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[unholyrevenger72]

What most rubs me the wrong way about Pa Kent (aside from Pa vs. Tornado) is how ambiguous all his fatherly advice is. He keeps saying, good or bad, he'll change the world, but that not only seems irresponsible as the caretaker of someone destined for such importance, it's poor parenting.

-Since when is it irresponsible to tell someone that their actions could have negative repercussions?

Pa Kent seems to display such abject fear of Clark, he's not even confident enough to tell him to be a good person.

he wants Clark to be happy even if it means denying his powers

Stand for what's right, use your abilities responsibly, overcome your fear of yourself before challenging the world to accept you - these are things typically taught to Clark Kent by his adopted parents. It's vaguely brushed on by Pa Kent when he commends Clark for not fighting back against that bully but he doesn't go nearly far enough. I have a hard time coming to a conclusion other than that Jonathan Kent wanted Clark to fear himself first and foremost, which is why Clark wanders aimlessly following his death and strictly saves people when absolutely necessary before vanishing.

Your conclusion is absolutely right, and that's why it's good because each version of Pa Kent is a product of their era of creation.

Donner Pa Kent is an authoritarian father figure molding a Blank slate of a character by telling him to do all that stuff you just said, why does he do it? Honor thy father and mother.

Snyder Pa Kent is critical thinking, free will, father figure teaching an already good natured Clark that publicly revealing himself will have its consequences. That death is a part of life and choosing to be human is perfectly acceptable. That doing the right thing isn't always the "right thing".

 

[jtb]

I'm not sure, so I know the public doesn't think so.

That could change obviously but as I'm aware if he is in it it'll be more of an extended cameo than a role, given the casting of Spider-Man and the filming of the film, and Black Panther being introduced in Civil War.

I'm sure BvS will do better business than it, regardless.

Why do you think so? Winter Soldier did better business than Man of Steel did... is Batman alone really enough to close an ~700m gap (between MoS and AoU)? Or do you think Civil War is going to do considerably worse than the Avengers films?

edit: WS did marginally worse than MoS domestically, better worldwide. (Still, both domestic and ww, I see Civil War doing better than BvS)

 

[guek]

I dont think Cap movie will come close to BvS. Batman and Superman in one movie is far too big of a draw while everyone has seen captain america and iron man in a single movie plenty of times. Star Wars could possibly overtake it though. I completely forgot Rogue one is coming in 2016.

Iron Man 3 has performed better than any Batman movie worldwide but both TDK and DKR have it beat domestic. While Batman and Superman are probably bigger individually than Iron Man or Captain America, the MCU is still box office gold. If BvS is received similarly to MoS, I can still see it doing very well but likely not the highest grossing film of the year.

 

[Penguin]

Why do you think so? Winter Soldier did better business than Man of Steel did... is Batman alone really enough to close an ~700m gap (between MoS and AoU)? Or do you think Civil War is going to do considerably worse than the Avengers films?

edit: WS did marginally worse than MoS domestically, better worldwide. (Still, both domestic and ww, I see Civil War doing better than BvS)

But it's not being advertised as an Avengers film, which I think may hurt it

Granted, this is a year or so off, weird to argue about it now.

Let's wait until Nov/Dec

Also, next year sees a new film in the Harry Potter franchise, I think another contender

 

[Alienous]

Why do you think so? Winter Soldier did better business than Man of Steel did... is Batman alone really enough to close an ~700m gap (between MoS and AoU)? Or do you think Civil War is going to do considerably worse than the Avengers films?

edit: WS did marginally worse than MoS domestically, better worldwide. (Still, both domestic and ww, I see Civil War doing better than BvS)

Batman v Superman

What the Man of Steel did is about as irrelevant as what Thor did compared to The Avengers.

Batman v Superman is an event akin to The Avengers. Heck, I don't even think Justice League has as much impact as Batman v Superman. The Batman and Superman symbols merged is iconic enough to put buts in seats.

I'm sure BvS will do better business than Civil War.

 

[guek]

Batman v Superman

What the Man of Steel did is about a irrelevant as what Thor did compared to The Avengers.

Batman v Superman is an event akin to The Avengers. Heck, I don't even think Justice League has as much impact as Batman v Superman. The Batman and Superman symbols merged is iconic enough to put buts in seats.

I'm sure BvS will do better than Civil War.

Not if it's received like MoS.

 

[Sheroking]

Not if it's received like MoS.

What? Very mixed, leaning on positive, until the internet echo chamber of hate has people convinced everyone hated it?

 

[Game4life]

Iron Man 3 has performed better than any Batman movie worldwide but both TDK and DKR have it beat domestic. While Batman and Superman are probably bigger individually than Iron Man or Captain America, the MCU is still box office gold. If BvS is received similarly to MoS, I can still see it doing very well but likely not the highest grossing film of the year.

Iron Man 3 did it with 3D. TDK and DKR performing the way they did was far more impressive. If its received similarly to MoS it may not become the highest grossing film of the year ( still a guaranteed billion in my opinion ). Unless it is terrible I dont think it will be very difficult for it to outgross Civil War. Star Wars spin off is kind of a mystery though. I really cannot predict how it will perform.

 

[a916]

I dunno, I didn't feel like the trailer told me that much.

I thought it was perfect and I plan on going on media blackout before the inevitable spoil-the-whole movie trailer comes out. It gives us the inciting incident, a bunch of really cool hype spots, and that's all I need.

 

[Messypandas]

Are we over-estimating how much the public cares about reviews? The Transformer movies still do obscene numbers....

 

[guek]

What? Very mixed, leaning on positive, until the internet echo chamber of hate has people convinced everyone hated it?

56% RT, 55 MC

It wasn't leaning on positive. Any other movie with that kind of reception and it'd be universally excepted to have reviewed poorly overall. Of course not everyone hated it but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[ReiGun]

I'll be a friend, and save Father_Brain the trouble....

The fact that you just copy/pasted one of his posts....lmao

I still stand by what I said. This movie was announced two years ago. After all the news and now two trailers, it's pretty clear what kind of movie it's going to be. If someone is still so down on it that they can't find anything worth liking or being excited about, maybe they should just accept it's not for them. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's not even about thinking it's some anti-DC bias or whatever. It's about recognizing that none of us is required to see all these movies and it's perfectly fine to disconnect and miss out on one if it doesn't tickle your fancy. That's exactly what I'm doing with Ant-Man because that shit looks like zzzzz.

I don't know. I guess I just don't understand continuing to following news about a film you clearly have no interest in or desire to see. Unless, like I said, you're a blogger and it's literally your job.

 

[Game4life]

Are we over-estimating how much the public cares about reviews? The Transformer movies still do obscene numbers....

This movie is a guarantee billion even if it hits 50% on the tomato meter. The reviews could maybe determine how much it goes beyond that. I think anything above 70% will ensure that this will be the biggest movie of the year. I dont see anything else touching it.

 

[TheKaeptain]

56% RT, 55 MC

It wasn't leaning on positive. Any other movie with that kind of reception and it'd be universally excepted to have reviewed poorly overall. Of course not everyone hated it but that's not what I'm talking about.

And it still made more money than most of Marvel's first phase.

 

[guek]

Are we over-estimating how much the public cares about reviews? The Transformer movies still do obscene numbers....

Honestly, it really depends on the movie. Review can tank a movie's momentum, it can catapult interest, or it can do fuck all. It's hard to say.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

If I compare the BO numbers of the first MCU movie Iron Man, which made $585,174,222 WW, MoS is pretty good with it's $668,045,518 WW.

 

[Sheroking]

56% RT, 55 MC

It wasn't leaning on positive. Any other movie with that kind of reception and it'd be universally excepted to have reviewed poorly overall. Of course not everyone hated it but that's not what I'm talking about.

RT User Score: 76% Liked it.
MC User Score: 7.6

The first few days (and early reactions) for that movie were positive. It took a few days for the internet to change the narrative with the iffiest set of criticisms I've ever seen for a movie.

 

[guek]

And it still made more money than most of Marvel's first phase.

Yup. As I said, Superman and Batman are bigger properties than Iron Man or Captain America.

Iron Man 2 and 3 still did better than MoS though (and most Batman films), and Winter Soldier got close-ish to MoS.

 

[jtb]

Are we over-estimating how much the public cares about reviews? The Transformer movies still do obscene numbers....

The easiest way to "prove" that audience reaction to Man of Steel was tepid—not great, not terrible—was the obscene drop it had in its second weekend. Not even Transformers movies have drops that big. Not even Spiderman 3, a movie that actually was universally reviled by the internet the moment it was released, had a drop that big. Clearly, it wasn't universally beloved. If reaction was terrible, nobody would have seen it in the first place. If reaction was better, it would have had some semblance of legs. Man of Steel lies somewhere in the large swath of general apathy between those extremes.

 

[Alienous]

Not if it's received like MoS.

I don't think it would even hurt the box office.

Batman v Superman.

 

[guek]

RT User Score: 76% Liked it.
MC User Score: 7.6

The first few days (and early reactions) for that movie were positive. It took a few days for the internet to change the narrative with the iffiest set of criticisms I've ever seen for a movie.

Thor The Dark World has a RT user score of 78%, 7.4 MC user score and I'd say its audience reception was pretty tepid. If you want to continue believing MoS had a generally positive reception before the internet sabotaged its image, be my guest.

 

[Penguin]

The easiest way to "prove" that audience reaction to Man of Steel was tepid—not great, not terrible—was the obscene drop it had in its second weekend. Not even Transformers movies have drops that big. Not even Spiderman 3, a movie that actually was universally reviled by the internet the moment it was released, had a drop that big. Clearly, it wasn't universally beloved. If reaction was terrible, nobody would have seen it in the first place. If reaction was better, it would have had some semblance of legs. Man of Steel lies somewhere in the large swath of general apathy between those extremes.

not gonna say it wasn't a huge drop, but you're making it sound like this huge one compared to some of the competition.

It dropped around 64%

Spider-man was 61%, Amazing Spider-man was like 62, most Marvel films are between like 58-62 as well.

I'd also say, it had very good home release sales. So people were interested in checking it out later on

 

[Discotheque]

props to zack snyder for getting a batman and alfred combo i'm really vibing with (especially following up IMO a great one with Bale/Caine) but his vision of superman was dull as bricks.

he has all the right ideas visually and thematically (that senate hearing shot at the opening of this trailer was so good) but if his idea of a compelling superman is a guy who can punch buildings to rubble and make craters everytime he lands then FOH. i really really hope we don't get a rehash of the man of steel battles again in this one. he can be more inventive.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

props to zack snyder for getting a batman and alfred combo i'm really vibing with (especially following up IMO a great one with Bale/Caine) but his vision of superman was dull as bricks.

he has all the right ideas visually and thematically (that senate hearing shot at the opening of this trailer was so good) but if his idea of a compelling superman is a guy who can punch buildings to rubble and make craters everytime he lands then FOH. i really really hope we don't get a rehash of the man of steel battles again in this one. he can be more inventive.

I don't know how you would someone like, rumored

Spoiler

Doomsday

, without making any damage to the environment.

 

[DAVIDHUXLEY]

Jesse Eisenberg Compares Comic-Con To Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/jesse-eisenberg-comiccon-genocide_n_7794610.html
Eisenberg comparing SDCC to genocide makes him a bit of a twit in my book.

 

[Discotheque]

I don't know how you would someone like, rumored

Spoiler

Doomsday

, without making any damage to the environment.

it's not even about the damage to the environment really, it's just making it a super-powered slugfest gets dull quickly.

i'm hoping the inclusion of batman will change things up a bit. but yeah that rumor makes me mehh on this movie kinda, like i'm looking forward to the first two acts and expecting a mediocre finale. looking forward to suicide squad a lot more.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Jesse Eisenberg Compares Comic-Con To Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/jesse-eisenberg-comiccon-genocide_n_7794610.html
Eisenberg comparing SDCC to genocide makes him a bit of a twit in my book.

I think he's joking here.

 

[Dysun]

Thor The Dark World has a RT user score of 78%, 7.4 MC user score and I'd say it's audience reception was pretty tepid. If you want to continue believing MoS had a generally positive reception before the internet sabotaged its image, be my guest.

The amount of hoops that people jump through to convince others that everyone hated Man of Steel is ridiculous

 

[kswiston]

You can say what you want about their quality, but Snyder movies almost always have great trailers. BvS will easily shatter Hunger Games' March opening record, if not the Weekend record.

 

[ezekial45]

Jesse Eisenberg Compares Comic-Con To Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/jesse-eisenberg-comiccon-genocide_n_7794610.html
Eisenberg comparing SDCC to genocide makes him a bit of a twit in my book.

The guy is really awkward, I don't think he meant anything malicious by it.

 

[guek]

The amount of hoops that people jump through to convince others that everyone hated Man of Steel is ridiculous

I never said everyone hated Man of Steel.

 

[Messypandas]

The amount of hoops that people jump through to convince others that everyone hated Man of Steel is ridiculous

I don't mind it about MOS as much, but for Dark Knight Rises its just bizarre.

 

[- J - D -]

Jesse Eisenberg Compares Comic-Con To Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/jesse-eisenberg-comiccon-genocide_n_7794610.html
Eisenberg comparing SDCC to genocide makes him a bit of a twit in my book.

To be fair, it IS like genocide on your ear drums and nasal cavities.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Jesse Eisenberg Compares Comic-Con To Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/jesse-eisenberg-comiccon-genocide_n_7794610.html
Eisenberg comparing SDCC to genocide makes him a bit of a twit in my book.

Affleck hides his ancestry
Eisenberg thinks crowds are like genocide
Your Fave is Problematic gets truer everyday

Link's not working for me by the way lol

 

[Game4life]

it's not even about the damage to the environment really, it's just making it a super-powered slugfest gets dull quickly.

i'm hoping the inclusion of batman will change things up a bit. but yeah that rumor makes me mehh on this movie kinda, like i'm looking forward to the first two acts and expecting a mediocre finale. looking forward to suicide squad a lot more.

I dont know how any one can make a superman movie that has combat without severe destruction.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Think I am going to rewatch TDK tonight.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

RT User Score: 76% Liked it.
MC User Score: 7.6

The first few days (and early reactions) for that movie were positive. It took a few days for the internet to change the narrative with the iffiest set of criticisms I've ever seen for a movie.

You really believe this nonsense about the internet sabotage?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The guy is really awkward

He's not really awkward, he's just a really dry smartass.

 

[jtb]

not gonna say it wasn't a huge drop, but you're making it sound like this huge one compared to some of the competition.

It dropped around 64%

Spider-man was 61%, Amazing Spider-man was like 62, most Marvel films are between like 58-62 as well.

I'd also say, it had very good home release sales. So people were interested in checking it out later on

Well, as someone who doesn't like those Webb films and considering those ASM films performed so well.... they got the franchise rebooted... again... I'm not sure they're helping Man of Steel's case There are plenty of superhero films that have good legs, there are plenty that have bad legs; which makes sense given there's an established fanbase that will come out to see these movies and is why I think legs are an interesting indicator of reaction of whether or not people come back and see the movie again, whether they tell their friends to see it, etc. Plus, you don't have to get bogged down in the horrors of IMDB ratings, RT ratings, etc.

We will see with BvS. It could very well be that the premise alone is enough to carry it to the box office promised land.

 

[ReiGun]

You really believe this nonsense about the internet sabotage?

Yeah the internet doesn't really hold that much power. I don't think general audiences really cared all that much about fan shit slinging over fake death tolls to let it influence their decision to see the film.

 

[Discotheque]

I dont know how any one can make a superman movie that has combat without severe destruction.

i dunno, maybe vary his moves a little? make him use all his powers in conjunction effectively, that would be cool.

hell i don't even think he needs to have a huge battle in his movies to make them interesting, but then we'll get nerds like kevin smith crying about "superman not throwing a punch" and i don't think fans will be receptive to it either. i think it would be cool if in the justice league they used superman to prevent a disaster only he can while the rest of the league engages in combat.

tanks are always the least interesting fighters in movies like this.

 

[Game4life]

i dunno, maybe vary his moves a little? make him use all his powers in conjunction effectively, that would be cool.

hell i don't even think he needs to have a huge battle in his movies to make them interesting, but then we'll get nerds like kevin smith crying about "superman not throwing a punch" and i don't think fans will be receptive to it either. i think it would be cool if in the justice league they used superman to prevent a disaster only he can while the rest of the league engages in combat.

Superman is powerful and is therefore always confronted with super powerful enemies in battle to make it interesting. Even using all his powers in conjunction would still result in a lot of destruction. Superman is not the super hero to be involved in intimate fight scenes during battle.

The most small scale fight you are going to see from Superman is when he fights the Batman after being weakened by Kryptonite.

 

[Penguin]

Well, as someone who doesn't like those Webb films and considering those ASM films performed so well.... they got the franchise rebooted... again... I'm not sure they're helping Man of Steel's case There are plenty of superhero films that have good legs, there are plenty that have bad legs; which makes sense given there's an established fanbase that will come out to see these movies and is why I think legs are an interesting indicator of reaction of whether or not people come back and see the movie again, whether they tell their friends to see it, etc. Plus, you don't have to get bogged down in the horrors of IMDB ratings, RT ratings, etc.

We will see with BvS. It could very well be that the premise alone is enough to carry it to the box office promised land.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but making MoS out to be this HUGE outlier. It's higher than most (not the highest comic book movie drop), but it's within a fairly close or similar % to most average drops for these type of films.

And I do agree, I think it's an indicator. Though it had more normalized drops around 50% after the 2nd weekend.

I would also say look at the blu-ray sales,only original Avengers, Guardians and TDKR have sold better than Man of Steel.

Will need to look into DVD sales and the likes to get a fuller picture.

Speaking of, jeebsus some people REALLY don't wanna let go of their disdain for the movie. From all-time best-selling blu-ray article, not gonna link to because they don't need the hits...

With the less objective home viewing audience (it’s well documented a film needn’t be amazing to be a DVD hit), clearly Man Of Steel found an audience more fitting with expectations.

 

[jtb]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but making MoS out to be this HUGE outlier. It's higher than most (not the highest comic book movie drop), but it's within a fairly close or similar % to most average drops for these type of films.

And I do agree, I think it's an indicator. Though it had more normalized drops around 50% after the 2nd weekend.

I would also say look at the blu-ray sales,only original Avengers, Guardians and TDKR have sold better than Man of Steel.

Will need to look into DVD sales and the likes to get a fuller picture.

I guess my point isn't that it's an outlier, but that, even when compared against films that are front loaded and had poor legs, it still has bad legs. Like I said, initial reaction wasn't terrible, but it certainly wasn't loved either... it was tepid. I didn't know that about the home video sales, that's interesting and definitely is encouraging for this incarnation of Superman.

(Also, worth noting that the drop is higher than 65%... closer to 68% I think, because all the would-be midnight showings were burned off on Thursday evening, which isn't included in the weekend to weekend drop. So that slightly changes the question of legs for movies before and after TDKR. Regardless, poor legs, just a question of degree.)

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

it's not even about the damage to the environment really, it's just making it a super-powered slugfest gets dull quickly.

i'm hoping the inclusion of batman will change things up a bit. but yeah that rumor makes me mehh on this movie kinda, like i'm looking forward to the first two acts and expecting a mediocre finale. looking forward to suicide squad a lot more.

Deadshot's lines of we're a suicide squad and we're going to save the world sounded like totally cheese writing, so I'm not expecting too much from that movie.

i dunno, maybe vary his moves a little? make him use all his powers in conjunction effectively, that would be cool.

hell i don't even think he needs to have a huge battle in his movies to make them interesting, but then we'll get nerds like kevin smith crying about "superman not throwing a punch" and i don't think fans will be receptive to it either. i think it would be cool if in the justice league they used superman to prevent a disaster only he can while the rest of the league engages in combat.

tanks are always the least interesting fighters in movies like this.

This isn't a valid criticism IMO. He's an alien that can destroy a planet, so there should be a ton of destruction if he fights someone his equal. However, it would be nice to have some suspense inbetween so the audience can breathe and suck in everything that's happening rather than 30 nonstop minutes of fighting.

 

[Discotheque]

that line is just a hollywood thing. it's done in almost everything, did you have a problem with it in guardians of the galaxy? that felt even more forced because i had no idea why they even called themselves that lol. this one has more context to it at least.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Deadshot's lines of we're a suicide squad and we're going to save the world sounded like totally cheese writing, so I'm not expecting too much from that movie.

I sincerely doubt those two lines are cut together like that in the actual movie.

 

[BadAss2961]

Deadshot's lines of we're a suicide squad and we're going to save the world sounded like totally cheese writing, so I'm not expecting too much from that movie.

I don't think so. Someone has to coin the Suicide Squad nickname in the movie. Whatever Deadshot is looking at, or whatever just happened is what makes him say that.

This is also a group that's forced to do all their missions. "Let's go save the world" is totally gonna be a sarcastic line.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I sincerely doubt those two lines are cut together like that in the actual movie.

It works even if the lines are together. Deadshot's an idiot who does one thing well: shoot people. Other than that, he is the definition of a moron. He would absolutely say those lines irony free.

 

[3N16MA]

You can say what you want about their quality, but Snyder movies almost always have great trailers. BvS will easily shatter Hunger Games' March opening record, if not the Weekend record.

I have it over Hunger Games for sure and thought it would be a close one with Civil War in terms of opening weekends. However I'm leaning towards BvS based on that trailer and reaction.

Still really early.