circumvent the rules for their own benefit.

 

[VeryGooster]

Heroes

Needs more tear gas

 

[Cybit]

This, but I'm assuming it boils down to pats balls rate of deflation being higher than colts?

Also, did the report/science take into account the environment the balls are pumped in, and more curiously, the environment they are kept in during the game?

As you know, the patriots trashed the colts like nobodies business. Meaning they were on the field longer than the colts. Someone before mentioned if you take into account all the commercial breaks, timeouts and everything, the Pats were on offense 40% or something longer than the colts.

Both sets of balls were kept in the same open air environment in the stadium. Per the Ideal Gas Law so repeatedly leaned on by Yee and Kraft; that meant the two sets of balls should have been at least somewhat close to each other. That's what the statistical analysis pointed out; that based on the rate of expected decay and the standard deviation; there's basically no chance that the Patriots balls naturally deflated on their own that much.

On top of it; after they re-inflated the Patriots balls at halftime, they looked at the balls for both teams AFTER the game as well, and found that they all had deflated at close to an equal rate. (See Page 73). Seeing as the Patriots did not stop wafflestomping the Colts at half time (and in fact, I believe it became worse) - the fact that both sets of balls dropped at equal rates between halftime and the end of the game is also extremely damning.

I'm curious what prompted another team to request an investigation into the Patriots deflated footballs. If the psi was truly low, I could understand, but where the balls checked were no more than .4 psi below the required psi, how did the opponent figure it out?

I'm guessing that it had to be a previous incident that occurred where the balls were significantly below the required psi. Both the Ravens and the Colts thought something was up, but the balls for the Colts game were hardly deflated.

I don't think they ever measured the ball that was intercepted in the game itself. That said, the Ravens had muttered something during their game with the Patriots the week preceding, and Grigson (the GM of the Colts) I believe comes from the Ravens organization.

 

[LyleLanley]

Heroes

The Barstool guys are making a killing off of this.

 

[CitizenCope]

I think my Colts were just butthurt over getting throat fucked. But Deflategate as a whole made it all bittersweet.

Going to be fun to see militant Pats fans defend this and Spygate for another decade!

A decade? The salt from 4 Super Bowls will have us defending it forever.

 

[spyder_ur]

Serious question. Does this basically create a precedent where players and team personnel are required to rat out others, say for PEDs? It seems like it would be pretty easy to say, for instance, that the coach of a team (or certainly players) "more probably than not" was "generally aware" that his players were taking steroids, which I assume everyone agrees is cheating.

 

[Spinluck]

They have four rings. That's it. That's the defense.

Yet some of them spend their time in here fighting the good fight and still getting hot, and bothered over jokes from almost a decade ago.

It's awesome to see.

 

[Tawpgun]

Serious question. Does this basically create a precedent where players and team personnel are required to rat out others, say for PEDs? It seems like it would be pretty easy to say, for instance, that the coach of a team (or certainly players) "more probably than not" was "generally aware" that his players were taking steroids, which I assume everyone agrees is cheating.

Richard Sherman last year tested positive but the results got thrown out due to some technicality or something.

Couple players get caught with PED's a year I think.


But I hardly think this sets any hard precedent. The NFL isn't exactly the best or consistent with their punishments.

 

[Spinluck]

A decade? The salt from 4 Super Bowls will have us defending it forever.

Lol more successful franchises out there bud. None of them put with this.

4 Super Bowls*

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Yet some of them spend their time in here fighting the good fight and still getting hot, and bothered over jokes from almost a decade ago.

It's awesome to see.

We cannot let you savage unclean heathens go unpunished.

 

[CitizenCope]

Yet some of them spend their time in here fighting the good fight and still getting hot, and bothered over jokes from almost a decade ago.

It's awesome to see.

I need to go through the thread. I thought a lot of us were having fun with this? It's only been 3 months since number 4* baby!!

 

[bob_arctor]

A decade? The salt from 4 Super Bowls will have us defending it forever.

Forever?? Be honest. Once Belicheat and Tom Deflatey retire, Pats fans will spontaneously cease to exist, perhaps finding refuge in whatever demonic crawlspace their masters belong to. Except for Sanjuro.

 

[chadskin]

Why didn't Brady just come out and say the balls were too hard and he asked they be deflated a smidge? No intent to under inflate.. Just a mistake. Take the 25k hit and move on.

Because there's more to the story than "just" a set of deflated footballs. It's all in the report, there's even a pretty good tl;dr right at the beginning.

 

[spyder_ur]

Richard Sherman last year tested positive but the results got thrown out due to some technicality or something.

Couple players get caught with PED's a year I think.


But I hardly think this sets any hard precedent. The NFL isn't exactly the best or consistent with their punishments.

Bingo. You're right. I guess what I was getting at was the "generally aware" part.

But this is a very unique case obviously.

 

[Cybit]

Bingo. You're right. I guess what I was getting at was the "generally aware" part.

PED / Drugs are codified in the CBA - so those are set penalties. Other stuff (Domestic Violence, Deflategate, etc) is kind of "make it up as we go".

I imagine we will see more and more athletes get busted for Adderall; this generation of college students (athletes and not) abuse the crap out of it. I kinda think Adderall, Marijuana, and HGH should be OK to use personally though.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They have four rings. That's it. That's the defense.

At least they don't have 6.

 

[Gigglepoo]

At least they don't have 6.

The Niners were just three yards away from getting their sixth...

 

[jman2050]

The Patriots are subservient to the Giants forever and no amount of rings will change that.

 

[CitizenCope]

Forever?? Be honest. Once Belicheat and Tom Deflatey retire, Pats fans will spontaneously cease to exist, perhaps finding refuge in whatever demonic crawlspace their masters belong to. Except for Sanjuro.

And when Garoppolo gets number 5,6,7,8 and 9 you promise not to be mean anymore?

 

[spyder_ur]

PED / Drugs are codified in the CBA - so those are set penalties. Other stuff (Domestic Violence, Deflategate, etc) is kind of "make it up as we go".

I imagine we will see more and more athletes get busted for Adderall; this generation of college students (athletes and not) abuse the crap out of it. I kinda think Adderall, Marijuana, and HGH should be OK to use personally though.

I know that and totally agree with the first two.

I'm not saying it well, but I guess my point is that the wording is incredibly vague - I mean neither the Wells Report nor the NFL statement yesterday really say exactly what they are accusing Brady of, with the exception of the cooperation part which I find laughable on a ton of fronts.

 

[Tawpgun]

Hypothetically speaking what would everyone do if pats and brady won it again this year

 

[Spinluck]

We cannot let you savage unclean heathens go unpunished.

I'm gonna get mine before I got, Gotor.

 

[Draxal]

I'm curious what prompted another team to request an investigation into the Patriots deflated footballs. If the psi was truly low, I could understand, but where the balls checked were no more than .4 psi below the required psi, how did the opponent figure it out?

I'm guessing that it had to be a previous incident that occurred where the balls were significantly below the required psi. Both the Ravens and the Colts thought something was up, but the balls for the Colts game were hardly deflated.

When the Ravens/Patriots played each other, the Pats did some stuff with the formations (which where legal) and Brady told the Ravens to read the rule book.

The Ravens probably leaked some stuff to the Colts as a result.

 

[HoodWinked]

you know the game which probably most significantly altered the outcome was the ravens vs patriots in the quarter finals where they initially found the balls to be under inflated game was super close and end up being a shoot out where the ball preference mattered most.

Brady went – 33/50, 367 yards, 3 TD, INT and the final score was 35-31.

colts game was a blow out so it didnt matter, and the superbowl the balls were fixed.

so really ravens got fucked out of a superbowl cause flacco is just unstoppable in the playoffs. oh well.

 

[Spinluck]

Hypothetically speaking what would everyone do if pats and brady won it again this year

Same thing Pats fans will do when Bill retires.

 

[LyleLanley]

Same thing Pats fans will do when Bill retires.

Start praying at the alter of McDaniels?

 

[TwoDurans]

except broncos are the #1 cheaters. http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/

Whooo! Finally a list my Titans are near the best of.

 

[eissan]

I didnt see this posted so I thought it would add to the discussion.

Note, this is the same PHd professor who did a piece before and I remember reading on here in one of the discussions. He is a Pats fan so take it as a salty fan trying to use science to support his claim .

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

PV=nRT
to determine how the pressure of the footballs changed. In this equation, P is pressure in psia (add 14.7 psig to the gauge pressure reading), T is temperature in Kelvin (where Kelvin and Fahrenheit are related by TK=5/9(TF+459.67)), V is the volume of the football, n is the amount of air in the football, and R is a universal constant. In the world where V, n, and R are constant (the football doesn't expand and air doesn't leak out, by nefarious means or otherwise), comparing the pre-game readings to the halftime readings is as simple as solving

Ppregame/Tpregame = Phalftime/Thalftime

Using this equation with Tpregame = 74°F and Thalftime = 48°F, the halftime measurements of each football can be used to predict what the pre-game pressure value must have been. Before the data was released (and making assumptions about the initial pressure of the Colts balls and the temperatures, which is why the lines are labeled with non-Wells Report numbers -- but you get the idea), I made the following chart which shows just exactly how the pressure of a football should vary with temperature.

Patriots Ball Number	Average Halftime Reading (w/ Non-Logo Gauge corrected) [psig]	Projected Pre-Game Reading on Logo Gauge [psig]
1	11.84	13.20
2	11.22	12.50
3	11.52	12.76
4	11.04	12.22
5	11.47	12.62
6	11.97	13.10
7	12.27	13.36
8	11.52	12.54
9	11.34	12.31
10	10.89	11.80
11	11.32	12.19
Avg	11.49	12.60

Why, that data almost suggests that nothing nefarious happened at all! The average halftime measurement was 11.49 psig in Logo Gauge units. This corresponds to a pre-game projected measurement on the Logo Gauge of 12.83 psig. I'm pretty sure that's greater than 12.5 psig, which is the arbitrary limit the NFL set. In fact, only 2 balls were projected to be lower than 12.5 psig (balls 4 and 10), which can be explained in a bazillion ways other than cheating (and according to Occam's razor, those other solutions are probably more realistic).

Was this brought up in the report? the predicted pre-game ball PSI?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

except broncos are the #1 cheaters. http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/

I think everyone who's honest with themselves knows that teams and players have been cheating or otherwise breaking rules for years. Because it's not a game; it's real life for these people. It's the difference between being able to feed your family and not. And as such, people will act out to protect their interests. Whether it's taking PEDs, recording other teams, sending text messages during the games, pumping in noise, holding, tripping, kicking, punching, pushing off, under-inflating balls, over-inflating balls, or trying to hurt other players...people will do whatever they can do from moment to moment to get an advantage and hope they can get away with it.

It is what most pro sports are: far from clean. But grand-standing and feigning outrage is more fun than dealing with the reality.

That said, I'm pleased my Browns are on the bottom.

 

[ampere]

Hypothetically speaking what would everyone do if pats and brady won it again this year

Probably get a "Double Repeat Champion #12" special edition jersey. Idk

 

[LyleLanley]

That said, I'm pleased my Browns are on the bottom.

Oh come on!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Oh come on!

the bottom of that cheaters list! lol

i walked right into that.

 

[chadskin]

 

[Cybit]

I didnt see this posted so I thought it would add to the discussion.

Note, this is the same PHd professor who did a piece before and I remember reading on here in one of the discussions. He is a Pats fan so take it as a salty fan trying to use science to support his claim .

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

Was this brought up in the report? the predicted pre-game ball PSI?

He's ignoring the part in the Wells report where the refs mention that all of the Patriots balls were at 12.5 and the Colts balls were at 13. He's reverse engineering the starting pressure from the measured halftime values - of course it's going to look good, he's starting from the assumption that nothing happened. Basically, he's being extremely intellectually dishonest and removing all data that disproves his point.

The reason he doesn't include the Colts balls is that the Colts balls being reverse engineered would mean that the Colts balls were insanely high to begin with.

Whenever someone wants to "science" explain away deflategate - ask yourself this basic question. Why did the Patriots balls deflate twice as far as the Colts balls between the beginning of the game and half time, and why did those SAME PATRIOTS BALLS deflate at the SAME RATE as the Colts balls between halftime and the end of the game (after they were reinflated and calibrated and measured)? Unless it gives an answer for that; the explanation is bullshit.

 

[entremet]

Hypothetically speaking what would everyone do if pats and brady won it again this year

You guys dumped Revis. You would've been my pick if you didn't do that.

Finally get a god tier CB that doesn't get injured in important games and you win the SB.

Not a coincidence.

 

[LyleLanley]

This is a big win for the Jets franchise.

 

[Patriots7]

Wells said that Brady was "totally cooperative"

Also mentioned he's (Wells) paid by the hour and the final bill will be "in the millions" haha... Not a bad gig.

Getting paid millions to find inconclusive evidence.
God, why did I pick finance over law?

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Those cheating rankings are dumb. The Dolphins tamper all the time. We did it when we got Shula way back when and we just did it again to get Suh. Tampering ain't shit tho. If you aren't tampering to some degree you're GM sucks. Pumping in crowd noise is more appalling than tampering.

 

[BigAT]

The number of Wikipedia searches for "ideal gas law" from the Boston area must be overwhelming.

 

[LyleLanley]

Getting paid millions to find inconclusive evidence.
God, why did I pick finance over law?

It's a shame there's no money in finance.

 

[Maxim726X]

Why didn't Brady just come out and say the balls were too hard and he asked they be deflated a smidge? No intent to under inflate.. Just a mistake. Take the 25k hit and move on.

I'm no stranger to digging horrific holes for myself, but the solution was so fucking easy for Tom. Pats fans should be infuriated at his stupidity.. Instead they're trying to pay the teams $1mm fine. Incredible.

Right, that's my point. The ball is allowed to be under inflated to a point... So who is to say that Brady ever wanted the ball below 12.5 PSI?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Getting paid millions to find inconclusive evidence.
God, why did I pick finance over law?

I have an English degree...