Black Lives Matter shuts down a Bernie Sanders rally

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Zulithe said:
If they'd target Trump I think we could all be together on this. But they choose a candidate operating on a shoestring budget who's not screening for BLM protesters at the door the way republicans probably are. The Right is laughing their assess off.
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Why would BLM waste time by targeting any Republican candidate? Republicans (and the people likely to vote for them) have already made it clear that they don't give a shit about racial issues. The one whole question devoted to it at the Republican Debate should have told ya that.

Targetting Republicans would be like yelling at a brick wall.
 
akira28 said:
why is Bernie not a good target? He's in the running, he's in the fight, he gets press, he should be involved in the subject matter already anyway. Seems like he's a good target. He should be welcoming them up with open arms and scheduling a special open townhall series just for them. Instead he's awkward old man and should he really even be up there Bernie instead of saavy politician on top of things Bernie.
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If you want effective protesting you have to be pragmatic. Protesting Bernie is doing nothing to gain support for their movement from liberals (as seen by the obvious backlash).

He should be welcoming them but they shouldn't be protesting him. It's inefficient.

royalan said:
Why would BLM waste time by targeting any Republican candidate? Republicans (and the people likely to vote for them) have already made it clear that they don't give a shit about racial issues. The one whole question devoted to it at the Republican Debate should have told ya that.

Targetting Republicans would be like yelling at a brick wall.
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Is it not wasteful to target a candidate who supports you (in ways where he's helped create, promote, and vote for bills that benefited you)? What do you gain from protesting Bernie? What tangible or political benefit do you gain from protesting a person from Vermont who had zero chance of winning? This is the thing that's hard for me to grasp because I can't think of anything you gain from doing this.
 
Why don't Americans invoke JFK like they do MLK? Like I'm shocked he isn't trotted out every time there's a mass shooting or something
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
Is there like, a committee who decided this? Honestly, I'd never leave it up to Sanders' fanbase whether criticisms against him are okay.
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It's less about the acceptability of their criticisms and more about the visibility of their efforts, in my opinion.

It's getting to the point where the most prominent visual of the Sanders campaign is of him being shouted down by black protesters. A lot of posters seem to think that this will reflect poorly on black protesters, but I think it's more like to reflect on Sanders; at this point, he has received the most visible and unrelenting opposition by black interests of any candidate in either major party in this campaign.

The degree of resistance that he receives is, it seems to me, pretty wildly disproportionate to the degree of racism inherent in his policies, as opposed to those of someone like Rand Paul or Ted Cruz, or even one of the other Democratic candidates, both of whom have more pronounced links, however tenuous or ancient, to the "tough on crime" movement of the '80s-00s than does Sanders.

The real threat here is that the most prominent black political force of our time creates a perception of racism around the policies of the most liberal credible candidate in modern US history, and, for whatever reason, completely ignores every other candidate, at least in the sense of the very high profile attention that they've given to Sanders.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
If you want effective protesting you have to be pragmatic. Protesting Bernie is doing nothing to gain support for their movement from liberals (as seen by the obvious backlash).

He should be welcoming them but they shouldn't be protesting him. It's inefficient.
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Do they want "support" from "liberals"(oh that dreaded backlash) or do they want some form of response or action from Bernie? This isn't about you, liberal voters. This is about corralling politicians and speaking truth to power.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
The protesters want to see him go ham on combating the issues of black people.



My point is that there are various reasons to protest someone - to get them to change their mind, to make that person's fanbase think more about their choice in President, to expose something about the President, etc. The protests are most likely aiming for the first two.
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Ok, so what substantial policy should Bernie change? What should the fan base think about Bernie? That he should spend more of his nonexistent money do security?

Maybe Bernie should get some prison lobby money so he can hire security.
 
gutter_trash said:
the guy was born in New York City and graduated in Chicago. Two multicultural cities.

Saying that he doesn't have experience with blacks because Vermont has no blacks is ridiculous considering his city of birth and city of graduation
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You're being incredibly obtuse.

I'm not saying he has no experience with black people. I'm saying he has no experience campaigning for black support in an election.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I don't claim to know the mindsets of anyone who has protested Sanders in person, but perhaps they don't consider that sufficient? Perhaps they want to see more action from him?
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The problem is - his entire senate career has a history of him sponsoring bills supporting black issues, police brutality issues, and socio-economic issues. If you have made your entire career doing that, at what point do you have to step back and really start to wonder how much more is needed to show that Sanders is actually one of the few senators who has consistently voted in favor of the issues you are protesting?
 
Ke0 said:
Why don't Americans invoke JFK like they do MLK? Like I'm shocked he isn't trotted out every time there's a mass shooting or something
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Well technically he wasnt involved in a mass shooting
dac15_cool.gif
 
Kusagari said:
Really starting to wonder how Hillary seems to avoid this ever happening to her.
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Hillary has a long and close history with African Americans, even though her policies are a lot worse than Sanders'.

I wonder how much these protesters know about Sanders' policies. I'm really perplexed. And I also wonder if his race or even religion contribute to this at all.
 
werks said:
Ok, so what substantial policy should Bernie change? What should the fan base think about Bernie? That he should spend more of his nonexistent money do security?

Maybe Bernie should get some prison lobby money so he can hire security.
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I don't know why you're getting so defensive right now. Relax bb. This discussion can't happen, it literally can't, if that kind of tone and attitude keeps getting thrown out. Especially when you're trying to invoke the Hillary message to

A. Someone who hasn't brought up Hillary (criticizing one candidate isn't implicit support of the other), and
B. Someone who is planning to vote for Bernie

RyanDG said:
The problem is - his entire senate career has a history of him sponsoring bills supporting black issues, police brutality issues, and socio-economic issues. If you have made your entire career doing that, at what point do you have to step back and really start to wonder how much more is needed to show that Sanders is actually one of the few senators who has consistently voted in favor of the issues you are protesting?
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There has been a lot of talk on how direct these kinds of things have been, such as the socio-economic issues focusing more on "all boats rise in a storm" rather than focusing on poor minorities. That's one angle I can see the BLM movement coming from.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I don't claim to know the mindsets of anyone who has protested Sanders in person, but perhaps they don't consider that sufficient? Perhaps they want to see more action from him?
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I mean clearly you have some kind of an idea of the mindset as you have listed reasons as to why the are protesting just a few posts up. And even made quesstimations on which ones exactly.

The only problem here is no one is doing their research on Bernie and perhaps Bernie isn't doing a good enough job to reaching out to BLM.

Other than that, to say Bernie has not done anything for minorities is rather disingenuous.

BLM is important and I hope they keep doing what they are doing but to come into a thread and say he hasn't done anything and then when someone shows you various article stating that he has... Is leaning on the side of cognitive dissonance.
 
akira28 said:
Do they want "support" from "liberals"(oh that dreaded backlash) or do they want some form of response or action from Bernie?
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Well, if they want to be effective then they do want support from these "liberals".

Just accept that these protests rub people the wrong way. This does not mean they don't care about your movement. They're calling the protest dumb and wanting you to protest better. This doesn't mean they won't support future stuff it just means they won't support this protest and that causes damage to your image. Be pragmatic.

What response do they want? How will Bernie's response benefit them? Oh, no, the man who's actively supported us through his political career is continuing it? I honestly don't get what BLM hopes to gain from doing this. Bernie will reiterate his stance of racism, police brutality, privilege? It is really confusing.
 
akira28 said:
Do they want "support" from "liberals"(oh that dreaded backlash) or do they want some form of response or action from Bernie? This isn't about you, liberal voters. This is about corralling politicians and speaking truth to power.
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Considering Black Lives Matter's Seattle chapter just tweeted they needed the former as well as an apology, this question has already been answered for you.
 
UltimaPooh said:
I mean clearly you have some kind of an idea of the mindset as you have listed reasons as to why the are protesting just a few posts up. And even made quesstimations on which ones exactly.

The only problem here is no one is doing their research on Bernie and perhaps Bernie isn't doing a good enough job to reaching out to BLM.

Other than that, to say Bernie has not done anything for minorities is rather disingenuous.

BLM is important and I hope they keep doing what they are doing but to come into a thread and say he hasn't done anything and then when someone shows you various article stating that he has... Is leaning on the side of cognitive dissonance.
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I'd love to see this post where I claim that Sanders hasn't done anything. I specifically said that people may not be satisfied with his performance.

Seriously, discussions like these completely collapse when they veer into the territory of misrepresenting statements.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Well, if they want to be effective then they do want support from these "liberals".

Just accept that these protests rub people the wrong way. This does not mean they don't care about your movement. They're calling the protest dumb and wanting you to protest better. This doesn't mean they won't support future stuff it just means they won't support this protest and that causes damage to your image. Be pragmatic.

What response do they want? How will Bernie's response benefit them? Oh, no, the man who's actively supported us through his political career is continuing it? I honestly don't get what BLM hopes to gain from doing this. Bernie will reiterate his stance of racism, police brutality, privileged? It is really confusing.
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"we're confused and don't know what you want?" that's a better response than ,"why are they attacking our guy? why are they attacking us?! they will never succeed! they will not get away with this." for starters.
 
gutter_trash said:
He is an ubber-lefty liberal born in New York City for crying out loud, what more "experience" do you need?
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Who has been living in Vermont since the 60s and whose entire electoral career has been in Vermont.

You really don't see any distinction whatsoever between having personal life experience with a group of people and having to campaign to get said group's support in an election? It's profoundly different. Within the context of an election Bernie has never had to reach out to black people. It's really not hard to understand why he'd be struggling, and I'm not even blaming him for struggling. It's understandable.
 
akira28 said:
"we're confused and don't know what you want?" that's a better response than ,"why are they attacking our guy? why are they attacking us?! they will never succeed! they will not get away with this." for starters.
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It's pretty clear what they want. What's not obvious is the choice to not protest the person set to be president of the US or the other party that has almost a 50 percent chance of doing the same.
 
akira28 said:
"we're confused and don't know what you want?" that's a better response than ,"why are they attacking our guy? why are they attacking us?! they will never succeed! they will not get away with this." for starters.
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People have asked them what they want. We understand their response. We still find their protest dumb. Does this mean we don't support BLM? No. It means we find their protest dumb. We can ask the same thing of BLM, "What do you hope to get from this that you don't already get from Bernie?" The answer? Nothing. Can you answer that?

What do you think they will gain if Bernie sits down, has a chat, and makes them center stage? What will you actually get from Bernie that Bernie hasn't already given? What benefit will they receive if Bernie does all this? It's inefficient protesting.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Well, if they want to be effective then they do want support from these "liberals".

Just accept that these protests rub people the wrong way. This does not mean they don't care about your movement. They're calling the protest dumb and wanting you to protest better. This doesn't mean they won't support future stuff it just means they won't support this protest and that causes damage to your image. Be pragmatic.

What response do they want? How will Bernie's response benefit them? Oh, no, the man who's actively supported us through his political career is continuing it? I honestly don't get what BLM hopes to gain from doing this. Bernie will reiterate his stance of racism, police brutality, privilege? It is really confusing.
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I think the jury is out on the protests rubbing people the wrong way.

I'm seeing just as much support for them as I am opposition.
 
BertramCooper said:
Who has been living in Vermont since the 60s and whose entire electoral career has been in Vermont.

You really don't see any distinction whatsoever between having personal life experience with a group of people and having to campaign to get said group's support in an election? It's profoundly different. Within the context of an election Bernie has never had to reach out to black people. It's really not hard to understand why he'd be struggling.
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Vermont is a nice place to live and visit, they have awesome ice cream.

if you had the choice to live in Vermont or some rust belt Midwest state, that is no choice at all. Vermont wins
 
FiggyCal said:
It's pretty clear what they want. What's not obvious is the choice to not protest the person set to be president of the US or the other party that has almost a 50 percent chance of doing the same.
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Exactly. Bernie Sanders is not going to be president. It's such an odd target.
 
FiggyCal said:
It's pretty clear what they want. What's not obvious is the choice to not protest the person set to be president of the US or the other party that has almost a 50 percent chance of doing the same.
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Seriously. And even as people write that strategy off as "ineffective" it would get a lot of public support across the Left to see black protestors causing a ruckus at bastions of white power. No, it wouldn't convince the Republicans of a damn thing, but it would get the evil white liberal establishment something to get behind - there's more than just the Presidency at stake this election cycle, and arguably, it's more important to get people registered and involved the local politics just as well as the national level. The Republican establishment depends so heavily on going unchallenged by a self-defeating Left it's not even funny.

Black Lives Matter Seattle's Facebook page is them swearing left and right they had nothing to do with today's protest as well.
 
FiggyCal said:
It's pretty clear what they want. What's not obvious is the choice to not protest the person set to be president of the US or the other party that has almost a 50 percent chance of doing the same.
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what do they want?

Subpar Spatula said:
People have asked them what they want. We understand their response. We still find their protest dumb. Does this mean we don't support BLM? No. It means we find their protest dumb. We can ask the same thing of BLM, "What do you hope to get from this that you don't already get from Bernie?" The answer? Nothing. Can you answer that?

What do you think they will gain if Bernie sits down, has a chat, and makes them center stage? What will you actually get from Bernie that Bernie hasn't already given? What benefit will they receive if Bernie does all this? It's inefficient protesting.
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that shows you don't get it.
 
He and his team need to come up with a better strategy than just leaving the event then putting out a statement about how much he cares shortly afterwards. They can't try that for the third time.
 
One issue I take is seeing "why not protest Hillary" and then later "Hillary is just lying to get the black vote". Shouldn't the second thing be the answer to the first? Since she's just trying to say what she thinks they want to hear?
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
The protesters want to see him go ham on combating the issues of black people.



My point is that there are various reasons to protest someone - to get them to change their mind, to make that person's fanbase think more about their choice in President, to expose something about the President, etc. The protests are most likely aiming for the first two.
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The protests seem to be about silencing. Maybe that's not the intention, but that's how it appears.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I'd love to see this post where I claim that Sanders hasn't done anything. I specifically said that people may not be satisfied with his performance.
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From the previous BLM thread.

A Link to the Snitch said:
It's amazing how similar to Sanders his supporters are: instead of listening, they ignore.
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Seriously, discussions like these completely collapse when they veer into the territory of misrepresenting statements.
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I didn't just mean you, you... but the general mindset that he hasn't done anything.
 
royalan said:
Why would BLM waste time by targeting any Republican candidate? Republicans (and the people likely to vote for them) have already made it clear that they don't give a shit about racial issues. The one whole question devoted to it at the Republican Debate should have told ya that.

Targetting Republicans would be like yelling at a brick wall.
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That makes sense. But are they also going after Hillary? She's the big favourite for the presidency, Bernie's chances are rather slim. It seems so weird to protest the guy on the sideline and not the big one in the middle.
 
Seems like many here are mixing up Drug Policy with Prison Policy.
 
royalan said:
Why would BLM waste time by targeting any Republican candidate? Republicans (and the people likely to vote for them) have already made it clear that they don't give a shit about racial issues. The one whole question devoted to it at the Republican Debate should have told ya that.

Targetting Republicans would be like yelling at a brick wall.
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Huh, so there aren't any socially liberal, fiscal conservatives? The are all racist bible beaters?
 
Subpar Spatula said:
What don't I get? Please articulate instead of vague responses and bolding my statements. Enlighten me. Help me understand. Help me understand this isn't inefficient.
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i'm going to go to the chinese food place before they close because I'll be damned if another GAF thread causes me to go hungry. But I will throw this out there. you claim to "get it", and to understand what the BLM protesters and those who want more from Sanders really want. so when you ask the question, hypothetically, the answer comes from you, and that answer? "Nothing"? really? nothing can come from this and they expect nothing, so that's why they're protesting, because you totally get it?
 
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