Which is my point. You can't throw out "it's congruent with the time period" like it's some kind of explanation that we should just accept for something we don't like.
More outrage at depiction of rape in Game of Thrones television show (spoilers)
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Which is my point. You can't throw out "it's congruent with the time period" like it's some kind of explanation that we should just accept for something we don't like.
Well, that's a pretty terrible point.
You're arguing about the scene in relation to the plot, which has yet to unfold. How can you complain about something that hasn't concluded yet?
The Silver
Member
But Ramsey raping Sansa IS something he would do and was completely expected by all parties involved.
Ramsey flaying Sansa makes no sense and would only serve to rally the North against him, his father would probably kill him himself if he did that to Sansa.
blitzcloud
Banned
barely anything that happens in Westeros is acceptable. I think she probably suffered emotionally way more when Joffrey made her look at her father's head in a spike for torture sake, but that's only a guess.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I feel like a lot of this has to do with the fact that a lot of people love Sansa (and the Starks) and also because she's a virgin. If it were a character that isn't beloved getting raped I don't think the level of outrage would be as high. But that's just guessing by me. Poor Sansa 
I do think they're overusing the rape thing. Actually I don't even mind it happening because the rules of the world and what happens after weddings are already built, but it could have been implied or happened off screen rather than going full boar on the shock.
Or have her get out of it somehow. I don't know though. I'm against the over-use of rape but overall I'm kind of indifferent. This show is basically torture porn sometimes both physically and mentally.
I do think they're overusing the rape thing. Actually I don't even mind it happening because the rules of the world and what happens after weddings are already built, but it could have been implied or happened off screen rather than going full boar on the shock.
Or have her get out of it somehow. I don't know though. I'm against the over-use of rape but overall I'm kind of indifferent. This show is basically torture porn sometimes both physically and mentally.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I honestly don't think that we are better at dealing with victims of physical violence.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I mean even if you argue she didn't know to what extent Ramsay was twisted when she accepted the engagement, the house has a skinless dude as their sigil for Christ's sake.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Bruh you need to think this through more.
And that's really the point, isn't it?
It would have been strange if that scene went down any other way.
Of course she was, there's some unwritten rule that after being treated like shit 3 times in a narrative you're suppose to overcome.
I don't understand how people magically thought she was going to get outta the situation. Anything they could of pulled wouldn't of been believable. Even if Theon killed Ramsay, then what?
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
So I am kinda confused. Are people mad that rape was depicted in the show or just the way it was depicted.
Oh.
I see how this is going.
Very well. The show will continue, it will get massive ratings, and all will be well until the strange and confusing conclusion. For no matter how passionate, our internet arguments amount to very little. And life rolls on.
Thanks for helping me rediscover solid ground on this argument. Have fun.
I see how this is going.
Very well. The show will continue, it will get massive ratings, and all will be well until the strange and confusing conclusion. For no matter how passionate, our internet arguments amount to very little. And life rolls on.
Thanks for helping me rediscover solid ground on this argument. Have fun.
WTF? GoT is full of depraved shit, but that stuff happens every day IRL and has since humans have walked on the planet. If you can't handle that kind of subject matter then don't watch the show.
, so I'm not quite sure why people are surprised, and rape in general is something that probably happens constantly in Westeros, at least compared to our modern day reality/culture, so it definitely wasn't over the top for me.
Ramsay raping Sansa sounds like something that that character would do
metalslimer
Member
I didnt really mind it outside of being uncomfortable. This season has been complete shit though.
The Silver
Member
it's because it was Sansa that it happened to.
if it was a guy or some minor female character no one would've cared that much
Netherscourge
Banned
Game of Thrones is pretty much "torture porn" at this point, so to deviate from that formula would probably lose the show viewership.
It needs the shock value.
Problem is, they're slowly running out of people to torture. Keeping Sansa as the "last pure virgin" in the show was a way to maintain some suspense and keep tension up surrounding her virtue. Look at the close calls she had with Joffrey. That was great tension.
Now, she's just another victim/survivor and it's one less idea to root for.
Arya and Jon Snow are the only two people left that aren't carrying around tons of collateral baggage.
It needs the shock value.
Problem is, they're slowly running out of people to torture. Keeping Sansa as the "last pure virgin" in the show was a way to maintain some suspense and keep tension up surrounding her virtue. Look at the close calls she had with Joffrey. That was great tension.
Now, she's just another victim/survivor and it's one less idea to root for.
Arya and Jon Snow are the only two people left that aren't carrying around tons of collateral baggage.
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
Reading the reviews I'm guessing people are upset because they don't like being reminded rape is a thing.
Aerobatics
Neo Member
i'm not sure trivialize is the right word for what that scene was
VARIA
Member
Yeah, I don't understand the outrage. This show has been brutal from day one. Here's a quote from GRRM explaining sexual violence in his work from an interview last year:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/may/06/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-sexual-violence
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/may/06/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-sexual-violence
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Have we been watching the same show?
PsychoSoldier
Banned
For the record, I ultimately didn't think the scene was necessary---there were a lot of ways to get to where I think they're going without doing what they did. I also felt physically ill---it was awful to watch.
However, I have to think that a lot of people being upset has less to do with what happened than the person attached to it. I never saw the related storyline in the book, which is way way worse, garner this level of outrage, which suggests to me that it has less to do with the actual depiction or structural validity of the scene and more to do with their emotional attachment to the character.
In weird ways, despite the criticism, this show is far tamer in terms of sexual violence than the books are. This not excuse anything the show does, but people who criticize this book simultaneously on book purity and the shows gratuity confuse me. The books are way more gratuitous in many ways.
However, I have to think that a lot of people being upset has less to do with what happened than the person attached to it. I never saw the related storyline in the book, which is way way worse, garner this level of outrage, which suggests to me that it has less to do with the actual depiction or structural validity of the scene and more to do with their emotional attachment to the character.
In weird ways, despite the criticism, this show is far tamer in terms of sexual violence than the books are. This not excuse anything the show does, but people who criticize this book simultaneously on book purity and the shows gratuity confuse me. The books are way more gratuitous in many ways.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The scene was intended to be uncomfortable. It didn't glorify rape and the only people who would have actually liked that scene are degenerates. But given the circumstances Sansa was in, the only two (consistent) options were to show the scene as they did or to simply not show it and imply it happened. But this show has never sanitized the horrible shit that happens to anyone, so I don't really know why it would be expected they would either avoid it happening or not show you that it happened.
Rape, murder and abuse are unfortunately real things that happen to people in the world. The entire purpose of the show is to depict a medieval fantasy where the horrible shit that happens in real life has a serious impact on how events unfold. I just can't say it was gratuitous or didn't lead anywhere because I don't know what the long term plot is for this show or even the books.
well, I suppose the Arya arc is still good
I feel like a lot of this has to do with the fact that a lot of people love Sansa (and the Starks) and also because she's a virgin. If it were a character that isn't beloved getting raped I don't think the level of outrage would be as high. But that's just guessing by me. Poor Sansa
You don't have to guess, there's a handful of people just in this thread saying the rape scene in the books was less bad -- and actually, better writing! -- because it involved a side character who wasn't Sansa.
Ah, so rape is permissible as long as it's a character we don't like.
Well, at least it makes more sense now.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
I'd advise you to re-read my post.
SolidSnakesMyStepDad
Member
Interesting article. I agree with the point he makes.
Let's see. It's the son of the man that betrayed and killed her mother and brother. She sees maimed Theon. Myranda tells her Ramsay killed his girlfriend because she bored him. Yeah, pretty high chance this guy is going to be a mean dude.
D & D wanted to have a rape to shock people but they weren't smart enough to have it make sense. (It makes sense that Ramsay would do it of course. It makes no sense that Sansa would put herself in that position)
Shock who? Book readers know Ramsay rapes his new bride; TV watchers know that Ramsay is a sick fuck who will obviously rape Sansa because that's basically his whole shtick. Who's shocked at all by what happens there?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I disagree. I think it makes the consequences of something horrible less real if you just say something bad happened and don't depict it at all. They didn't show the rape, by the way, they just showed Theon's reaction to it happening.
Moff
Member
well littlefinger put her there, he persuaded her. and we don't know if he really cares about her well being, as far as we know he only wants her to be alive, and the boltons certainly won't kill her, she is far more worth to them alive.
and most of the things you mentioned were only revealed to her after she was already there. she can hardly call a cab back to the vale.
Some people seem to think that because you include dragons you have to make the story take place in happy fantasy land.
The Silver
Member
I think she learned in King's Landing from Tyrion that just because you're the son of someone doesn't make you horrible. She had no idea what to expect of Ramsey when she agreed, once she got there and started seeing Ramsey for what he was it was too late to change her mind.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Within context the rape scene seems appropriate given what we know of Ramsay Bolton. Sansa also knows how brutal he is and chose the lesser of two evils (which goes to show how bad Ramsay actually is).
People who refuse to admit that Game of Thrones doesn't follow genre tropes. She tricked some idiot nobles last year at the Vale so she be able to out maneuver the Boltons after being in Winterfell a week.
blitzcloud
Banned
I don't get it, after all. How did people who are dropping this show because of this scene get past the 13 year old Danny forced by her brother to be raped on the wedding night to a Dothraki leader brute?
That was season 1
That was season 1
hipsterpants
Member
The way it was depicted... whatever. D&D don't have the rep to make it come off as any more than a shock scene.
As a book reader the issue lies with the effect it has on the development of Sansa and Theon. It's just cheap writing to try to get them to a certain point in their story. And people say "well you don't know where it's headed!" Well I can guess with a 90% certainty of what these events lead to by the end of the season.
As a book reader the issue lies with the effect it has on the development of Sansa and Theon. It's just cheap writing to try to get them to a certain point in their story. And people say "well you don't know where it's headed!" Well I can guess with a 90% certainty of what these events lead to by the end of the season.
Moff
Member
ugh, we are saying that to not spoil the non book readers, of course we know where it's heading
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What in the world...
As someone who has read all of the books multiple times but only seen the first season of the show... I think I need to resume watching now that HBO offers an service free from cable television.
It was shocking because it happened to Sansa not because there was a rape on GoT. There was murder in the show before the Red Wedding too. Doesn't mean RW wasn't shocking.
Phat Michael
Banned
I'm pretty sure I saw a pregnant woman get stabbed in the stomach where her baby was killed and then she was murdered in front of her husband. That seemed a fair bit worse to me than what happened at the end of that episode.
Some pretty bad shit happens in game of thrones, it's not really for the faint of heart.
Some pretty bad shit happens in game of thrones, it's not really for the faint of heart.
Warm Machine
Member
Surprising the readers of the book is just as important as surprising regular viewers of the show. Half of the reason people tune In to the show is to see what perverse unexpected shit is going to happen next.
Oh, so you read the book and you know where it's going?
How could that be possible?
She was offered a way out if she wanted out. To light a candle in the tower if she ever needed help.
To be fair, I don't think she's 13 in the show.
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