SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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bad said:
I think the blame should be towards the Voice Director. Hayter gets a lot of shit, but there is a director with him that can tell him, "do it this way", "sound less gurgling".
I understand what David Hayter was trying to achieve with the character. Solid Snake is a smoker and a war vet, and not to mention he's 70-something years of age in MGS4.
With Peacwalker, I saw it as the transition from "Snake" to the villain "Big Boss"... His "Cobra Commander" voice, if you wish.

Saying all that, my favorite is indeed PS1's MGS. Also, the voice acting in MGS1 is so strong, it's never surpassed and reached again in the series. I also LIKE his "OuterHeaven" speech. He's the only one in the whole series that doesn't come off as campy because of his voice and delivery.
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Then blame lies with Kojima. MGS1's US va director saw the script as being ass and did what he could to salvage it. Kojima flipped out at his changes and made sure he never worked on his games again enforcing his direct translation speak as the only way for voice acting in the series going forward.
 
Oh, I blame Kojima as well.
"Now go, let the legend come back to life!" Should have been streamlined for western audiences to ," Go on, let the legend live on."
 
Hurricane43 said:
Today it has started according to this tweet...Am sure the leak is very close... Check out @BahrainGame's Tweet: https://twitter.com/BahrainGame/status/635113989551337472?s=09
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This from a Twitter account that keeps an eye on the Middle-Eastern leaks:

hct5L43.png


http://twitter.com/thabtoUK/status/635441559576645632

And if it had leaked, I'm pretty sure that pictures and videos would be showing up on social media and Reddit.

I think that advert you posted above were either just misinformed or looking for attention.
 
MickeyKnox said:
Then blame lies with Kojima. MGS1's US va director saw the script as being ass and did what he could to salvage it. Kojima flipped out at his changes and made sure he never worked on his games again enforcing his direct translation speak as the only way for voice acting in the series going forward.
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na, listen to all deliveries of other VA. Kaz, Otacon, Ocellit, i mean... the list is pretty big and consistent. The only variable is Hayter. MGS has good VA directors if they can get good people to do the recordings. Hayter.. is below average imo. He has his moments... but he is just as bad as the original script hah.

Keifer is awesome... even tho he mispronounces some things, he has more interesting emotions and unspoken feelings in his lines. Kojima is right when he didn't want to spell everything out. Just saying "Kaz?" instead of "Kaz, you alright?". Difference is huge.

I am very excited to see more of Keifers performance. and i'll be happy if Hayter is off the tablet. Heck..make a Bungie move and re record all of Hayters lines with Keifer, and rerelease all the games. LOL.

I like Hayter because he is familiar as the original snake voice. Thats it. and i have to agree that his best was in MGS1... he even said in interviews he could not keep up doing the same gruff. Too forced.
 
brau said:
na, listen to all deliveries of other VA. Kaz, Otacon, Ocellit, i mean... the list is pretty big and consistent. The only variable is Hayter. MGS has good VA directors if they can get good people to do the recordings. Hayter.. is below average imo. He has his moments... but he is just as bad as the original script hah.

Keifer is awesome... even tho he miss pronunciates some things, he has more interesting emotions and unspoken feelings in his lines. Kojima is right when he didn't want to spell everything out. Just saying "Kaz?" instead of "Kaz, you alright?". Difference is huge.

I am very excited to see more of Keifers performance. and i'll be happy if Hayter is off the tablet. Heck..make a Bungie move and re record all of Hayters lines with Keifer, and rerelease all the games. LOL.

I like Hayter because he is familiar as the original snake voice. Thats it. and i have to agree that his best was in MGS1... he even said in interviews he could not keep up doing the same gruff. Too forced.
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There's a lot of misinformation in this post.
 
MGS1 Hayter was the best. But then he started to end each word with the same intonation/emphasis on the end of each and every word. It's stupid, no one talks like that. Kiefer's gonna do a much better job, even if his voice is dramatically different, at least he talks like a human being.

Edit: Compare that torture clip with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGuFTMGllwk

Exact same lines, but Snake sounds so.. bad. "Metal Gearrrr"
 
brau said:
na, listen to all deliveries of other VA. Kaz, Otacon, Ocellit, i mean... the list is pretty big and consistent. The only variable is Hayter. MGS has good VA directors if they can get good people to do the recordings. Hayter.. is below average imo. He has his moments... but he is just as bad as the original script hah.

Keifer is awesome... even tho he miss pronunciates some things, he has more interesting emotions and unspoken feelings in his lines. Kojima is right when he didn't want to spell everything out. Just saying "Kaz?" instead of "Kaz, you alright?". Difference is huge.

I am very excited to see more of Keifers performance. and i'll be happy if Hayter is off the tablet. Heck..make a Bungie move and re record all of Hayters lines with Keifer, and rerelease all the games. LOL.

I like Hayter because he is familiar as the original snake voice. Thats it. and i have to agree that his best was in MGS1... he even said in interviews he could not keep up doing the same gruff. Too forced.
Click to expand...
Hating on Hayter but thinks Otacon is fine...
that a first for me.
 
MickeyKnox said:
Then blame lies with Kojima. MGS1's US voice director saw the script as being ass and did what he could to salvage it. Kojima flipped out at his changes and made sure he never worked on his games again enforcing his direct translation speak as the only way for voice acting in the series going forward.
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Blaustein (MGS1's translator) never said he viewed the script as bad, barring a few of the more cringeworthy moments that slipped into the English version anyway. (Can love bloom on a battlefield.)

What he did try to do was take a few liberties here and there to make it sound like a script originally written in English, i.e. making it sound as natural to English speakers as the original did to Japanese. Not so "salvage" anything.

And to some extend Kojima seems to know this is necessary, in an old interview for Integral's Japanese PS1 release he talks about the translation, specifically Mei Ling's chinese proverbs and that you can't really translate everything 1:1 into English.

The real issue is that Blaustein and Scott Dolph (Who oversaw the game's overall localization.) didn't get along but Dolph and Kojima appearently did, so when he told Kojima that the translation butchered the script, all he could do was either trust him or not.

Edit: And I agree that a lot of the voice performance issues are on the voice director, not the actors specifically. It's not just Hayter, Otacon can't act in an emotional scene to save his life, (Except maybe Sniper Wolf's death, because his reactions are a bit more subdued than the full on cry he's supposed to do in MGS2 and 4 and because MGS1's VA was partly directed by Blaustein.) Kaz sounds bored out of his mind during most of Peace Walker and GZ. So did The Boss in MGS3, etc.
 
RyanardoDaVinci said:
Which makes no sense because his MGS1 voice is closest to his normal speaking voice; his voice gets rougher and rougher with each game.
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Its weird. thats for sure. He has plenty of interviews where he talks about this. Also, he tries to do more with his voice through out the games.
 
So have we heard anything crazy outside of the fact that we're playing a clone of Big Boss?

valentine71 said:
From this: MGS Codec Call After The Torture Scene

To a terrible Peace Walker performance: Peace Walker The Movie

I really like Hayter but its just sad... And after watching that codec call, now i wanna replay the original MGS..
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... The weird thing in contrasting those two audio samples is that the speech he does in Peace Walker seems to feature Hayter using the same cadence and tone for line after line. He times each word and the emotion to exactly the same length and feeling. It's just... robotic.
 
RyanardoDaVinci said:
Which makes no sense because his MGS1 voice is closest to his normal speaking voice; his voice gets rougher and rougher with each game.
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He's already proved he can do the mgs1 voice. He's demonstrated it in interviews. But the reason mgs1 works is not just his voice, the acting is SO gooood, and all the actors are working off each other in the same room. There's something very special about ALL those performances.
 
DMiz said:
So have we heard anything crazy outside of the fact that we're playing a clone of Big Boss?
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At no point do the leaks from the official guide mention this. It does however give strong clues that the Medic from Ground Zeroes is the version of Big Boss we play as in The Phantom Pain. This version is also known as Ahab.

It also gives clues that Ishmael is the real Big Boss.

Click here for the full info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176252541&postcount=2198
 
Oh MGS fan.. first they praise Hayter, then they backstab him and praise Kiefer as soon as Hayter gets replaced :( Few lines in the trailers are more than enough to prove that Master Kojima is right, he's always right. Lovely fanbase. Hayter's voice is as much important as the chara design, it really helped to shape our Snakes.
Personally, I think that his performance is weak only in Peace Walker, but quite honestly everything and everyone is weak in that game. It feels like they've read a script without having access to the cutscenes, as it happens 80% of the times when games get a dub in my language.
Then, there's the Voice director thing. I agree, he's to blame.
But to blame even more is the person who decided to give Big Boss and Solid the same voice from the beginning.

Anyway, back to the spoilers. Venom is Chico.
 
I dunno, I first thought his VA wasn't up to par back when MGS3 was released.

Of course not everyone will agree on this, but I've seen that sentiment quite a lot, even back then.
 
At this point, I would love for Kiefer Sutherland to voice Solid and Donald Sutherland to voice Big Boss in a MG1 remake.
 
Hayter's voice got progressively more gruff per game. He's like littlefinger from Game of Thrones. He'd probably sound like a Terran Firebat from Starcraft: Broodwar if he voiced Boss in MGSV.

Also why is that NeoGAF post being linked to even on Reddit when all of the information is essentially taken from reddit? Just use pastebin or something.
 
First time reading the thread, and all this talk about parasites... all I can think about is when did Metal Gear adapt the Las Plagas from RE4?

Are they figurative, or literal?
 
thabtoUK said:
At no point do the leaks from the official guide mention this. It does however give strong clues that the Medic from Ground Zeroes is the version of Big Boss we play as in The Phantom Pain. This version is also known as Ahab.

It also gives clues that Ishmael is the real Big Boss.

Click here for the full info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176252541&postcount=2198
Click to expand...


This is so stupid that if it's true it's gonna ruin the game for me. Who wants to play like this nobody, we have no emotional attachment to, it was big boss's story that we wanted to know more about.. Fuck me
 
Emedan said:
This is so stupid that if it's true it's gonna ruin the game for me. Who wants to play like this nobody, we have no emotional attachment to, it was big boss's story that we wanted to know more about.. Fuck me
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Read back through the last few pages. It's quite plausible and not stupid (at least when we're operating on Metal Gear levels of criticism).
 
Emedan said:
This is so stupid that if it's true it's gonna ruin the game for me. Who wants to play like this nobody, we have no emotional attachment to, it was big boss's story that we wanted to know more about.. Fuck me
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Not saying you're wrong or anything (honest!) but it's not like playing as someone else wouldn't still be all about Big Boss' story since he would be the evil puppet master. Still understand what you're raging bout tho.

possible dp
 
RADRAD said:
First time reading the thread, and all this talk about parasites... all I can think about is when did Metal Gear adapt the Las Plagas from RE4?

Are they figurative, or literal?
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Kojima is in horror mode,people been saying the game is a bit spooky.
 
thabtoUK said:
Where are you getting this from? The parasite is literal and infects people's voice boxes.

The excerpts from the official guide don't mention nanomachines once.
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You got it other way around. The nanomachines worked like parasites to some level in existing games. So now "simple" parasites aren't outta place.
 
thabtoUK said:
Just making it clear that this is just speculation by others, not what came from the official guide ;-)
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Yeah, fair point. Still, 70% of this thread if speculation :P I just feel with the way MGS plays with theoretical technology and all sorts then clumsy, brute force proto-nanomachines of a sort in the 70s wouldn't be out of the ordinary, and would fit into the universe more effectively (imo) than a parasite that attacks the vocal chords, especially with the way we saw DD soldiers lumbering around in that trailer.

So I feel like it's an attempt at nanomachines but obviously after their disastrous implementation and lack of efficiency in the way something like FOXDIE was, initially, very efficient, it'd be a reasonable assumption...

As you suggested though, I should have pointed out it wasn't all from the guide (my reasoning for nanomachines also comes from the mission name that roughly translates to metal micro-organisms).
 
thabtoUK said:
At no point do the leaks from the official guide mention this. It does however give strong clues that the Medic from Ground Zeroes is the version of Big Boss we play as in The Phantom Pain. This version is also known as Ahab.

It also gives clues that Ishmael is the real Big Boss.

Click here for the full info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176252541&postcount=2198
Click to expand...
Seems like there is no update since the last time I visited?

Ah well, thank you for making that post. It has been interesting to say the least.

Just a few more hours to go until the reviews drop.
 
thabtoUK said:
At no point do the leaks from the official guide mention this. It does however give strong clues that the Medic from Ground Zeroes is the version of Big Boss we play as in The Phantom Pain. This version is also known as Ahab.

It also gives clues that Ishmael is the real Big Boss.

Click here for the full info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176252541&postcount=2198
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have to admit that I'm one of the people who aren't particularly happy with this development. Irrespective of whether or not I was spoiled, I think coming to figure this out while playing the game would have had me put up my arms and just frown.

Still, will get this game. Need to support Kojima in some small fashion, however much I don't think that this game will win over the spot that MGS3 has in my heart.
 
I quickly jumped into this thread right now by accident and thankfully haven't read any spoilers but do see a discussion on voice acting quality. My 2c is that it's both a script and direction problem, as most of the performers have proven they're more than capable of delivering strong performances in other titles or animated series.

Fact of the matter is for most part the scripts of the Metal Gear games are incredibly hammy and littered with pulpy, unnatural dialogue flow. Characters are exaggerated to the point of characture and scenes are often in desperate need of being edited down. When a performer is given mixed dialogue to work with, scenes that have poor natural flow and a lack of chemistry between the cast members, the performances as a whole suffer. You find in the latter Metal Gear games the silliness and contrived dialogue is won over by performances that embrace the ridiculousness. Patric Zimmerman is exceptionally good at this, and Christopher Randolph understands who his character is and how to be Otacon, right through the silly script.

Hayter only got more and more grizzled and silly sounding as the series progressed to the point of Peace Walker and its awfulness. The guy personified Solid Snake and I love him for that, and I like most of his performances for what they are in most of the games, but by Peace Walker he really sounds like he's doing a parody of parodies that came from Snake's grizzled voice. I'm sure the voice directors are at fault there too, along with others, for failing to draw strong, convincing performances out of the cast.

But yeah, I mean, as much as I enjoy (even if sometimes hate) the stories in the Metal Gear games, and the cutscenes, by no stretch of the imagination are most of the dialogue exchanges and monologues remotely natural and realistic. It's at its best in the PS1 release of MGS and even that has its moments of "NOW I WILL EXPLAIN EVERYTHING".
 
bad said:
Oh, I blame Kojima as well.
"Now go, let the legend come back to life!" Should have been streamlined for western audiences to ," Go on, let the legend live on."
Click to expand...

"Kept you waiting huh?" should've been "have some fucking patience bro"

goddamn Kojima
 
NeoGiff said:
Read back through the last few pages. It's quite plausible and not stupid (at least when we're operating on Metal Gear levels of criticism).
Click to expand...

It is stupid, it's the stupidest thing to have ever happen in a MGS game. It's ruining it completely (for me) cause it's so IMPLAUSIBLE. I've debated about this before in other threads - about MGS relationship to reality and world building and I argue that MGS though outlandish with it's technology and such at least always seemed plausible (Supernatural elements aside, we're talking about things that doesn't bend reality too much as in biology and physics, mostly technology in the series).
BossDarkseid said:
Not saying you're wrong or anything (honest!) but it's not like playing as someone else wouldn't still be all about Big Boss' story since he would be the evil puppet master. Still understand what you're raging bout tho.

possible dp
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Sure, I understand the reasoning, like with MGS2, which was more about developing Snake as a character for you as a player to observe rather than control and project yourself on. But with this it's way different. If we're being led to believe we're playing as BB through the game to just get a big FU at the end it takes away what you've done throughout the game, at least for me. What's the point? Really, JESUS.

Edit:
To clarify; if they didn't want you to play as BB they should've been upfront with that you're another character, not tricking us to believe we are what we're not. It also damages how to develop BB. If he was gone for the whole game then what was the point. He had no way of effecting the outcome of what's happening and therefore no meaning in the story... Damnit this just makes me furious to think about
 
Emedan said:
It is stupid, it's the stupidest thing to have ever happen in a MGS game. It's ruining it completely (for me) cause it's so IMPLAUSIBLE. I've debated about this before in other threads - about MGS relationship to reality and world building and I argue that MGS though outlandish with it's technology and such at least always seemed plausible (Supernatural elements aside, we're talking about things that doesn't bend reality too much as in biology and physics, mostly technology in the series).


Sure, I understand the reasoning, like with MGS2, which was more about developing Snake as a character for you as a player to observe rather than control and project yourself on. But with this it's way different. If we're being led to believe we're playing as BB through the game to just get a big FU at the end it takes away what you've done throughout the game, at least for me. What's the point? Really, JESUS.
Click to expand...

Well I don't think it'd take away the rest of the game in the way the relative uniform of ME3's "endings" made the choices matter little at the climax but I understand your point. I don't mean this in a dick way but I still think you should calm down (unless it's just how internet stuff reads) and wait for reviews or the game because this is largely speculation and theories. I mean the "What's the point" could be answered in hte game, or simply by saying that you're just a puppet of BB and it's not WHO you are that's important (which would be the case if the player character was a blank slate rather than Jaeger or Solidus) but what you do and did during the game. That would all still could and wouldn't suddenly not matter because the proverbial rug was pulled out from under our feet.

THAT said...most of the speculation here in terms of the overarching plot could still work even if you play as BB the whole way through. I feel like for BB to become a monster their probably needs to be some element of duology because it'd be a lot harder for people to dislike, hate and demonize someone they played as because the actively participated in those actions. I know GTA is kinda big dumb fun but, not trying to be some white knight, but by the time I finished GTAV I didn't really like any of the main characters because of the awful things they did, even though in 99% of games you amy still kill a billion identikit bad guys etc.

Anyhoo i really don't mean it to sound like lecture mode or that I'm being condescending (apologies if it does), I just...probably get a bit Kojima when I try to explain something :P

Edit: As to your edit...one of the running theories would be that Kaz and Ocelot would be the only MB staff in on it so they'd err and coerce Player Character towards drawing Zero's attention through various things so BB would absolutely still be the puppet master...buut yeah. If you never got the sense BB was a presence even if he wasn't there (sorta like how you are well aware of the Emperor in Star Wars even tho I don't think he physically appears till Ep VI).
 
The only issue I'm having with Kiefer is that I'm having a hard time disconnecting him from the voice. Whenever I hear BB talk, all I see in my mind is Keifer's face talking.
 
I mean, if Venom turns out to be Jaeger and he and the real BB just hold hands after the end of this, Kojima should never write the plot for any of his future games ever again. All the loyal MGS fans should be shitting on him every day on twitter from here on out. Nobody should support his future games and he should rightfully be outed as a hack.

The point is, the twist in this game where it turns out we're not playing as Big Boss for the first 40 hours CAN work, only if it's done right.
 
I've seen an interview with David Hayter where he talks about trying to make each of the games' performances unique. I think it's his fault, not the voice director's.

Snake became hayter's own character.


I can easily attach kiefer's voice to TPP big boss because he looks so much different than each snake before him. Different uniform, no headband, etc. If you compare the MGS3 model to the 5 model, he looks quite different.

maxresdefault.jpg


vs

gt_e3_2013_mgs5_kojima_interview_replace_dm.jpg
 
shocky2002 said:
I mean, if Venom turns out to be Jaeger and he and the real BB just hold hands after the end of this, Kojima should never write the plot for any of his future games ever again. All the loyal MGS fans should be shitting on him every day on twitter from here on out. Nobody should support his future games and he should rightfully be outed as a hack.

The point is, the twist in this game where it turns out we're not playing as Big Boss for the first 40 hours CAN work, only if it's done right.
Click to expand...


Haha. Kojima is an awful writer.

We are talking about a guy who turned his arguably best character, the boss, into a bucket.

Or the character that started it all, Solid snake, into an old-man parody of himself.

The list can go on and on with horrible writing decisions.
 
MAX PAYMENT said:
Haha. Kojima is an awful writer.

We are talking about a guy who turned his arguably best character, the boss, into a bucket.
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All the added backstory in PW was completly unnecessary, but I thought it was pretty much in line with MGS3, where it turned out that despite her grand speeches she was used like a mere disposable tool and gladly accepted her fate.
 
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