Captain Europe
Member
Cos it's a Mario level editor that actually made the gamepad useful.
Super Mario Maker: Not all tools available from the start, unlock over 9 days
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
Cos it's a Mario level editor that actually made the gamepad useful.
UncleSporky
Member
Again, dependent upon whether the clock change trick works.
Um...
Slopes would be cool since they make levels in SMB3->NSMBU designs feel more natural but then again most of the shit you see in NSMBW/U won't ever be able to be replicated in this anyway.
My copy should arrive on October 3rd, cost me less than 60bucks with the amiibo.
NoE and Amazon makes NoA look so bad it's not even funny.
e: sold by : Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
Yep I should be ok.
My copy should arrive on October 3rd, cost me less than 60bucks with the amiibo.
NoE and Amazon makes NoA look so bad it's not even funny.
e: sold by : Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
Yep I should be ok.
I can't believe anyone actually read that.
Captain Europe
Member
Metroid doesn't even come close to Mario's popularity, I'm sure you know that.
First I've heard of this, and this is the dumbest thing I think I've heard of video game related this year.
It's just the most obtuse 'solution' to a 'problem' you can possibly present.
How about instead you spend some development time and money and make some really nice, fun to watch, high production quality tutorials if you're so concerned with gating people by hundreds of real life hours. Hey, maybe even make them interactive with examples so the player can get a hold of the tools themselves while they're at it? But that would take effort...
People are just going to game the clock and scum the system while having the wii disconnected from the internet anyways.
It's just the most obtuse 'solution' to a 'problem' you can possibly present.
How about instead you spend some development time and money and make some really nice, fun to watch, high production quality tutorials if you're so concerned with gating people by hundreds of real life hours. Hey, maybe even make them interactive with examples so the player can get a hold of the tools themselves while they're at it? But that would take effort...
People are just going to game the clock and scum the system while having the wii disconnected from the internet anyways.
Except that goes against what they want the game to be. They literally want people to experiment. Tutorials are the total opposite of that. This isn't about getting people to learn how to use the tools (there will be a built in manual for that) but a way to give them time to play with the tools and discover what they can do with them.
Shia_Labeouf
Banned
If Microsoft had done this, NeoGAF would be on fire right now.
Captain_Wreckus
Member
meanwhile, a new IGN video is up.
http://ca.ign.com/videos/2015/08/14/super-mario-maker-ign-challenge-koopa-clown-car-antics
http://ca.ign.com/videos/2015/08/14/super-mario-maker-ign-challenge-koopa-clown-car-antics
superNESjoe
Member
What's stopping me from playing this offline on launch day, and manually changing my clock to unlock everything?
Agent Unknown
Member
It's pretty hard for any player of any skill set to properly "discover" what the tools can do when on the first day they can't even recreate 1-1 from SMB if they wanted.
Shia_Labeouf
Banned
Your code of honor, or something.
UncleSporky
Member
"A change to the system time has been detected. New level elements will now unlock 24 hours from now!"
superNESjoe
Member
Yeah whelp.
I had already made plans with a bunch of my friends to play this the afternoon it comes out. I'll set aside a few hours and unlock everything with clock manipulation, it's gonna get old fast on day one if I don't.
PooBone
Member
9 days regardless of when you buy it. 5 minutes per day minimum.
EDIT: I don't think this is a "huge deal". I'm not outraged or freaking out. I'm still getting the game. Thinking something is stupid does not equal freaking out.
This is regardless of when you buy the game.
I understand the timed release Splatoon content, but this is just asinine.
What is the upside?
This is dumb. Makes me less likely to rent. Probably not gonna purchase it, but not bc of this.
I wonder sometimes...
The real issue is that it breaks conventions with pretty every videogame released, outside of some F2P money sinks, which this game isn't either.
They're trying to do something "creative" and friendly, and instead making something more restrictive and confusing.
I'm not saying making us wait is a good idea, just why asking for tutorials is rather pointless.
Besides, creating 1-1 is the complete opposite of imaginative creativity. I wouldn't be surprised they purposefully made it so you couldn't do that out of the box to force users to do something else.
19 pages about this isn't NeoGAF being on fire? We've even waited long enough for the fire flower as well.
Just throwing me two cents in here, really excited for the game.
As someone who has a full time job and other responsibilities outside of this game, I doubt I'd be able to use EVERYTHING the game has to offer in fewer than 9 days.
I'm content with the structure they setup.
As someone who has a full time job and other responsibilities outside of this game, I doubt I'd be able to use EVERYTHING the game has to offer in fewer than 9 days.
I'm content with the structure they setup.
I think that's only part of it now, as far as slopes go. I think the main reason for their exclusion is the fact that they only really fit in half of the themes (plains, underground, and underwater); and while ghost houses have technically had staircases and a couple of castles or forts in SMW had escalators, staircases would only work with one specific angle of slope (45 degrees). Most likely they just didn't want to make assets that wouldn't fit every theme.
1 2D Mario.
1 3D Mario.
1 2D Mario level editor.
What's the problem? They're all different games.
If they want to give people time to discover what they can do with the tools then making them wait 9 days to have time with all of them is counter-intuitive. These aren't super complex tools that take hours of intense thought to understand. It takes 7 days for the arrow sign to unlock. Are arrows confusing to people?
I think the more likely reason is that they want to force people to upload a lot of rather simple levels to populate 100 Mario Challenge with levels that aren't super difficult.
superNESjoe
Member
Just like the data had to be somewhere that told them the Nintendo digital purchase system was the "best" course of action.
This is a dumb decision, straight up. There's no reason these elements couldn't be unlocked through gameplay. The time limit is so arbitrary because someone could do the 5 minute minimum and end up not really "mastering" or learning anything. It's such a half-baked poorly thought out idea.
Shia_Labeouf
Banned
I've seen cuckolding threads go longer than 19 pages.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The point is you don't have everything to make a level as simple as 1-1, not that people want to recreate 1-1 tile for tile.
Agent Unknown
Member
Obviously. I was just using 1-1 as an example of his rediculously limited the tool set is the first day. No fire flower or star on day one is just overkill. The novelty of being able to create nothing but vanilla stages with just mushroom at launch is going to wear off really quick and in reality will make a lot of people put the game down much of the first day and simply wait until new tools are available which destroys Nintendo's misguided intent right off the bat.
Dreamwriter
Member
Something to note - one of the guys at IGN just played with Mario Maker for the first time ever, having never designed any level in any game, and he says he got used to how the tools worked after 20 minutes. He said that once he figured out the basics for how the tools worked, they were all easy to use, and he proceeded to make a decent level with some tricky bits in it, using parts from all 9 days.
Alas, Nintendo has taken this experience away from most of us.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096467
Alas, Nintendo has taken this experience away from most of us.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096467
That's not really horrible at all. There are core principles involved in making good LEGO models that involve a lot of boring bricks that don't shoot spring-loaded anything.
I think a lot of people who are complaining about this really don't understand just how overwhelming having too many options can be to some people. For many people, that's not an issue. That's great. But Nintendo doesn't want to overwhelm those who may not be able to handle having everything thrown at them at once. I'm one of those people. If a game (or anything, really) provides me with too many options at once, I'm very likely to become turned off by it, and I'm definitely not alone. I'm sure Nintendo has found similar results from test audiences, which is why they're opening up content day by day like this.
Besides that, having content unlocked over time like this is one of the few ways to give this game a sense of progression. Actually, outside of this and I guess collecting costumes via 100 Mario Challenge (assuming you don't have the amiibo), there really is no sense of progression. It's entirely open ended. Having SOME kind of sense of progression in the game is a good thing, because some people need that sense of progression for an experience to be worthwhile. It also prevents people from making the craziest levels they can imagine with every tool available from the start and getting burnt out as a result on the first day or so of playing the game, and it gives people incentive to continue playing each day.
There are very good reasons for content being unlocked gradually over time like this (and it's definitely not the first time Nintendo's done it, either, and I'm not just talking about Splatoon—the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games have handled unlocking creation tools like this in a similar way, too, for example). I know there are plenty of people who've been thinking up some awesome ideas for level designs and just want to be able to create those ideas as soon as possible, but for every person like that I'm sure there are many more people who have no idea of what they want to create, and limiting tools at the beginning while gradually opening up more over time is a great way to ensure that people don't just get overwhelmed and turned off to the game initially.
Really, this is entirely a non-issue. If you really want to have everything opened up to you as soon as possible, guess what? There's absolutely nothing stopping you from cheating the system and changing your Wii U's internal clock ahead to unlock more content instantly. Sure, you'll still have to spend five minutes with the game per "day," but it'll take much longer than five minutes to make a decent Mario level, anyway. If you wanted to, you could start your first five minutes making the base of your level, and then save and gradually add more to your level during the next "days" as more tools become available to you. Or, you know, you could just work with what the game gives you and try out new things as days go by in real time. Do you REALLY have to make your "perfect" level the moment you turn the game on? Is this not a game that you'll be wanting to play for quite awhile? 9 days really isn't that much time at all...
It's very disappointing that this subject has pretty much completely overshadowed the rest of the fantastic overview video.
Besides that, having content unlocked over time like this is one of the few ways to give this game a sense of progression. Actually, outside of this and I guess collecting costumes via 100 Mario Challenge (assuming you don't have the amiibo), there really is no sense of progression. It's entirely open ended. Having SOME kind of sense of progression in the game is a good thing, because some people need that sense of progression for an experience to be worthwhile. It also prevents people from making the craziest levels they can imagine with every tool available from the start and getting burnt out as a result on the first day or so of playing the game, and it gives people incentive to continue playing each day.
There are very good reasons for content being unlocked gradually over time like this (and it's definitely not the first time Nintendo's done it, either, and I'm not just talking about Splatoon—the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games have handled unlocking creation tools like this in a similar way, too, for example). I know there are plenty of people who've been thinking up some awesome ideas for level designs and just want to be able to create those ideas as soon as possible, but for every person like that I'm sure there are many more people who have no idea of what they want to create, and limiting tools at the beginning while gradually opening up more over time is a great way to ensure that people don't just get overwhelmed and turned off to the game initially.
Really, this is entirely a non-issue. If you really want to have everything opened up to you as soon as possible, guess what? There's absolutely nothing stopping you from cheating the system and changing your Wii U's internal clock ahead to unlock more content instantly. Sure, you'll still have to spend five minutes with the game per "day," but it'll take much longer than five minutes to make a decent Mario level, anyway. If you wanted to, you could start your first five minutes making the base of your level, and then save and gradually add more to your level during the next "days" as more tools become available to you. Or, you know, you could just work with what the game gives you and try out new things as days go by in real time. Do you REALLY have to make your "perfect" level the moment you turn the game on? Is this not a game that you'll be wanting to play for quite awhile? 9 days really isn't that much time at all...
It's very disappointing that this subject has pretty much completely overshadowed the rest of the fantastic overview video.
Captain Europe
Member
Or Nintendo could have just avoided this issue altogether by making something along the lines of a beginner mode and an experienced mode, both camps happy right there. Instead they chose to cater to the people who find the editor overwhelming, and I seriously doubt they are in the majority in this generation of The Sims, Minecraft, LBP, Terraria etc.
Its really a case where people defending this don't seem to understand just how frustrating having limited options can be to some people. I don't think anyone is arguing that there shouldn't be a tutorial that slowly introduces elements to people like yourself. The controversy is strictly that Nintendo is not providing a way around that for the rest of us who don't want to wait out the nine days. Whether turning up the internal clock works or not, its still a lame decision not to give players a legitimate way around it.
I think you greatly underestimate the amount of casual gamers who will be interesting in a game like this who may be easily overwhelmed. While I'm someone who is easily overwhelmed when given too many options, my desire to continue playing the game can usually overpower that in most cases, but only because games are so important to me; I doubt the same would hold true to most casual gamers.
The problem with simply giving people an option to have everything available from the start is that that totally eliminates any sense of progression and removes an element that's supposed to give people incentive to continue playing every day, rather than make a few levels one day and be done with it. And there is a workaround, though not the most elegant, for people who absolutely cannot wait, but I'm pretty sure those people are in the minority overall. It's that vocal minority that's complaining about all this. But why didn't people complain when Nintendo did this with, say, Mario vs. Donkey Kong? It's really not that big of a deal.
TFRazorsaw
Banned
Seth Enosh
Member
Timed unlocking of content is actually a normal video game convention.
I still remember leaving on my GameCube overnight because smash required 24 hours of play time to unlock a character. These kind of grinding requirements are very normal for games nowadays. Animal crossing has a ton of themed content based on your system date. Most shooters require lengthy leveling up to unlock all the content. Heck, I'm 500 hours into destiny and I still haven't unlocked all that games' tools.
Now, this doesn't fully fit into the conventions of modding tools, but those are mostly a PC game thing for expert users, this is a console game pitched at casuals. I don't know if this approach will work but it certainly makes some sense.
I understand that frustration, believe me. But that doesn't mean everything should always be available to use from the start. While I generally don't like being bombarded with options, there are times when I know exactly what I want, and I want it now. Animal Crossing is a great example. There are items in Animal Crossing that I know I want for my house, but I've still got to play the waiting game and hope the items I need show up in the shop, and either continue waiting day by day or find someone online to trade with. You could argue that having every item available to you from the beginning would be preferred by many people and that the game should be designed to take that into account, but that would break the sense of progression and drastically change the flow of the game (and with Super Mario Maker, this day-by-day expansion of your tools is the only real "flow" of the game, so removing that would eliminate it altogether). I believe Happy Home Designer has a similar model of unlocking items gradually, too, and as a game based around design, that's even more similar to Super Mario Maker. There are design reasons for these limitations. Ultimately, it's not that big of a deal. As gamers, we deal with these kind of limitations in so many other games (unlocking characters in a game like Smash Bros., or obtaining a certain Pokémon in Pokémon games, for example), and we generally understand that and deal with it. I think people are mainly complaining here because it's something new. Once people have the game their hands, though (assuming they don't let such a silly thing keep them from picking up the game), I don't think you'll see this being talked about as much, because the "issue" resolves itself so quickly. It's not like these tools are locked behind some kind of difficult challenge. It's open to any skill level, you just have to wait a very short time, or cheat and have everything open to you in under an hour.
entremet
Member
MM is a tentpole title, probably the last biggest exclusive Wii U game, using the most popular mascot.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I know I'm pitching a tent.
Frankly, I don't care for or need a sense of progression in a game like this. Nor do I need any incentive to continue playing the game for 9 days if its any good. Especially through such arbitrary means as turning on the game for 5 minutes a day. Its also not in anyway analogous to unlocking characters in other games or capturing Pokemon because those things are actually tied to individual player engagement and accomplishments. If this were a case where I could progress through a tutorial at my own pace and unlock the items, this would truly be a non-issue.
Whether or not its a big deal, I'll let people decide that on their own. Its not a big deal for me but that doesn't mean that I still don't think it is a lame restriction, I wish Nintendo would reconsider, and I hope the backlash reaches Nintendo and the reconsider any future implementation of such a thing.
Didn't you need to unlock some stuffs in the editor of SSBB?
That shit felt like work, this is actually better.
Gaiaknight
Member
surprised know one has made a topic about the fact that the game is available for pre-load
dreampeppers99
Member
for some odd reason I liked this move (I might becoming a NintendoFantard though =/)
Because that would benefit Nintendo's evil unlocking content approach of this game and of course that is not acceptable because Nintendo is doomed and out of touch...
Thanks for the heads up! Thinking on pre-loading this and going digital... but that box is just really, really good looking, plus it includes a nice booklet. A BOOKLET! in 2015!!
M1ch04c4n0
Banned
I just preordered this today. Those complaining for this silly method of releasing content deserve no joy.
Sure this isn't everything in the game, right? That is missing a ton of elements just from SMW alone, as well as the other games.
That's everything barring DLC as far as we know. It fills up all 5 rows of the editor's menu. It's missing a few things from SMB, a ton of stuff from SMB3, a ton of stuff from SMW, and a megaton of stuff from NSMBU.
Still, it goes a lot further than I was expecting. I wasn't even expecting them to put warp pipes in. The elements it does have are enough to make a ton of great courses, especially mixing elements in ways they've never been mixed before. Hopefully they'll release more stuff in DLC.