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[Funky Papa]

GUYS.

No book talk, please, even if it's obtuse or you are clearly addressing some other gaffer in non spoilery manner. Mods are watching like crows.

 

[Future]

The only foreshadowing in the books is done by melisandre. And it's not "LOL YOU GON BE BLIND" level. More subtle, sometimes means nothing too.

Only problem with the show is that the seasons are so short that there is no way you can remember that shit when you watch a new season. But it makes re watching previous seasons more rewarding I'm sure than almost any other show. If shows like Lost had been this consistent throughout it would have been amazing

 

[Taiser]

my guess:

Melisandre is still at castle black...
Jon will be 'lord of the light necro'ed'.

 

[Sword Familiar]

GUYS.

No book talk, please, even if it's obtuse or you are clearly addressing some other gaffer in non spoilery manner. Mods are watching like crows.

I was only referring to the whole "the show has caught up to the books, except in some parts". Seems like the only way they'll even get a new season would be if GRRM rushed out another book, or they just make stuff up as they go along. Both equally bad.

 

[Blader]

Also, was this the biggest swerve ever given by a recap? When it brought up Benjen Stark for like the first time in 5 years, I thought for sure he was actually going to make an appearance... nope, just a pretense to kill Jon.

Maybe I was the only one fooled by it, but it was a pretty effective subversion for me.

I was only referring to the whole "the show has caught up to the books, except in some parts". Seems like the only way they'll even get a new season would be if GRRM rushed out another book, or they just make stuff up as they go along. Both equally bad.

The showrunners know what happens regardless of when GRRM publishes the books.

 

[Team Filler]

And with that episode I think I'm officially done with this show. It has fantastic world-building, but even the moments they want to be cathartic don't feel like catharsis to me. Maybe I'll revisit it down the road but at this point the only character left standing that I enjoy seeing progress in story is Tyrion, and his one hour of progress out of 10 isn't enough to keep me watching.

Hey D&D and GRRM, how about this for a shocking twist in storytelling: maybe the characters you telegraph to be caricatured bad guys could defy expectations for a change.

 

[Shuggananas]

Only problem with the show is that the seasons are so short that there is no way you can remember that shit when you watch a new season. But it makes re watching previous seasons more rewarding I'm sure than almost any other show. If shows like Lost had been this consistent throughout it would have been amazing

Meh, they use the "previously on" segments for that, which is pretty stupid because if you think two seconds it spoils a lot of stuff that could happen (this episode, showing the whole mountain experimentation things for example)

 

[ComputerBlue]

GUYS.

No book talk, please, even if it's obtuse or you are clearly addressing some other gaffer in non spoilery manner. Mods are watching like crows.

Yeah, this thread is a mess right now.

 

[Fenderputty]

So does red witch see in vague possibilities of the future or what? She clearly looked happy that the snow was melting but then knew something was bad the moment she heard his men were bailing on him. She bailed herself.

 

[Deku Tree]

Jon's vow to the Nights Watch is only until his death I think. So even if he is resurrected by the lord of light I guess that he will be leaving the wall behind to fend for themselves.

 

[Iceternal]

I think I'm done with this show..

Spoiler

This was just two much, killing two of the best characters like that...

I mean, who's left now ? Tyrion, Dany and Arya ? I don't care about the others (well maybe Bran but he's been missing the whole season so whatever...)

When they first killed Ned, it was a game-changer for TV shows and fantasy in general, where you expect the good guy to be invincible up until the end at least.

But now it's become a parody of itself, me and my gf are always starting an episode saying "okay, which good guy/interesting character is going to die a pointless/horrible death today" and it almost never fails. It's become a frustrating experience now.

The show has devolved into cheap shock value. Killing a character can be a good plot device, but I feel it's gone beyond that now ... it's just a waste of buildup and character development.

Fuck you GRRM...

 

[iNvid02]

Who's he going to kill to avenge her death? The red witch? The Boltons? Which kinda brings up that story arc anyway. There was next to no point in any of that arc unless the red witch does something pretty major from here. Maybe that something is to do with John Snow. Maybe she was trying to destroy Stannis the whole time?

I dont think she was setting up Stannis up for failure, the expression on her face as she rode into Castle Black said as much, she was visibly shaken that she got it wrong. As for who Davos needs to avenge for Shireen, its Melisandre in my eyes, she held the torch that lit the fire.

 

[kiguel182]

Watch Tyrion die because of drunkeness or something stupid later on, just cuz.



They have to be building up Arya's arc to be something greater, I hope the payoff is good. But this is GoT... what payoff? Haha.

Every time there's a scene with her I'm like "There has to be a pay off for sure" but I just can't think of one. One that justifies all of this time spent with her.

She is a cool character sure but will she have a role that no one could've had that makes it worth all of this? Dunno.

 

[Funky Papa]

I was only referring to the whole "the show has caught up to the books, except in some parts". Seems like the only way they'll even get a new season would be if GRRM rushed out another book, or they just make stuff up as they go along. Both equally bad.

Don't worry, I wasn't talking about you

The current book/show situation is public knowledge, so I doubt mods will care about that.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

Curious how both Lannister children's cause of death was poisoning. Also remember Cersei was about to poison Tommen back in season 2.

 

[Fenderputty]

I was only referring to the whole "the show has caught up to the books, except in some parts". Seems like the only way they'll even get a new season would be if GRRM rushed out another book, or they just make stuff up as they go along. Both equally bad.

I thought the series was sold off to HBO with an ending in mind. GRRM knowing how he wants to end book 6 and 7 minus some of the details.

 

[Future]

This show is truly about villains being the heroes. In this world, to be a hero you have to be a villain at one point and get brought down. Some villains just die at that point, others rise up and be better and weird mix of good and evil. I think one of the only reasons tyrion is alive is because he became a villain for a sec when he killed his father....since a true hero probably would never have done that.

And all true heroes end up dead.

 

[Sword Familiar]

The showrunners know what happens regardless of when GRRM publishes the books.

Uhu, but do we want them to make all the dialogue in his stead?

Edit: I hope I'm wrong and there's nothing to worry about, obviously.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

And with that episode I think I'm officially done with this show. It has fantastic world-building, but even the moments they want to be cathartic don't feel like catharsis to me. Maybe I'll revisit it down the road but at this point the only character left standing that I enjoy seeing progress in story is Tyrion, and his one hour of progress out of 10 isn't enough to keep me watching.

Hey D&D and GRRM, how about this for a shocking twist in storytelling: maybe the characters you telegraph to be caricatured bad guys could defy expectations for a change.

Once again, Jon getting killed isn't really a twist if you've been paying attention to The Wall at all.

Sam almost got shanked, Jon has been given many warnings about the current state of moral with his leadership and how they feel with Wildlings being brought over the wall, or even the idea of siding with them.

A twist would be Sam killing Jon. What we witnessed was us doing what Jon did, thinking too far about the big picture of more important things and forgetting that you still need to remember the finer details. Just look at the thread, everyone was talking about Jon's plot armor because of his possible parents and how that might line up with Danny, or how he just killed a White Walker with Valyerian Steel and that's important.

Once Sam got the info that Valyerian Steel is the same shit as DragonGlass and the Wildlings made it over that wall, Jon just gave away his story lines to new people that it will live on with, they no longer die with him.

 

[Blader]

But now it's become a parody of itself, me and my gf are always starting an episode saying "okay, which good guy/interesting character is going to die a pointless/horrible death today" and it almost never fails. It's become a frustrating experience now.

Plenty of bad people have gotten fucked up or killed too.

 

[Deku Tree]

I thought the series was sold off to HBO with an ending in mind. GRRM knowing how he wants to end book 6 and 7 minus some of the details.

Yup HBO knows how GRRM wants to end the books.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Lena Headey is so amazing. Cersei's walk was perfect. I don't even care that Jon died, I'm too excited for Cersei's revenge in season 6, lmao.

That scheming look on her face when frankenmountain picked her up. You know she's thinking about the worst possible way to end that bitch with the ladle.

 

[Gnilres]

Jon is dead. But he'll be back. He will be

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Lena Headey is so amazing. Cersei's walk was perfect. I don't even care that Jon died, I'm too excited for Cersei's revenge in season 6, lmao.

That scheming look on her face when frankenmountain picked her up. You know she's thinking about the worst possible way to end that bitch with the ladle.

Yup, Kings Landing is all fucked up and I can't wait for Mountain to fuck it up even more

 

[SirMossyBloke]

Well I could see Jons death a mile away. Not because of the show but strictly due to how many times I've seen him on talk shows the past week. They really need to stop doing that.

 

[diggmcbadass]

Just watched the show. I'll go with the pessimistic prediction for next season:

• Stannis is still dead.
• Arya is dead from some voodoo magic. Her face is still around.
• Sansa broke Theon's fall, so he's fine. She's dead though.
• Jamie tries to resuscitate Mycella with mouth to mouth, gets poisoned. Dies.
• Danerys gets speared by the Dothraki as revenge for killing Drogo.
• Her dragon dies from infections. The two other starve to death being left in that dungon
• Sam gets hunted down by the Night's Watch shortly after leaving.
• Zombie Mountain, after carrying Cercei to her bath, makes the classic Of Mice & Men-style misjudgement of his own petting strength, leaving her dead.
• Jon Snow is dead, but the Melisandra is there in time to save him. Slips on his blood, cracks her head open, dies.

Spoiler

I'll still be watching next year. I like a good reboot of everything.

 

[Raistlin]

This gives me the tiniest sliver of hope, but Melissandre looked like she completely fucked up and is questioning her faith. My boy Jon. (._. ) My boy...

I've been thinking about this.

IIRC, the only thing Mellissandre said to Stannis regarding her latest vision was that she saw Bolton's flag burning, etc. If that was truly the extent of her vision, things may not be as they seem.

The aftermath of the battle showed tons of bodies. While obviously the assumption is the majority were Stannis' troops, we really don't know how bad the Bolton forces got fucked up. It's quite possible they are very depleted, and now are ripe to be taken out by some other attack.


Could the answer be as simple as Mellissandre completely misinterpreting the vision to mean that specific battle would go Stannis' way? That's the thing with visions, you don't always get the context. It's quite possible the vision was true in that Bolton will ultimately lose, but it simply wasn't from that battle. Moreover, that battle may have in fact been necessary to set it up?

The other interesting point is that they never showed Stannis being killed by Brienne. Given the above I have been wondering if Brienne will somehow take out Roose and Ramsey now that they are depleted. But now that I think about it, Brienne may actually have spared Stannis in order to help take out Roose and Ramsey for all we know?


So while Mellissandre's faith could in fact be shaken as things stand, it's quite possible that will change with the realization the vision was still true. She was simply the one that failed to understand it.

 

[Future]

Once again, Jon getting killed isn't really a twist if you've been paying attention to The Wall at all.

Sam almost got shanked, Jon has been given many warnings about the current state of moral with his leadership and how they feel with Wildlings being brought over the wall, or even the idea of siding with them.

A twist would be Sam killing Jon. What we witnessed was us doing what Jon did, thinking too far about the big picture of more important things and forgetting that you still need to remember the finer details. Just look at the thread, everyone was talking about Jon's plot armor because of his possible parents and how that might line up with Danny, or how he just killed a White Walker with Valyerian Steel and that's important.

Once Sam got the info that Valyerian Steel is the same shit as DragonGlass and the Wildlings made it over that wall, Jon just gave away his story lines to new people that it will live on with, they no longer die with him.

Yup. It really is the plot armor assumptions everyone makes due to other media. The passage of information you mention is important: only a top tier warrior like Jon snow could have landed that hit and made that connection. He transferred that info and has done his deed. He died a hero, even if he wasn't the last one standing. And he died in a way that was consistent with previous storylines. His pompous be heroic at every turn no matter the effect on the people around him got him killed. And not Ina real fight, because Jon snow wins all his fights

But this is why Hollywood is the way it is. With the typical forced romance and invincible heroes with happy endings. Otherwise people bitch continuously and even fault the writing... When in fact the writing had been on point since pretty much forever. Everything makes sense when you think about it and get out the heat of the moment

 

[Sword Familiar]

[*]Jamie tries to resuscitate Mycella with mouth to mouth, gets poisoned. Dies.

XD LOL. I want to see this happen now.

 

[oti]

Just watched the show. I'll go with the pessimistic prediction for next season:

• Stannis is still dead.
• Arya is dead from some voodoo magic. Her face is still around.
• Sansa broke Theon's fall, so he's fine. She's dead though.
• Jamie tries to resuscitate Mycella with mouth to mouth, gets poisoned. Dies.
• Danerys gets speared by the Dothraki as revenge for killing Drogo.
• Her dragon dies from infections. The two other starve to death being left in that dungon
• Sam gets hunted down by the Night's Watch shortly after leaving.
• Zombie Mountain, after carrying Cercei to her bath, makes the classic Of Mice & Men-style misjudgement of his own petting strength, leaving her dead.
• Jon Snow is dead, but the Melisandra is there in time to save him. Slips on his blood, cracks her head open, dies.

Spoiler

I'll still be watching next year. I like a good reboot of everything.

So who are the main protagonists then? Jon's wolf and Hodor?

 

[MikeyB]

Hardhome is the show's best battle scene.

In terms of action, sure. In terms of the plot, not a chance. The scene of Rob riding a horse to his waiting mother did more for those characters and the plot than Hardhome. The Battle at Blackwater revealed several characters strengths and weaknesses and was the first step in Tyrion's downfall.

In Hardhome we learned that Valerian steel kills whitewalkers. That's text in an item description rather than a plot point. The wildlings are in roughly the same position, vulnerable in numbers rather than location, the Watch is still on guard for Whitewalkers, and the Whitewalkers continue to randomly march to places and then hang out for a bit.

Also, why in hell would they retreat to a peninsula when the Whitewalkers travel by land and their current enemy (Stannis) by sea? They effectively cornered themselves.

 

[BigJonsson]

Just realized Littlefinger wasn't in the finale

 

[Zaptruder]

Well that was an intense episode.

Much anger and sadness, even if you expected some of it.

That's Game of Thrones for you - people make grand sweeping plans - and then they get cut down by the plans of others.

Few heroes left to root for... and if I'm to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the show ended with all the 'main' characters dead or incapacitated, with secondary characters having to pick up the pieces and establish a new world order post undead invasion.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Just realized Littlefinger wasn't in the finale

He probably died off screen. How humiliating.

 

[Fenderputty]

So who are the main protagonists then? Jon's wolf and Hodor?

John's wolf to die of depression confirmed.

 

[Future]

Just realized Littlefinger wasn't in the finale

But he was hyped by tyrion and the whole network of spies thing

 

[Sword Familiar]

But he was hyped by tyrion and the whole network of spies thing

Wasn't he just talking about Varys?

Like "if only we had someone who could do this".

"Yeah, we'll be alright."

 

[PhoenixDark]

Maybe Littlefinger will lead the Vale to Winterfell, the Boltons open the gates and then the Vale knights start slaughtering everyone. Or maybe he'll just go with the flow.

 

[boxter432]

Wasn't he just talking about Varys?

yes.


LF probably was still waiting to see what happened at Winterfell.

speaking of...was the Bolton's army mostly Stannis-deserters? since Stannis had no horses and the attacking army from Winterfell was like all on horses after Roose talked about how much cavalry Stannis had.

 

[Ovid]

I have a theory guys. Hear me out:

What if Jon is really Robert's son and Gendry was used to throw us off. If he wasn't used to through us off that would mean he is related to Jon.

Melisadre has been wrong with Stannis twice now -- Blackwater and Winterfell.

What if Jon was the man with true kings blood all along. That would mean Melisandre is a good guy(gal) too.

Thoughts?

 

[Volimar]

I have a theory guys. Hear me out:

What if Jon is really Robert's son and Gendry was used to throw us off. If he wasn't used to through us off that would mean he is related to Jon.

Melisadre has been wrong with Stannis twice now -- Blackwater and Winterfell.

What if Jon was the man with true kings blood all along. That would mean Melisandre is a good guy(gal) too.

Thoughts?

It would take quite a bit of mental gymnastics for me to think that the woman that called for the burning alive of a young girl is a good gal.

 

[scabro]

I have a theory guys. Hear me out:

What if Jon is really Robert's son and Gendry was used to throw us off. If he wasn't used to through us off that would mean he is related to Jon.

Melisadre has been wrong with Stannis twice now -- Blackwater and Winterfell.

What if Jon was the man with true kings blood all along. That would mean Melisandre is a good guy(gal) too.

Thoughts?

this was sort of the theory that i had as to how jon would did that i didnt post because i knew that jon did die.


i thought something would happen to stannis to his army, then Melisandre would sacrifice Jon as he has kings blood, saving the day for Stannis.


Now i wouldn't be surprised if Stannis being ambushed and his men leaving wasn't somehow part of her plan, and that she will bring back Jon.

edit: holy shit maybe burning shereen was so she would have the power to bring back Jon and not to help Stannis take winterfell.

 

[Future]

Wasn't he just talking about Varys?

Like "if only we had someone who could do this".

"Yeah, we'll be alright."

Oh shit I guess your right. For some reason I didn't even think of varys in this way and assumed it was little finger

Now i wouldn't be surprised if Stannis being ambushed and his men leaving wasn't somehow part of her plan, and that she will bring back Jon.

She looked legit shook though

 

[Ovid]

It would take quite a bit of mental gymnastics for me to think that the woman that called for the burning alive of a young girl is a good gal.

If she revived Jon would you be #TeamMelisandre?

 

[Sword Familiar]

Melisandre's faith is obviously shaken. She actually believed everything she said. She'll probably be one of the first to die (by suicide) next season.

 

[Brojito]

I have a theory guys. Hear me out:

What if Jon is really Robert's son and Gendry was used to throw us off. If he wasn't used to through us off that would mean he is related to Jon.

Melisadre has been wrong with Stannis twice now -- Blackwater and Winterfell.

What if Jon was the man with true kings blood all along. That would mean Melisandre is a good guy(gal) too.

Thoughts?

There's a much more widely accepted/subscribed to theory about Jon's parentage that makes more sense than this does, honestly.

 

[purg3]

She looked legit shook though

Yeah, she had that "this wasn't supposed to happen" look.

 

[Team Filler]

Once again, Jon getting killed isn't really a twist if you've been paying attention to The Wall at all.

Sam almost got shanked, Jon has been given many warnings about the current state of moral with his leadership and how they feel with Wildlings being brought over the wall, or even the idea of siding with them.

A twist would be Sam killing Jon. What we witnessed was us doing what Jon did, thinking too far about the big picture of more important things and forgetting that you still need to remember the finer details. Just look at the thread, everyone was talking about Jon's plot armor because of his possible parents and how that might line up with Danny, or how he just killed a White Walker with Valyerian Steel and that's important.

Once Sam got the info that Valyerian Steel is the same shit as DragonGlass and the Wildlings made it over that wall, Jon just gave away his story lines to new people that it will live on with, they no longer die with him.

Here's my specific problem with Jon getting killed: I expected it for several episodes now, thanks to all the obvious telegraphing and this series history in killing off the likable characters. As for the show as a whole, my problem is that he was one of the last few characters whose arc I enjoyed watching unfold. Most of the rest that I've enjoyed have been killed off, and people can go "lolthisisgameofthrones" and whatnot, but this season has been particularly pushing home the fact for me that I have become largely disinterested in the kind of story they are telling as a whole, and that really sucks because I've loved so much of this series.

It's fine for other people to continue liking it, but I'm just no longer feeling it.

 

[Qurupeke]

With Stannis dead, Melisandre on the Wall and after all those Jon-Melisandre scenes, are there really people that think Jon is dead for good?

He's the main opponent of the Whitwalkers, the greatest evil in the series probably. The only other person that will probably oppose them is Dany, but for now she'll probably be Khaleesi v2.

 

[The Cowboy]

Yeah, she had that "this wasn't supposed to happen" look.

I don't get how Stannis/Melisadre couldn't have seen it coming, no matter how much they believe in the lord of light they should have seen this coming a mile away- they burned a child alive in front of the entire army, did they just think no one would care/notice.

They should have done it behind closed doors or something, not in front of everyone for all to see.