Support NeoGAF

[joecanada]

They did nerf special ammo though. And Shotties are rather poor from beyond close range.

Spoiler

They could remove blink

FR nerf was sort of pointless, though they did hit from ridiculous range sometimes. I had some hilarious matches with Plan C which felt like easy mode at times.

ya but think about this, everyone who calls for nerfs.... if they had never nerfed anything at all... we would have the following "OP" guns...

suros
vex
thorn
fate
hawk
fusion rifles
shotguns
snipers
red death


......... sounds pretty goddamn balanced to me

sure one may be ridiculous like say the original vex but still ....

 

[Twilight Gap]

That all falls apart though when you start using exotics, when something like thorn is basically a combat casualty with a body shot and the DoT.

I should not be having sniper battles with handcannons.

Then again I have a tough time judging handcannons because all I ever see is Thorn.

thorn is an exception because it has no drawbacks and dominates the meta right now. its better to ignore it when discussing overall game balance.

 

[E92 M3]

I'd rather see Thorn nerfed than everything else buffed to be up to par.

It is probably the best overall pvp weapon in the game currently.

Just buff everything else, because you know if Bungie touches it they will ruin it.

Its a hand cannon with a 2 shot headshot, a bleed and what seems like the same range as a scout rifle. On its own it is bearable, when an entire team uses it then it's evident this weapon is too powerful.

IB has become a nightmare after people have realised how much it dominated in ToO.

I've played a ton of trials and while Thorn is good - it's not the end of the world. There are strategies around it.

 

[joecanada]

How's Plan C in PvP? Thinking of using Messenger/Plan C.

Its okay ... the nerf supposedly was not applied properly but it sure as hell is now... so you will be fighting mainly shotguns now, even at medium range most fusions are pretty bad and I've encountered a bad glitch where when being shot/taking damage, a full FR shot goes right through people registering zero damage (maybe thats the spread of the nerf but its bad)....

so I would say you are about a month late to the party but its still viable. just you cant shoot first against shotgun so you will need to precharge or get good at swap-shoot which on PLAN C is great.

 

[Namikaze1]

Double Elder Cipher for my Warlock and the Pulse Rifle. Looks like I'm getting Lord of Wolves on my Titan and Queensbow Breaker on my Warlock.

 

[Twilight Gap]

biased me has no problem with thorn being nerfed into the ground. id imagine its how people felt about the OG mythoclast. the vex didnt snipe in 2 shots though

fuck destiny's meta right now.

 

[Ken]

Any IB trains?

 

[everyday math]

I don't think there is currently an issue with it.

Best explanation I could find...

https://www.bungie.net/uR/Forum/Post/87041636/0/0

EDIT: Well, shit. I guess I'm supposed to do something at the top 'o the page here.

Some one did say this tho in the comments.

There's one thing you didn't test. Explosive rounds paired with damage modifying perks(luck in the chamber, final round, even weapons of light)

Explosive rounds are better in most situations unless you have one of those perks on the gun or buff active. A lucky bullet or final round explosive shot does less damage then a non explosive hit. The explosive damage stays the same and isn't affected by the damage modifier and only the non explosive portion of the damage receives the damage multiplier.

 

[PuMa]

biased me has no problem with thorn being nerfed to shit. id imagine its how people felt about the OG mythoclast. the vex didnt snipe in 2 shots though

fuck destiny's meta right now.

I can't wait for the weekly update to say nothing about it.

Fuuuuucckkkk it

 

[Kor of Memory]

ya but think about this, everyone who calls for nerfs.... if they had never nerfed anything at all... we would have the following "OP" guns...

suros
vex
thorn
fate
hawk
fusion rifles
shotguns
snipers
red death


......... sounds pretty goddamn balanced to me

sure one may be ridiculous like say the original vex but still ....

Except the game would be a mess because the average TTK would be <1 second. Which would turn the game into find the best hiding spot and wait for someone stupid enough to actually explore the map.

 

[doomquake]

Crucible is purple rain nowadays...why.

 

[PuMa]

Some one did say this tho in the comments.

Hmm, that is interesting. I know they recently fixed how explosive rounds affect/don't affect the white nail perks. I wonder if that had any impact on other perks. That thread was kind of old.

 

[Kyne]

There's no way bungie hasn't realized thorn has been used by 80% of the population in ToO for the last two weeks. Incoming nerf.

 

[joecanada]

I don't think there is currently an issue with it.

Best explanation I could find...

https://www.bungie.net/uR/Forum/Post/87041636/0/0

EDIT: Well, shit. I guess I'm supposed to do something at the top 'o the page here.

well thanks for this, explosive rounds are certainly not useless in pvp but the 3-4 damage for a scout no less is pretty bad...

however I will test timurs lash with explosive rounds to see if I can get a better result, problem being it is still a 2.5 body shot kill and explosive rounds aren't likely to change that. If it would do 5 damage you could get a 2 headshot but that also is unlikely....


the disorientation is okay though but I can tell you I tried to use my B Line Trauma with explosive against snipers in ToO and it didn't work well. a bit of splash around corners but did not stop them sniping me.

 

[Dunlop]

Anyone still need nightfall?

Psn Dunlop75

 

[SkylineRKR]

There's no way bungie hasn't realized thorn has been used by 80% of the population in ToO for the last two weeks. Incoming nerf.

I guess everyone will switch to Red Death in that case.

 

[E92 M3]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

There will always be a weapon used by everyone.

 

[LiK]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

They nerfed my beloved ARs. Time to suffer like us!

 

[RickyRozay]

Need one more for poe 34. Psn Akademik209

 

[Zocano]

fuck destiny's meta right now.

Is it ever not long range two shots + close range one shots?

 

[E92 M3]

They nerfed my beloved ARs. Time to suffer like us!

I've been suffering since the kiddies complained about the original Vex and got it nerfed into the ground. Bungie should have just banned it from PVP and left it as an awesome weapon.

 

[joecanada]

I guess everyone will switch to Red Death in that case.

and more shotguns than ever before... everything always leads back to shotguns because they always nerf the mid range weapons... anyway hawkmoon and TLW will still be out there unless they nerf handcannon range more then it will be back to auto rifles and scouts like read deth and juju ...

people will always bitch it won't end.

 

[Kyne]

I guess everyone will switch to Red Death in that case.

Maybe. I'll stick with TLW. Vex/RedD/Hawk/Mida would all become much more viable.

Edit: my dream patch list would be a nerf to thorn and a buff to auto rifles.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

The funny thing about Thorn is that it should've never been buffed in the first place. The shit was already really good in pvp. People just didn't use it because it had a stigma that it was shit just because it was a horrible pve gun.

If they could just balance their guns separately then this wouldn't be a problem. But nope, pve fucks over pvp and vice versa.

They did it right with how they handled shotguns.

Edit: and just to be clear, I actually have no issues with Thorn. I think the gun is fine. The range might be a bit much and that's the only thing I would nerf.

 

[MagnetoWasRight]

Kotaku agrees on the thorn hate: http://kotaku.com/preview/it-s-hard-not-to-hate-destiny-s-best-pvp-gun-1709085440

 

[Namikaze1]

Skolas down!

 

[LiK]

I've been suffering since the kiddies complained about the original Vex and got it nerfed into the ground. Bungie should have just banned it from PVP and left it as an awesome weapon.

Vex is still my primary PVP gun. Even with the nerf, I still love it. It's a good replacement for an AR lol

 

[nOoblet16]

thorn is an exception because it has no drawbacks and dominates the meta right now. its better to ignore it when discussing overall game balance.

Yep eventhough I feel like both TLW and Thorn need a nerf and/or the other weapon class need to be more viable option (better guns with more unique perks and better TTK)...I realise that Thorn needs it much much more than TLW. It's because it has too many advantages and no disadvantage except for having a relatively shit sight.

It disorientates the enemies, it kills fast, it does a lot of damage, it rewards body shots, it is accurate at long range and can even battle a sniper often, it works in small range and the DoT !!!

 

[doomquake]

Amazing how bad ARs are now in regular crucible. Actually in IB also. All I see are thorns.

 

[Byron Bluth]

Skolas down!

Niiiiiice!

Any primaries?

I've only seen the HC drop. Got it today myself.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

The goal isn't to ruin. It's to balance. Player skill, player comp, and player builds are enough to have to "overcome." When a gun has a clear, factual, statistical imbalance in either direction... It needs to be adjusted.

 

[Truelize]

Oh wow! I just got another Radegast's Fury that rolled with Tripod (holds three shells) and Tracking.

So sweet!

 

[Namikaze1]

Niiiiiice!

Any primaries?

I've only seen the HC drop. Got it today myself.

Noomi andi got the Pulse Rifle. I got the bounty while Noomi completed a step on the bounty.

 

[Ramirez]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

There will always be a weapon used by everyone.

If a weapon requires no skill to use, then yes, I would love for it to be knocked down. It has nothing to do with crying, I play games to have fun, fighting against multiple Thorns isn't fun. There's a huge selection of weapons in Destiny, but unless you want to put cement blocks on your feet, you're only able to use 1 or 2 and remain competitive against the best players, that's shit design.

Buffing EVERY weapon, instead of nerfing the couple that are obviously head and shoulders above the rest makes absolutely no sense.

I just find it hard to believe you enjoy beating a Thorn user, then dying to the dot 2 seconds later, really rewarding gameplay!

 

[E92 M3]

Vex is still my primary PVP gun. Even with the nerf, I still love it. It's a good replacement for an AR lol

No where near how it was for PVE back in the day.

--

I'm sure everyone is going to cheer once Thorn gets ruined and then I hope another OP weapon appears that people will complain about. In fact, since it makes people so mad I'm going to use Thorn in Trials.

If a weapon requires no skill to use, then yes, I would love for it to be knocked down. It has nothing to do with crying, I play games to have fun, fighting against multiple Thorns isn't fun. There's a huge selection of weapons in Destiny, but unless you want to put cement blocks on your feet, you're only able to use 1 or 2 and remain competitive against the best players, that's shit design.

Buffing EVERY weapon, instead of nerfing the couple that are obviously head and shoulders above the rest makes absolutely no sense.

Most of the weapons are garbage with slow TTK - they need to be buffed then people wouldn't complain about Thorn.

 

[Owensboro]

Anyone still need nightfall?

Psn Dunlop75

I need it one more time if you're still looking for people.

PSN: OwensboroEsq

(Man, all this chatting to get groups is reminding me of vanilla WoW).

 

[nOoblet16]

No where near how it was for PVE back in the day.

--

I'm sure everyone is going to cheer once Thorn gets ruined and then I hope another OP weapon appears that people will complain about. In fact, since it makes people so mad I'm going to use Thorn in Trials.

As for Vex, well it was just OP back in the day. It's a top tier weapon now which has some drawbacks, but even it needs some fixes like better hit response for people who are getting hit by it. It kills relatively quick and you don't even feel like getting hit by it until you are about to die.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

There will always be a weapon used by everyone.

I mean, there's overcoming a challenge, and there's handicapping yourself for no real reason. If you want something to have high level competitive play, there needs to be balancing either through nerfs and buffs, or through limitations. It's why characters in fighting games get nerfed or buffed. It's why characters and items in MOBAs get nerfed or buffed. It's just a reality of competitive play and Bungie obviously wants Destiny to have that.

 

[MandrakeUK]

Im doing a nightfall, if anyone needs it jump in.

PSN: MandrakeUK

 

[Byron Bluth]

Noomi andi got the Pulse Rifle. I got the bounty while Noomi completed a step on the bounty.

The same one that is being sold or a different one?

Congrats to you all. I am waiting for Variks to summon me on two ciphers right now.

 

[ph1l0z0ph3r]

So stealth brag time but this just happend in Iron Banner

Problem is it seems Felwinter isn't as strong as it used to be and I already have Party Crasher

No idea what to do here. Any ideas gaf? Whichever one I end up sticking with as my pvp shotgun is getting an etheric light put in.

 

[Havok]

Power creep is a real, dangerous concept in long-term balance efforts like Destiny. Nerfs keep it from getting out of hand. A no-nerfs-ever mentality is amusing, but ultimately very misguided.

 

[Namikaze1]

I'm gonna get the Ar. I'm gonna get the AR.
*does the judgement roll*
I got the AR. *flips table*

The same one that is being sold or a different one?

Same one but with an elemental burn. Mine is solar

 

[Orthogonal]

Oh wow! I just got another Radegast's Fury that rolled with Tripod (holds three shells) and Tracking.

So sweet!

That sounds fantastic. What element? Arc or Void would be nice in a RL like that.

 

[Twilight Gap]

I dont know how anyone can be happy about weapons being ruined. I guess my overall mentality in life and video games is to figure out how to overcome problems, not have them changed for me.

That said, I know Bungie will nerf it because of all the people crying.

There will always be a weapon used by everyone.

this is a game though and it can be changed if it isnt working as intended. the player base has had 6 months to adapt to the thorn meta by effectively forgoing most of the weapon sandbox. the only problem left to overcome is to figure out a way to make the rest of the sandbox relevant again.

 

[Hawkian]

Braced frame. :/

Kinda sucks with the low mag already.
Edit: if I wouldn't keep the current perks.

Braced frame is perfect for it. You increase the chances of proccing the extra damage with the lower mag and can fire quickly without losing accuracy. Awesome roll.

 

[Orthogonal]

So stealth brag time but this just happend in Iron Banner

Problem is it seems Felwinter isn't as strong as it used to be and I already have Party Crasher

No idea what to do here. Any ideas gaf? Whichever one I end up sticking with as my pvp shotgun is getting an etheric light put in.

All 3, one for each character.

 

[Byron Bluth]

I'm gonna get the Ar. I'm gonna get the AR.
*does the judgement roll*
I got the AR. *flips table*


Same one but with an elemental burn. Mine is solar

Nice!! I guess it's the same as ToO.

So stealth brag time but this just happend in Iron Banner

Problem is it seems Felwinter isn't as strong as it used to be and I already have Party Crasher

No idea what to do here. Any ideas gaf? Whichever one I end up sticking with as my pvp shotgun is getting an etheric light put in.

Do all of these shotguns just drop in PvP as the only way to get them?

 

[Orthogonal]

Nice!! I guess it's the same as ToO.



Do all of these shotguns just drop in PvP as the only way to get them?

Yep, crucible only drops. Felwinters possible IB vendor item in the future.

 

[E92 M3]

As for Vex, well it was just OP back in the day. It's a top tier weapon now which has some drawbacks, but even it needs some fixes like better hit response for people who are getting hit by it. It kills relatively quick and you don't even feel like getting hit by it until you are about to die.

Vex was a fantastic PVE weapon for a difficult challenge. I would've rather it was banned from PVP, then "balanced" by Bungie. Of course they corrected it later, but it was never the same.

In terms of being that guy, I just never liked people crying for nerfs. The nerf culture has ruined many good games.

I mean, there's overcoming a challenge, and there's handicapping yourself for no real reason. If you want something to have high level competitive play, there needs to be balancing either through nerfs and buffs, or through limitations. It's why characters in fighting games get nerfed or buffed. It's why characters and items in MOBAs get nerfed or buffed. It's just a reality of competitive play and Bungie obviously wants Destiny to have that.

And my definition of balance is not taking the leader and chopping the balls off. Have the weaklings brought up a bit. Also, Destiny isn't a super competitive shooter and it doesn't have to be.

this is a game though and it can be changed if it isnt working as intended. the player base has had 6 months to adapt to the thorn meta by effectively forgoing most of the weapon sandbox. the only problem left to overcome is to figure out a way to make the rest of the sandbox relevant again.

A lot of problems with today's culture is that people are used to participation trophies and when they encounter problems they just want them to go away instead of overcoming it themselves. Seriously, just look at how many people blame other factors except themselves for deaths incurred in PVP.

Sometimes there is a lot of legitimate lag, but most of the time, the person doesn't want to admit their mistake.

I'm down arguing this because Bungie will obviously declaw Thorn and that'll be that.