Rap is black music, but Eminem does it better than black artists according to 50cent

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PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

K9xVVKd.gif
 
15 years ago? Definitely.

Now? Hell no.

50 seems to be basing this all on the ability to sell records rather than the actually quality of their respective music.
 
I agree with 50. Eminem suffers from being around too long. Which I think in hip hop hurts more than other genre's.

Being number 1 is always subjective, but Eminem is an amazing artist. That can't be denied, he is also still making good music. Not the caliber of his younger days, but still enjoyable.

And some black people hate it. Lmfao. Reminds me of white people taking away from James Brown and rock n roll. I just laugh at the thinly veiled racism/jealousy.
 
I used to be a huge 50 fanboy but damn homie when I was highschool you was the man homie the fuck happened to you?

Mixtapes
Power of the Dollar
GROD
Beg for mercy
The massacre
GROD OST

After that man 50 fell hard.
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...
Where is the lie
 
Eminem is probably one of the best wordsmiths in the rap game... i actually think his color played a part in that because he couldn't rely on the N word to bail him out in a majority of his songs like non white rappers. He knew how to put words together in a way that not many rappers could. Kool G rap/Nas/Kweli and a few others could link words in a way like eminem, but unfortunately they didn't have the machine of Dre behind them to make the hits consistently. Em was definitely one of the best to do it and should be mentioned with the greats when all is said and done.
 
Malleymal said:
Eminem is probably one of the best wordsmiths in the rap game... i actually think his color played a part in that because he couldn't rely on the N word to bail him out in a majority of his songs like non white rappers. He knew how to put words together in a way that not many rappers could. Kool G rap/Nas/Kweli and a few others could link words in a way like eminem, but unfortunately they didn't have the machine of Dre behind them to make the hits consistently. Em was definitely one of the best to do it and should be mentioned with the greats when all is said and done.
Click to expand...

The n word has never made a song.

Except for All Gold Everything, and trinidad wasnt even lyrical.

Rappers relying on the n word isnt even a real thing.
 
Music isn't tied to skin color. Quality is quality. That said, I am not exactly familiar with a lot of rap music, so I wouldn't know who I consider best.
 
PhoenixDark said:
[...]
If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

Preach.
 
You could have said this in the 90s and I would have agreed.

But the idea of music belonging to one group of people feels wrong to me. It's like assuming because someone is black, they listen to rap because it's "black music" and if they listen to anything else it's not OK...which sadly, I've met a few people who are black that do think that way about themselves.

Eminem's success in the genre has done a lot for rap artists I'd argue as well. Part of that having to do with him being white, and bringing songs to the mainstream because he was white. I think his success has lead to seeing other rap songs and had influence, just like songs before him had influence. But the best out there is all subjective, and his skills to me have gotten very weak in recent years.
 
birthday-suit said:
The n word has never made a song.

Except for All Gold Everything, and trinidad wasnt even lyrical.

Rappers relying on the n word isnt even a real thing.
Click to expand...

it never has made a song but it is crutch for songs and you can hear it through out many albums for no reason whatsoever. it is used more often than needed and if you didn't have that word, you need to do more and Em does that. thats all
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

That's mean.
 
If we are talking technical rap, Em has to be considered one of the GOATs to do it. His actual technique is amazing

But in terms of overall lyrical content and music? There are lots of people on his level.
 
Battling? No fucking doubt Em would eat 99% of the industry.

Music? yea, he was a game changer, one of the best and unique hip hop ever.

Lyrically? yea, one of the best, I'll comfortably call you a hater if you claim to love HipHop and deny this

Currently? his work has been weak overall the past few years. But that doesnt erase his legacy at all

As for HipHop being Black music, it is but not by any law. Like most art forms, its "Black" for cultural and political reasons in the USA. But in reality HipHop goes well with the voiceless, and the oppressed, not a skin color.
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...
No lies detected
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

This is one of the realest posts I've seen in a minute
 
I have more faith in Mac Miller releasing a dope record over Em nowadays. He used to be something special. He would make my top ten, but just barely.
 
Story telling? Enimem couldn't even touch Slick Rick in storytelling and he's been irrelevant since he did that song with Chamillionaire.
 
Disagree, i would not put him in a top 15.

None of his work even approaches Ready to Die, Reasonable Doubt, Paid in Full, Aquemini and plenty of other great albums.

I dont even think he is the best white rap act, nothing he has done is better than Licensed To Ill. But it was not cool to like the Beastie Boys, it was cool to like this depressed dude from Detroit making fun of nsync.
 
I'm waiting for a Em fan to give me a song that's on the level of Suicidal Thoughts.

and please don't say "The Way I Am".
 
It's not only 50 in the game who thinks that.
 
Into said:
Disagree, i would not put him in a top 15.

None of his work even approaches Ready to Die, Reasonable Doubt, Paid in Full, Aquemini and plenty of other great albums.

I dont even think he is the best white rap act, nothing he has done is better than Licensed To Ill. But it was not cool to like the Beastie Boys, it was cool to like this depressed dude from Detroit making fun of nsync.
Click to expand...

Beastie Boyz get next to no respect even though much of their work is critically acclaimed and seen as classics. Sad really.

SSLP is probably the closest Em has been to making a classic album.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Battling? No fucking doubt Em would eat 99% of the industry.

Music? yea, he was a game changer, one of the best and unique hip hop ever.

Lyrically? yea, one of the best, I'll comfortably call you a hater if you claim to love HipHop and deny this

Currently? his work has been weak overall the past few years. But that doesnt erase his legacy at all

As for HipHop being Black music, it is but not by any law. Like most art forms, its "Black" for cultural and political reasons in the USA. But in reality HipHop goes well with the voiceless, and the oppressed, not a skin color.
Click to expand...

The bolded is what takes it for me.

His most famous songs (Lose Your Self, Stan, etc) are great but what really gets me is when he uses some absolutely straight off the wall flow and still delivers it with the same razor sharp technique. Stuff like

Git Up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pJ2waFz-LU

Crazy in Love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbqf1Uv5CQI

Bully:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QbDuzz_N58

I'll hurt you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgEtUuEK-to

Renegade:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0ZuyBSuCjw

Those flows stand out more than his "shock" lyrics. They are certainly not the most Hip-Hop tracks, but that's what I really love about them. The only other rapper I've heard flow like this is Andre 3000 and he's often put on a lot of top 10s.
Kendrick Lamar "i" is also a great example of these unorthodox flows, and he's also regarded as one of the best right now. Eminem did this effortlessly in his prime, so even if you never liked his content or you can name 20 other rappers who can do multi-syllables just as well, at least give him props for his unique approach.
 
Em was one of the best. Now? I don't see how anyone could say that. He really hasn't had a good album since The Eminem Show and while his technical ability is still impressive, he hasn't shown he can make a good album in over 10 years and all of his singles are these motivational "you can do if you try" stuff which is just kind of played out since he's done it so many times.
 
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