Yeah, I see those comments sparsed in here too, but it doesn't feel like the main voice. I feel like people like me, who put a ton of time into Destiny and left it disappointed, get ignored because of a smaller group of people that drive-by post. It's like our opinions just gets rolled in with theirs.
Bungie apologizes for Taken King controversy, CE items to be sold separate
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Yeah, I see those comments sparsed in here too, but it doesn't feel like the main voice. I feel like people like me, who put a ton of time into Destiny and left it disappointed, get ignored because of a smaller group of people that drive-by post. It's like our opinions just gets rolled in with theirs.
akidnamededdy
Banned
You'd think it should be Activision apologizing for this.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Bungie have lost any of the good faith they built up with House of Wolves.
I'm not even sure I want to endorse their business practices any more. As a UK resident I think I've had enough.
I'm not even sure I want to endorse their business practices any more. As a UK resident I think I've had enough.
My press sneak fuck powers are very dependent on courageous people willing to talk.
And no, I've been holding the interview because of all this controversy. (Our interview doesn't touch upon any of the pricing or CE stuff.) Should be up either tomorrow or Monday.
Calling a company a shitbag does neither of those
So then say "x price point is too high. I won't purchase it at x dollars. I believe an acceptable price is y dollars. Here are my justifications for that price point." Tossing around insults nets nothing.
If that's all people did, you're right. But that's not what happened is it? You have multitudes of posts written by people expressing why they think Bungie are being shitbags. That's why they issued their "apology". The Red Bull/Water response was a direct, loud and hilarious response to Bungie being shitbags without actually calling them shitbags.
So basically you're just going to ignore all the actual, legit complaints and cherry pick the one that suits your purpose, eh? These threads are full of people with legit arguments. If you want to ignore them and convince yourself that poor little Bungie is being picked on unfairly, go for it.
Anton Sugar
Member
Heard he's off the deep edge when it comes to justifying some of this stuff. It's a shame, I used to follow him when I played Destiny, but I also jumped ship with the first DLC shitstorm, so maybe I missed his rants/videos on this stuff.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
"To our day one fans, we're not going to completely fuck you over. Pay $20 dollars to receive the finger fuck instead.."
All I got from that "apology".
All I got from that "apology".
Lalalandia
Member
He literally has videos with Raid 'fanfic' where he describes his amazing Raid ideas. That he has no problem with anything Bungie do is unsurprising.
No, the precedent is that vanity items in games are typically disproportionately expensive when compared to the game they belong to. I already gave my WoW example, but another example is Hearthstone:
Hearthstone is free to play.
You can buy new packs for $1.50, or an in-game currency.
You can buy a singleplayer add-on for $25, or in-game currency.
You can buy a purely cosmetic skin for $10.
Is $10 a fair price for one skin when you get nine skins for free? Is $10 a fair price for a cosmetic skin when $25 gets you new gameplay? Is anything a fair price when the base game is free?
The correct answer is that the value is determined by perception, "scarcity", marketing, and how important that content is to you. There is no formula for what a new emote in Destiny is actually worth since its insignificant compared to the amount of content you get in the base game. Of course its not actually worth $20 when compared to the full game.
Vanity items sell because they give players another way to differentiate themselves in a game where everyone has access to the same content - this is true in the real market just as much as it is in virtual marketplaces. Hence apples to oranges.
I suspect that most Destiny players will just shrug their shoulders and not buy the digital CE. They will treat it like any other digital goods that are overpriced.
I doubt that they will take it as insult to them personally, as many seem to here.
Lalalandia
Member
Well they get a physical token and other stuff digital purchasers don't get. Also are we saying it's only future potential customers who need their value protected?
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Well $20 is better than $80.
You should check out that MoreConsole dude. Guy's gotta be the biggest Bungie shill I've ever heard.
Dude Abides
Banned
Yeah I bet bungie is really confused about this. "All these internet posters are calling us 'shitbags' but won't say why. If only someone could explain the problem we'd change what we're doing."
Again missing the point completely. The anger began legitimately when Bungie decided to make people who bought the game and all the add ons spend an extra 40 dollars just to get those extras that Bungie were giving to new Destiny players who were...wait for it...buying Destiny and all the add-ons. Penalizing the fans that have been there for Bungie from Day one for being there for Bungie from day one. Then they reacted to the negative reaction with some of the absolute stupidest PR I've ever seen, to which they issued an apology basically saying, "Ooops, so sorry that we said what we actually mean. Please take this amazing gift of only having to pay another 20 dollars for stuff we're giving to players that didn't support us from day one."
It's actually 60 dollars, not 20.
Lalalandia
Member
$5 is better than both but what would be best is 'Hey we like you Destiny fans here ya go!' (Not personally interested as my Titan does the robot and who could ask for more really?). Let's acknowledge that this is better but a long way from good.
The Lamonster
Member
Datto's stuff was great during the beta but once the game came out, he tried to play armchair developer too often.
Planet Destiny is my YouTube channel of choice for Destiny information.
I think that's the opposite of what I was saying unless by "we" you're referring to something else? Can't really figure that out.
There's really nothing Bungie could do that would please people. If the $20 pack contained substantial content, people would yell P2W. If they don't, it's not enough for $20. If it's less than $20, then CE owners feel shafted comparing the difference in price with whatever extras they got and this thread would be about how Bungie doesn't have loyalty to their biggest fans. Hell, even just not selling the content in question gets a massive negative response.
That's been said countless times. You're being willfully naive. But go ahead and continue to pretend that it's been 80 pages of baseless insults with nothing to back them up.
That appears to be accurate, yes.
To me it doesn't matter at all that other games have sold cosmetic items for similar amounts or more. Bungie has already established a pricing model that is expansion based and doesn't have microtransactions. I've really appreciated Destiny's decision to not go the microtransaction route thus far. This cosmetic stuff is just a bundle of microtransactions. Basically I don't want to see an in-game store of purchaseable cosmetic items - or worse. Especially when most of the nicest looking shaders in the game are currently either RNG locked and very difficult to get, or locked behind end-game progression gates. I'll probably never get the God of War shader that's been around since release because of RNG... but I can buy a pack of shaders for $20. That's just lame.
I understand them wanting to add value to the collector's edition of this expansion, and adding cosmetic items is a harmless way to do that which won't give those players an advantage. That's good. But I also consider DLC having a collector's edition to be a bit ridiculous in its own right. And when you take the digital items only and say they're worth $20, it just doesn't match up with what Bungie has offered for $20 in the past. That's the only thing to compare it to because again, thankfully, the game is not littered with microtransactions. They've created the expectation that $20 gets you a pretty substantial chunk of content. I have my problems with the expansions that don't need to be reiterated, but I still thought I got my money's worth there with how much I've played them.
I understand them wanting to add value to the collector's edition of this expansion, and adding cosmetic items is a harmless way to do that which won't give those players an advantage. That's good. But I also consider DLC having a collector's edition to be a bit ridiculous in its own right. And when you take the digital items only and say they're worth $20, it just doesn't match up with what Bungie has offered for $20 in the past. That's the only thing to compare it to because again, thankfully, the game is not littered with microtransactions. They've created the expectation that $20 gets you a pretty substantial chunk of content. I have my problems with the expansions that don't need to be reiterated, but I still thought I got my money's worth there with how much I've played them.
I know what's happened. I just don't think the "I played this game in the first year of release so now I want every cosmetic item at little or no cost to me" mentality is all that common.
Additionally there are many people who see little-to-no value in that stuff anyway. "Someone else is paying some outrageous amount for some shaders? Okay, whatever." There are people like me, who will probably delete half the FREE shit that Bungie gives us because we don't care about it and just want inventory space.
Edit: I'm wrong, and your read was correct. Apologies!
So give them free to the legacy players. Those who see value in them will use them. Those who don't, won't. It's a simple consumer friendly solution that serves to fuck no one over.
It seems like you need both of the dlc packs to get the Taken King for the 40 dollar price point otherwise the only other one is the 60 dollar price point.
You're right. That was wrong of me. Just can't believe people are still complaining after getting exactly what they asked for.
Your answer is misleading. Someone who only owns Destiny can't simply buy The Taken King 40 dollar expansion. The 40 dollar expansion is only being sold to owners of Destiny who also bought the first two expansions. Unless I'm reading their product descriptions poorly.
1. That isn't what the whole community was asking for.
2. People can find the price to be ridiculous.
3. The retail CE comes with a ton of physical collectables.
4. Anybody buying the CE feels more or less like these emotes and such are free throw ins. It doesn't feel like you're paying for that stuff because you're getting a ton of content along with it. This is content that day 1 people have already paid $100 for and have to pay $40 more to get TTK. Throwing them those same emotes and such for free would be the proper response, not gouging them for another expansion-priced deal.
Lalalandia
Member
Didn't intend to condescend with my use of the royal we, I wrote it as you but it seemed more hostile that way?
I get your point mine was that the problem here is that Bungle failed to take into account the 'gottacatchemall' pokemon like attitude their game design explicitly encourages. If you design a game around rare loot and then introduce new loot only available via out of game purchases that's going to piss some folks off. Introduce them as part of a pack that requires debuting content and you may as well put a middle finger on your homepage as far as some are concerned. The relative value argument is hard to have as to some folk the orig deal was good enough and they'be already rebought.
Best way to win this game was not to play by offering a different reward for new players (like the vanguard armoury) or enabling an in game path to these rewards for those who so desire them. If it was just more plastic tat none too many would complain but it was game content and for some it has become emblematic of how Bungie takes them for granted. For me that's the TTK 40 price tag
Protomanx13
Neo Member
This parody song regarding the controversy is awesome: https://youtu.be/Kpi8tX2HPYk
"How come new players get those special items with the Collector's Edition? I thought they were supposed to be for me since I'm one of the very special people who played this game when it came out! It's not fair that they can just pay money to get the thing I achieved blah blah blah"
There is literally no end to the whining over MMO cosmetics, and it's just up to the developers to put their foot down at some point.
Anton Sugar
Member
Thanks, I'll check that out. I still hope to return to Destiny later this year.
I posted a similar thought last night. There's no way to price this stuff without also lowering the physical CE, which I doubt Activision would even consider.
The difference here is that what I'm talking about actually happened.
Princess Carl
Member
There were a few problems with the CE as it was initially announced. The first was the fact that the CE exclusive items were not for sale separately. The second was the implied price premium for them ($20). This was discussed / ranted about at great length before yesterday's post.
This move solves the first issue (which is good!) but not the second. So, people are still complaining about the second. They are selling nine cosmetic items for the same price of the House of Wolves. Think about that for a sec.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
The issue of 1:1 pricing is the main issue and mostly glossed over.
Is $20 for cosmetics overpriced? Yep. You betcha. Should be cheaper. The way they introduced that pricepoint, through an apology, is what is rubbing people up even more than it ususally would.
As for the hardened defenders, and there are a few in this thread, honestly it's getting boring now. There are plenty of us who love the game but aren't blind to what it going on here.
Eating it up just because "I think it's valuable" or "It's my GOTY hurr - durr" adds nothing to the discussion and overall issues at hand. Destiny is my GOTY but i don't need to accept their shitty consumer practices just because i enjoy their game.
Bungie themselves have released expansions at certain pricepoints and when they release more expansions it will be compared to what we already got. If they don't seem to match up then yes people will be pissed.
For the millionth time. $40 != £40.
Is $20 for cosmetics overpriced? Yep. You betcha. Should be cheaper. The way they introduced that pricepoint, through an apology, is what is rubbing people up even more than it ususally would.
As for the hardened defenders, and there are a few in this thread, honestly it's getting boring now. There are plenty of us who love the game but aren't blind to what it going on here.
Eating it up just because "I think it's valuable" or "It's my GOTY hurr - durr" adds nothing to the discussion and overall issues at hand. Destiny is my GOTY but i don't need to accept their shitty consumer practices just because i enjoy their game.
Bungie themselves have released expansions at certain pricepoints and when they release more expansions it will be compared to what we already got. If they don't seem to match up then yes people will be pissed.
For the millionth time. $40 != £40.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Like I said you keep on mentioning games with minimal entry costs, or are straight up f2p, there's a reason why the cosemetics are so expensive because that's where the majority of the games revenue will be from not from an up front $60.
Destiny is the exact opposite, not only did it costs $60 up front, it had ridiculously expensive dlc content (relative to what was actually there), and their now also price gouging through cosmetics.
it takes so wilful ignorance not to see the differences between the two, and I don't even like those payment models.
I get what you're saying, but I see it differently. I bought the Ghost Edition day one, and wasn't planning on buying the Taken King CE, however I do want the in-game items. I don't need more physical Destiny stuff, nor do I need the disc or the two DLC packs.
To me this $20 option for the in-game items I would only be able to get for $80 otherwise is exactly what I wanted.
LifEndz
Member
Actually, 4.99 would've been awesome and fair imo. 9.99... okay, they want to fatten their pockets. It's a business. 20 is just them going here you go cry babies, we apologize but eff you. Muah Ha Ha Ha!
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Are we considering the class items with buffs cosmetics still?
There's many examples of collectors edition digital content being available for sale. There's nothing wrong with them handling it this way and offering the content for sale especially since it's only cosmetic items.
Where did it ever happen? I don't remember an instance of collectors edition content being given away at the same time they are selling it to physical disc owners.