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[WhiteRabbitEXE]

5MM pays for development, not publishing and advertisment. FanGamer at least will be doing some of the fulfillment. I don't see a reason for him to burn bridges at this point, especially since the KickStarter project wouldn't have happened without a pub.

Not to mention that if the KS were to make 5 million and then lose the publisher, they'd effectively be losing all the money for the promised stretch goals. Plus, no matter what $4.5 million is $4.5 million, so unless the publishing deal was excessively tyrannical there's no real reason to throw it away, especially considering as you said, having a publisher gets them a lot of benefits too. As an additional example, it's likely safe to say there's no way in hell there would be a Kickstarter exclusive physical copy without a publisher lined up.

 

[liliththepale]

Not to mention that if the KS were to make 5 million and then lose the publisher, they'd effectively be losing all the money for the promised stretch goals. Plus, no matter what $4.5 million is $4.5 million, so unless the publishing deal was excessively tyrannical there's no real reason to throw it away, especially considering as you said, having a publisher gets them a lot of benefits too. As an additional example, it's likely safe to say there's no way in hell there would be a Kickstarter exclusive physical copy without a publisher lined up.

Yep. Probably the only upside is having fewer corporate restrictions, but I have to imagine that the pub looking at all of this support (and knowing Igarashi's past) is going to be fairly lax in that department.

 

[Dr.Acula]

5MM pays for development, not publishing and advertisment. FanGamer at least will be doing some of the fulfillment. I don't see a reason for him to burn bridges at this point, especially since the KickStarter project wouldn't have happened without a pub.

Do we know who this publisher is? If they're really small and indie maybe they don't have much of an ad budget. And is the pub really behind the KS? I thought that was Iga going out first.

Iga said he needed to demonstrate value first. So has he gotten any money from the pub at all?

I just think of Fargo and how he wanted WL2 to be completely indie, and how cool the final game was.

edit: naturally if this KS earns like 4.5 mil, you have to keep the pub, but if it hit 8 mil or some crazy number that would be such a different ball game.

 

[ThePinkServbot]

I... I see. Well, I mean, neither of us really has solid numbers to back our opinions so I can't really disagree in any meaningful way. Besides, I think that your idea is really interesting, and I don't particularly care enough to disagree. Though I'll say that spending a lot of time on nerd culture forums (games/books/boardgames/comics/etc) might be skewing your opinion, since people in these types of places generally bark the loudest about whatever it is they feel entitled to at any given time.

Well, yes, being around nerds has certainly given me opinions about nerds. I've got theories about why these things are the way they are, but as far as further clarifying why I see a divide to begin with... Put it this way. There is no Kayaking-gate. There are no Hiking Puppies. There is no concentrated mass of people at Cannes sitting around bitching about how dare that fucking hack Wes Anderson get X amount of money to make his new movie. I can't, however, say these things about nerd hobbies.

 

[liliththepale]

Do we know who this publisher is? If they're really small and indie maybe they don't have much of an ad budget. And is the pub really behind the KS? I thought that was Iga going out first.

Iga said he needed to demonstrate value first. So has he gotten any money from the pub at all?

I just think of Fargo and how he wanted WL2 to be completely indie, and how cool the final game was.

We don't know who the pub is AFAIK, but I'm assuming they fronted the money for the campaign. I could be wrong, but that's a moot point. Iga was expecting around 500K. 500K is not nearly enough to make this game. If he didn't have the confidence of a pub offering 4.5MM behind that, the campaign would have never happened.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Well, yes, being around nerds has certainly given me opinions about nerds. I've got theories about why these things are the way they are, but as far as further clarifying why I see a divide to begin with... Put it this way. There is no Kayaking-gate. There are no Hiking Puppies. There is no concentrated mass of people at Cannes sitting around bitching about how dare that fucking hack Wes Anderson get X amount of money to make his new movie. I can't, however, say these things about nerd hobbies.

As much as I want to respond to multiple parts of this, we've gotten off topic so I'm gonna stop.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Well, yes, being around nerds has certainly given me opinions about nerds. I've got theories about why these things are the way they are, but as far as further clarifying why I see a divide to begin with... Put it this way. There is no Kayaking-gate. There are no Hiking Puppies. There is no concentrated mass of people at Cannes sitting around bitching about how dare that fucking hack Wes Anderson get X amount of money to make his new movie. I can't, however, say these things about nerd hobbies.

a) Cannes loves Wes, b) nerds have a lot of theories about people, c) what is kayaking-gate?

We don't know who the pub is AFAIK, but I'm assuming they fronted the money for the campaign. I could be wrong, but that's a moot point. Iga was expecting around 500K. 500K is not nearly enough to make this game. If he didn't have the confidence of a pub offering 4.5MM behind that, the campaign would have never happened.

Yeah, but the 4.5 is dependent on the KS, the KS is not dependent on anything. I got the sense of the deal being "we can give you 4.5, but you need to prove there's a market for it, come back when you do," and KS was Iga's idea to demonstrate market viability.

I know you had reservations about going indie once you left Konami. What made this suddenly possible?

Koji Igarashi: "I got the courage to go independent because of two well-timed things: Inafune-san's great success with Mighty No. 9, and an agent telling me there was definite interest from a few publishers out there. I've been a creator my entire life, and a creator needs to create. With no real opportunity to do so at my former publisher, I felt it was time to create once more after all these years."

What's keeping Japanese developers off Kickstarter in the numbers we see from Western devs?

KI: "I think crowdfunding is still a very foreign concept and many of these creators just don't know how to build a successful campaign. It was nice to have strong support doing so or I wouldn't have been able to pull it off myself."

The details I received say that the game already has funding -- can you talk about the source of that funding, and why you are also going to Kickstarter?

KI: "All I can say right now is that after over a year of talking with just about every publisher out there, I was able to secure funding for about 90 percent of the game with the condition that I prove the market still wants an Igavania game. Kickstarter proved to be a great solution, as it would (hopefully) show that people still want an Igavania game while simultaneously providing funds for the core game."

Stuff like that leads me to believe that this KS really is Iga going DIY.

 

[ThePinkServbot]

As much as I want to respond to multiple parts of this, we've gotten off topic so I'm gonna stop.

That's fine.

a) Cannes loves Wes, b) nerds have a lot of theories about people, c) what is kayaking-gate?

a) Well, yes, I was just picking A Director, but the point was that the kind of commentary that m Studios was making about IGA, or the kind of shit you see slung at Schafer now, doesn't really exist in the indie (or otherwise, really) film world.

b) I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

c) Kayaking-gate is something that doesn't exist. My point was to show that GamerGate-type mass offenses don't really happen in non-nerd hobby communities.

 

[Dr.Acula]

c) Kayaking-gate is something that doesn't exist. My point was to show that GamerGate-type mass offenses don't really happen in non-nerd hobby communities.

That's an interesting theory. But stuff like Benghazi with trying to destroy the democrats, particularly Hilary (and her e-mail gate too), and deflategate with the witch-hunt for Brady and people wanting his suspended and stuff proves that people love piling on. As big as Gamergate is, it's small potatoes compared to those scandals.

 

[liliththepale]

Yeah, but the 4.5 is dependent on the KS, the KS is not dependent on anything. I got the sense of the deal being "we can give you 4.5, but you need to prove there's a market for it, come back when you do," and KS was Iga's idea to demonstrate market viability.

Even if that's the case (which is not how I've read the situation), I'm doubtful Iga would have ever run this campaign if not for their presence. Again, he thought it would draw about 500K, and that's not nearly enough to make the game.

So yeah, while it might be technically feasible for him to go "full indie" once this campaign runs its course, the campaign wouldn't exist if not spurned on by at least one publisher.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Even if that's the case (which is not how I've read the situation), I'm doubtful Iga would have ever run this campaign if not for their presence. Again, he thought it would draw about 500K, and that's not nearly enough to make the game.

So yeah, while it might be technically feasible for him to go "full indie" once this campaign runs its course, the campaign wouldn't exist if not spurned on by at least one publisher.

Did you watch the 8 hour stream the day the KS was announced? They talked a lot about how a few days before, they all met up at someone's house/apartment and each person gave their guess on how much the KS would raise. Iga's was apparently the lowest guess (they didn't give the exact number). Not really entering your discussion; just thought it was an interesting story.

 

[ThePinkServbot]

That's an interesting theory. But stuff like Benghazi with trying to destroy the democrats, particularly Hilary (and her e-mail gate too), and deflategate with the witch-hunt for Brady and people wanting his suspended and stuff proves that people love piling on. As big as Gamergate is, it's small potatoes compared to those scandals.

Simply scandals and piling on aren't my point, though. Comparing specifically with other hobby and art communities, nerd communities are unique in that they have a tendency to undervalue the artist to the point of accusing them of grifting, a tendency to chop out and shut out "outsiders", and very frequently, a tendency to politicize said hobby in a very specific political direction. I might give you Deflategate, but I don't see, for instance, Pats fans getting swatted.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Did you watch the 8 hour stream the day the KS was announced? They talked a lot about how a few days before, they all met up at someone's house/apartment and each person gave their guess on how much the KS would raise. Iga's was apparently the lowest guess (they didn't give the exact number). Not really entering your discussion; just thought it was an interesting story.

Not surprising Iga wasn't expecting much. Order of Ecclesia, which people enjoyed, won several awards, and reviewed very well only sold like 350,000 copies. That's only like $10m in sales. And that's at retail, not a Kickstarter, with an established IP and a major publisher, on a console with 150,000,000 unit install base.

It's a shame the GBA and DS games didn't get nearly as much attention as they deserved.

Spoiler

though with Konami even if they did sell better Iga would probably still be stuck doing Kickstarter campaigns anyway

 

[liliththepale]

Did you watch the 8 hour stream the day the KS was announced? They talked a lot about how a few days before, they all met up at someone's house/apartment and each person gave their guess on how much the KS would raise. Iga's was apparently the lowest guess (they didn't give the exact number). Not really entering your discussion; just thought it was an interesting story.

Yeah, I saw most of that (skipped one or two of the speed runs). Very interesting and entertaining.

 

[ThePinkServbot]

It's a shame the GBA and DS games didn't get nearly as much attention as they deserved.

I adore these games and everything, but I can very easily see and understand someone starting with SotN, getting to... Let's say Aria, and saying "eh, you know what, I'm going to pass, because I've already played this." They're great, I love them, but they end up being very same-y if you aren't ULTRA IGAFAN #1. So, I understand why they're a little unappreciated.

This being a new property, though, I'm pretty sure that sensation won't be here.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Try Glyph Union attacks?

Thanks that did help. One hit kill on those pesky things.
Are there more than one? I remember at the beginning of the game I had a red dual strike thing, but from the last few levels I have this white blast thing.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Are there more than one? I remember at the beginning of the game I had a red dual strike thing, but from the last few levels I have this white blast thing.

Play around with different combos, two identical glyphs on both buttons should work all the time.
If the combo doesn't work, it makes the white blast.

 

[HellBlazer]

Jim Sterling interviewed IGA about the game and Kickstarter. Some interesting stuff in there.

I like his boss design rule.

Finally, bosses are always a key part of your work. Do you have a rough idea of how many you’ll be adding, what kind of designs you’re going for (I always liked how grotesque most of your prior ones looked) and, most importantly, whether or not you’ll be making your designers do as they did with Symphony of the Night – proving they’re able to beat the bosses they design without losing a single hit-point?

Bosses are one of the most important aspects of my games. We spend a huge amount of time deciding on them, their features, and how they fit into the game world. Because of that we still have a lot of thinking to do on how to approach them. They cannot be rushed. We’re starting with eight, but our stretch goals will allow us to dedicate more of our resources to them. And yes, the person who creates that boss needs to be able to defeat it without taking damage. That is a hard Igavania production rule, and I’m glad that Inti Creates feels equally strongly about this design philosophy.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Jim Sterling interviewed IGA about the game and Kickstarter. Some interesting stuff in there.

I like his boss design rule.

I was about to make that exact same post lol, I really like that quote.

 

[border]

What do you achieve by making your designers beat the boss without losing a single hit point? Except I guess, easier bosses.

 

[YianGaruga]

What do you achieve by making your designers beat the boss without losing a single hit point? Except I guess, easier bosses.

It makes sure that they are fair and don't have bullshit attacks that can't be avoided.

 

[Mivey]

What do you achieve by making your designers beat the boss without losing a single hit point? Except I guess, easier bosses.

That there is a way to do so. It forces them to come up with challenges while still providing fairness. Difficulty is just a mathematical idea anyway, how many lifepoints does the monster have, how powerful are the attacks, et cetera.

edit: beaten

 

[Crocodile]

Nice interview. Thanks for posting. 8 bosses seems on the low side but I'll go and count up the major bosses in the past Igavania games for comparison.

What do you achieve by making your designers beat the boss without losing a single hit point? Except I guess, easier bosses.

It means the boss fights reward gameplay skill and learning their patterns and intricacies rather than being filled with cheap "gotcha" moments. I don't understand how you could even ask this sort of question unless you've never played an Igavania game before. Hell a lot of classic series follow this principle as well (see Megaman - at least the good entries in the series)

 

[TreIII]

Nice interview. Thanks for posting. 8 bosses seems on the low side but I'll go and count up the major bosses in the past Igavania games for comparison.

OoE had 15, for reference.

8 is definitely lower, but I'd be willing to co-sign on the lower number if means more quality bosses and less dead-weights that just seem to be there for the sake of tradition, like Giant Skeleton.

 

[liliththepale]

What's an example of a boss that can't be beaten without getting hit? This might be me being stupid right now, but I can't think of any. I thought it was just common sense that the dev would be able to ace the boss fights.

 

[Jotamide]

What's an example of a boss that can't be beaten without getting hit? This might be me being stupid right now, but I can't think of any. I thought it was just common sense that the dev would be able to ace the boss fights.

The one that hides on walls in OoE.

 

[liliththepale]

The one that hides on walls in OoE.

Isn't that an Igarashi game? I've only watched let's plays of the DS vanias, so I'll take your word for it. Just wasn't expecting a contradictory answer

 

[Rymuth]

Our friend and noted Day 1 stretch goal David Hayter has been a big supporter of the game from the moment he signed on, but he's outdone himself here: He's become a tier. 10 people at the "Play A Hayter" tier (we're sorry) will get to compose a short message for the man himself to read, subject to his approval.

This has *so* much potential.

 

[RoadDogg]

The one that hides on walls in OoE.

Did you maybe mean a boss you can beat without hitting it instead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Nnoc0NeeU

 

[Have a Nice Day]

Ask IGA #2

 

[Jetman]

What's an example of a boss that can't be beaten without getting hit? This might be me being stupid right now, but I can't think of any. I thought it was just common sense that the dev would be able to ace the boss fights.

Grim Reaper in the first Castlevania. Iga didn't come on board with Castlevania until Symphony though, right?

 

[liliththepale]

Grim Reaper in the first Castlevania. Iga didn't come on board with Castlevania until Symphony though, right?

That's my understanding as well, though I was looking for contemporary examples. I just don't think "dev must be able to ace boss fight" is a novel or bold standard today.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

This has *so* much potential.

I want to pay $1,000 for a secret doorway that says "Metal Gear?" when you open it.

 

[ShogunDarius]

24 hour update, $2,570,385 22:15 22/05 up $46,039 Total $430,067

 

[Team Alucard]

That's my understanding as well, though I was looking for contemporary examples. I just don't think "dev must be able to ace boss fight" is a novel or bold standard today.

Depends on the genre. Obviously in any well-designed action game you should be able to beat a boss (or even the entire game if you're skilled enough) without getting hit, but in most RPGs its impossible to avoid taking damage in many fights.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

savage

 

[liliththepale]

Depends on the genre. Obviously in any well-designed action game you should be able to beat a boss (or even the entire game if you're skilled enough) without getting hit, but in most RPGs its impossible to avoid taking damage in many fights.

That's a fair point. I wouldn't expect to escape every fight in Pokemon unscathed. So action-RPGs yes, but not necessarily with pure RPGs.

 

[galvenize]

savage

Someone from here needs to drop a witty neogaf line.

 

[HellBlazer]

24 hour update, $2,570,385 22:15 22/05 up $46,039 Total $430,067

Do feel free to keep updating if you want, but you know that Kicktraq has all the daily data right?

 

[Instro]

Grim Reaper in the first Castlevania. Iga didn't come on board with Castlevania until Symphony though, right?

Lock him up with holy water, no hits.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Do feel free to keep updating if you want, but you know that Kicktraq has all the daily data right?

I appreciate his updates in this thread, which I already visit regularly.

 

[FlashbladeNeo]

Do feel free to keep updating if you want, but you know that Kicktraq has all the daily data right?

Prefer the gaf updates cause I'm lazy.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Also grateful for the update

 

[Regiruler]

savage

Oh my god

NeoGAF needs a collective entry so we can have a Hayter 1 liner to go along with our Xander Mobius clips.

 

[SixMachine]

It might just be me making a lot of assumptions but Bloodstained sounds like the game he wanted to continue after OoE, especially since Shanoa's story didn't end tightly since she just wandered off to do whatever at the end of the game. He said he wanted a female protagonist because of his past games, and things like him talking about Boss design and not getting hit is straight from OoE, because the bosses were actually well designed in that game that you don't need to get hit and you are awarded a medal for beating it that way. And making it so you can beat it without getting hit doesn't entail an easier boss, since OoE had harder bosses than pretty much all the other Metroidvanias. SOTN sadly all the bosses can basically be killed before they move or are just rather weak in general, the weakest part of the game imo. I just hope there isn't an easy way to "cheese" bosses, since they appear in pretty much all metroidvanias. It really makes the encounters insignificant if there is an obvious setup to insta gib them, such as the various broken items in SOTN, summoning cards in COTM, or Death ring + Judgment + Dominus Agony instagibbing bosses in OoE (but to be fair, you die in one, or two hits with heart cuirass and very fast over time in OoE's method).

The one that hides on walls in OoE.

Wait what? Wallman was stupidly easy, you can beat him without getting hit just by hopping back onto the door and holding up, literally takes 2 seconds to kill him.

 

[JackelZXA]

man that iga-asks 2 video...mother fucker just REALLY wants to make fucking games. REALLY WANTS TO SUPER HARD.

 

[Ishida]

If only I had the money....

"Kept your miserable pile of secrets waiting, huh?"

 

[PensivePen]

and things like him talking about Boss design and not getting hit is straight from OoE, because the bosses were actually well designed in that game that you don't need to get hit and you are awarded a medal for beating it that way.

You can avoid all damage from the bosses in any of the igavanias. At least I don't remember any that had impossible to avoid attacks.

 

[SixMachine]

You can avoid all damage from the bosses in any of the igavanias. At least I don't remember any that had impossible to avoid attacks.

Yea I know (reading my post over, I don't think I imply that you need to get hit from bosses). OoE is the only game that rewards you for not getting hit though with a medal, even if it does nothing. Most bosses are typically easy in metroidvanias to be honest. As I mentioned in my post, many SOTN bosses can die before they get an attack off, not to mention so many ways to become basically become unhittable like using a potion or turning into a mist. In DoS I found it hilarious how Soma had that one soul which was just a chair (I forgot what it's called but it has a bunch of skeletons carrying him) and it made him invincible. You can have Paranoia's lasers and Abaddon's locust pass right through you. I can understand why Iga always puts these things in these games, but I sort of hope he tones down on making some things too abuseable which can make the game too easy once you find that one thing that works, since all metroidvanias have some pretty imbalanced stuff in them (which is part of the charm when replaying them, which contradicts what I just said in a way).

Thinking about the boss that might take the most effort to kill might be the Dragon Heads in thief mode of COTM. If you could use any cards, you can do that glitch to get access to any card even ones you don't have, and there were some that did attacks that gave you invulnerability frames like the summoning ones. In thief mode you only had sub weapons, so you couldn't abuse the DSS and you weren't a tank like Gradius mode, so you had to take effort in not getting hit and couldnt' really gib the boss really fast.

 

[Creaking]

Thinking about the boss that might take the most effort to kill might be the Dragon Heads in thief mode of COTM. If you could use any cards, you can do that glitch to get access to any card even ones you don't have, and there were some that did attacks that gave you invulnerability frames like the summoning ones. In thief mode you only had sub weapons, so you couldn't abuse the DSS and you weren't a tank like Gradius mode, so you had to take effort in not getting hit and couldnt' really gib the boss really fast.

You mean Hunter mode. That's the one that gave you stronger subweapons and homing daggers. Thief boosts your luck, weakens your stats, but still gives you access to the DSS cards.

/pedantic