SCOTUS strikes down gay marriage bans, legalizing marriage equality nationwide

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Your gay friends never took you to gay bar or you've never seen a gay bar displaying rainbow flags before?

Here in Sydney or any parts of Australia for that matter, it's impossible not to see rainbow flag displayed outside some bar/establishment. It indicates that the place is an LGBT safe place.

I've been to a couple of pubs where gay crowds were common, but never to a 'gay bar', it's not their sort of thing, they're quite reserved people and do not feel the need to be part of the scene. Most of the time we just drink in our local which is a regular pub.

Maybe there is a flag at the gay crowd pub somewhere and I never noticed it/it's never come up. Without knowing I wouldn't pay it any special attention.

I'm in UK.
 
It looks absolutely awesome right now:

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This is really amazing. I remember just a decade ago a US president vocally supported a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. And this is the White House today.
 
I will do whatever I want mate. I've lived lots of years having to put up with bigots. IME Most of them are not interested to learn. But I do try if I can but I can't help but being skeptical every time someone brings up "my gay friend" as a defense.

I think its better to simply educate people if they ask to know.
 
I've been to a couple of pubs where gay crowds were common, but never to a 'gay bar', it's not their sort of thing, they're quite reserved people and do not feel the need to be part of the scene. Most of the time we just drink in our local which is a regular pub.

Maybe there is a flag at the gay crowd pub somewhere and I never noticed it/it's never come up. Without knowing I wouldn't pay it any special attention.

I'm in UK.

Neither do I. It doesn't mean it'd hurt to learn a few things about them. Especially when you are friends with them.

I think its better to simply educate people if they ask to know.

I think it's best if you leave your pontificating behind. Educating is fine and all but at some point it gets aggravating. Especially in this thread about celebration.
 
A Jesuit priest posted this and it came across my Facebook.



I think he's spot on. I think all these "Christians" (yes I purposefully put that in quotes) that have a problem wit gay marriage have been twisted. They bible actually doesn't say much on homosexuality. But you know it also says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

James Martin. Jesuits always seem a step ahead of the Catholic church.
 
This is really amazing. I remember just a decade ago a US president vocally supported a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. And this is the White House today.

It's a glorious moment in American history. It doesn't even affect me personally at all, but in the grand sense it's a monumental and important expansion of tolerance and acceptance in America and that's always a very healthy sign for a society. This is a day I can whole-heartedly say I'm proud of my country.
 
These are pictures from legalization of gay marriage in each jurisdiction.
Disgusting decadent perverts. Clearly a sign of horrific moral decay and the imminent collapse of our civilization.

...Is what a normal-thinking person would think upon seeing so many happy, wholesome people. Right? I mean that makes total sense no? xD
 
Neither do I. It doesn't mean it'd hurt to learn a few things about them. Especially when you are friends with them.

...because the topic of conversation is usually TV, movies, sports, day to day life and such things, not "Tell me all about the gay world". It does come up occasionally, just never the rainbow..
 
...because the topic of conversation is usually TV, movies, sports, day to day life and such things, not "Tell me all about the gay world". It does come up occasionally, just never the rainbow..

Exactly what I was saying.
Im a Catholic living with two atheist roommates every day and yet they couldnt tell you all the Christian symbols or what mass is like or even most of what I believe. Sometimes people just keep certain things to themselves and those in groups they intimately know.
 
...because the topic of conversation is usually TV, movies, sports, day to day life and such things, not "Tell me all about the gay world". It does come up occasionally, just never the rainbow..

Well, now you know. Your friends can probably tell you about other things as well if you ask them.
 
Glad America has finally arrived. Hopefully more good things to come in the future. I'm very happy to hear this news. My girlfriend and i were shouting in the car today when we heard the news. FINALLY
 
All Kennedy.

Justice Kennedy Cements His Legacy On Gay Rights With Marriage Ruling


WASHINGTON — With the Supreme Court's ruling that ended marriage bans for same-sex couples nationwide on Friday, Justice Anthony Kennedy cemented his legacy.

He is, in short, the person whose words brought gay, lesbian, and bisexual people fully under the protections of the Constitution.

"Under the Constitution, same-sex couples seek in marriage the same legal treatment as opposite-sex couples, and it would disparage their choices and diminish their personhood to deny them this right," he wrote in Friday's opinion for the court in Obergefell v. Hodges.

Twelve years to the day that Kennedy wrote the court's opinion ending sodomy laws across the nation, he wrote the opinion ending marriage bans across the nation.

He did so against harsh criticism from four of his colleagues — all of whom wrote their own opinions explaining why they believed Kennedy and the four more liberal justices, who joined his opinion, were wrong.

Among the dissenting justices was Chief Justice John Roberts, who called the court's decision "an act of will, not legal judgment."

For Kennedy, though, the "legal judgment" has been one a long time in the making. In deciding that the "right to marry" applies "with equal force to same-sex couples," Kennedy laid out four principles that underpinned Friday's decision regarding the Fourteenth Amendment's "fundamental rights" due process protections. None of them should have been surprising to anyone on the court — or anyone who has watched Kennedy's two-decade journey on gay rights.

First, Kennedy wrote that the protection of marital choice by the Supreme Court has, in significant part, been about the protection of "individual autonomy." In other words, marriage — as a constitutional protection — is about "choices ... that shape an individual's destiny." Marriage is not only a right about a couple; it also is a right exercised by an individual choosing to enter into a marriage.

Second, Kennedy wrote that marriage, as more commonly understood, "supports a two-person union unlike any other in its importance to the committed individuals." This is protection for what he goes on to detail as "intimate association" — protection underlying Kennedy's 2003 opinion in Lawrence v. Texas striking down sodomy laws.

Marriage, Kennedy wrote third, "safeguards children and families." He continued at length on this subject on Friday, writing, "Excluding same-sex couples from marriage thus conflicts with a central premise of the right to marry. Without the recognition, stability, and predictability marriage offers, their children suffer the stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser." This "central premise" of safeguarding children is not new; the argument played a part in Kennedy's 2013 opinion for the court in United States v. Windsor that struck down part of the Defense of Marriage Act.

In his fourth and final point, Kennedy wrote that marriage "is a keystone of our social order." He wrote, "There is no difference between same- and opposite-sex couples with respect to this principle." This echoed Kennedy's first gay rights opinion in Romer v. Evans — which struck down a Colorado amendment in 1996 that barred local nondiscrimination protections for gays and lesbians. In that opinion, he wrote that a law that "classifies homosexuals not to further a proper legislative end but to make them unequal to everyone else" is unconstitutional.

The case on Friday, in fact, was about more than marriage, Kennedy wrote.

The case also was about the equal protection of the laws — the kind of dual-track approach to finding provisions unconstitutional that has drawn scorn from academics and court watchers. On Friday, Kennedy seemed ready to defend his approach.

"In any particular case one Clause [of the Constitution] may be thought to capture the essence of the right in a more accurate and comprehensive way, even as the two Clauses may converge in the identification and definition of the right," he wrote. "This interrelation of the two principles furthers our understanding of what freedom is and must become."

What freedom must become, he went on to write, is a goal that the court has strived to meet in the past, over decades of marriage cases — from protections for interracial couples and protections against "sex-based inequality" in marriage.

"Especially against a long history of disapproval of their relationships, this denial to same-sex couples of the right to marry works a grave and continuing harm. The imposition of this disability on gays and lesbians serves to disrespect and subordinate them," Kennedy wrote. "And the Equal Protection Clause, like the Due Process Clause, prohibits this unjustified infringement of the fundamental right to marry."

Kennedy took hits from the dissenting justices for lacking caution — a criticism raised by Roberts — and not respecting the democratic process, a criticism raised by Justice Samuel Alito.

In response to the "democratic process" argument, Kennedy was short. "The dynamic of our constitutional system is that individuals need not await legislative action before asserting a fundamental right. ... An individual can invoke a right to constitutional protection when he or she is harmed, even if the broader public disagrees and even if the legislature refuses to act."

Regarding the "caution" argument, Kennedy pointed to the court's own experience of having held that sodomy laws were unconstitutional in 2003 after upholding them as allowed in 1986. "Although Bowers was eventually repudiated in Lawrence," Kennedy wrote on Friday, "men and women were harmed in the interim, and the substantial effects of these injuries no doubt lingered long after Bowers was overruled."

Kennedy most harshly responded, however, to a point raised by Justice Antonin Scalia. Among other criticisms, the acerbic conservative lambasted Friday's decision as not being legitimate since those who ratified that Fourteenth Amendment in 1868 did not allow same-sex couples to marry.

"If rights were defined by who exercised them in the past, then received practices could serve as their own continued justification and new groups could not invoke rights once denied," Kennedy responded. "This Court has rejected that approach, both with respect to the right to marry and the rights of gays and lesbians."

While the "right to marry" cases of the court, have been written by many justices over many decades, the "rights of gays and lesbians" did not exist in Supreme Court jurisprudence until Kennedy started protecting them.

Nearly 20 years after he wrote his first gay rights opinion, in writing about the men and women in the marriage cases before the court, Kennedy also captured his legacy on gay rights.

"They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law," he wrote. "The Constitution grants them that right."
 
So guys, when does the apocalypse happen? I've been waiting all day and it's nearly 11 P.M. here in the east coast. So far, the only thing I found close to the apocalypse is my toast today was more burnt than usual.

Our politicians might be a little late and slow, but ...
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That's really beautiful.
 
So guys, when does the apocalypse happen? I've been waiting all day and it's nearly 11 P.M. here in the east coast. So far, the only thing I found close to the apocalypse is my toast today was more burnt than usual.

On Monday, the apocalypse is taking the weekend off.
 
So guys, when does the apocalypse happen? I've been waiting all day and it's nearly 11 P.M. here in the east coast. So far, the only thing I found close to the apocalypse is my toast today was more burnt than usual.



That's really beautiful.

Well the apocalypse will surely start in either Nyc or San Francisco and spread toward middle America. So give it time.

In all seriousness it's cool that the decision came right before gay pride parade in NYC.

Divorce lawyers rejoice!
 
Well, I'm certainly glad that Gays and Lesbians finally have the right to get married however I'll have to dig in to and read the Court's opinion and Scalia's dissent before I can decide whether I agree with the Court's rationale.
 
Well, I'm certainly glad that Gays and Lesbians finally have the right to get married however I'll have to dig in to and read the Court's opinion and Scalia's dissent before I can decide whether I agree with the Court's rationale.

Rationale: Marriage is a critical civil right and preventing LGBT from getting married and afforded the benefits and dignity and family unit dependability of a marriage is enshrined discrimination.
 
Aaaah, so happy right now!! <3
I wanted to draw something to celebrate, but I can barely contain myself.

There is very clearly a tendency when progress is made for the pressure level to go down. For example, when the most obvious legal restrictions against people by gender and race were solved, the movements to address remaining deficiencies largely stalled out. This is generally accepted as true with respect to both the women's liberation movement and the civil rights movements--after the right to vote and late social acceptance of women working, subsequent issues lacked broader popular support and the most marginalized people stayed marginalized (the entire women of color third wave critique of second wave feminism is basically this kind of thing); after the end of miscegenation, forced school integration, the VRA, and housing laws, a broad tendency emerged to view racism as "solved" or "mostly gone" or "individual racists" rather than a systemic thing that required more work. Literally hundreds or thousands of books and accounts of these movements have come to these conclusions.

Certainly the language is hyperbolic and buzzkill-y and even seems a little selfish and callous to be dumping on a moment where a real victory was won, but the purported problem seems fairly reasonable. I suspect that for many Americans, the idea that gays occupy an unequal place in society ends with this issue, and subsequent issues like broader employment protections, for example, will have less gas in their engines. I think one of the reasons why trans activists over the last few years have increasingly tried to establish their voices as distinct from the general LBGT umbrella is in part the fear that this kind of scenario will occur.

I think we can best be served by listening to groups pleas for help rather than writing our own checklist of what people ought to expect and declaring the job done. If we approach issues with this kind of empathy, we help avoid this kind of problem.

The language and tone of these super militant hyperbolic combative critical post certainly are incredibly off-putting, jarring, and uncomfortable in conjunction with a historic joyous day like this.

However, as you've stated there really isn't anything wrong with pointing out the fact that we shouldn't be forgetting about gender related issues (that effect both trans people and gender non-conforming queer/straight cis folk) or the myriad of other problems that still effect the whole LGBT umbrella because we've tallied a win with same-sex marriage today.
Honestly, it's great that a few people are speaking up about this and getting noticed; it keeps allies/friends on their toes and educates clueless cis people.
I don't fault anybody for being angry with or being put-off by post like that though.
 
Just a question: can any state now decline this order? or is it final and not up for discussion?

it's gonna be glorious seeing that one judge (from Alabama I think?) grumble about how they must give out marriage licenses now. heheheh.
 
It's going to be nuts in SF this weekend. I remember last year there was a bunch of alcohol poisonings and people went missing. Stay safe!
 
There are apparently some counties stalling, probably to see if they have any options.

While it's the law, there's still a few weeks before the Supreme Court ruling will be 100% enforceable (basically to give states time to adjust to the new law).

Some states and counties are already going full steam ahead, others are digging their heels in and stalling.

It's not going to accomplish anything though, they're still going to have to issue those licenses.
 
Dawns on me one unrelated negative to this ruling...

It possibly gives some good ammo to the states suing Colorado regarding the Marijuana law conflicting with federal law...
 
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yes, it is real
This is amazing.
The problem is a lot of Texas is very rural, and very conservative. If the governor lets them play fast and lose with the ruling until the feds crack down on him, it puts a lot of couples out of luck, as the nearest county seat, where you could get a license, could be pretty damn far away, provided you even live near one that would issue you one and not play the discrimination game as well.
Its really not a big deal. Unless someone lives in like the panhandle and their county wont given them the license. Otherwise, the counties that comprise Houston, Austin, san Antonio and Dallas are all an hour or so away from the so called rural areas.

Crazy, the first couple to get married in Harris county is a guy I went to college with. Not sure if he was out then, but everyone knew he was gay. The odd part, he was a leader in the young republicans group at the university.
 
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