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[Messypandas]

"Be their hero, their savior, their angel. Or don't. Whatevs. Maybe get some takeout. I'm hungry."

"Or you know, be yourself and don't feel pressured to be who others want you to be"

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Apologies if already answered, whats the speculation on the opening of the body bag with zod in it?

Being used to make

Spoiler

Doomsday

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Apologies if already answered, whats the speculation on the opening of the body bag with zod in it?

The speculation appears to break down 3 lines:

1) They're using his armor to reverse-engineer their own armor
2) They're using his body to try and create their own Superman
3) They're using his body to try and create Doomsday.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Everything looks incredible but I know that Snyder is good at making trailers. Now, I've enjoyed Watchmen from him but still think that he is one of the worst directors of the last 15 year, my hype is conflicted.

Why do people constantly write the most ridiculous hyperbolic nonsense on a regular basis on gaf? You may not like him and think he's not great, I get that. One of the worst directors in the last 15 years is just a horrible, horrible comment on the other hand.

 

[keltickennedy]

Apologies if already answered, whats the speculation on the opening of the body bag with zod in it?

Lexcorp has it and is researching it to find any weaknesses to Superman.

I hope they don't...

Spoiler

Make Zod turn into Doomsday

 

[Messypandas]

Apologies if already answered, whats the speculation on the opening of the body bag with zod in it?

My theory is (just a theory) they're going to reverse engineer the Kryptonite by finding out what Zod was weak too (somehow).

 

[20cent]

I don't know much about the DC universe and especially Wonder Woman beside the awful 70's TV show, but all I see in this trailer is a prettier Xena

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Pretty sure that is from The Joker.

Everyone's going this way, sure. The letter looks like something Joker would do (especially since it looks like the same thing on Robin's suit) But it also seems pretty clear that Luthor is manipulating a fight between Batman and Superman for whatever reasons. Maybe it's from the Joker, sure. But Luthor is the bad guy of this film still. And Superman fighting Batman is never a good thing. And he seems really happy about the prospect.

 

[The Cretan]

Why do people constantly write the most ridiculous hyperbolic nonsense on a regular basis on gaf? You may not like him and think he's not great, I get that. One of the worst directors in the last 15 years is just a horrible, horrible comment on the other hand.

Vampirolol finds him the worst director of the last 15 years. Someone else doesn't. I don't get why it's a horrible comment.

 

[Raiden]

Goddamn Jeremy Irons voice gives me goosebumps. Its looking really fucking cool. Baffleck has me convinced.

 

[Effect]

He's still got the ring on.

So does Jennifer Garner from the article I saw.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Goddamn Jeremy Irons voice gives me goosebumps. Its looking really fucking cool. Baffleck has me convinced.

Jeremy Irons has the ability to make shit like Eragon watchable. Great choice for Alfred.

 

[Oddduck]

The visuals in his movies are great but damn he can't make the story flow, it's always like watching a long trailer. It worked for a little but now I find it boring, with Man of Steel on top of that, whoever is in charge of editing Snyder's movies has 50% of the fault. I hope that a good script will eventually make Batman V Superman solid, like Watchmen.

Snyder makes better movies when he was a good writer attached.

Look at Dawn of the Dead (2004).

75% on Rottentomatoes. Written by James Gunn.

Snyders worst movies were written by Snyder. (Sucker Punch, 300)

Batman vs Superman has a writer who was attached to an Oscar winning movie.

 

[3N16MA]

You don't just evacuate a major city like that. They had little warning of the attack so it stands to reason the city was still mostly occupied, and the general lack of citizens was an oversight.

Like I said, I should have said buildings. It's obvious that the world engine did not get to Wayne's building which means it was still standing during the Zod fight. I would think that most of the people in that building would have left after witnessing the city getting destroyed similar to how the Daily Planet was evacuated.

The article seems to be specifically about Wayne's building which means instead of hundreds dying in that building only dozens died. Maybe more died on the street when it collapsed.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

The speculation appears to break down 3 lines:

1) They're using his armor to reverse-engineer their own armor
2) They're using his body to try and create their own Superman
3) They're using his body to try and create Doomsday.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Doomsday sequel would be dope if done right.

Why does everyone seem to dismiss the watchmen as a decent Snyder film?

 

[keltickennedy]

Everyone's going this way, sure. The letter looks like something Joker would do (especially since it looks like the same thing on Robin's suit) But it also seems pretty clear that Luthor is manipulating a fight between Batman and Superman for whatever reasons. Maybe it's from the Joker, sure. But Luthor is the bad guy of this film still. And Superman fighting Batman is never a good thing. And he seems really happy about the prospect.

I never said Joker was the bad guy in the film.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I never said Joker was the bad guy in the film.

I know you didn't. I just said that it's possible the letter ISN'T from Joker BECAUSE he's not the bad guy in the film, Luthor is.

 

[Raiden]

Vampirolol finds him the worst director of the last 15 years. Someone else doesn't. I don't get why it's a horrible comment.

It is a horrible hyperbole comment. Some people forget that there are directors like Uwe Boll out there. But i guess its cooler to hate on something that is popular and liked by many people. We should all fucking thank Snyder for being able to bring back Supes to the big screen after the abomination that was Returns.

 

[Bracewell]

Everyone's going this way, sure. The letter looks like something Joker would do (especially since it looks like the same thing on Robin's suit) But it also seems pretty clear that Luthor is manipulating a fight between Batman and Superman for whatever reasons. Maybe it's from the Joker, sure. But Luthor is the bad guy of this film still. And Superman fighting Batman is never a good thing. And he seems really happy about the prospect.

How secure is Bruce Wayne's identity as Batman?

Spoiler

What if that bit from the Suicide Squad trailer, where Joker says "I'm not going to kill you", is actually directed at Dick Grayson?

Spoiler

Maybe that letter is from Grayson, who is now the Red Hood.

I suspect neither Joker nor Luthor knows Bruce is Batman. Unless

Spoiler

Dick

gave it away.

 

[G-Fex]

The speculation appears to break down 3 lines:

1) They're using his armor to reverse-engineer their own armor
2) They're using his body to try and create their own Superman
3) They're using his body to try and create Doomsday.

that could have BIZZARO results.

Wish Bizzaro was in this

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Vampirolol finds him the worst director of the last 15 years. Someone else doesn't. I don't get why it's a horrible comment.

Because it's a ridiculous statement. Watch some of the terrible movies that come out every year and stating that his movies are directed worse than those is laughable.

It is a horrible hyperbole comment. Some people forget that there are directors like Uwe Boll out there. But i guess its cooler to hate on something that is popular and liked by many people. We should all fucking thank Snyder for being able to bring back Supes to the big screen after the abomination that was Returns.

I shouldn't have replied to it to be honest. Insufferable comments like those will be found in regards to anything and every type of topic, so it's best to ignore and pretend that my braincells didn't disappear after reading them.

 

[glaurung]

Weird-ass long trailer.

Loved Clark, loved Bruce - but I think that Jesse is going to steal the show. Gadot looks gaudy.

 

[Messypandas]

So this is the "Elseworld" World War 2 Bat costume. Inspiration?

 

[Garlador]

I'm trying, I really am. My inner child would kill for this. But... I felt nothing watching the trailer. It was a combination of inspirational mottos ("people fear what they don't understand" is always going to be my x-men motto), epic explosions, and brooding.

My friend asked "do you think it's grim and self-important enough?"

I will still give it all the benefit of the doubt, but apart from loving the Batsuit and Gary Oldman, I just haven't been won over. I'm trying, I swear, but I'm sadly still apathetic.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

that could have BIZZARO results.

Wish Bizzaro was in this

He would never be what we want him to be

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How secure is Bruce Wayne's identity as Batman?

I'm not sure anything you stuck behind spoiler tags is actually a spoiler.

Anyway, the Joker did it/where's Jason Todd stuff seems to be needlessly complicating the possible narrative here, and would really clutter up the movie the way people have been worried since the film's cast was announced. The film has three superheroes in main roles, with a few others in very minor/cameo roles, A main villain, a sub-villain, and probably some sort of weapon/threat as a result of those machinations.

To then introduce an entire subplot that won't get touched on for at least another movie, if not three or four, centering on two more antagonists, both of whom won't get dealt with thoroughly until another 4 or 5 years, just seems unneccessary.

The bad guy in this film is Lex Luthor. He apparently engineers a fight between Batman and Superman, as well as anti-Superman sentiment within the government itself. The threat he unleashes (whatever it might be) is big enough that the Trinity has to come together to combat it.

Anything that gets in the way of leading to that point, and gets in the way SOLELY to set up some other movie somewhere else down the line just seems like the kind of "world-building" bullshit that gets in the way of storytelling and ends up getting complained about by everyone who watches the film. "The movie was good until we had to stop down and set up two or three sequels we're not gonna watch for another 3 years"

 

[Real Hero]

wonder women looks awkward as fuck.

 

[3N16MA]

I'm trying, I really am. My inner child would kill for this. But... I felt nothing watching the trailer. It was a combination of inspirational mottos ("people fear what they don't understand" is always going to be my x-men motto), epic explosions, and brooding.

My friend asked "do you think it's grim and self-important enough?"

I will still give it all the benefit of the doubt, but apart from loving the Batsuit and Gary Oldman, I just haven't been won over. I'm trying, I swear, but I'm sadly still apathetic.

Gary Oldman? He was Gordon in the Nolan trilogy. I think you mean Jeremy Irons.

 

[Shepard]

So they acknowledged all that destruction at the end of MoS AND used it as a main plot point in the 'sequel'? Mad respect Snyder.

 

[The Cretan]

It is a horrible hyperbole comment. Some people forget that there are directors like Uwe Boll out there.

That doesn't mean that Snyder is objectively a good director, so we can call somebody's negative comment on him hyperbole.

But i guess its cooler to hate on something that is popular and liked by many people

Maybe he didn't want to be cool, maybe he just doesn't like Snyder's work.

We should all fucking thank Snyder for being able to bring back Supes to the big screen after the abomination that was Returns.

If Snyder made Man of Steel like a movie you find bad, we should thank him just because he brought him back?

I think Snyder is a very good director, I just don't get the gaf's trend of "your taste sucks."

 

[BadAss2961]

wonder women looks awkward as fuck.

Why do half the people that come in with a Wonder Woman jab make this mistake?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

So they acknowledged all that destruction at the end of MoS AND used it as a main plot point in the 'sequel'? Mad respect Snyder.

I like that in all the handwringing over the fictional destruction of make-believe buildings filled with non-existent citizens, the power of fiction is going to make it that audiences have to accept the make-believe losses were actually way less than they'd thought the imaginary losses were.

"Look. The newspaper says only like, 30 people died in the one building that fell over."
"Oh. huh. well, I, uh. I guess most of the people did get out of the way of the Intergalactic Dubstep Gun, then."

Why do half the people that come in with a Wonder Woman jab make this mistake?

Same reason people who want to cack on Lois call her Louis. Autocorrect finds a way.

 

[Alienous]

I'm not sure anything you stuck behind spoiler tags is actually a spoiler.

Anyway, the Joker did it/where's Jason Todd stuff seems to be needlessly complicating the possible narrative here, and would really clutter up the movie the way people have been worried since the film's cast was announced. The film has three superheroes in main roles, with a few others in very minor/cameo roles, A main villain, a sub-villain, and probably some sort of weapon/threat as a result of those machinations.

To then introduce an entire subplot that won't get touched on for at least another movie, if not three or four, centering on two more antagonists, both of whom won't get dealt with thoroughly until another 4 or 5 years, just seems unneccessary.

The bad guy in this film is Lex Luthor. He apparently engineers a fight between Batman and Superman, as well as anti-Superman sentiment within the government itself. The threat he unleashes (whatever it might be) is big enough that the Trinity has to come together to combat it.

Anything that gets in the way of leading to that point, and gets in the way SOLELY to set up some other movie somewhere else down the line just seems like the kind of "world-building" bullshit that gets in the way of storytelling and ends up getting complained about by everyone who watches the film. "The movie was good until we had to stop down and set up two or three sequels we're not gonna watch for another 3 years"

I'm getting the sense that planting Joker seeds might be an attempt at universe building that might be overzealous.

Maybe the 'Ha ha joke's on you Batman' is a post-credits scene, because I'm not sure how they would bring up a Joker sub-plot mid film that they leave trailing. Maybe the 'You let your family die' is a separate, Luthor-related, thing.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Wonder Woman is pretty jarring in the trailer

 

[Bracewell]

I'm not sure anything you stuck behind spoiler tags is actually a spoiler.

Eh, better safe than sorry.

Anyway, the Joker did it/where's Jason Todd stuff seems to be needlessly complicating the possible narrative here, and would really clutter up the movie the way people have been worried since the film's cast was announced. The film has three superheroes in main roles, with a few others in very minor/cameo roles, A main villain, a sub-villain, and probably some sort of weapon/threat as a result of those machinations.

To then introduce an entire subplot that won't get touched on for at least another movie, if not three or four, centering on two more antagonists, both of whom won't get dealt with thoroughly until another 4 or 5 years, just seems unneccessary.

The bad guy in this film is Lex Luthor. He apparently engineers a fight between Batman and Superman, as well as anti-Superman sentiment within the government itself. The threat he unleashes is big enough that the Trinity has to come together to combat it.

Anything that gets in the way of leading to that point as a means to SOLELY set up some other movie somewhere else down the line just seems like the kind of "world-building" bullshit that gets in the way of storytelling and ends up getting complained about by everyone who watches the film. "The movie was good until we had to stop down and set up two or three sequels we're not gonna watch for another 3 years"

The narrative seems pretty complicated from the outset. The Amazonian princess is going to need an introduction, the Atlantean might, depending on whether he's relegated to a cameo or not. A 20-year reign for the Batman is going to need some 'splainin'.

It's got "Dawn of Justice" in the title, I don't think they're acting coy about this being a two-hour advertisement for a Justice League movie. I'm pretty sure they're going to sow some seeds here and there for the other properties in development, whether they do it competently or not. Why not do the Red Hood as well? Batman has always been THE priority for WB/DC.

 

[bob_arctor]

I'm trying, I really am. My inner child would kill for this. But... I felt nothing watching the trailer. It was a combination of inspirational mottos ("people fear what they don't understand" is always going to be my x-men motto), epic explosions, and brooding.

My friend asked "do you think it's grim and self-important enough?"

I will still give it all the benefit of the doubt, but apart from loving the Batsuit and Gary Oldman, I just haven't been won over. I'm trying, I swear, but I'm sadly still apathetic.

Oddly enough, anyone asking "Do you think it's grim and self-important enough?" strikes me as more dour and self-important than anything in the trailer.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I'm getting the sense that planting Joker seeds might be an attempt at universe building that might be overzealous.

Maybe the 'Ha ha joke's on you Batman' is a post-credits scene, because I'm not sure how they would bring up a Joker sub-plot mid film that they leave trailing. Maybe the 'You let your family die' is a separate thing.

Again, if Batman's been around a while and let a dangerous psychotic criminal kill Robin, it might actually explain further why he wants to "destroy" someone like Superman. Batman wanting to destroy anything is uncharacteristic, he'd need a damn good reason to do it.

"How many good men are left in Gotham?" or something to that affect also seems to be a Robin allusion.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Maybe the 'Ha ha joke's on you Batman' is a post-credits scene, because I'm not sure how they would bring up a Joker sub-plot mid film.

I don't even think it's a bit of sub-plot, honestly. It's just detail. Batman's been quits for about a decade? There's your physical evidence as to why. It's visual storytelling, not a mystery that he needs to solve, but a reminder as to what his lifestyle cost him. And you can communicate all of that non-verbally in that one shot. It's no more a sub-plot than there being a bat-cave for him to wander around in is a sub-plot.

 

[firelogic]

The music in the trailer was epic.

 

[3N16MA]

I'm getting the sense that planting Joker seeds might be an attempt at universe building that might be overzealous.

Maybe the 'Ha ha joke's on you Batman' is a post-credits scene, because I'm not sure how they would bring up a Joker sub-plot mid film that they leave trailing. Maybe the 'You let your family die' is a separate, Luthor-related, thing.

It's part of his history and is striking visually because it conveys what his life as Batman has cost. No need to introduce a whole sub-plot.


EDIT: Bobby pretty much covered it above.

 

[Byakuya769]

That looked pretty damn good!

 

[Lovely Salsa]

What is wonder woman doing there tho? Kinda ruins it

 

[DrunkDan]

I agree with those that said the Joker's line in the Squad trailer

Spoiler

might have been the torture/murder of whoever Robin is.

That was my first thought when I heard it, would set up a solo Batman film fantastically.

 

[Bracewell]

I don't even think it's a bit of sub-plot, honestly. It's just detail. Batman's been quits for about a decade? There's your physical evidence as to why. It's visual storytelling, not a mystery that he needs to solve, but a reminder as to what his lifestyle cost him. And you can communicate all of that non-verbally in that one shot. It's no more a sub-plot than there being a bat-cave for him to wander around in is a sub-plot.

That's an unfathomable amount of subtlety and restraint to expect from this.

 

[Alienous]

I don't even think it's a bit of sub-plot, honestly. It's just detail. Batman's been quits for about a decade? There's your physical evidence as to why. It's visual storytelling, not a mystery that he needs to solve, but a reminder as to what his lifestyle cost him. And you can communicate all of that non-verbally in that one shot. It's no more a sub-plot than there being a bat-cave for him to wander around in is a sub-plot.

I thought that initially, but I was sure there was a shot of the Robin suit without the lettering on it (the far shot of the Batcave), but on second inspection I guess it's there throughout.

 

[Messypandas]

I agree with those that said the Joker's line in the Squad trailer

Spoiler

might have been the torture/murder of whoever Robin is.

That was my first thought when I heard it, would set in the solo Batman film fantastically.

This is my line of thinking, the letter is from someone who knows who Batman is...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Eh, better safe than sorry.

Spoilering speculation sometimes leads to people accidentally clicking on something they thought would be speculation and ends up being legitimate spoilers. It ends up confusing people, basically. If you're just guessing at stuff, it's not really a spoiler, and if your guesses aren't actually based on spoilers, putting them behind tags just confuses things: Is your guess actually a spoiler now? Is the real spoiler I just read actually a guess? I hope it's a guess because I didn't want to spoil myself really, the only reason I'm clicking these black bars is because someone said it was just a guess.

That sorta thing.

The narrative seems pretty complicated from the outset.

Maybe - but I don't know that it being inherently complicated as it stands means it's then okay to just ladle on more complication, especially if the only reason to do so is because people like Jason Todd/Red Hood. To me, that's not a good enough reason to introduce a bunch of stray plot threads that the movie will never actually address during its runtime or in any of the direct sequels.

Basically, any Red Hood shit that gets brought up in this movie will have to wait until after both Justice League films before you can get to it - which also means it'll have to wait until after the Flash & Wonder Woman movies.

The way they're using Batman this time around looks more like "he's going to show up in your movie," sorta making every DC movie a team-up film in some way. Giving him a central, super-personal mystery thread to track through all these movies would be ambitious - but it would also likely just be tedious, i.e. "Oh shit, here we go. We gotta stop to let Batman do his "WHO IS THE RED HOOD" Bullshit for 10 minutes before we can get back to the movie we were enjoying. Yay. Thanks DC."

That's an unfathomable amount of subtlety and restraint to expect from this.

I dont' think it's unfathomable at all. I don't think it'll stay unspoken - I'd bet Alfred's gonna say something that directly references it, and there might be a conversation (leading to that 20 years in Gotham line) but I'm just pointing out that you could just let that sit there and people would understand what it means. We're all having a really easy time of figuring it out ourselves - so much so that we're trying to make it more complicated.

 

[Schweinehund]

There's going to be ties to squad for sure. I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I like these little easter eggs, even when I'm not sure what they are at first. Having to explain everything to the audience like they're five ruins the subtlety. I don't think they're going to explain Jason, they'll just show the suit and imply Bruce feels a lot of regret and that was the reason he retired. If an audience can't figure out from a damaged suit and the joker's writing that a robin is dead, then they're pretty dumb.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

I completely missed the TDKR reference in the trailer until I saw a gif of it:

 

[Bracewell]

Spoilering speculation sometimes leads to people accidentally clicking on something they thought would be speculation and ends up being legitimate spoilers. It ends up confusing people, basically. If you're just guessing at stuff, it's not really a spoiler, and if your guesses aren't actually based on spoilers, putting them behind tags just confuses things: Is your guess actually a spoiler now? Is the real spoiler I just read actually a guess? I hope it's a guess because I didn't want to spoil myself really, the only reason I'm clicking these black bars is because someone said it was just a guess.

That sorta thing.

I thought there might be a few folks who don't know that Dick Grayson bought it instead of Jason Todd, so it felt safe to spoiler-tag everything, speculation and all. Unless Grayson's death was misdirection, as someone else pointed out.

Maybe - but I don't know that it being inherently complicated as it stands means it's then okay to just ladle on more complication, especially if the only reason to do so is because people like Jason Todd/Red Hood. To me, that's not a good enough reason to introduce a bunch of stray plot threads that the movie will never actually address during its runtime or in any of the direct sequels.

Basically, any Red Hood shit that gets brought up in this movie will have to wait until after both Justice League films before you can get to it - which also means it'll have to wait until after the Flash & Wonder Woman movies.

The way they're using Batman this time around looks more like "he's going to show up in your movie," sorta making every DC movie a team-up film in some way. Giving him a central, super-personal mystery thread to track through all these movies would be ambitious - but it would also likely just be tedious, i.e. "Oh shit, here we go. We gotta stop to let Batman do his "WHO IS THE RED HOOD" Bullshit for 10 minutes before we can get back to the movie we were enjoying. Yay. Thanks DC."



I dont' think it's unfathomable at all. I don't think it'll stay unspoken - I'd bet Alfred's gonna say something that directly references it, and there might be a conversation (leading to that 20 years in Gotham line) but I'm just pointing out that you could just let that sit there and people would understand what it means. We're all having a really easy time of figuring it out ourselves - so much so that we're trying to make it more complicated.

I think it's unfathomable because of the audience that WB/DC wants to reach/cannibalize from Marvel. These movies need to appeal to the widest possible demographic, which includes people who have no conception of superheroes beyond Batman, Superman and Spider-Man. Things will be spelled out, because BvS doesn't have four origin movies explaining what the individual main characters have been up to, or how they started out. They're taking the top-down approach, instead of Marvel's bottom-up, which neatly sets things up so that each Avengers movie doesn't have to stop and explain stuff (except that last one, which we don't need to discuss in here).