Rap is black music, but Eminem does it better than black artists according to 50cent

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PopeReal said:
No one will top De La Soul/Tribe Called Quest/NWA/Public Enemy for me.

I suppose it depends what era you grew up in.
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The 90s was a long time ago. If you've been living under a rock since then, then those people you listed as being the absolute best ends up sounding kind of shortsighted.
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
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that shit that make your soul burn slow
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
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90.gif


I completely agree
 
Piston Hyundai said:
putting queensbridge back on the map is a better narrative than "I'm not handling my success too well"
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So much truth in this post. Beyond Queens, New York hip hop in general was on the decline because of the West Coast. When Illmatic came out, it was a huge fucking deal compared to The Slim Shady LP, which was more of a controversial appeal because folks never heard nothing like it. Beyond that...it's really not touching Illmatic.
 
Slate Soda said:
Illmatic is better than Marshall Mathers LP

It's not.

I'm not white, and I listen to all types of hip-hop. Now, come at me.
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The Chronic is better than either album. So is amerikkka's Most Wanted, Death Certificate, and Ready to Die.
Anyway how can Em be the GOAT when he doesn't even have as many classic albums as Ice Cube?
 
Dereck said:
The 90s was a long time ago. If you've been living under a rock since then, then those people you listed as being the absolute best ends up sounding kind of shortsighted.
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I don't think so at all, especially because those are all legendary acts.

It's the equivalent of saying Zeppelin can't be considered the best rock group because their heyday was in the 70's.

Slate Soda said:
Illmatic is better than Marshall Mathers LP

It's not.

I'm not white, and I listen to all types of hip-hop. Now, come at me.
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never comment on hip hop albums again

MMLP aint even the best Em album
 
joelseph said:
Music is music. Rap is for everyone.
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Everyone can participate but it still nigga music. Look up culture in the dictionary, music is a part of that.

ThisGuy said:
I agree with 50. Eminem suffers from being around too long. Which I think in hip hop hurts more than other genre's.

Being number 1 is always subjective, but Eminem is an amazing artist. That can't be denied, he is also still making good music. Not the caliber of his younger days, but still enjoyable.

And some black people hate it. Lmfao. Reminds me of white people taking away from James Brown and rock n roll. I just laugh at the thinly veiled racism/jealousy.
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What??
 
Eminem was one of my favorites in the early 00s for sure. He had a lot of raw energy which really helped make songs like the way I am and stan resonate more than they normally would

But while I will still say he has two good albums, a good number of those songs aged like shit. Horrorcore rape basura and poop and fart jokes brehs. There's a reason why he's so revered in a forum full of 20 something year olds. We were all in his target market from 8-12 years old back when kim and real slim shady were big

PD killed it yet again
 
Geo said:
http://www.metacritic.com/music/illmatic-xx-20th-anniversary-edition/nas

I know, I know, "critics don't mean anything" and all that stuff.
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I actually hate bringing critics up into anything, because that's what the conversation always boils down to.

But at the same time is there a single artist that is universally considered to be legendary or a pioneer in their respective genre that generally has mixed to negative reviews? Are there any artists that most consider to be trash that get universal acclaim? Think about that for a second.
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
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Masterful post. I haven't listened to an Eminem album for years and I can think of only a couple of songs that I would like to hear again.

While we are at it, can you recommend a few artists/album that you consider to be great ?
I see some names in the post, but not sure if they are what you would consider great or just sarcasm. I personally don't like meaningless music and there is a lot of those around.
 
ThisGuy said:
I agree with 50. Eminem suffers from being around too long. Which I think in hip hop hurts more than other genre's.

Being number 1 is always subjective, but Eminem is an amazing artist. That can't be denied, he is also still making good music. Not the caliber of his younger days, but still enjoyable.

And some black people hate it. Lmfao. Reminds me of white people taking away from James Brown and rock n roll. I just laugh at the thinly veiled racism/jealousy
Click to expand...

do-not-want.gif
 
The Beard said:
Ehh..art is art. In this case one "narrative" isn't better than the other. To me, both were interesting.
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While you could say that the Marshal Mathers LP is a more personal album, I'd argue that what Illmatic did for Queensbridge makes it a much more influential and important album.

I'd also say that it's a better produced and better written album, but that's another story.
 
Isn't it fucking bonkers that Eminem was the best-selling artist of the 2000s. For whatever reason I know that that statistic is true but I wonder what the line looks like. Did it just do gangbusters on Slim Shady (1999) and Marshal Mathers (2000) and Eminem (2002) and then torrents popped off and nobody else sold a single album for the rest of the decade? Encore did alright but nothing like those others.

Onemic said:
It's a "feeling"
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maybe
 
I mean, rock was black music too, but 4 pasty white British dudes did it better than anyone else. No one can touch black R&B singers though, especially the women.
 
PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

Damn
 
RP912 said:
So much truth in this post. Beyond Queens, New York hip hop in general was on the decline because of the West Coast. When Illmatic came out, it was a huge fucking deal compared to The Slim Shady LP, which was more of a controversial appeal because folks never heard nothing like it. Beyond that...it's really not touching Illmatic.
Click to expand...

If you ask randoms (non-hip hop fans) what is Illmatic, nobody will know. I'd even say they probably haven't even heard of Nas. Slim Shady, on the other hand...

Illmatic may have had a huge impact on hip hop/black communities, but SSLP impacted the entire music industry and pop culture. Micro vs. macro.

Denying this is fooling yourself.

PhoenixDark said:
If you're familiar with 50 Cent on even the most basic level you recognize that he is a troll instigator and also views everything through the lens of money and/or success. His shots at Jay-Z in that video expose what his agenda was. He's bigging up his man, I get it. But he's also conflating success with being "the best."

What is Eminem the best at? He was once a great technical rapper but his style is largely mined from Masta Ace and G Rap. Is anyone going to seriously argue Eminem is a better rapper than G Rap? Go ahead so I can laugh at you. 50 is from Queens, he knows better.

Let's look at albums. Does Eminem have a classic album? And if so does he have one that stands up well against the best work of just about any rapper who is considered great? I'm sure there are some 20 year old white people on this forum who would love to wax poetic about why the Marshall Mathers LP is superior to Illmatic or Ready To Die but people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

What about lyrics. Are his similes, methaphors, or storytelling comparable to the greats? Again I'm sure someone here will argue Eminem has surpassed Nas on each of these levels but once again, people who actually listen to hip hop know better.

If Eminem wins any contest it would be the "90s rapper who fell off the hardest" award, and even then he might just share the trophy with DMX (or Prodigy...). Listen to his music today. Yelly, off beat, lyrically embarrassing. He's so obsessed with the the technical aspect of his flow that the beat and tone of the record don't matter to him. It's like listening to someone try to cram a dictionary into a 10 page picture book; after all, what better analogy is there for the cookie cutter production he selects than a picture book.

I really liked Eminem when I was a kid in 1999. But the idea of listening to a man in his 40s rap about raping celebs, pooping on people, etc in 2015 has no appeal to me. Nor do his meaningless, generic "if you work hard you can achieve it" anthems move me. Dude is trash today, admit it and grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...

Don't really have time to write an elaborate counter, but sounds like you are cherrypicking your arguments, as if Eminem only wrote about now washed up celebrities, etc. Look we get it, you don't like Eminem (you've made that clear in other threads as well). Belittling his achievements, (obvious) talent and impact on pop culture won't change the fact that he will sell out any stadium he goes to until he passes away. Saying Eminem doesn't have a classic album, come on bruh. You should know better.
 
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