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[charlequin]

The thing that blows my mind is that the Kicktraq says it's trending towards $18 Million

The trends by definition are not predictive. What you want is the projection range chart, which won't go up for a couple days yet.

Also, I very much doubt this is going to get anywhere close to 6 million. Unless their social media shenanigans are way more effective than I expect I think it will flatten out soon.

I mean... what counts as close? Given its start the project will easily clear $3m, and it would need an aggressive slowdown to not get into Torment $4m-ish territory.

Are you kidding? Something like half (hyperbole) of all Videogames on Kickstarter are Metroidvanias! Hell, before Bloodstained my other 3 backed projects were Mighty No 9, Heart Forth Alicia and Timespinner being those last two Metroidvanias that look amazing.

IGA's last few games didn't actually sell all that well and he's had something of a mixed brand personally. Infinity Engine-style RPGs were more mainstream and targeted at a more enthusiastic audience.It's not that I thought it would fail or anything, just that it'd be a $1.5ish campaign instead of what it's actually turning out to be.

 

[Red Arremer]

IGA's last few games didn't actually sell all that well and he's had something of a mixed brand personally. Infinity Engine-style RPGs were more mainstream and targeted at a more enthusiastic audience.It's not that I thought it would fail or anything, just that it'd be a $1.5ish campaign instead of what it's actually turning out to be.

The thirst is real. Despite there having been many Metroidvania type games, almost none of them tackled the gothic/horror theme of Castlevania, with most of them opting to try and fill the Metroid thirst instead with sci-fi themes. It just adds another level of desirable shininess to it, plus of course the name of a respected developer gives it another boost.

Castlevania always has been a flagship series within the "hardcore" audience, so I'm not surprised with many people being willing to spend AAA title-levels of money to pledge to this project (the average pledge is at around 75$).

I have to admit, I'm surprised it's outpacing Mighty No. 9, but I guess the vocal minority thing strikes again with the Mega Man fanbase.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Castlevania >>> Mega Man

 

[kiryogi]

The thirst is real. Despite there having been many Metroidvania type games, almost none of them tackled the gothic/horror theme of Castlevania, with most of them opting to try and fill the Metroid thirst instead with sci-fi themes. It just adds another level of desirable shininess to it, plus of course the name of a respected developer gives it another boost.

Castlevania always has been a flagship series within the "hardcore" audience, so I'm not surprised with many people being willing to spend AAA title-levels of money to pledge to this project (the average pledge is at around 75$).

I have to admit, I'm surprised it's outpacing Mighty No. 9, but I guess the vocal minority thing strikes again with the Mega Man fanbase.

That + Yamane as well. And if they could have somehow gotten Ayame Kojima onboard this really would have been an instant sell. But Iga + Yamane is what the others don't have.

 

[Death Metalist]

That + Yamane as well. And if they could have somehow gotten Ayame Kojima onboard this really would have been an instant sell. But Iga + Yamane is what the others don't have.

Exactly. Man, listening to the game's theme and you still get classic Castlevania feels. The soundtrack is going to be something special.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

wonder if 90% of their money is still coming from a publisher

 

[Foffy]

Castlevania >>> Mega Man

Preach, my brother.

 

[Theonik]

wonder if 90% of their money is still coming from a publisher

By the end of the campaign they should have a 50:50 or 40:60 split for the funding I'd guess.

Edit:

I wonder if he was being hyperbolic about $500,000 being only the 10% of what he needed (being that the 90% was a publisher).

Also if that was true and the publisher was giving them $4,500,000 and the KS ends up gathering something close to that number you guys think the publisher would still give the same amount and Bloodstained could become a $9 or $10 million dollar Videogame?

Yes, the publisher is probably recouping part of their costs out of the KS amount since it would account for 1/3rd of the total sales of the game or so if trends follow other KS projects.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

wonder if 90% of their money is still coming from a publisher

I wonder if he was being hyperbolic about $500,000 being only the 10% of what he needed (being that the 90% was a publisher).

Also if that was true and the publisher was giving them $4,500,000 and the KS ends up gathering something close to that number you guys think the publisher would still give the same amount and Bloodstained could become a $9 or $10 million dollar Videogame?

 

[Game Guru]

Take Two and Nintendo are as hit and franchise driven as EA and Activision and Ubisoft. I'd argue they are just smarter about it because they spread out the release years and minimize franchise fatigue. But the bulk of their software revenue still comes from a handful of huge games.

My point is that Konami funding a Castlevania wouldn't have saved their game business. The market is too niche to support a big company, even if they had 10 new Castlevania sized games. This stuff only works at the indie or very small company level. They aren't out of touch, they don't want to be in the market.

That is true, though Konami's equivalent to GTA in this particular case is not Castlevania, but instead Metal Gear. I don't think anyone expects Konami to not put a good amount of their console focus on Metal Gear which is why the fight between Konami and Hideo Kojima is so surprising. You could perhaps understand Konami not exactly opening the purse strings for IGA to make his dream game, but they should be responding to Hideo Kojima with a "Yes, sir!" instead of a "Fuck off!"

 

[BassForever]

That is true, though Konami's equivalent to GTA in this particular case is not Castlevania, but instead Metal Gear. I don't think anyone expects Konami to not put a good amount of their console focus on Metal Gear which is why the fight between Konami and Hideo Kojima is so surprising. You could perhaps understand Konami not exactly opening the purse strings for IGA to make his dream game, but they should be responding to Hideo Kojima with a "Yes, sir!" instead of a "Fuck off!"

Kojima made the mgs games costly with system pushing graphics, tons of cg and voice acting with hollywood talent, takes years to make one game, etc

Konami could make way more money out sourcing the game to some mid tier wester developer who can pump out mgs console and handheld games yearly while letting their mobile divison pump out f2p garbage

 

[Morfeo]

Have they commented on the possibility of a Vita, 3DS or Wii U-version the last day? I cant be the only one who would prefer this on a handheld.

 

[BadWolf]

Kojima made the mgs games costly with system pushing graphics, tons of cg and voice acting with hollywood talent, takes years to make one game, etc

Konami could make way more money out sourcing the game to some mid tier wester developer who can pump out mgs console and handheld games yearly while letting their mobile divison pump out f2p garbage

Worked out so well for Silent Hill, can't wait.

 

[BMX Bandit]

Have they commented on the possibility of a Vita, 3DS or Wii U-version the last day? I cant be the only one who would prefer this on a handheld.

It is being made on unreal 4. They said it won't work on Nintendo hardware but they kinda made a nod that there could be a stretch goal for it further on.

 

[ZoddGutts]

They also have a Paypal up ever since the Kickstarter went up which isn't being counted in the Kickstarter total count, wonder where it's at if you include both?

https://fulfillment.fangamer.com/bloodstained

 

[Memory]

Have they commented on the possibility of a Vita, 3DS or Wii U-version the last day? I cant be the only one who would prefer this on a handheld.

On the stream they said they are focusing on the core target. I imagine they may do ports but given that the release isn't until mid 2017 I'd imagine that it makes more sense to port to the newer Nintendo hardware since it will no doubt be out by then. Current Vita is unlikely but who knows what Sony has planned next.

 

[Game Guru]

Kojima made the mgs games costly with system pushing graphics, tons of cg and voice acting with hollywood talent, takes years to make one game, etc

Konami could make way more money out sourcing the game to some mid tier wester developer who can pump out mgs console and handheld games yearly while letting their mobile divison pump out f2p garbage

If Metal Gear is given to a mid-tier developer, it becomes a mid-tier game and will sell as well as a mid-tier game does. It's not like the typical Activision, EA, or Ubisoft game doesn't have all that stuff behind it, which gets back to my initial point of how other companies shouldn't be like them, because they wouldn't be able to compete.

 

[kyubajin]

Bit the bullet at US$ 60 (+ international shipping). If it lives up to its premise, Symphony of the Night may cry.

 

[Foffy]

Have they commented on the possibility of a Vita, 3DS or Wii U-version the last day? I cant be the only one who would prefer this on a handheld.

As some users here have said - I don't know if it's true - but none of those platforms support Unreal Engine 4. I would like a different game in the same universe, if that's so, so those platforms still get something, and fans get more to play. Igarashi was one of the few producers where if he had a console and handheld game come out the same year, neither one was a 'filler' game for the other project. Most companies would shit out a companion game to the main title and it'd very obviously show, so I would hope if something is at least made for those systems and it can't handle the base game, it's something still fun, still in the same fictional world, and something not thrown out as a hold-me-over experience until the "real" thing arrives.

In fact, assuming those systems really can't handle the game due to the engine, I would want that to happen. I think everybody wins if we get more stuff.

 

[Firemind]

Shocking that people are trying to downplay the role of a producer in any creative project.

It's just me. I mean, in filmmaking, nobody talks about the producer. The director is far more important in the creative process. In music, producers aren't the creative driving force, unless you're not a real musician and you're just providing a face and vocals. I suppose in gaming the producer can be many things together, especially in a small team. Again, I don't pertain to know anything about Inti Creates or Japanese game development in general.

Good on Iga though to be able to rally so many supporters to his cause. Like many of you, I do miss Castlevania.

 

[mao2]

Glad they added the $60 Special Backer Edition Digital Copy tier. Just pledged.

 

[Kouriozan]

I wonder what are those "dungeon level stretch goals", would be funny if when unlocked with the achievements, they are already funded.

 

[Red Arremer]

I wonder what are those "dungeon level stretch goals", would be funny if when unlocked with the achievements, they are already funded.

They are just the stretch goals that are not shown (yet).

 

[Durante]

I mean... what counts as close? Given its start the project will easily clear $3m, and it would need an aggressive slowdown to not get into Torment $4m-ish territory.

For the purpose of that statement, I'd say "close" is anything > 5 million.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Fuck it, went in for the $100 CE. The physical copy, soundtrack and credits listing sold me.

 

[Syntsui]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

 

[Isomac]

I haven't kickstarted anything in long time. I had to pledge for this project. Oh, Castlevania

 

[More_Badass]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

Monument Valley on IOS cost $800,000+ dollars to make. An 8 person team working for a year. You have an outdated view of what game dev costs.

 

[Zaptruder]

Damn. This is one crazy kickstarter.

Those guys better be working furiously on a vertical slice visualization of what they intend for the game to show off to people sitting on the fence. If they can manage that, they'll pull off a second wind that'll push them into... uncharted territories.

 

[Charles Brandon]

if it takes two years and ten people are working on it, then you only have to be paying them $50k a year before you've spent $1m on wages alone

 

[nynt9]

When talking about cost of making stuff and kickstarter, remember that kickstarter takes a decent cut of your money and a significant amount of the money goes toward fulfilling rewards.

 

[Vire]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

A million dollars is next to nothing. The game is projected to hit 2017, meaning you have to pay around ten to fifteen people a $60,000 annually for two years, then you add in taxes, business and office space costs, legal and kick starter fees.

Oops you have no money and are now in debt.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Good to the strech goals and achievements have been updated and more importantly pledges still pouring in. Odd that the 25 selfies at a castle hasn't toppled yet. Saying that there's two castles not far from me, not that I'm going to round up 25 of my mates for a silly kickstarter thing unless it was a big pay off for the effort/embarrassment.

 

[Rymuth]

When talking about cost of making stuff and kickstarter, remember that kickstarter takes a decent cut of your money and a significant amount of the money goes toward fulfilling rewards.

Playtonic has a pie chart that explains it. Obviously, the finer details will be different but it should help put things in perspective.

 

[Rimon-hanit]

It is being made on unreal 4. They said it won't work on Nintendo hardware but they kinda made a nod that there could be a stretch goal for it further on.

It seems to me they are talking about a separate game which seems a lot cooler then just a downgraded version, would love a Vita version to go along with my PS4 one but in either case it's way to early to discuss other versions.

Anyway I really wish they would make the art book available in a lower tier I would love to get my hands on it but 150$ is way over my limit.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

They are going for around $5,000,000 and that seems about right to me. Think of it this way:

Average game developer salaries in 2013:

Business and management: $101,572
Audio professionals: $95,682
Programmers: $93,251
Artists and animators: $74,349
Producers: $82,286
Game designers: $73,864
Quality Assurance: $54,833

The average of the averages: $83,060. Now, this is a two year project. So, what does $5 million get us for two years if it is only paying salaries and nothing else? A team of 30 people. But of course it isn't paying salaries and nothing else (though salaries are the biggest chunk). They also have to pay for marketing (when the game's released it's gonna need advertising), development offices, lawyers (they are making a number of business agreements), taxes, etc. And Inti-Creates is a company being hired for development, a company wants to make a profit above just paying for salaries - sure there's going to be a royalty split but usually how it works is the develolpment company gets paid up front and then doesn't actually earn royalties until the royalties pay off the fees - they do it that way so that they can make a profit without having to worry about the game sales being profitable.

And they are already spending money - for a Kickstarter, around 10% of the winning amount comes off the top, going to Kickstarter itself. And this Kickstarter was expensive, unlike many Kickstarters Igarashi and his team didn't do it all themselves, they paid a company to create, advertise and update the Kickstarter, a professional production company to film and edit the Kickstarter video, and a company to create and ship the rewards. And of course the rewards themselves are going to cost money to create, store and ship.

So now you're going to ask, what about game sales? Shouldn't those pay for this stuff? Well, you gotta make a game before you can sell it, so you need the money before it sells. The publisher/investor is investing in the development expecting to make that money back in sales. The more successful the Kickstarter, the less external investment is needed. Then when the game sales come in, they can go towards making their next game without needing to Kickstart that one.

 

[brandonh83]

Worked out so well for Silent Hill, can't wait.

It would have been fine if Konami had given those teams more support. But then again I'm not a Team Silent or bust guy and believe that Silent Hill is a sandbox of storytelling potential that can be many things. Downpour's main problems were mostly technical. If that game were more polished I'd put it up there with the first three and already believe it to be in terms of story.

I know 99% of everyone here will disagree so I can't really say I'm looking for an argument, but I do think people are irrationally stubborn about that series. That being said I agree that outsourcing is lame in general especially if you're not willing to support the teams more than Konami has been.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

You don't need more than that, but they are working on making a game with a decent budget, it's a different scope.

 

[TheSeks]

Shouta, if you design that weapon, maybe not just do it for Duckroll, but aim it towards all the salty posters here. Make it a sword in the shape of a giant syringe, and call it the Hyperbolic Needle, just a little pin prick to relieve an ill thread of the hyperbole.

If anything, I'd ask Shouta not to make it a NeoGAF in-joke. Those are generally cringe inducing because they're so completely out of place with where they're included.

 

[Theonik]

Do they really need a publisher? It just boggles me that you need more than a million dollars to make this game. Development costs are ridiculous this generation.

2 years of expensive technical salaries isn't cheap and that's before you factor in any additional cost associated with developing a game that are substantial.
Edit: Dreamwriter already got this with a more comprehensive post.

If anything, I'd ask Shouta not to make it a NeoGAF in-joke. Those are generally cringe inducing because they're so completely out of place with where they're included.

Shouta also gets a special message on the credits to more effectively put the salt in anyway. Something like:
"No Special Thanks to Duckroll and the salty crew"

 

[Gbraga]

If anything, I'd ask Shouta not to make it a NeoGAF in-joke. Those are generally cringe inducing because they're so completely out of place with where they're included.

Yep, I'm with you.

 

[brandonh83]

If anything, I'd ask Shouta not to make it a NeoGAF in-joke. Those are generally cringe inducing because they're so completely out of place with where they're included.

The problem with many of these indie games is that they for some reason insist on trying to make their image of message forum posters think they're funny. Shovel Knight is even guilty of this. I have no problem with humor but I don't remember games growing up trying to make me laugh with hipster jokes.

 

[Cmagus]

Hmm I wanna donate to this bad but I'm kind of hesitant until I see more of what the game will actually look like. I'm not really liking how MN9 turned out visually. I'll keep an eye on this but if there is no updates by time this ends that shows at least something in progress I may pass.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Hmm I wanna donate to this bad but I'm kind of hesitant until I see more of what the game will actually look like. I'm not really liking how MN9 turned out visually. I'll keep an eye on this but if there is no updates by time this ends that shows at least something in progress I may pass.

The game is already heavily funded, there is no need to donate unless you want one of the rewards badly, just wait till it hits a storefront.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If anything, I'd ask Shouta not to make it a NeoGAF in-joke. Those are generally cringe inducing because they're so completely out of place with where they're included.

what're you, some kind of expert?

 

[TheSeks]

Shouta also gets a special message on the credits to more effectively put the salt in anyway. Something like:
"No Special Thanks to Duckroll and the salty crew"

I mean if he is going to go through with it at least be subtle. Make it feel like it'd be part of the games canon or something in regards to the weapon. Just don't make it a giant duck sword or something because that would be so out of place and terrible.

But I'm still in the camp that he should make a weapon that doesn't feel like a in-joke.

 

[Gbraga]

The GAF inn ended up being classy as hell, so that kind of stuff I'm ok with, if you never heard of NeoGAF, it wouldn't feel stupid, you'd accept that as part of the world.

 

[Firemind]

Dear Shouta,

Remake this, please.

Love,

Firemind

 

[Syntsui]

They are going for around $5,000,000 and that seems about right to me. Think of it this way:

Average game developer salaries in 2013:


The average of the averages: $83,060. Now, this is a two year project. So, what does $5 million get us for two years if it is only paying salaries and nothing else? A team of 30 people. But of course it isn't paying salaries and nothing else (though salaries are the biggest chunk). They also have to pay for marketing (when the game's released it's gonna need advertising), development offices, lawyers (they are making a number of business agreements), taxes, etc. And Inti-Creates is a company being hired for development, a company wants to make a profit above just paying for salaries - sure there's going to be a royalty split but usually how it works is the develolpment company gets paid up front and then doesn't actually earn royalties until the royalties pay off the fees - they do it that way so that they can make a profit without having to worry about the game sales being profitable.

And they are already spending money - for a Kickstarter, around 10% of the winning amount comes off the top, going to Kickstarter itself. And this Kickstarter was expensive, unlike many Kickstarters Igarashi and his team didn't do it all themselves, they paid a company to create, advertise and update the Kickstarter, a professional production company to film and edit the Kickstarter video, and a company to create and ship the rewards. And of course the rewards themselves are going to cost money to create, store and ship.

So now you're going to ask, what about game sales? Shouldn't those pay for this stuff? Well, you gotta make a game before you can sell it, so you need the money before it sells. The publisher/investor is investing in the development expecting to make that money back in sales. The more successful the Kickstarter, the less external investment is needed. Then when the game sales come in, they can go towards making their next game without needing to Kickstart that one.

Interesting, that's a good read. Thank you.

 

[Theonik]

I mean if he is going to go through with it at least be subtle. Make it feel like it'd be part of the games canon or something in regards to the weapon. Just don't make it a giant duck sword or something because that would be so out of place and terrible.

But I'm still in the camp that he should make a weapon that doesn't feel like a in-joke.

I'm saying that he should make a normal weapon and use his 'Special Message' entry in the credits instead which is more appropriate.