Hillary's only really attacked Republicans as this point, and has mostly steered clear of attacking Sanders and O'Malley. Mostly because she doesn't really need to. So I'm not sure where you're getting that she's calling his supporters "crazies"?
Why is Hillary guaranteed to win?
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Hillary's only really attacked Republicans as this point, and has mostly steered clear of attacking Sanders and O'Malley. Mostly because she doesn't really need to. So I'm not sure where you're getting that she's calling his supporters "crazies"?
The thing with sanders is if you look at his positions on healthcare, social issues, taxation, safety nets etc. He looks like the rest of the industrialized western world. But then you delve into his very strict protectionist trade views, his foreign policy ideas and his actual ability to get things done as president given his standing both with his own party and Republicans and the luster wears off for those that understand national and global politics a bit more deeply and nuanced.
I like Sanders and I hope he has a similar effect that Ron Paul did on republicans and Sanders pushes the base toward more cohesive liberal policies and drags the mainstream of the party and the country with them by shining a light on said ideas and discussions.
I don't think Sanders would be an effective president and don't think he would achieve much of anything.
Eh, I think believing that a 73 year old white non-practicing Jewish self-described socialist man from Vermont has any chance of winning the general is at least a bit crazy.
And regarding his platform, look at what congress is like these days. He would have to win so convincingly as to convince the majority of congress that his platform is popular enough to get them reelected. Little to nothing he supports would make it as a bill to his desk.
JoeyJungle
Banned
From http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/
Hillary's dominance this election is real
Hillary's dominance this election is real
titiklabingapat
Member
Correction: His appeal will grow in the Republican base.
Trump is a complete non-starter in the general. You can get away pissing off Hispanics and women in the GOP primary. But you're dead in the water in the general.
So basically Clinton isn't the type of person you could have a beer with? That is main sticking criteria for you?...smfh.
Okay, so, I'm not the biggest Hillary fan. I'm supporting Sanders in the primary. BUT.
You know who thought they deserved to be president? Barack Obama. Also Mitt Romney. Also John McCain. Also John Kerry. Also George W. Bush. Also Al Gore. Also Bob Dole. Also Bill Clinton. And so on. And so on.
All of these people -- all of them -- thought they deserved to be president over their opponent. They wanted to win. And why shouldn't they? I don't want a president who doesn't think they should be the one in the driver's seat.
The idea that Hillary Clinton is some power hungry bitch who has the audacity to think she should be president is this weird myth about her character that we've ascribed to her based on... what? That she ran for president twice? So did a lot of people. That she wants to win? So does everyone. Why is it different for Hillary Clinton to want to be president than anyone else who wants to be president?
People who have basic insight in American politics are saying she is guaranteed to win? I haven't been following things closely but I'd say that's a bit of a stretch, no? I'm not saying she doesn't have an significant advantage, I think that's clear, but a lot can happen between now and election.
For the record, I support Hillary for President. Donated to her too.
I think this email story has been blown out of proportion, but don't underestimate the hivemind of the conservative movement or the stupidity of the American people or media. You can see the GOP candidates already piling on, not outright calling what she did criminal but insinuating it just might be criminal. The left already don't trust her to be a true progressive or push the progressive agenda, the right won't vote for her either way and the middle is slowly wondering if they truly trust her to run the government. She may not be walked away in cuffs, but she might as well be given how this story has unfolded (misinformation, hyperpartisan etc.).
You underestimate the diversity in the Democratic party, I think. A chunk of them are centrist. So what's the purported 'ideals of the party'?
I am very pro Hillary. I don't think she will go to jail. I don't think she did anything to put herself in such a place. The statement was an exaggeration which I guess makes an assumption that Obama and his Justice Department would never allow charges if she was found guilty of something.
I'm sure right wing media believes it though. I personally think the story has merit but its being blown out of proportion. DId she lack clear judgement in the email case? sure. Should she have turned over the server in March? I think so to get it out of the way and not drip drip like it is now. Is she doomed over it? Lol no. Can she recover? Absolutely.
You said, and i quote "I don't think she is an electable candidate."
Now you are saying she has a significant advantage, which is what everyone is saying. Is this like a stealth "I am wrong" post while still trying to argue something?
Extra Sauce
Member
She comes off as fake during her speeches and has little charisma. It pains me to say that she might help the Republicans win.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
What garbage. Yes, all of Bernie sanders is bullshit simple solutions to problems that are too deep and complex and NJ is a battleground state? You're also using Chris fucking Christie as a reason it is one? He approval rating has been going in the shitter for a while now due to his mismanagement of things. NJ isn't turning red unless something absolutely major happens, the win margin for Democrats is significant. I really love how you hand waved literally all of Bernie sanders as bullshit simple solutions that don't work. Bravo.
As someone not from the US it's because she has no real competition and because in these years where social issues are all the rage the first woman president would make great mediatic noise, also she already was famous before the elections.
Seriously if not Hillary then only Trumps can win because everyone vote him for joke.
Seriously if not Hillary then only Trumps can win because everyone vote him for joke.
If I wasn't on mobile i'd look up some reading comprehension stats for you.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...ans-are-at-an-electoral-college-disadvantage/
Colorado was actually the tipping point state in the last two elections. He could've lost Virginia, Florida, and Ohio.
The thought of the modern republican party winning terrifies me. I think this country would no longer be worth living in. And sadly, I don't have the resources to leave. The poor will suffer so much.
Melon Husk
Member
Dunno I guess psychohistory says so or smth
This is kind of funny. You found the husband who cheated on her to be EXTREMELY likable, and he's your favorite POTUS of your lifetime.
You just don't like her as a person. But you really, really like her husband.
Okay.
My base argument on the whole Hillary vs Any Other Democrat debate is this: because of the structure of our government, a Hillary Clinton presidency would look surprisingly similar to a Bernie presidency or a Biden presidency or a Chafee presidency. The House is almost certainly going to remain in GOP hands, which means Congress is gridlocked until redistricting takes effect in 2022.
This leaves two main routes of progressive advances: court rulings and the limited scope that's reachable via executive orders.
This election is about making the best of our situation. Any Democrat will do, and any of the Republicans replacing any of the liberals on the court would mean that progressivism is effectively dead for a few decades. If Democrats were to sweep in 2020 after Ginsburg's been replaced, all the GOP has to do is challenge their signature legislation in court and wait for SCOTUS to kill it.
Too few people get how damn steep the stakes are this time around.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I didn't say that. I said likability matters. I don't like her. She would win without my support, right?
Obama didn't come off like he was feeling like it was "his turn" or whatever. Hillary has this arrogance that I have never liked. In 2008, she was almost laughing at the notion of Obama challenging her--until shit got real in Iowa. I would like nothing more than someone with a similar progressive platform to come in and steal the nomination away from her.
It's cool if you support her. I don't.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
If I misunderstood that's my bad.
dehydratedbabies
Member
Hence why Sanders' goal isn't to simply be elected President, but to embolden Americans who agree with his ideas to organize a long-term grassroots movement that will promote prolonged participation in local and national politics and fight against apathy, cynicism, and the current system at large. Bernie Sanders is well fucking aware of how the political system currently works, and understands that the only way to fix it is for Americans to actively fight against it. Many people think that Americans are inherently or irrevocably complacent and apathetic and that we're either stuck with the current system or can only change it incrementally over a very long period of time. I don't agree with that, and I think that the maturation of the Internet has made Sanders' goal possible.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yup.
I think Bill was a great President. That is what we voted him in to do, not be faithful to his wife.
He also didn't come off as arrogant while serving. I just don't like her "it's my turn" attitude. (Plus Bill visited my school while on the campaign trail so there is that)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If the Obama grassroots movement couldn't do it. Then why would Sanders be able to?
Yup.
I think Bill was a great President. That is what we voted him in to do, not be faithful to his wife.
He also didn't come off as arrogant while serving. I just don't like her "it's my turn" attitude. (Plus Bill visited my school while on the campaign trail so there is that)
Sounds like everything is personal with you. Which seems trivial and petty.
Almost every single politician who's run for president in the history this country has felt that it's their "turn". Ascribing this particular trait to Hillary Clinton is ridiculous. And she was the 11th-most liberal member of Congress during her tenure in her term and a half as Senator. It's not as if Obama was running on a hyper-left wing movement and Hillary was running on a third-way platform that was designed by her husband. She's always been the most liberal member of her family, and she was the one trotted out by the Clinton administration to appease liberals during the height of Third Way mania. This is absolutely revisionist history of the 2008 election combined with biases without root in reality.
You might as well say she's a stuck up bitch and be done with it.
dehydratedbabies
Member
LOL. Bernie talks in depth about his solutions, appearing on TV or radio for 40+ minutes to talk about his solutions. That's how complex his solutions are. Hillary is peddling non-answers to several problems. And Bernie's positions are polling with over 50% support.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Which of those solutions have any chance of passing through Congress?
So what. Polling isn't how we enact laws in this country. Do his policies have ANY chance of getting through Congress?
Sanders would lack support from most in his own party and unanimous Republican opposition and he lacks the infrastructure and experience to counter any of the expensive and coordinated attacks the Republicans will throw at him. Foreign policy wise I still have a number of concerns with Sanders.
Frankly, with Sanders, I think It would be a shit show.
By the time re-election comes up what would Bernie have to campaign on? He would be Carter to the Democrats and the punching bag of the right and have no real accomplishments to his name.
He would likely also tear the party apart as it would in all likelihood force the Democratic party to run a candidate against their incumbent.
As for the rest of your post about the stakes of this election, I 100% agree.
If I had a magic wand I would swap Hillary and Obama's positions for the last 8 years so that way Obama could be the fresh face generating support because this is going to be a monumentally pivotal election for the simple fact of the supreme court and the reverberating effects that will have. I personally want to throw up every time I hear an ignorant liberal say they won't vote if Bernie isn't nominated or even worse will look toward the Republicans as a protest vote.
I'm a bit confused: are we voting for policy, or as some sort of shallow American Idol-type contest? I keep seeing "she seems fake" and "I don't like her," etc.. as though that has some sort of bearing on how policies work.
This is the kind of petty "I need to be able to have a beer with him" shit that got us into trouble in 2000.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Let's not be naive. I love Bernie. I'll vote for him in the primary. When the time comes though, I'll be voting for Hillary over whatever bile the GOP vomits up.
Protectionist trade policies are not complex. They are grade-school level thinking that ignores the basic tenets of modern economics.
I don't need to get a beer with Hillary Clinton. She could literally sit in the oval office eating raw goats that she sacrifices to a giant fucking statue for Baphomet that sits over the grave for Vince Foster for all I fucking care as long as she ends up enacting policy that I agree with.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Good luck with that, I'm sure the gerrymandered districts will just go away.
So tired of it, sorry. The same thing was going on for Obama, changing politics, bringing in new individuals, etc. How did that work out? Politics isn't changing just because Bernie wants it to happen.
You are saying likability matters a great deal to you and I am saying that is an insultingly ignorant way to vet candidates. Then you add this projection you are throwing at Hillary and it comes off even more childish.
Sad to see so many liberals looking worse then Republicans when it comes to evaluating candidates. Superficial metrics over substance. Sums up why America is where it is.
What's Hillary's platform on that?
And_Gignac
Member
If Trump wins the GOP nomination, the Dems need someone just as inflammatory or they are going to lose badly. Joe or Sanders would do. I dont think she has it in her to be an opponent of a populist like Trump.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Trump isn't going to win the primary.
If you're already expecting results, you didnt get the message.
Obama didnt push for a revolution. He's an establishment Dem.
No they don't. If Trump wins the nomination the GOP mine as well start looking toward 2020 because Trump is not getting to 270.
If Trump wins the primary the democrats could go take a nap for a few months and just wake up in time to count the votes and take office.
Google is right there.
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