The finishers and the flying ammo drops both feel rather out of place to me.
DOOM Gameplay Demo (E3 2015)
- Thread starter zakislam
- Start date
The finishers and the flying ammo drops both feel rather out of place to me.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Re: Shotguns and their power.
Every single teenager that picked up a double barreled shotgun in Doom 2 and saw it unleash its power for the first time against a crowd of zombie soldiers still remember that precious moment. It was branded into our brains and with good reason.
The supershotgun was THE SIGNATURE weapon of Doom 2. An item that became so important for id software that it was passed to the Quake franchise pretty much straight away. Almost every shooter worth its salt has tried to emulate its kick and damage, some better than others.
A Doom game with a double barreled shotgun that doesn't blow zombie soldiers into pieces of chunk from short distances is not deserving of being called Doom. The pistol is not important and one could argue that even the chaingun could be exchanged for something else if it made sense, but the chainsaw, the supershotty and the BFG are Doom's holy trinity. Change everything else if you please, but don't fuck with those.
Finisher flases looks stupid, out of place and I hope they can get turned off/modded out, but I kind of like the drop. Better than just having medkits thrown around because of reasons.
Every single teenager that picked up a double barreled shotgun in Doom 2 and saw it unleash its power for the first time against a crowd of zombie soldiers still remember that precious moment. It was branded into our brains and with good reason.
The supershotgun was THE SIGNATURE weapon of Doom 2. An item that became so important for id software that it was passed to the Quake franchise pretty much straight away. Almost every shooter worth its salt has tried to emulate its kick and damage, some better than others.
A Doom game with a double barreled shotgun that doesn't blow zombie soldiers into pieces of chunk from short distances is not deserving of being called Doom. The pistol is not important and one could argue that even the chaingun could be exchanged for something else if it made sense, but the chainsaw, the supershotty and the BFG are Doom's holy trinity. Change everything else if you please, but don't fuck with those.
Finisher flases looks stupid, out of place and I hope they can get turned off/modded out, but I kind of like the drop. Better than just having medkits thrown around because of reasons.
PensivePen
Member
The character's max run speed shown so far looks slow.
The only color I see on the enemies is grey.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Holy shit this looks amazing.
I thought doom 1+2 were boring, I loved 3 and RoE.
Day one for me anyway
I thought doom 1+2 were boring, I loved 3 and RoE.
Day one for me anyway
Mother fucking iD tech.
dark_inferno
Member
But modern gamers need to know when you can have such flashy kill animations.
Im not happy with the new Doom. Looks boring. I would have a more faster Game with more enemies and flashier action. This just looks like bland 08/15 Ego shooter with 08/15 violence.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Uh what? No that's not how a forum works.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Many games are heavily defined by your arsenal of tools and moves. Metroid wouldn't be the same without a morph ball or a missile launcher. Mario wouldn't be the same without wall jumping or ground pounding.
These have become staples of their respective series, and players have grown to rely on them to behave in a certain way, and approach the game with this in mind.
Now I'm not saying you couldn't make a Metroid without a morph ball or a Mario without a ground pound, because you could, and they might even be great. But I think having a move that looks like a ground pound but in fact behaves differently, or something that looks like a morph ball but isn't, is just misleading. Why introduce a new tool and not make it clear that this is a new tool?
These have become staples of their respective series, and players have grown to rely on them to behave in a certain way, and approach the game with this in mind.
Now I'm not saying you couldn't make a Metroid without a morph ball or a Mario without a ground pound, because you could, and they might even be great. But I think having a move that looks like a ground pound but in fact behaves differently, or something that looks like a morph ball but isn't, is just misleading. Why introduce a new tool and not make it clear that this is a new tool?
flaxknuckles
Member
I don't know about previous Dooms but just from the name I'd expect a "supershotty" to do a crap ton of damage so yeah I was underwhelmed by it in the video. And they really need to build a real melee system into the game because the finishers and the chainsaw have already bored me before I played it. They could at least make them moving finishers.
Dictator93
Member
I agree that the SSG and SG should be stopping power weapons that blast zombies to bits without a second thought, but one thing I noticed in the video is, due to a controller, the guy never has his sights directly on anything. He basically misses with every shot.
And there's a good reason why.
Doom was amazing when it released, and while it's still fun now it's antiquated. Many of you will disagree here, that's fine, I know people still play this game often and find it more appealing than modern shooters, but you're in the niche there.
MiguelItUp
Member
Half the time the player looked like they were sensitive on the move stick, which lead me to believe it was console footage. Or it was at least being played on PC with a controller. At times it looked pretty fast, but it was hard to justify considering the player's movement was all over the place.
Exactly what I was thinking, a staggering maybe on the knees enemy is enough to know it could be finished but not like this lol. Flashing red, smh.
SamusPrime
Banned
I thought the PSX and N64 versions' sound design was a mile step in the right direction for Doom and it's sad to see that this path of atmosphere was never explored further. If anyone hasn't played those, do yourself the favor. It amped the dreadful atmosphere to 11.
The Doom 3 mod 'In Hell' was absolutely fantastic in that respect and I wish someone would force the guys making this new one to play it.
The Doom 3 mod 'In Hell' was absolutely fantastic in that respect and I wish someone would force the guys making this new one to play it.
MiguelItUp
Member
If the flashing stays til the end, I can see it being toggled in the options menu. If not, thank you based mods.
Dictator93
Member
I highly doubt this game is using megatextures in the same way idtech5 did (if at all).
People are still not used to PBS styled textures I guess. You aren't supposed to paint tons of diffuse information into them, rather the normal map or (preferably) geometry should handle that detail on top of the shading.
Tons of diffuse detail in a texture is physically extremely inaccurate and works, usually, only a set few lighting conditions without looking "off".+
Maybe the enemy should start coughing out serious amounts of blood or viscera from their mouths to show they can be executed. Or, maybe they drop a turd signifying their death wish.
Yeah, I'd rather defend myself through mobility than be a slow bullet sponge that regens health in a few seconds. Guess that makes me antiquated. At least the new Doom is bringing back medpacs.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
It's weird because the presenter talked about the feelings of empowerment we all experienced with the original DOOM, and there are few things that take away that feeling more than being interrupted by the game telling you what you need to do.
The old Dooms still have competitive sales on Steam, that already proves you wrong.Just the fact that there are no comparable games out there, and a dedicated fanbase that will provide sales regardless means the risk of putting out a game with this 'antiquated' (really now?) gameplay would be low.
The drive for new gameplay and discarding previous gameplay as antiquated is just... misguided at best. They're just rules of a game, they don't change up soccer every year because it gets 'antiquated'. There's nothing about it to be outdated or antiquated, if it works it works, doesn't matter how old the gameplay is.
Yea? You asked them all yourself? They all loved it?
We don't know how this will pan out yet, these gameplay trailers aren't actual gameplay but scripted (or set up) to show the mechanics.
Mobility and damage can be tweaked.
Not concerned about this or enemy amounts yet until we see some actual gameplay.
Doom is a very well known game, sales doesn't mean people are enjoying it. It's cheap, people buy games and let them sit there. So no, it doesn't prove anything.
That's the reason games like PoE, D:OS or BA needed a kickstarter to show the real situation about a genre.
Hint: wrong facts.
After going through every page in this thread and reading all the cringeworthy comments. I lol'd enough up to this point. Reading through this thread really shows me who actually played doom and who thinks they know Doom.
So first my onion, I think it has definite potential. I didn't have super high hopes that it'd be a 1:1 of Doom 1 and 2. I think it's got the potential to be up and as good and fun as Wolf: TNO. Cause that's where I'm putting it, not comparing it to the olden ones but more of with the modern.
I figured they would take a lot of inspiration from Sgt Mark's Brutal mod. See his reaction
They did, a good amount too and well executions and such other things. So I figured this would actually make this balanced for THIS game unlike how Brutal makes regular doom unbalanced.
I hope the levels would be good. It's strange I didn't understand the reactions til I saw the dark corridor filled gameplay video, I saw the hell video first so I just thought that first. I'm trying to be the most positive for this. Course this is a work in progress.
The overwhelming amount of negativity is pretty funny to see though.
Looks like this game is shaping up to be some Brutal Doom Johnny instead of Holy Hell -like gameplay folks were expecting. Lighten up people
also pro-Tip: Final Doom: Plutonia is better in every way than Doom 2. DEBATE ME.
This is positively correct.
YA SEE KIDS THESE DAYS PLAY THE BRUTAL DOOM THAT CAUSES THE BRAIN DAMAGE. WITH THEIR RIPPIN AND THEIR TEARING AND THE BIPPIN AND THE BERRIN' THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE VANILLA DOOM IS ALL ABOUT.
The only real way to get through slaughtermaps is using infighting to your advantage. Source: Me cause I play a lot of slaughtermaps.
Oh god here's another one. Yes it modifies a lot of gameplay to the point it does actually break balance. Look at the video I posted above of Brutal Doom Johnny which isn't too far from the original BD. The balance is extremely off to the point that the entire game is broken, enemy behavior and weapons kind of break the game. So no Brutal Doom is not the definitive way of DOOM experience through any of the official IWADS such as Ult Doom, Doom II, Final Doom.
So first my onion, I think it has definite potential. I didn't have super high hopes that it'd be a 1:1 of Doom 1 and 2. I think it's got the potential to be up and as good and fun as Wolf: TNO. Cause that's where I'm putting it, not comparing it to the olden ones but more of with the modern.
I figured they would take a lot of inspiration from Sgt Mark's Brutal mod. See his reaction
to that.
They did, a good amount too and well executions and such other things. So I figured this would actually make this balanced for THIS game unlike how Brutal makes regular doom unbalanced.
I hope the levels would be good. It's strange I didn't understand the reactions til I saw the dark corridor filled gameplay video, I saw the hell video first so I just thought that first. I'm trying to be the most positive for this. Course this is a work in progress.
The overwhelming amount of negativity is pretty funny to see though.
Looks like this game is shaping up to be some Brutal Doom Johnny instead of Holy Hell -like gameplay folks were expecting. Lighten up people
also pro-Tip: Final Doom: Plutonia is better in every way than Doom 2. DEBATE ME.
This is positively correct.
YA SEE KIDS THESE DAYS PLAY THE BRUTAL DOOM THAT CAUSES THE BRAIN DAMAGE. WITH THEIR RIPPIN AND THEIR TEARING AND THE BIPPIN AND THE BERRIN' THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE VANILLA DOOM IS ALL ABOUT.
The only real way to get through slaughtermaps is using infighting to your advantage. Source: Me cause I play a lot of slaughtermaps.
Oh god here's another one. Yes it modifies a lot of gameplay to the point it does actually break balance. Look at the video I posted above of Brutal Doom Johnny which isn't too far from the original BD. The balance is extremely off to the point that the entire game is broken, enemy behavior and weapons kind of break the game. So no Brutal Doom is not the definitive way of DOOM experience through any of the official IWADS such as Ult Doom, Doom II, Final Doom.
StoppedInTracks
Member
1500 posts too late but man that was SLOOOOW af.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm hoping that's the case, but several zombie soldiers seem to require two shots at close distance (that's four shotgun shells, which is WTF inducing stuff for the old farts in this thread) to get minced.
I mean, I knew better than expecting a souped up port of the original, but that was a pretty baffling moment for me. Well, that and the ugly as sin BFG. Because honestly, what the fuck is this shit?
Full disclosure: I liked every other weapon shown so far, including the Quake 2-like rocket launcher and the rocket pod attachment for the squad gun. I thought that was pretty awesome, actually.
Disagree all you want, but to me it's obvious the demand is there. There's absolutely no reason to assume that gameplay itself would somehow become outdated. The same mistake was made with platformers when we went from 2D -> 3D. 2D gameplay on 3D capable machinery was seen as outdated and ignored completely. Until we saw a resurgence a long time later, spurred by indies I think. And guess what? They sold.
I do too of course I do. I'm talking about get educated of the original games. I'm usually cynical as hell, but I don't raise my hopes super high either, this is the modern era and I don't expect 1:1 redoing.
This is close to what I could've hoped for really.
I'm really really excited.
Doom meant a lot of things to a lot of different people, and this includes a group of folks who've been playing the series hardcore since 1993, the people who've picked up on that community on the way and have their own particular ideas of what the series means, and people who played it in 1993 and moved on as FPS games changed, so... probably impossible to satisfy everyone.
This almost an improvement. For Doom 3 I remember some people nearly wanted id to reinvent the FPS or at least do something Half-Life level with the FPS genre, and when it wasn't that people were pretty upset (including myself) so people's expectations seem to be at least a little bit more reigned in this time around.
Doom meant a lot of things to a lot of different people, and this includes a group of folks who've been playing the series hardcore since 1993, the people who've picked up on that community on the way and have their own particular ideas of what the series means, and people who played it in 1993 and moved on as FPS games changed, so... probably impossible to satisfy everyone.
I think it has promise. I don't know if that promise will pay off or not, but I am way more excited for this than I was for Doom 3 if nothing else.
I do remember thinking that the weapons seemed under-powered for a game modeling itself around the two classic Doom games. Maybe everyone should just complain about that until release and they'll feel more meaty when it comes time for retail release, lol. On the other hand, maybe they just took a page from Brutal Doom and some of these enemies that aren't "dead" after the first shot just don't fall right away so that you have an opportunity to savage them further. Even if not, I'm sure I'll adapt.
I think the speed is fine. Clearly going to be pretty quick and crazy based on the hell segment. I'm willing to bet the game will feel much faster in the hands of someone looking to run and gun rather than someone trying to show off locations/enemies/weapon models too.
The mobility of the character surprised me in a pleasant way. The first time he double jumps, I was like, "...What?!" But then after I'd thought about it for a bit, I realized that if Doom is about anything, it's about making choices that are awesome even if they don't 100% make sense. Why does doomguy double jump now? Because it's fucking awesome, that's why. Also, doomguy can mantle now. The greatest. Can we just make it a rule that all first person games require mantling from now on, please? Nothing I hate more than falling to my death in a situation where an actual human being would just reach out and catch themselves.
The fact that there are armor and health pickups in this game makes me inordinately happy for some reason. I was really worried it would be Halo style health recharge because everybody does that shit now.
I do think that the Imps are not distinct enough in appearance. They don't necessarily have to be brown and spikey, but some kind of visual signifier to make them easier to spot compared to the footsoldiers would be nice. I wonder if they still croak...
I don't really like the flashing color for the takedowns. It's effective in conveying what it's meant to, but it's also strangely distracting. In Brutal Doom, if you put an enemy into a state where you can finish them off, you blow off a limb or two and they clutch their stump, screaming in pain. Something like that would be a better signifier than a colored light flashing across the enemy model, I'd think.
All in all, I'm still really looking forward to this.
I do remember thinking that the weapons seemed under-powered for a game modeling itself around the two classic Doom games. Maybe everyone should just complain about that until release and they'll feel more meaty when it comes time for retail release, lol. On the other hand, maybe they just took a page from Brutal Doom and some of these enemies that aren't "dead" after the first shot just don't fall right away so that you have an opportunity to savage them further. Even if not, I'm sure I'll adapt.
I think the speed is fine. Clearly going to be pretty quick and crazy based on the hell segment. I'm willing to bet the game will feel much faster in the hands of someone looking to run and gun rather than someone trying to show off locations/enemies/weapon models too.
The mobility of the character surprised me in a pleasant way. The first time he double jumps, I was like, "...What?!" But then after I'd thought about it for a bit, I realized that if Doom is about anything, it's about making choices that are awesome even if they don't 100% make sense. Why does doomguy double jump now? Because it's fucking awesome, that's why. Also, doomguy can mantle now. The greatest. Can we just make it a rule that all first person games require mantling from now on, please? Nothing I hate more than falling to my death in a situation where an actual human being would just reach out and catch themselves.
The fact that there are armor and health pickups in this game makes me inordinately happy for some reason. I was really worried it would be Halo style health recharge because everybody does that shit now.
I do think that the Imps are not distinct enough in appearance. They don't necessarily have to be brown and spikey, but some kind of visual signifier to make them easier to spot compared to the footsoldiers would be nice. I wonder if they still croak...
I don't really like the flashing color for the takedowns. It's effective in conveying what it's meant to, but it's also strangely distracting. In Brutal Doom, if you put an enemy into a state where you can finish them off, you blow off a limb or two and they clutch their stump, screaming in pain. Something like that would be a better signifier than a colored light flashing across the enemy model, I'd think.
All in all, I'm still really looking forward to this.
So was there some definite info if the "single-player" campaign will be playable in co-op or if co-op will be some tacked on thing using "other maps" or horde mode?
Really don't like it when games do half a step towards co-op and then don't do it fully.
EDIT: DOOM 1 was the first networked coop game I ever played on T-based 386s in 1993 and it is a bit of a shame that they stepped away from that in DOOM3.(there was an unofficial mod later though)
Hope DOOM will finally let us coop again!
Really don't like it when games do half a step towards co-op and then don't do it fully.
EDIT: DOOM 1 was the first networked coop game I ever played on T-based 386s in 1993 and it is a bit of a shame that they stepped away from that in DOOM3.(there was an unofficial mod later though)
Hope DOOM will finally let us coop again!
I didn't say it wouldn't sell, just that your example wasn't evidence of people enjoying the old school gameplay.
And you're right, actually, those replying to my other post: my antiquated comment is BS in relation to the gunaply and movement. The faster paced gameplay of Doom is just more suited to PC, and we rarely see it these days because many games are made with consoles in mind. That doesn't make it outdated, just rare to see.
And simplicity isn't antiquated either. This new game looks like it will share the simplicity of the original, as long as the gunplay and level design is satisfying this won't be an issue.
If they up the movement speed, damage, eventually start chucking tonnes of enemies at us, and have quality level design, which is all possible, then this could get incredibly close to the original games.
Maybe add an option on PC at least to up speed/damage, a "Classic Doom" mode, if the speed and damage increase would be too much for console.
If they nail the gunplay and level design though I'm not worried, it might not be Doom as we knew it but it looks fun.
So if they sped up the movement and made the shotguns more powerful at least, how many of you would be appeased?
I do generally agree with those concerns, but I'm ok with this. Largely because I think the player isn't showing off super speed because it has to show 'everything' in detail and is wandering around slowly, and his shotgun aiming doesn't seem all there either.
I do generally agree with those concerns, but I'm ok with this. Largely because I think the player isn't showing off super speed because it has to show 'everything' in detail and is wandering around slowly, and his shotgun aiming doesn't seem all there either.
Sir Alemeth
Member
Wtf I thought they were gonna bring the speed back. Too fucking slow for a doom game. Also, they need to color coat the different enemy types to help easier to make out what's what.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Agreed on needing to give enemies a more distinctive look. More often than not I couldn't tell imps from soldiers, specially if they are not close.
With that said, I don't mind that id did a complete redesign. The original imp is iconic, but it's really hard to see the true face behind those brown pixeles. Are they covered in fur or slick? Are they human-based are just purely humanoid?
Also, I'd appreciate if somebody could could find a pinkie. As far as I can tell there's an invisible one near the end of the gameplay footage, but I don't think I noticed an uncloaked one.
Don't let the few first minutes fool you. It's a damn fast game. Look at the imp's fireballs and the action near the end of the footage.
I was really worried at first that those big bruiser enemies he fights in the hell segment were pinky's replacement since they're also melee enemies that constantly try to get in the player's face. Good to see that if nothing else, the invisible pinky seems to retain a shape closer to the original (even if we only saw it's corpse from behind.)
Punching guys are not as cool as an enemy that's constantly trying to eat you.
PensivePen
Member
It would assuage my major gameplay concern right now. The main other thing is I just need to see more of the maps as I'd like to see lots of branching paths, secrets, etc. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt on that right now since they've shown so little of the game.
My only other major issue is the art direction, which I don't think is going to change a lot between now and release.
Sir Alemeth
Member
Oh snap that looks better. Lol I turned it off in disappointment cuz it was so slow at the beginning.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Ok shit I've just watched that SP demo and that looks a lot better than the other one.
Graphically looks amazing and gunplay looks great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXhpg9Qx6l0
Graphically looks amazing and gunplay looks great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXhpg9Qx6l0
Ulysses 31
Member
There may be (mega) armor/megasphere items in the game though.
I think that these are reasonable observations. Things like movement speed and weapon damage are tweakable before release. I like the enemy designs, the level design seemed to be heading in the right direction and the atmosphere was more Doom than any other game I've seen, which is encouraging.
While it's not 'OMG this is it', I think it's too early to jump to any conclusions. There's good and bad in there, and I'm prepared to wait and see. And Doom's always had amazing mods anyway, so the focus on that means anything is possible really.