Nice! It can give a reason to the whole body double thing... the only way to defeat Skullface is to "use" BB legendary status.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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TFRazorsaw
Banned
Look at the spoiled timeline guys. Big Boss is still the guy in charge, you still deal with him in MG2. Big Boss still fell from grace, and he's "killed" in Zanzibarland. All this ultimately does is explain how Big Boss came back from the dead in MG2; in that he doesn't.
Big Boss is still 100 % responsible for the shit he did.
Big Boss is still 100 % responsible for the shit he did.
Self_Destructive
Member
Would like a PM as well plz thx
FleckSplat
Member
Hey, I'd like a PM as well. Thanks.
I'll take a pm if you get a sec!
Snake technically had his own mission and yes he definitely used Raiden at times but it all comes full circle and he gives Raiden probably the best advice......Which was totally disregarded in MGS4 loll.
SkylineRKR
Member
Snake took out guys before Raiden came on the scene. He sniped the fuck out of soldiers, much better than Raiden did. He also diffused bombs on the other side of the big shell.
Snake did his share of work in MGS2.
The Silver
Member
how about you just keep going through my post history? You already found 2 posts with me talking about it that very thing.
sorry about your little failed attempt to try and paint me as some hypocrite, take it to PMs if you wanna continue, I hate that cowardly looking through post history shit.
Sumio Mondo
Member
It's another case of Kojima writing himself into a corner trying to make MGS4 fit in with the events of Metal Gear 1 (Outer Heaven) and Metal Gear 2 (Zanzibar Land Incident) with MGS5, events which were frequently referenced in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 by many characters. Kojima always seems to write himself into these extremely tight situations and it's interesting to see how he tried to make a compromise with previous MG games just so that they can all fit together. I thought he would retcon MGS4 in some ways, it was inevitable really after that game was already retconning stuff from previous games. But like I said earlier, I think it's best if people see the story in context rather than shitting on it just yet.
If anything, it's actually relieving for me to hear him not just ignore the events of MG1 and MG2 outright and try to make them fit in to the canon after how much certain other games botched it (Portable Ops, parts of MGS4, MGS Database). I was honestly surprised to see him try to fit MGS2 story being referenced with the Emmerich family still being fucked up and Kojima not ignoring that part of the MGS2 plot.
I think it's best for all parties involved, (for Kojima and for the fans both), that this is the final Metal Gear, at least for the canon, since it's become so bloated now that it's high time for Kojima to do something new and for Konami to reboot it in the future, if they do decide to do another. It's pretty obvious now that Kojima's greatest strength as a writer was always creating new stories and new concepts, never as a writer for a long running series. He just can't crack it and doesn't like answering questions.
Must be the same address like last time i presume.
Exactly, wasn't it Kaz and Ocelot who created Venom while Big Boss was recovering in hospital? Just because Big Biss didn't step in and stop Venom it makes him evil? No it doesn't. Big Boss sends Venom a tape telling him the truth because as the guide says Big Boss is consumed with guilt because he had a hand in MB's destruction. Evil people don't experience guilt, just ask my dad.
Which site you streaming on? Can we not do it private?
So you got nothing. All you basically say is "MGS4 explains everything of MGS2 with science and nanomachines".
I just conceded that it DID explain Vamp's fast-healing abilities with nanomachines. But what else? You seem to know about more instances where this happened. Don't chicken out now.
Freewheelin'
Member
Link m8?
What makes this most sour is how obvious it is that Kojima is just making shit up as he goes a long and that none of this was his original intent.
I don't think the events of MGS3 were in his mind back in the 80's, but that game's story still felt legitimate and added to the mythos. This does none of that.
I don't think the events of MGS3 were in his mind back in the 80's, but that game's story still felt legitimate and added to the mythos. This does none of that.
Exactly. Honestly nothing REALLY changes. I can understand being upset you don't play as BB but to say the story is ruined? No.
I dunno it adds to the mythos that Big Boss is a huuuuge dick and deserved to die multiple times.
True, but he still used Raiden and Raiden killed soldiers, probably women and children when Arsenal Gear crashed. Just the same as Venom.
I don't think Ishmael is the one who clears the infected MB. Its Ahab "BB"
shocky2002
Neo Member
No it didn't. Big Boss is just too nice, too perfect of a character.
This is exactly how Peace Walker ruined The Boss, and TPP will ruin Big Boss the exact same way.
it's a shame because this twist could've been done well had it established BB as a true villain, but it doesn't because he's simply a hack that doesn't know how to write a compelling story to support it.
Guys, the Metal Gear plotline is trash, and it always has been. It's always been stupid and blatantly made up on the hoof.
While I'm one to enjoy a good meltdown, the gameplay itself looks fun as fork. That's the better reason to play these games over any other excuse. It's legit time to let go of the plot ever making sense / being any good whatsoever.
While I'm one to enjoy a good meltdown, the gameplay itself looks fun as fork. That's the better reason to play these games over any other excuse. It's legit time to let go of the plot ever making sense / being any good whatsoever.
MGS1 is almost a direct retelling of MG2.
After MGS2 Kojima pretty much went into autopilot because the fans needed everything explained.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Kojima has said he's making it up as he goes along as far back as MGS3 interviews. As time has gone by he's gotten worse at keeping the canon consistent. I'm personally shocked to see him try not to completely retcon Portable Ops out of existence considering how much that messed with the Metal Gear timeline for a very important character (Gray Fox) and retconned character motivations (Volgin) and brought people back from the dead unnecessarily (Sokolov). Portable Ops just doesn't seem to fit in with the events of Peace Walker and MGS5 at all.
MGS3 is basically a direct retelling of MGS1 too, LOL.
shocky2002
Neo Member
It was never trash before MGS4.
PM please as well. Thanks.
It was never trash at all.
unknownhero
Member
would love a link via pm
Sumio Mondo
Member
Kojima enjoys "cycles" as a storytelling concept - since MGS2 was supposed to be a retelling of both MG2 (Solid Snake vs Big Boss/Raiden vs Solidus Snake - the prodigal father/son relationship) and MGS1 (S3 Plan).
Sigismundo
Member
He's said in a recent interview PO isn't canon and the timeline Konami made doesn't have it.
GTFO dude. Seriously?
KOMANI
KOMANI
At this point, he should just make a thread when he's streaming
IMO the overarching story is good and each game has themes and very heartfelt moments. I love the characters.
But yes any story about a a guy running on water, HUGE mechs, a guy who can talk to the dead and a guy who literally takes on the personality of someone else is a bit silly.
Nah lol, I had the idea of PM to stop non GAF members from shutting the stream down. But yeah, no PM as of yet. If you don't mind me asking, who's that in your profile pic?
The Silver
Member
He said when asked about its status that a lot of details aren't "canon" but BB did have a side adventure during that time.
Seriously bruv <3
Debatable, but I can see what you mean.
MGS4 was definitely on another level.
SkylineRKR
Member
btw, The Man who sold the World is a solid choice I think.
The song is about someone who suffers an identity crisis or hates himself.
I also like Elegia - New Order
The song is about someone who suffers an identity crisis or hates himself.
I also like Elegia - New Order
Kojima has stated PO isn't really that canon to the series. I do think some of the events in PO can be canon but the game itself isn't included in the official timeline
Yeah, seriously!
I think this games story will be trash though, shame because I play MGS for story as well as the gameplay. I'm seriously hoping I will enjoy the story though but obviously after today I have my reservations.Well i can see why you would want an idol to remain ideal in your mind. Fact of the matter is though he has become less of a nice guy since Ground zeros. One can be too much of a fan just like Zero is a way to much in love with Big Boss. You can still see him as the nice guy if you want to ignore all that though nothing stopping you from believing what you believe.
Foxtastical
Member
Also, kinda crazy to not get more about Grayfox.
shocky2002
Neo Member
No, not debatable. MGS1-3's, especially MGS2's, stories were never trash at all.
Sumio Mondo
Member
MGS1-3 were surprisingly consistent canonical storylines considering what came later with Portable Ops, MGS4, Peace Walker and now MGS5.
It's pretty obvious PO pissed him off, since he didn't write it and didn't like what that writer did. It's just interesting that as a writer, he still felt he didn't need to touch upon any of the events in PO except as a "fuck you" from Miller at the start of PW. You would think a master of retconning like Kojima would want to retcon that game all over the damn place. lol.
It's pretty obvious PO pissed him off, since he didn't write it and didn't like what that writer did. It's just interesting that as a writer, he still felt he didn't need to touch upon any of the events in PO except as a "fuck you" from Miller at the start of PW. You would think a master of retconning like Kojima would want to retcon that game all over the damn place. lol.
Being included or not in timelines doesn't mean much. Word of god from Kojima himself says that the main events of Portable Ops are canon, but that some details may not be as they may contradict other games in the series.
That's from Kojima himself.
So we, as fans, can assume that all events in Portable Ops, as long as they don't contradict something else, are canon.
Hurricane43
Member
The fact we're having this discussion to begin with already makes it debatable brother.
Yeah, seriously!
You're gonna play MGSV and you're gonna love how it plays and the options available to you, as well as the attention to detail. (I hope!).
Ignore the silly plot yourself and watch as people who take it way too seriously piece apart every line of dialogue and every possible metaphor to justify that the plot isn't bad and Kojima is a legit storytelling genius.
Also:
Absolute gold.
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