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[crazyrabbits]

SPOILER

To make it short, the parasite infects the entire Mother Base and Big Boss kills everyone to avoid the parasite to spread over the world.
Whoever wrote the guide believes this is the turning point for Big Boss, which makes this Big Boss the real one and not Venom.
That said, I don't know if they're aware of the secret ending that (should) reveal Venom's true identity, so.. I don't know. Mother Base will be destroyed again, that's sure.

When they say "kills everyone", does that mean BB kills off named characters? It seems Quiet isn't there at that point in the story (she apparently leaves for some reason, turning up as a boss battle in Mission 43, according to the guy who posted the scans/videos), and I doubt Huey/Ocelot would be there, but do they really state that you have to kill all the soldiers you spent time extracting?

 

[Sickboy007]

They are referencing when Big Boss said this to Solid Snake in MGS4. Goddamn man.

I thought it was referencing MGS 4 when Big Boss goes to The Boss's grave.

Is that a direct quote? I can't remember.

 

[Boke1879]

Well that language doesn't have to mean he's in. We don't know one way or the other but it could refer to MGS4 etc when Big Boss talks about how both he and Zero were blinded with their misunderstanding of The Boss' will.

As for Ghost Paz scene being important.....WHYYYY is this making me think Ishmael or whoever = Chico.

9 years Chico would have definitely aged. We haven't see ANY media of him after GZ.

 

[Tookay]

The translations don't make it sound like we're playing a double.

 

[Lakitu]

Guys let me just say one thing. Let's enjoy this moment because we won't ever experience this ever again.

These spoilers are interesting but I think when we play the game and understand the full context of it all. It'll hopefully make a lot more sense and give us something to discuss for years to come.

Yep. Nothing crazier than a Kojima game. Too bad this is really it when it comes to MGS

 

[Shauni]

Is that a direct quote? I can't remember.

I don't know if it's a direct quote, but I remember the conversation enough to know that's what is being referenced.

 

[Venom Fox]

So Solid isn't in then? Is he or not?

 

[Jackpot]

Nobody cares and everyone wants to know what the hell is with the story. Gameplay wise we all know pretty much everything we need to know thanks to the multiple gameplay previews done in the last years.

Then you have a very limited imagination.

What some of the setpieces we'll visit? Labs? Military bases? Is there a point we get to take an on a whole army of soldiers? What are the special tools we can develop? Portable Ops had a realistic laser gun. Maybe we can call in a B52 airstrike?

Did you really think all there was to the gameplay was what we saw in the tutorial levels?

 

[Shauni]

So Solid isn't in then? Is he or not?

All signs are pointing to no.

 

[Boke1879]

All signs are pointing to no.

And that makes the most sense to be honest.

 

[Sickboy007]

So Solid isn't in then? Is he or not?

Nothing at this point seems to suggest it. He's cited a couple of times in Eli's and Big Boss's biography as well but it's all references to stuff in the future.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

So do we have any idea what the REAL Big Boss is doing while we are playing as Venom?

In a coma like always!

 

[CJM0929]

Not a spoiler, just off topic.

Spoiler

Do you guys think MGSV will rate above 89 in metacritic or it will happen the same thing as Batman AK ? Some critics and cons here and there and it will rate mid 80's.

 

[mushroommg]

No Solid Snake. No David Hayter. Play as fake Big Boss.
I hate you, Kojima!

 

[TwoDurans]

Not a spoiler, just off topic.

Spoiler

Do you guys think MGSV will rate above 89 in metacritic or it will happen the same thing as Batman AK ? Some critics and cons here and there and it will rate mid 80's.

Because of the hype, and the history, if this game is even remotely as good as everyone says it is it'll be in the low 90s.

 

[convo]

Guys let me just say one thing. Let's enjoy this moment because we won't ever experience this ever again.

These spoilers are interesting but I think when we play the game and understand the full context of it all. It'll hopefully make a lot more sense and give us something to discuss for years to come.

We all are sweating bullets at slight glimpses of the complete insanity that is going to happen in the game.

 

[DevilFox]

I need more context than this. I can't tell if they mean that it's obvious that there are 2 big boss characters in the game or not.

Guide refers to the leader of Diamond Dogs (Venom) to be the "original model" of Les Enfants Terrible project but he's unaware of this truth. Again they say "from the narrative elements emerged" which makes me think they don't have clear ideas, honestly. Anyway, Eli believes to be his son (Ocelot tells him otherwise, like the reddit guy said).

When they say "kills everyone", does that mean BB kills off named characters? It seems Quiet isn't there at that point in the story (she apparently leaves for some reason, turning up as a boss battle in Mission 43, according to the guy who posted the scans/videos), and I doubt Huey/Ocelot would be there, but do they really state that you have to kill all the soldiers you spent time extracting?

It's said "his soldiers", nothing else.

edit: if my eyes work, I'm reading that Volgin was.. in coma, and someone studied his body. Thanks to baby Mantis, this "man on fire" was created. Can't read further.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Then you have a very limited imagination.

What some of the setpieces we'll visit? Labs? Military bases? Is there a point we get to take an on a whole army of soldiers? What are the special tools we can develop? Portable Ops had a realistic laser gun. Maybe we can call in a B52 airstrike?

Did you really think all there was to the gameplay was what we saw in the tutorial levels?

Sorry but the Gamescom trailer did a really good job into pointing out different approaches to missions. Also we all played GZ, gameplay wise I have no doubts what the game is going to offer, which I would guess is why everyone is more interested in the story side of things.

 

[Boke1879]

Not a spoiler, just off topic.

Spoiler

Do you guys think MGSV will rate above 89 in metacritic or it will happen the same thing as Batman AK ? Some critics and cons here and there and it will rate mid 80's.

I'd mid 80's at the lowest. But I'm expecting high 80's low 90's to be honest.


I have to question though. I wonder how many of these reviews went in depth into the tapes? No doubt those will will flesh out more of the story.

 

[213372bu]

Is that a direct quote? I can't remember.

I think it was a reference to when Big Boss said he "died"(could be a translation change of phrase:'buried with The Boss" )ever since he killed the Boss, yet show that with MGS V, his emotions show that he isn't truly "dead". He is able to have a respectful relationship with Quiet and still miss Paz.

I think it's just trying to build up on the fact that Big Boss is a human and is able to suffer/have emotions as shown in MGS V and not a soulless monster as he tells Solid Snake in MGS 4.

 

[Tzmhero]

So if what people are saying is true, Venom is less a 'clone' of Big Boss in the natural way, and more like how the 'Clones' worked in Final Fantasy 7... expirimentations performed on people to make them similar on a certain level... with major mental and physical alterations performed that makes them similar in some way.

 

[Shauni]

And that makes the most sense to be honest.

Yeah, Solid Snake being in this was always a horrible idea really, at least as an adult in any form. I was always amazed at those people who thought this would end with some kind of remake of MG1 were you invaded Mother Base as Solid Snake, and actually thought it was a good idea. That would've been horrible, fan-wanking nonsense. Having Solid as a kid or something, sure, but that's all that was needed here.

 

[Boke1879]

Yeah, Solid Snake being in this was always a horrible idea really, at least as an adult in any form. I was always amazed at those people who thought this would end with some kind of remake of MG1 were you invaded Mother Base as Solid Snake, and actually thought it was a good idea. That would've been horrible, fan-wanking nonsense. Having Solid as a kid or something, sure, but that's all that was needed here.

I'm talking about even as a kid. Solid never knew about Liquid and he only knew BB as his commanding officer in MG1.

Snake is probably somewhere far away being raise by many people like he said in MGS1

 

[Shauni]

I'm talking about even as a kid. Solid never knew about Liquid and he only knew BB as his commanding officer in MG1.

Snake is probably somewhere far away being raise by many people like he said in MGS1

Yeah, I agree. I was just saying as a kid, it'd be excusable as a recton or something, but even that I could do without really.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

All we know is that something carries over to TPP in terms of staff. Whether that's only unique characters, POWs or soldiers and if there's a difficulty tied to it is currently unknown.

Ahh I see, too bad we don't know for sure. Thanks.

 

[213372bu]

The retcons of Big Boss are really taking away the interest he had over Solid.

I mean, it really goes against who Big Boss was this entire series.

 

[Tookay]

Guide refers to the leader of Diamond Dogs (Venom) to be the "original model" of Les Enfants Terrible project but he's unaware of this truth. Again they say "from the narrative elements emerged" which makes me think they don't have clear ideas, honestly. Anyway, Eli wants him dead as he believes to be the result of Les Enfants Terrible project as well (Ocelot tells him otherwise, like the reddit guy said).
Venom is not Big Boss, 95% sure at this point.

None of those imply Venom is different from Big Boss.

They're saying Venom/BB is the "original model" because that's the truth: Big Boss is the original model, who is the basis of the cloning project. That lends credence that Venom and Big Boss are one and the same, not different.

Big Boss wasn't aware he was cloned either (until later) so saying that Venom wasn't aware doesn't suggest anything.

Further, Eli could just resent VS/BB for being his "father" - and the subject of Les Enfants Terrible.

 

[Boke1879]

The retcons of Big Boss are really taking away the interest he had over Solid.

I mean, it really goes against who Big Boss was this entire series.

How? If what I assumes happens is the case this is what turns him into a fucking monster. All in an attempt to get Zero.

 

[CJM0929]

fresh from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/M2mIboc.jpg

 

[Boke1879]

The one thing that boggles my mind and may prove that "venom" is different than BB is the fact that Kojima stated in like 2013 that Big Boss was only in a coma ONCE. and that was during the LET project in the 70's.

We know this character was in a coma for 9 years. Now unless Kojima was lying we know BB was never in two comas

 

[213372bu]

How? If what I assumes happens is the case this is what turns him into a fucking monster. All in an attempt to get Zero.

A much more interesting tale than him killing his soldiers to stop spread of the "parasite" would be a descent into Big Boss becoming "the Devil" and his reliance on Outer Heaven's/The Boss's philosophy to be his undoing.

A simple killing of all his soldiers at the end of the game doesn't nearly close the loop of how Big Boss becomes who he is.

fresh from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/M2mIboc.jpg

Reads like it.

Chico is Quiet conspiracy theories are being played out

 

[Venom Fox]

None of those imply Venom is different from Big Boss.

He's the "original model" because he's the basis of the cloning project. It's just a funky translation saying that he is the ORIGINAL, not a clone.

Big Boss wasn't aware he was cloned either (until later), so that comment doesn't change anything.

Further, Eli could just resent him for being his "father" - and the subject of Les Enfants Terrible.

What that guy said didn't make any kind of sense to me whatsoever, we KNOW Venom (Venom is apparently the Medic, who we know isn't a clone) isn't Big Boss so that makes Liquid, Solid and Solodus clones of the Venom and not big boss?

Kojima done fucked up if that's the way it is.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

The one thing that boggles my mind and may prove that "venom" is different than BB is the fact that Kojima stated in like 2013 that Big Boss was only in a coma ONCE. and that was during the LET project in the 70's.

We know this character was in a coma for 9 years. Now unless Kojima was lying we know BB was never in two comas

Kojima also said that the "what about him" in the trailer of GZ was referring to himself and whatever but we now know that it was bullshit to cover the twist of the story.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

The translations don't make it sound like we're playing a double.

I'm kind of thinking that now.

 

[Boke1879]

A much more interesting tale than him killing his soldiers to stop spread of the "parasite" would be a descent into Big Boss becoming "the Devil" and his reliance on Outer Heaven's/The Boss's philosophy to be his undoing.

A simple killing of all his soldiers at the end of the game doesn't nearly close the loop of how Big Boss becomes who he is.

But Big Boss using this "venom" character does. Implanting false memory, making him carry out the dirty work while believing he is Big Boss only to lure out Cipher.

 

[-Stryder-]

Aside from reddit dude, what strong evidence do we have that Big Boss isn't Venom Snake.


The Guide has said "BIG BOSS AKA VENOM SNAKE" when referring to the character we play as in MGSV,

 

[Boke1879]

What that guy said didn't make any kind of sense to me whatsoever, we KNOW Venom (Venom is apparently the Medic, who we know isn't a clone) isn't Big Boss so that makes Liquid, Solid and Solodus clones of the Venom and not big boss?

Kojima done fucked up if that's the way it is.

No. Unless it's a false spoiler its stated that Venom's DNA doesn't match that of Eli.

 

[KOMANI]

Aside from reddit dude, what strong evidence do we have that Big Boss isn't Venom Snake.


The Guide has said "BIG BOSS AKA VENOM SNAKE" when referring to the character we play as in MGSV,

But at the same time, that's just a reprint of the snake timeline that came out months ago. The same guide suggests that Ishmael is a doppelgänger.

 

[-Stryder-]

But at the same time, that's just a reprint of the snake timeline that came out months ago. The same guide suggests that Ishmael is a doppelgänger.

And also insinuates that he might just be a figment of the big boss' imagination...

 

[DevilFox]

None of those imply Venom is different from Big Boss.

He's the "original model" because he's the basis of the cloning project. It's just a funky translation saying that he is the ORIGINAL, not a clone.

Big Boss wasn't aware he was cloned either (until later), so that comment doesn't change anything.

Further, Eli could just resent him for being his "father" - and the subject of Les Enfants Terrible.

I can confirm the last sentence. As the rest, you're probably right. The word "model" confused me.

No. Unless it's a false spoiler its stated that Venom's DNA doesn't match that of Eli.

Only a perfect clone would've the same DNA of Big Boss. Neither Liquid or Solid had the same DNA, indeed they needed Solidus' DNA in MGS4.

 

[MiamiWesker]

NOT READING ANYTHING! I want to know what the general mood is in this thread now that it seems real spoilers are out. Is it positive? Negative? Confusion? You can pm me the answer, thanks.

 

[Boke1879]

LMAO at how crazy all of this is getting. People are confusing themselves. I do wish Konami could just push up the release because no doubt shit will start getting spoiled by next weekend.


Without story context, without the tapes we're going off of a guide that probably isn't telling us the whole story.

 

[-Stryder-]

But at the same time, that's just a reprint of the snake timeline that came out months ago. The same guide suggests that Ishmael is a doppelgänger.

http://imgur.com/a/kgbpE

 

[KOMANI]

And also insinuates that he might just be a figment of the big boss' imagination...

That's why I don't think we can go with the guide concerning what might be the biggest twist in the game.

 

[Boke1879]

I can confirm the last sentence. As the rest, you're probably right. The word "model" confused me.



Only a perfect clone would've the same DNA of Big Boss. Neither Liquid or Solid had the same DNA, indeed they needed Solidus' DNA in MGS4.

My bad I took that to mean "Venom" literally isn't a genetic match at all. Like no relation.

 

[TwoDurans]

http://imgur.com/a/kgbpE

Seems like they're speculating in the guide, and clearly haven't seen Fight Club.

My guess is that no one knows who Ishmael is. The guide isn't definitive.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

http://imgur.com/a/kgbpE

That is so poorly translated. The second to last paragraph literally makes no sense.

 

[KOMANI]

http://imgur.com/a/kgbpE

Seems like they're speculating in the guide.

That is so poorly translated. The second to last paragraph literally makes no sense.

I can't go with a guide that needs to "safely assume" Eli is Liquid. A guide should be more definitive than that.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I can't go with a guide that needs to "safely assume" Eli is Liquid. A guide should be more definitive than that.

I agree.....wtf?


Edit: that does explain something I read somewhere about the game never flat out saying who anyone is. They're just characters in the game. It apparently never says things like "this" character ends up being "that" character at all.

 

[Sickboy007]

"At the end of The Phantom Pain, the epidemic of a mutated strand of the vocal cords parasite aboard Mother Base forces Big Boss to exterminate his soldiers to prevent a global catastrophe. Even if he takes on this responsibility without any apparent remorse, it's impossible to ignore the signals that reveal that this events have contributed to unleash his "inner demon".

Maybe the events of The Phantom Pain have brought Big Boss down the road that transforms him into the "oni" of this event. Maybe it is necessary for Solid Snake to defeat him, ending the Patriot's story. Even if that's the case, this is not a traditional, dramatic transformation: Big Boss becomes the antagonist gradually, slowly consumed by what happens to him until all that is left is his obsession.

He is more determined than ever to reinforce his troops, with the aim of forming a nation free from the governments' hegemony, a dream he will be on the verge of realising in the 90s."