Fighting Games Weekly | June 1-7 | QAisTopTier

Anytime a game has any reputation for "depth", that term will be nebulously construed by more causal interests as "hard" or "inaccessible", even if on a subconscious level.

That's why advertising a fighting game being deep is dumb marketing.

The fact that VF tries to teach and presents so much information is part of its problem.

Gonna re-download it today.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
I started out playing VF casually, then learnt the ropes on SF4 and MvC3, then went back to VF5FS.

Made me wonder how on earth VF ever got a reputation for being "too hard." Execution-wise, it's piss easy as long as you're not dependent on a bunch of just-frame moves.

Multiple throw escapes was the only system-wide mechanic that I remember being tough, but FS did away with all of that anyway.
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I think it's largely historical, with stuff like the multiple throw breaks and the multi-layered (but mostly fair) defensive OSs. That and the community has always been very up-front with treating the frame data as important. It's not so absurd now, but remember that AM2 made that information available since the mid 90s, which was completely unheard of back then, especially in the US. That and the game has a high skill ceiling, even if the progression really isn't that rough. The game is also very stable in terms of mechanical randomness, which means that even a marginally worse player is going to stack Ls in a match-up.

I also think the game's art style (or lack thereof) hurts it. The first few games got by on the fact they were at the bleeding edge for real-time computer graphics.
 
CGoqG1PUgAAwltc.jpg


It's kind of hilarious how SNK is promoting their new Fatal Fury game. There's more than one female in FF, SNK.
 
Kumubou said:
I think it's largely historical, with stuff like the multiple throw breaks and the multi-layered (but mostly fair) defensive OSs. That and the community has always been very up-front with treating the frame data as important. It's not so absurd now, but remember that AM2 made that information available since the mid 90s, which was completely unheard of back then, especially in the US. That and the game has a high skill ceiling, even if the progression really isn't that rough. The game is also very stable in terms of mechanical randomness, which means that even a marginally worse player is going to stack Ls in a match-up.

I also think the game's art style (or lack thereof) hurts it. The first few games got by on the fact they were at the bleeding edge for real-time computer graphics.
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I didn't like the art direction at first but I appreciate it more after playing it. It seems default and bland but it isn't, it's very much like a "videogame". It feels like the design aesthetics from the dreamcast era but in a modern HD game, and works well with the sort of game it is.

Makes it incredibly uninteresting as an unfamiliar spectator, though.
 
call_kotaku said:
VF5FS really has one of the best-designed systems in fighting games, and presents itself very clearly. It also teaches you a lot about fighting games in general. .
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Yeah, its rock/paper/scissors approach is simple to explain and is all you really need to know to get started.

I already feel comfortable with Jean's essential moves even though I haven't spent all that much time with the game overall and haven't really played a 3D fighter in forever.

oneida said:
Where you located? you need offline sets and I'm ready to play cupid
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Mississauga, Ontario, Canada.

Though I would probably rather stick to arcade mode for now and maybe some online later, need to get a hang of the core gameplay first and get into that comfort zone instead of wasting people's time hehe.

Kimosabae said:
Anytime a game has any reputation for "depth", that term will be nebulously construed by more causal interests as "hard" or "inaccessible", even if on a subconscious level.

That's why advertising a fighting game being deep is dumb marketing.

The fact that VF tries to teach and presents so much information is part of its problem.

Gonna re-download it today.
Click to expand...

Check out DandyJ's tutorial and also the quick official tutorials Sega released when the game came out, it's pretty easy to get started and have fun quickly (as soon as you figure out who you want to play, Jean was an easy pick for me).

You can also look up LA Akira's tutorial with Ultra David and James Chen, really comprehensive.

Kumubou said:
I also think the game's art style (or lack thereof) hurts it. The first few games got by on the fact they were at the bleeding edge for real-time computer graphics.
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VF5FS is probably my fave looking 3D fighter, and has the best animation. Really like how distinct the body types for the characters are.
 
Jack-O'

COMMAND NORMALS
6 + K
3 + HS

SPECIAL ATTACKS
Special Attack: Overhead (5D)
Special Attack: Projectile (j.D)
Special Attack: Throw (6D | Air OK)
Special Attack: Attack Throw (4D | Air OK)
Special Attack: Rushing Move (2D | Air OK)
Place a Ghost (22 + P/K/S)
Pick up a Ghost (2 + P/K/S near a Ghost)
* Place (2 + P/K/S)
* Put away (4 + P/K/S)
* Throw (6 + P/K/S)
Organ Deployment (22 + HS)
* Recover a Ghost (P)
* Speed Up (K)
* Explode (S)
* Defend (HS)
* Cancel (D)

OVERDRIVES
Overdrive no.1 (236 + D or 236236 + D when BURST gauge is full | Air OK]
Overdrive no.2 (360 + D | Air OK)
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http://www.dustloop.com/forums/inde...-gameplay-discussion-2-console-is-out/page-79
Looks like the GG character have a Smash moves set. Can't wait to see how she plays.
 
I've heard this song so many times. "VF is unpopular because it's hard, lacks flash, and the characters are bland." I'll point out that Soul Calibur is in some ways a flashier, easier VF with more extravagant character designs, and while undeniably SC has a much much larger casual scene, the competitive scene is currently smaller than VF. So if VF's "problem" is that there aren't enough people playing the game competitively outside Japan, I would argue that the solution be to rename it Street Fighter. There are a LOT of games with small competitive communities.

BadWolf said:
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada.

Though I would probably rather stick to arcade mode for now and maybe some online later, need to get a hang of the core gameplay first and get into that comfort zone instead of wasting people's time hehe.
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Isn't that near A&C? they have a healthy VF gathering with some strong players. highly highly recommend stopping by!
 
Kumubou said:
I also think the game's art style (or lack thereof) hurts it. The first few games got by on the fact they were at the bleeding edge for real-time computer graphics.
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I've always felt like it had a tech demo aesthetic, if that makes any sense. When I was younger I thought all the 3D fighting games were pretty boring visually, and too similar to each other. Kid me couldn't tell Tekken and Virtua Fighter apart.
 
oneida said:
I've heard this song so many times. "VF is unpopular because it's hard, lacks flash, and the characters are bland." I'll point out that Soul Calibur is in some ways a flashier, easier VF with more extravagant character designs, and while undeniably SC has a much much larger casual scene, the competitive scene is currently smaller than VF. So if VF's "problem" is that there aren't enough people playing the game competitively outside Japan, I would argue that the solution be to rename it Street Fighter. There are a LOT of games with small competitive communities.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's a good point.

It's really just a huge decline in interest for 3D fighting games especially in the US. It's hard to pin point exactly what brought about the change... I think the switch from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 brought about this decline.

If I had to make a guess, then I would say that it's because at that point 3D fighting games stopped being among the best looking games around in gaming. On PS1 and even PS2 era they were among the best looking games but now they are on a much lower tier. People except more graphically from 3D fighters compared to 2D fighter.
 
Is the new VF5 update that was recently announced still happening or is the series dead after Sega started clearing developers from various areas to focus on mobile?

oneida said:
Isn't that near A&C? they have a healthy VF gathering with some strong players. highly highly recommend stopping by!
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Nah, it's about 3 hours there and back from where I live by public transport.
 
What makes Virtua Fighter "harder" than any other fighting game?

How is Virtua Fighter FS online? I never really tried it.


Even though I didn't really mind Danger Time I'm glad it's gone. I think Clash on its own is more interesting.
 
Dahbomb said:
Yeah that's a good point.

It's really just a huge decline in interest for 3D fighting games especially in the US. It's hard to pin point exactly what brought about the change... I think the switch from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 brought about this decline.

If I had to make a guess, then I would say that it's because at that point 3D fighting games stopped being among the best looking games around in gaming. On PS1 and even PS2 era they were among the best looking games but now they are on a much lower tier. People except more graphically from 3D fighters compared to 2D fighter.
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It's true that the franchise isn't as much of a spectacle as it once was. When VF3 dropped in 1996, _nothing_ looked as good. Period. That was no longer the case when VF4 was released, although I still think that game is gorgeous it doesn't stand out as much. In this regard, it doesn't matter that 4 was far more competitively sound, not in the West.
VF5FS is a fighting game for people who really like fighting games. It's niche and will continue to be niche as long as it puts gameplay first.

Which is fine with me.
 
El Sloth said:
I've always felt like it had a tech demo aesthetic, if that makes any sense. When I was younger I thought all the 3D fighting games were pretty boring visually, and too similar to each other. Kid me couldn't tell Tekken and Virtua Fighter apart.
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This is was totally me, which is why I was amazed by Battle Arena Toshinden. It was the first 3D fighter I came across that had any kind of flair to it.
 
Kimosabae said:
What makes Virtua Fighter "harder" than any other fighting game?

How is Virtua Fighter FS online? I never really tried it.


Even though I didn't really mind Danger Time I'm glad it's gone. I think Clash on its own is more interesting.
Click to expand...
VF is only as hard as reading your opponent. The commands combos and OSes are really easy.

Very good netcode. TT2/SCV tier easily. XBL is mostly a ghost town, finding games on PSN is not too hard.
 
A lot of money up for grabs at EVO.

USF4- $50k pot bonus
KI- $50k pot bonus
MKX- $50k pot bonus

I think Aksys and Arc Sys might do a pot bonus for Xrd. Hopefully Atlus will too for Persona. Not sure about Tekken 7

Not really expecting anything for the Smash games and Marvel.
 
oneida said:
VF is only as hard as reading your opponent. The commands combos and OSes are really easy.
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Yeah I was watching tournament vids on your channel yesterday and there were two awesome Jean players (one always has Jean in an all white outfit and the other a blue haired rocker type) and they were so impressive, however, on a technical level it didn't feel like they were doing much that I wouldn't be able to pull of.

The depth was in the mind games.
 
oneida said:
VF is only as hard as reading your opponent. The commands combos and OSes are really easy.

Very good netcode. TT2/SCV tier easily. XBL is mostly a ghost town, finding games on PSN is not too hard.
Click to expand...


"VF is unpopular because it's hard, lacks flash, and the characters are bland."

I was referring to that, but I missed the quotes DB was using and the general context. Thought that was a weird statement coming from you.
 
oneida said:
I've heard this song so many times. "VF is unpopular because it's hard, lacks flash, and the characters are bland." I'll point out that Soul Calibur is in some ways a flashier, easier VF with more extravagant character designs, and while undeniably SC has a much much larger casual scene, the competitive scene is currently smaller than VF. So if VF's "problem" is that there aren't enough people playing the game competitively outside Japan, I would argue that the solution be to rename it Street Fighter. There are a LOT of games with small competitive communities.


Isn't that near A&C? they have a healthy VF gathering with some strong players. highly highly recommend stopping by!
Click to expand...

I'd like to get into VF. If FS or 6 or whatever comes to Steam and it's a good port with good netcode then I'll buy it. Only thing I dislike about VF (other than it being hard as fuck to get into) is the extremely high damage.

Also, relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijesuHrIKn8
 
I have always loved VF and I have shit execution. Its not a hard game, Id consider anime games harder to pick up due to the weirdo attacks and movement ranges. I never hearn combos or do training mode but I can do ok sometimes in VF because you can deal insane dammy off of mindgames.

I live in Vancouver and Im thinking of re installing vf5 fs on my PS3 since I dont have time to learn other games. If anyone here wants to play lmk.
 
Dahbomb said:
It's really just a huge decline in interest for 3D fighting games especially in the US. It's hard to pin point exactly what brought about the change... I think the switch from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 brought about this decline.
Click to expand...

You sort of touched upon this yourself, but I seriously think it's as simple as the fact that 2D fighters have 3D graphics now.
 
Coffeeling said:
This is hilarious, because SC2's mechanics and the resulting system dynamics are completely different from those of Brood War, a legacy of it being designed as a far more small scale game than BW was or what SC2 is nowadays. The joke is that the devs refuse to address those basic incentives and try to artificially make rules that eg. encourage certain expansion patterns and just make bigger maps and whatnot.
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I based this on the fact that the audience seems to have moved on from SC to SC2. If SC2 was as big of a failure as the jump from Melee to Brawl (I don't play SC so I can't really say exactly) it would've been a lucrative strategy to try and please those hardcore fans that are looking for something worthy of being "the new Starcraft". Again, I'm not basing this on how SC2 is, because I can't tell.

Also, I don't think the Melee crowd needs to move on, my question is why no company has tried and grab the same audience.
 
Yeah, there's no suitable replacement or even analog for Melee, so there's no need to move on to another game.

Yeah, I've brought up the confounding issue of why more FG developers haven't looked to that game as a source of inspiration in myriad ways - from a mechanics to marketing standpoint. You'd think it'd be a case-study in the FG development community on how to please both hardcore and casual fans but apparently not.

Even Nintendo themselves are too stupid to realize what a mahvel Melee is.
 
VF is absolutely the easiest fighting game I've ever tried to play (not the scrubbiest, but easiest). A very large portion of the game is played with basic universal tools and accessing the "core" gameplay requires next to no execution.

Fudgepuppy said:
I based this on the fact that the audience seems to have moved on from SC to SC2. If SC2 was as big of a failure as the jump from Melee to Brawl (I don't play SC so I can't really say exactly) it would've been a lucrative strategy to try and please those hardcore fans that are looking for something worthy of being "the new Starcraft". Again, I'm not basing this on how SC2 is, because I can't tell.

Also, I don't think the Melee crowd needs to move on, my question is why no company has tried and grab the same audience.
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Mobas are the new starcraft, more or less.
 
I picked up SG too. Game and all DLC for just under $7. So good.

Picking up Beowulf and big band. Might use double as a third.

Forgot how much I loved this game.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
I started out playing VF casually, then learnt the ropes on SF4 and MvC3, then went back to VF5FS.

Made me wonder how on earth VF ever got a reputation for being "too hard." Execution-wise, it's piss easy as long as you're not dependent on a bunch of just-frame moves.

Multiple throw escapes was the only system-wide mechanic that I remember being tough, but FS did away with all of that anyway.
Click to expand...

Sidestep multiple dodge escapes in VF4 evo... and everything to do with Akira basically
 
if people mash in VF it's hilariously easy to get Perfects on them with 2-3 setups. I have a Goh set up off of his 66P that does 90%+ dmg if the opponent hits a button twice

/edit actually they just have to hit a button once after 66P hits CH
 
I don't understand what tut 18 is trying to teach me.

It says you can input 33G to avoid mids and throws. Whenever I do this to avoid the cpu's mids - it does no followup. It only does a followup (mixing up between throw and mids) if I get hit by the initial attacks. If I block a mid with the throw break/guard OS, it counts it as a success. If I break a throw followup, it doesn't.


wat
 
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