DOOM Gameplay Demo (E3 2015)

Renekton said:
There are many interpretations of what elements make a Doom game... I don't think cartoony color is it.
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You can only do so much with Photoshop. The thing is, Doom always had a high contrast look, while the new game is largely monochromatic. That shouldn't be the case.

I'm sure modders will go to town. I personally cannot wait for the remake of the some of the most classic WADs.

As for the alternative fire modes, I'm somewhat conflicted. Doom could use some changes there (Blood is a brilliant example of a similar kind of FPS that used alt fire modes to great effect), but too many of them could detract from the game's simplicity.
 
I haven't been following the conversation here too closely, but I saw the gameplay demo a couple times and it feels more like brutal doom than doom, if that makes sense. It looks like it'll be a pretty good game, but a bad doom game. The ultra-violence has never been the essence and core of doom, and that's all that was on display.
 
Ach, why not. I'm not the biggest Doom player to be honest, hopped off that particular bandwagon when Teletubby Doom lost its appeal, but I do have my fair share of nostalgia about the earlier games. All of this IMHO, of course:

While I do think that the overall speed needs to be tuned up a bit, the video posted in this thread overdoes it a bit. Something in between those speeds would feel nice.

The lengthy melee attack animations are a huge turn-off. No, I do not want to stand there for several seconds watching a single demon get sawed in half every fucking time. I wanna run around like a madman on drugs and saw ALL the demons in half in that timespan.

All the demons, as in, a few more per encounter please. Having all of them warp in is a bit crummy, too. Let many of them roam around the level, or at least around their spawn area, so that opening a door or turning a corner becomes risky adrenaline-laden business. (To be quite honest, the warp-in animation was kinda underwhelming as well. More pizzazz to that, please.)

The weapon wheel with slowdown rubbed me the wrong way. Just let me cycle through the weapons quickly using the dpad/keyboard, without breaking the flow of the game. I will not stand for a stupid-ass time dilation weapon wheel in Doom. This is not negotiable.

The pissfilter and colour stuff. 'Nuff said about it in this thread already. Cripes. Enemies can be colorful AND menacing at the same time, ya know.

The SFX need some work too. A bit more splortch and crunk, growr and squee in between the buddabuddabudda please. Make it more visceral. It's only enough if I need to barf a couple of times. May just be the demo being improperly recorded, though. Audio is easy to mangle.


Last is something I can't quite put my finger on. Hell seemed kinda... tame. And the Demons didn't feel like Demons, but more like something created to look like ones. Hard to put into words why I arrived at that conclusion. Maybe there needs to be more blood and guts on the demons themselves.... or pus, flies, tentacles, wounds, etc. Minor quibble though, the other issues are more pressing.
 
CTLance said:
I do not want to stand there for several seconds watching a single demon get sawed in half every fucking time. I wanna run around like a madman on drugs and saw ALL the demons in half in that timespan.
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It's not like you could do that in the classic games though. Maybe the undead marines, but the imps and pinkies took a few seconds of watching them go "ah ah ah ah ah ah ah....dead".

Then there's the bigger enemies, which took much, much longer. I'm curious to see how that's handled in the new game.

CTLance said:
All the demons, as in, a few more per encounter please. Having all of them warp in is a bit crummy, too. Let many of them roam around the level, or at least around their spawn area, so that opening a door or turning a corner becomes risky adrenaline-laden business.
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I agree with this. If warping in enemies occurs often in this game, then that takes away some of the strategy. Granted, the classic games did that occasionally as well.
 
I thought the hell area in Doom 3 was the worst part of the game but the footage here looked fun. There was a big upgrade in enemy behavior and level design despite it still having that classic Doom feeling to the shooting.
 
Ixion said:
It's not like you could do that in the classic games though. Maybe the undead marines, but the imps and pinkies took a few seconds of watching them go "ah ah ah ah ah ah ah....dead".
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While it is true that the chainsaw was a pretty inefficient weapon against most enemies from a damage standpoint, you could also disengage at any moment, and many enemies you sawed at were stunlocked for most of the time (depending on pain threshold). Which opened up a lot of tactical possibilities and made it a great last resort weapon when you really really needed that clutch save against all odds. Also a great Ammo saver.
Below Nightmare difficulty, that is.

This new Doom has you simply sit there and watch an animation after the health of the enemy has been depleted, basically only wasting your time.
StaffyManasse said:
I think I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
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sPW46nAt.png
 
CTLance said:
While it is true that the chainsaw was a pretty inefficient weapon against most enemies from a damage standpoint, you could also disengage at any moment, and many enemies you sawed at were stunlocked for most of the time (depending on pain threshold). Which opened up a lot of tactical possibilities and made it a great last resort weapon when you really really needed that clutch save against all odds. Also a great Ammo saver.
Below Nightmare difficulty, that is.

This new Doom has you simply sit there and watch an animation after the health of the enemy has been depleted, basically only wasting your time.
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Thing is, id Software would have to either make the chainsaw work like the classic games, where you don't actually cut anything and the enemy is just stunned, or they could have you actually cut through the enemy, but if you stop halfway the enemy is partially damaged and lives on...while having part of their torso hanging off.

The latter would be awesome, but very difficult to pull off. So I guess they're in that middle ground right now where the kills look really cool, but take away some control.
 
I think the new chainsaw is a huge misunderstanding of how you used the old one, which would only get you proper rekt if used against a bunch of imps. All things considered, it was a pretty worthless weapon barring the badass factor. As far as I can remember, the chainsaw was only effective against isolated foot soldiers *and* those fucking flying skulls that would fuck up your shit if left unattended, which were stopped right away by it.
 
Funky Papa said:
I think the new chainsaw is a huge misunderstanding of how you used the old one, which would only get you proper rekt if used against a bunch of imps. All things considered, it was a pretty worthless weapon barring the badass factor. As far as I can remember, the chainsaw was only effective against isolated foot soldiers *and* those fucking flying skulls that would fuck up your shit if left unattended, which were stopped right away by it.
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There's nothing to suggest that's changed though. All the chainsaw kills in the demo were on enemies who were fairly isolated.

If you're swarmed by enemies and can just run around chainsawing and melee finishing without taking a lot of damage, then that would be a huge issue.

Whether or not you can cancel out of those animations is a big question.
 
Funky Papa said:
I think the new chainsaw is a huge misunderstanding of how you used the old one, which would only get you proper rekt if used against a bunch of imps. All things considered, it was a pretty worthless weapon barring the badass factor. As far as I can remember, the chainsaw was only effective against isolated foot soldiers *and* those fucking flying skulls that would fuck up your shit if left unattended, which were stopped right away by it.
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Are we talking about doom classic's chainsaw?

It is very good against anything with a good painstate animation and against melee monsters in tight corridors (read 1 monster wide).
 
Ixion said:
There's nothing to suggest that's changed though. All the chainsaw kills in the demo were on enemies who were fairly isolated.

If you're swarmed by enemies and can just run around chainsawing and melee finishing without taking a lot of damage, then that would be a huge issue.

Whether or not you can cancel out of those animations is a big question.
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Well, what I meant is that more often than not you would never want to use the chainsaw, whereas in Nu Doom this doesn't seem to be the case. But maybe I'm wrong.

Dictator93 said:
Are we talking about doom classic's chainsaw?

It is very good against anything with a good painstate animation and against melee monsters in tight corridors (read 1 monster wide).
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Honestly, I only remember it working well against those two. Bigger enemies like pinkies would shrug it and give you chase like a motherfucker.
 
Looks good. But it is too slow and too easy from what I've seen. And where is Doom Marine face? Didn't seen it anywhere near health bar.

Going to watch it closely. Who knows it could be nice surprise after very good Wolfenstein game...
 
I think it would be cool if they added a "boost" button, like something equivalent to the dodge in Witcher 3 that was mapped to "B"/"Circle". Something that lets you dodge projectiles and melee attacks without turning player movement speed up to 11. The high run speed of Doomguy is something that everyone likes to nostalgia over, but there's no way it'd work in a modern engine. It'd be unwieldy and frankly it'd just look dumb. It only makes sense in the old Doom games because the level architecture is so abstract and there's so little verticality. Even Quake, which came out like 3 years later had vastly reduced player movement speed compared to the original Doom.

EDIT: Or maybe a better comparison would be the Metroid Prime boost-jump that you got by tapping "B". Just something that lets you get out of the way of projectiles with a well-timed button press. There's a middle-ground between having kinetic, positional gameplay and having Doomguy run around at 90 scale MPH. I hope they can find it.
 
purdobol said:
Looks good. But it is too slow and too easy from what I've seen. And where is Doom Marine face? Didn't seen it anywhere near health bar.

Going to watch it closely. Who knows it could be nice surprise after very good Wolfenstein game...
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IGN has pretty great quality videos from E3.
Here's one of Doom. Looks like a first person Ninja Gaiden. This game does not seem to be slow. Pretty sure it will feel much faster with a mouse/kb.
Good quality footage

Scroll down to the second video called "Hell campaign"
 
I know some people are complaining about speed, but the person is basically walking the character to show more of what's going on, but you can get glimpses of the actual speed of the movement when he isn't trying to show off the environment or walk around a corner.
 
SolidSnakeUS said:
I know some people are complaining about speed, but the person is basically walking the character to show more of what's going on, but you can get glimpses of the actual speed of the movement when he isn't trying to show off the environment or walk around a corner.
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It's tough to say what the speed actually is. Some of the fast speed also comes from the kill-moves, player jumps to enemy when executing that make it seem like the player is going really fast.

If I'd have to say what the most important thing is that's holding me back from having faith in this iteration is the gun gameplay. That includes hit feedback and gun balance - the guns need to be stronger. Shouldn't have to use more than one shot for an SS from a medium distance with a wide spread, and the same for a normal shotgun when its on target. For zombie marines and imps that is. I think that might be the most important mechanic that's been changed for the worse.
 
msv said:
If I'd have to say what the most important thing is that's holding me back from having faith in this iteration is the gun gameplay. That includes hit feedback and gun balance - the guns need to be stronger. Shouldn't have to use more than one shot for an SS from a medium distance with a wide spread, and the same for a normal shotgun when its on target. For zombie marines and imps that is. I think that might be the most important mechanic that's been changed for the worse.
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Yeah, my one major concern with this game is that the shotguns seem to be weaker in order to allow for more melee finishers. I think the devs can kill two birds with one stone by making the shotguns more powerful. Two reasons:

1) Everyone wants more powerful shotguns
2) Players won't be doing melee finishers as often, which will make them less reptitive
 
I just want to know how it will look on consoles. I doubt it will be that smooth on them. But it's the platform I'm getting it on. Hope it's at least decent on them.
 
The new clearer video tidies up the issues with distinct silhouettes for me, I could tell the soldiers from the heavy's from the imps etc. I think a lot of the problem for me was the different variations of soldiers which wasn't so clear in the first videos, but I could see just fine now.
 
Sciz said:
Chainsaw eats pinkies. Cacodemons too, if you can get close enough.
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You're all a bunch of scrubs if you didn't chainsaw a cyberdemon once.

I never want to do that, sorry Tarnsman.

And a lot of people don't seem to know the damage factors.


Barons of hell = 10-15 shotgun, 8 SSG, 3 rockets
Hell Knights = 2 SSG
Cacodemons = 2 SSG, 6 Shotgun
Pinkies = 3 Shotgun, 1 SSG
Imp = 1 shotgun, 1 SSG
Mancubus = 3 SSG, 3 rockets

Cyberdemon = 2 (up close) BFG, 20+ rockets, 50+ SSG
Mastermind = 1 BFG
 
jett said:
That framerate was all over the place. Gonna take a wild guess and assume console versions will be 30fps and it will take a beefy machine to get this running at 60.
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According to their lead tech dev they have a lot of work ahead of them. So, I would not take that video as being indicative of any level of performance. I would probably argue that the console versions will not have that fidelity at 60 though.
 
Renekton said:
There are many interpretations of what elements make a Doom game... I don't think cartoony color is it.
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And playing a game with these on, definitely does not.

images


With that said, it will not keep me from picking this up. However, I much prefer the actual Doom color palette in the color correction.
 
Corpsepyre said:
I downloaded this, but it's not 60. The gameplay itself was 30, but the conference was in 60. Is it the same for you? They didn't show this in 60, right?
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The gameplay has rare sections of 60 (when it starts and during isolated scenes when he picks up the SSG or the plasma rifle). It was usually much below 60.
 
I think the chainsaw would be better if you could spear lighter enemies on it and they get sawn through/fall away as you keep moving.

Obscuring a bunch of the screen would help balance it, lest one be able to run around with effectively a kebab stick.
 
Overside said:
That looks like about what I got out of it.

Absolutely pathetic level design.
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Expecting level design like classic doom is unrealistic. That map looks to have a bunch of branching paths to explore and some platforming due to the focus on double jumping and verticality, and that's only the second map. I'm fine with that. I would be worried if it looks like we're being pushed through a cinematic tunnel, but that's not the case.
 
Ixion said:
Expecting level design like classic doom is unrealistic. That map looks to have a bunch of branching paths to explore and some platforming due to the focus on double jumping and verticality, and that's only the second map. I'm fine with that. I would be worried if it looks like we're being pushed through a cinematic tunnel, but that's not the case.
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for reals lol.

Come on you expect it to look like a alien vendetta map or something?
D4YJPx2.jpg
 
CTLance said:
Last is something I can't quite put my finger on. Hell seemed kinda... tame. And the Demons didn't feel like Demons, but more like something created to look like ones. Hard to put into words why I arrived at that conclusion. Maybe there needs to be more blood and guts on the demons themselves.... or pus, flies, tentacles, wounds, etc. Minor quibble though, the other issues are more pressing.
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Its too "sci-fi", maybe that's the problem. The art design reminds me more of Quake 4 than Doom. Sure, classic Doom also had it's sci-fi moments, the first episode was supposed to be in a Mars base or something. But it was still much more sterile and subtle than the over the top designs of Doom 4 (and even Doom 3).

The other episodes didn't strike me as sci-fi either. When i think of classic Doom i think more of a sinister atmosphere with satanic imagery, candles, castles and hellish environments. I'd say the analogy of sci-fi to gothic/hell is around 2/8 out of 10. And yet both Doom 3 and Doom 4 seem to be more of a 9/1. And that "1" is pretty generous.

The art design of the monsters is also off. In classic Doom, monsters were more demonic and less robotic. Even Cyberdemon and Spider mastermind had their demon characteristics more pronounced than their cybernetic ones. It felt like you were fighting demons. The monsters in Doom 4 look more alien-ish ans sci-fi. Even the weapons seem off. Classic shotgun looked like the rough, old school shotgun. The shotgun in Doom 4 look like something out of Bioshock when you upgrade them with various parts.

In other words.... it has more Halo, Doom 3 and Quake 4 in it and less classic Doom.

Edit: Then there is the Cyberdemon... man the new one sucks. He even "rroooooaaaaars" at you while ducking and wobbling his head for maximum intimidation. What is this a children's horror theme park ride?


Doom_cyberdemon_h3.jpg


All you needed was hearing the "THUMP THUMP THUMP" of his heavy footsteps from the distance, becoming louder as he was approaching. And you shitted your pants. No "booooo" "roooooaaaarrr" "look at me i'm so scary and intimidating ooooo" moments. These tropes are only intimidating to the lowest common denominator.
 
Ixion said:
Expecting level design like classic doom is unrealistic. That map looks to have a bunch of branching paths to explore and some platforming due to the focus on double jumping and verticality, and that's only the second map. I'm fine with that. I would be worried if it looks like we're being pushed through a cinematic tunnel, but that's not the case.
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Sorry but why would it in any way be unrealistic? There's absolutely no reason it couldn't be done. It's already been done, we know it works, gameplay is not graphics and doesn't deteriorate. So please just stop with 'gaming has evolved/changed'. People were spouting that when 3D platformers took over from 2D ones. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.
 
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