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[JKTrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHgWHZcR2dc

Who wants to watch mission 1 for the 23rd time today?

I caught this JUST before Konami nuked it. Skipped ahead a bit to see him messing around on Mother Base and caught an easter egg as he started tranquing Ocelot. On the first shot, Ocelot says "That won't work on me, I've had drug resistance training"...but he starts to slur the sentence before the end.
(Screenshot) http://www.img42.com/7ODHA+

He shoots Ocelot again, and Ocelot starts mumbling "La li lu le lo, la li lu le lo". There were no subtitles for this.

 

[Venom Fox]

I didn't catch these earlier from page 88.



Glad that Zero is featured like this in the game. These make perfect sense.

Eva in MGS4 states that the legend of Big Boss as a mercenary was muddled with lies and exaggerations. Ocelot plainly states "You're a legend in the eyes of those on the battlefield. Let the legend come back to life." Well we now know he wasn't just blowing smoke up BB's ass, he was being quite literal. Zero wanted to elevate the name of Big Boss, even after their schism.

This also shows that Zero was not a truly evil man, at least not any moreso than Big Boss. The idea of the Patriots painted as a wicked, destructive force in MGS4 was jarring after they make a decent case for themselves in MGS2. Big Boss and Zero simply lost control of their ambitions, sparking a chain of events that led to many conflicts.

The thing is, multiple sources said that it was zero who sent quiet and the soldiers to attack the hospital, while Skullface sent Mantis and Volgin to kill Big Boss. Thabto's source directly contradicts that.

 

[thabtoUK]

Started another playthrough? Because Quiet leaves MB before you unlock mission 46. The part where metal gear is on MB happens before the ending obviously because you destroy it in the last story mission. Your source is full of shit. Wouldn't surprise me if that motorbike scene was a cutscene from earlier on and he's making the story stuff up.

Have you shown a mod proof of your source?

That's actually my fault; the source has confirmed that they are not giving me images that necessarily show their progress through the game, just that they have played parts haven't been seen before.

This is an earlier scene, the bike scene is a lot later in the game ;-)

 

[Roxas]

From listening to the latest Giant Bombcast, Jason made the point that he noticed there being "two different Big Bosses", it's crazy and quite sad that he is actually closer to the truth than he realises. I'm really interested in seeing how Dan Ryckert reacts to the fact that you're not actually playing as the real Big Boss.

I'm sure during one of the more recent Metal Gear Scanlons (think it was the last one where they go through TPP trailers), Dan picks up on there possibly being more than one Snake.

I still can't believe this is how Kojima decided to go out. It all sounds like some real bad fan fiction or something.

 

[KOMANI]

This Kind of makes Solid Snake more of a bad ass, doesn't it? Big Faux, Big Boss, Gray Fox, Liquid, Liquid Ocelot. That's a pretty good resume.

 

[packy34]

There are worse entries than the others, MGS4 for example had the worst story line imo.

MGS1 was great, MGS2 had some really bad moments and plot lines, but some awesome moments as well as some thoughtful ideas, MGS3 was pretty straightforward and I found it to be the best overall.

Let's put it this way, would you say MGS5 plot is bad like MGS4 levels or at least it's better than that?

I personally don't think it's bad at all. It's just not what people expected and it's making everyone salty.

 

[Venom Fox]

This is very early you can see big boss horn is small.

Exactly, his source is just throwing pictures at him and making shit up. I'm not believing anything until I see it with my own eyes. What also gets me is how his source is either a press member or someone from Konami. That's fucked up, why risk your job when your not even getting credit for it?

 

[Gbraga]

Exactly, his source is just throwing pictures at him and making shit up. I'm not believing anything until I see it with my own eyes.

I can confirm that the spoilers are real.

So watch out if you don't want to have the story ruined for you and leave this thread.

.

 

[SictorVullivan]

I'm sure during one of the more recent Metal Gear Scanlons (think it was the last one where they go through TPP trailers), Dan picks up on there possibly being more than one Snake.

I still can't believe this is how Kojima decided to go out. It all sounds like some real bad fan fiction or something.

Now that you say that, I do remember him saying that.

And yes it does sound like a bad fan fiction, really hope the Giant Bomb crew share the similar sentiment that this thread has.

 

[KOMANI]

The thing is, multiple sources said that it was zero who sent quiet and the soldiers to attack the hospital, while Skullface sent Mantis and Volgin to kill Big Boss. Thabto's source directly contradicts that.

Come on Venom, you've been here long enough to know that's not the case... Mantis, Volgin, and Quiet are all working for Zero to help elevate Ahab to Big Boss status, Skull Face and XoF are the only ones on the attack.

 

[Forkball]

Have we learned how the horn grows? Is it purely a visual metaphor or is there some literal reasoning behind it?

 

[packy34]

Started another playthrough? Because Quiet leaves MB before you unlock mission 46. The part where metal gear is on MB happens before the ending obviously because you destroy it in the last story mission. Your source is full of shit. Wouldn't surprise me if that motorbike scene was a cutscene from earlier on and he's making the story stuff up.

Have you shown a mod proof of your source?

People are still in denial?

 

[Palette Swap]

Hooray, game dispatched. I knew I made the right call to switch to that Belgian online retailer.

 

[SictorVullivan]

Have we learned how the horn grows? Is it purely a visual metaphor or is there some literal reasoning behind it?

I think it's shrapnel from the helicopter crash slowly making it's way out? And obviously being a visual metaphor at the same time.

What I really don't understand is that apparently Kid Mantis has a horn as well (according to some people).

 

[Venom Fox]

Come on Venom, you've been here long enough to know that's not the case... Mantis, Volgin, and Quiet are all working for Zero to help elevate Ahab to Big Boss status, Skull Face and XoF are the only ones on the attack.

What? Doesn't Skullface get the parasite from Codetalker? Didn't Codetalker create the parasite? He did which means it's probable that Skullface originally got kept alive when burned only because Codetalker gave him the parasite. The same parasite he used on Quiet and uses on Zero as well as his skulls unit? Them soldiers aren't Skullfaces, the XOF unit is Zero's, Skullface was just in command of that unit. Someone already confirmed this in the community thread ages ago when they found XOF soldiers in Peace Walker.

It was Zero who attacked the hospital.

 

[Venom Fox]

People are still in denial?

Are you gonna add to the discussion instead of being off topic? If not I'll PM a mod, why comment unless your discussing it?

 

[News Bot]

It was a lie, yes, but one that provided the game's structure and twist, so it's well-trodden ground for the series.

It didn't though, at all. The structure and twist was provided by the real S3 Plan, which had nothing to do with turning anyone into Solid Snake. That was specific to Raiden and it was nothing more than a proof-of-concept to show that they could apply the Plan to the entire population. Ocelot was fed a false tale.

And even if it were all about recreating Solid Snake (or Big Boss) as anyone else, it didn't involve ridiculously perfect and convenient facial surgery or memory loss. Then the fact that Big Boss is who he is and bested The Boss and Gene because he is genetically predisposed to being an amazing soldier, thanks to his "soldier genes."

You can argue that one of the series' themes is "breaking the bondage of genes" but it also makes it clear that you can't escape them either.

It's hard to stomach just how contrived it is.

Someone already confirmed this in the community thread ages ago when they found XOF soldiers in Peace Walker.

Please elaborate.

 

[Forkball]

Are you gonna add to the discussion instead of being off topic? If not I'll PM a mod, why comment unless your discussing it?

What is your exact reasoning for not believing the leak with pictures?

 

[KOMANI]

It was Zero who attacked the hospital.

Noooo... It was Skullface. Those are XOF soldiers in the hospital.
By your Logic, Zero sends everyone in the hospital? Quiet? Mantis? XoF soldiers? That makes no sense.
Skullface is in charge of XOF in GZ. Their mission is to kill Zero and Big Boss.... How does this change by Phantom Pain. C'mon dude.

 

[Sub_Level]

or memory loss.

I agree with your post that there is a distinction between S3 and whatever the hell is going on in Phantom Pain but there actually was memory loss applied to Raiden. He had surgical neural implants that clouded them (along with his own personality shunning his past)

Venom Snake seems like a combo of S3 plan mixed with Oceliquid's Doppelganger Effect. It retroactively makes Oceliquid a little easier to swallow since there is now chronological series precedence for it.

 

[Venom Fox]

Please elaborate.

There are XOF soldiers in Peace Walker, they are only seen in one mission. Go and ask in the community thread there's members there who will know more.

 

[Shauni]

Are you gonna add to the discussion instead of being off topic? If not I'll PM a mod, why comment unless your discussing it?

You're being awfully defensive.

 

[Venom Fox]

What is your exact reasoning for not believing the leak with pictures?

Read my posts from about ten pages back. I seriously cannot be bothered explaining over and over. Basically some of the stuff mentioned doesn't make sense and contradicts itself.

Noooo... It was Skullface. Those are XOF soldiers in the hospital.

XOF is Ciphers unit though. So if the XOF unit was Skullfaces, who was Quiet, Mantis and Volgin sent by? It doesn't make sense to be Skullface as you said before because in the hospital they fight each other, if they were the same team why would they fight?

You're being awfully defensive.

Defensive of what? I'm just saying, there's a few of us that don't believe the new leaks that Thabto posted and people keep coming in here and saying dumb things like "people are still in denial", like what the fuck does that add to the discussion?

 

[KOMANI]

XOF is Ciphers unit though. So if the XOF unit was Skullfaces, who was Quiet, Mantis and Volgin sent by? It doesn't make sense to be Skullface as you said before because in the hospital they fight each other, if they were the same team why would they fight?

Right... Because XOF DOESNT BELONG TO CIPHER ANYMORE. Their mission in GZ is the elimination of Zero and Big Boss... Why would Zero have a troop whose main objective is to see him dead ?

 

[News Bot]

I agree with your post that there is a distinction between S3 and whatever the hell is going on in Phantom Pain but there actually was memory loss applied to Raiden. He had surgical neural implants that clouded them (along with his own personality shunning his past)

Venom Snake seems like a combo of S3 plan mixed with Oceliquid's Doppelganger Effect. It retroactively makes Oceliquid a little easier to swallow since there is now chronological series precedence for it.

Sure but I was referring to the "oops I hit my head" type of memory loss rather than targeted. It's utterly contrived that the one person they choose as a body double also happens to look and sound exactly like Big Boss and be one of his most trusted men, yet we've never seen or heard of him before.

Does Venom Snake even receive facial surgery? It seems utterly ridiculous that he'd get a near-perfect reconstruction of Big Boss only to be told later on after never using this face once that they need to make him not look like Big Boss. What the fuck.

It really does just feel like a cheap twist added solely for shock factor. It doesn't explain anything or advance the mythology in any way. It's hackneyed and perfunctory. Kojima needed to retcon most of his games to make it happen at all.

 

[vano89]

Read my posts from about ten pages back. I seriously cannot be bothered explaining over and over. Basically some of the stuff mentioned doesn't make sense and contradicts itself.

XOF is Ciphers unit though. So if the XOF unit was Skullfaces, who was Quiet, Mantis and Volgin sent by? It doesn't make sense to be Skullface as you said before because in the hospital they fight each other, if they were the same team why would they fight?

Defensive of what? I'm just saying, there's a few of us that don't believe the new leaks that Thabto posted and people keep coming in here and saying dumb things like "people are still in denial", like what the fuck does that add to the discussion?

Quiet and Mantis are sent by Zero to "help" Phantom to become BB... to convince him somehow.
BTW Volgin is not "sent" by anyone, it's just a Mantis weapon it seems, that can still gain some control over Mantis from time to time (in fact he tries to kill BB even in the prologue)

 

[maxcriden]

It didn't though, at all. The structure and twist was provided by the real S3 Plan, which had nothing to do with turning anyone into Solid Snake. That was specific to Raiden and it was nothing more than a proof-of-concept to show that they could apply the Plan to the entire population. Ocelot was fed a false tale.

And even if it were all about recreating Solid Snake (or Big Boss) as anyone else, it didn't involve ridiculously perfect and convenient facial surgery or memory loss. Then the fact that Big Boss is who he is and bested The Boss and Gene because he is genetically predisposed to being an amazing soldier, thanks to his "soldier genes."

You can argue that one of the series' themes is "breaking the bondage of genes" but it also makes it clear that you can't escape them either.

It's hard to stomach just how contrived it is.

Sure but I was referring to the "oops I hit my head" type of memory loss rather than targeted. It's utterly contrived that the one person they choose as a body double also happens to look and sound exactly like Big Boss and be one of his most trusted men, yet we've never seen or heard of him before.

It really does just feel like a cheap twist added solely for shock factor. It doesn't explain anything or advance the mythology in any way. It's hackneyed and perfunctory. Kojima needed to retcon most of his games to make it happen at all.

Let me rephrase. I think we agree that the MGS2 story >>>> MGSV story (from what I've read of it, at least). The faux S3 plan, I suppose we can agree to disagree on. I contend that despite there being a twist revealing what the real S3 plan is, the faux-S3 plan still directs much of the structure of the game as it appears to the player. You're acting as a pseudo-Solid Snake throughout. The twist(s) is (are) much more elegantly revealed, though.

 

[packy34]

Are you gonna add to the discussion instead of being off topic? If not I'll PM a mod, why comment unless your discussing it?

You'll "PM a mod"? Would that make you feel better? Jesus, you're easily agitated. I think there's more than enough evidence in this thread to confirm what's being said and there's absolutely nothing - and no one (who's actually played the game) - disputing it. Just because you don't like what's being said doesn't mean it isn't real.

 

[News Bot]

Let me rephrase. I think we agree that the MGS2 story >>>> MGSV story (from what I've read of it, at least). The faux S3 plan, I suppose we can agree to disagree on. I contend that despite there being a twist revealing what the real S3 plan is, the faux-S3 plan still directs much of the structure of the game as it appears to the player. You're acting as a pseudo-Solid Snake throughout. The twist(s) is (are) much more elegantly revealed, though.

The faux plan has literally no relevance to the plot of MGS2 other than as a fake-out. There was no intention to recreate Solid Snake. They merely used Raiden as a test subject for the concept of feeding people a scenario and having them believe it and act accordingly. They used Shadow Moses as an example because if they could make someone believe in a scenario like that, imagine what they could do on a "normal" scale.

There was no intention to make Solid Snake-tier soldiers. And this is ignoring the fact that the S3 Plan was a recent idea in MGS2, not something that had been perfectly perpetrated already. If recreating Big Boss was a precursor, then there was no point in the S3 Plan at all because The Patriots had already succeeded. There was no need for an experiment because they already had ample data from a superior model.

The purpose of the S3 Plan was simply to "create context." By doing that, they control the will of the people and thus become capable of directing human evolution as they see fit.

 

[MMaRsu]

Wow so many spoilers in this thread. Jeez

Discussing the latest trailers or footage is all spoilery stuff for me.

Want to be surprised as much thats still possible


Fuuuck wrong thread

 

[maxcriden]

The faux plan has literally no relevance to the plot of MGS2 other than as a fake-out. There was no intention to recreate Solid Snake. They merely used Raiden as a test subject for the concept of feeding people a scenario and having them believe it and act accordingly. They used Shadow Moses as an example because if they could make someone believe in a scenario like that, imagine what they could do on a "normal" scale.

There was no intention to make Solid Snake-tier soldiers. And this is ignoring the fact that the S3 Plan was a recent idea in MGS2, not something that had been perfectly perpetrated already. If recreating Big Boss was a precursor, then there was no point in the S3 Plan at all because The Patriots had already succeeded. There was no need for an experiment because they already had ample data from a superior model.

The purpose of the S3 Plan was simply to "create context." By doing that, they control the will of the people and thus become capable of directing human evolution as they see fit.

I don't disagree with any of what you said. I just think the similarities in structure between MGS and MGS2 were a more elegant way (even with the faux-S3 reveal) to have a faux-protag fakeout than seems to be done in MGSV.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Sim...Solid_and_Metal_Gear_Solid_2:_Sons_of_Liberty

 

[Sub_Level]

Sure but I was referring to the "oops I hit my head" type of memory loss rather than targeted. It's utterly contrived that the one person they choose as a body double also happens to look and sound exactly like Big Boss and be one of his most trusted men, yet we've never seen or heard of him before.

Does Venom Snake even receive facial surgery? It seems utterly ridiculous that he'd get a near-perfect reconstruction of Big Boss only to be told later on after never using this face once that they need to make him not look like Big Boss. What the fuck.

It really does just feel like a cheap twist added solely for shock factor. It doesn't explain anything or advance the mythology in any way. It's hackneyed and perfunctory. Kojima needed to retcon most of his games to make it happen at all.

I'm inclined to agree with you that it's silly but we'll have to wait for the full game to see how its presented. There's a difference between a few lines of spoilers and a game built around ideas. We can possibly see a fuller context that better justifies it.

I love it regardless because I did not initially want MGSV to be another Big Boss game. Years ago when Kojima said he "wasn't done with Solid Snake", I was hopeful we'd receive a SS game >_>

 

[News Bot]

I don't disagree with any of what you said. I just think the similarities in structure between MGS and MGS2 were a more elegant way (even with the faux-S3 reveal) to have a faux-protag fakeout than seems to be done in MGSV.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Sim...Solid_and_Metal_Gear_Solid_2:_Sons_of_Liberty

I agree. The similarities serve a dual purpose in and out of the game universe. Within, it serves as a truly difficult case study, the success of which would unquestionably confirm the viability of the S3 Plan. Without, Kojima has always had a habit of repetition. MGS1 was basically a 3D remake of MG2.

And if you take it as "VR Canon", Ghost Babel's purpose was to digitally create a scenario similar to Outer Heaven for an identical purpose, but Shadow Moses trumped it in terms of scope and scale so it took precedence for the S3 Plan. To prove that both fictional and real scenarios were viable.

 

[Venom Fox]

Quiet and Mantis are sent by Zero to "help" Phantom to become BB... to convince him somehow.
BTW Volgin is not "sent" by anyone, it's just a Mantis weapon it seems, that can still gain some control over Mantis from time to time (in fact he tries to kill BB even in the prologue)

Quiet tries to kill Venom and Ishmael, so by your logic killing them is saving them? lol. Your right about Volgin though!

Right... Because XOF DOESNT BELONG TO CIPHER ANYMORE. Their mission in GZ is the elimination of Zero and Big Boss... Why would Zero have a troop whose main objective is to see him dead ?

Still, doesn't make sense as to who sent Quiet, Mantis and Volgin the weapon?

You'll "PM a mod"? Would that make you feel better? Jesus, you're easily agitated. I think there's more than enough evidence in this thread to confirm what's being said and there's absolutely nothing - and no one (who's actually played the game) - disputing it. Just because you don't like what's being said doesn't mean it isn't real.

You clearly have the reading comprehension of a five year old or have schizophrenia because I didn't say I'd PM a mod over the discussion of whether or not the leaks are true lol. I said I'd PM a mod because you just sit there and gloat with your stupid drive by posts.

Anyway I said the pics obviously have to be real, doesn't mean that the story info provided from the source has to be legit. Half of the stuff mentioned contradicts other stuff.

 

[maxcriden]

I agree. The similarities serve a dual purpose in and out of the game universe. Within, it serves as a truly difficult case study, the success of which would unquestionably confirm the viability of the S3 Plan. Without, Kojima has always had a habit of repetition. MGS1 was basically a 3D remake of MG2.

And if you take it as "VR Canon", Ghost Babel's purpose was to digitally create a scenario similar to Outer Heaven for an identical purpose, but Shadow Moses trumped it in terms of scope and scale so it took precedence for the S3 Plan..

I don't know too much about Ghost Babel, but I think I understand. Regardless, as you said, I think we are in agreement. It's too bad MGSV seems to have gone way through the looking glass in terms of repetition and twists.

 

[Salaadin]

The faux plan has literally no relevance to the plot of MGS2 other than as a fake-out. There was no intention to recreate Solid Snake. They merely used Raiden as a test subject for the concept of feeding people a scenario and having them believe it and act accordingly. They used Shadow Moses as an example because if they could make someone believe in a scenario like that, imagine what they could do on a "normal" scale.

There was no intention to make Solid Snake-tier soldiers. And this is ignoring the fact that the S3 Plan was a recent idea in MGS2, not something that had been perfectly perpetrated already. If recreating Big Boss was a precursor, then there was no point in the S3 Plan at all because The Patriots had already succeeded. There was no need for an experiment because they already had ample data from a superior model.

The purpose of the S3 Plan was simply to "create context." By doing that, they control the will of the people and thus become capable of directing human evolution as they see fit.

I wouldn't exactly call venom snake a success if we assume that he rebels and it's eventually ordered to be killed by big boss. Obviously, I'm assuming a lot of things here because I still need context

 

[Rogan]

Why is there no |OT| topic?

 

[unknownhero]

Why is there no |OT| topic?

they don't appear until the day before launch I beleive

 

[SictorVullivan]

Quiet tries to kill Venom and Ishmael, so by your logic killing them is saving them? lol. Your right about Volgin though!

Of all the story stuff (excluding the stupid faux Big Boss and faux Big Boss MG1 retcon) this perplexes me the most.

Quiet is clearly attempting to kill Venom Snake (who she thinks is Big Boss) in the prologue, if the real Big Boss were not there she would have succeeded.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

You clearly have the reading comprehension of a five year old or have schizophrenia because I didn't say I'd PM a mod over the discussion of whether or not the leaks are true lol. I said I'd PM a mod because you just sit there and gloat with your stupid drive by posts.

Yes, let's insult other posters, that always ends well for people yeah?

 

[786110]

So I guess https://www.reddit.com/user/BigMGSfan has mostly been vindicated, which could mean at some point we fight Big Boss and play as him as he builds Outer Heaven or something along those lines

 

[Ralemont]

I didn't catch these earlier from page 88.



Glad that Zero is featured like this in the game. These make perfect sense.

Eva in MGS4 states that the legend of Big Boss as a mercenary was muddled with lies and exaggerations. Ocelot plainly states "You're a legend in the eyes of those on the battlefield. Let the legend come back to life." Well we now know he wasn't just blowing smoke up BB's ass, he was being quite literal. Zero wanted to elevate the name of Big Boss, even after their schism.

This also shows that Zero was not a truly evil man, at least not any moreso than Big Boss. The idea of the Patriots painted as a wicked, destructive force in MGS4 was jarring after they make a decent case for themselves in MGS2. Big Boss and Zero simply lost control of their ambitions, sparking a chain of events that led to many conflicts.

Yep, I thought of that Ocelot line, as well. The lines describing Skullface in the Elegia trailer also fit well with Venom.

I like the idea of this because it makes both Zero and BB a little more gray. Zero still has a soft spot for BB, and BB does exactly what the Patriots did in MGS2 to his own soldier in order to filter and manipulate the "flow of information," in this case regarding Big Boss the Legend.

It also isn't a retread of MGS2 in my mind for two reasons: 1. How it affects our perception of BB as described above, and 2. The S3 plan was very specifically a test about about controlling the flow of information in the digital age.

 

[News Bot]

I wouldn't exactly call venom snake a success if we assume that he rebels and it's eventually ordered to be killed by big boss. Obviously, I'm assuming a lot of things here because I still need context

It's not made clear whether he rebels or not in these spoilers. Not that it really matters, both outcomes are utterly moronic. I've pointed out the fallacy in the real Big Boss sending Solid Snake to kill him. It makes no sense in any way, shape or form.

We still don't know who really created Outer Heaven. Big Boss? Faux Boss? Both? For a game that was all-fucking-about Outer Heaven it failed and I still find it utterly incomprehensible that Big Boss has managed to form so many armies that end up butchered. His "legend" amounts to everyone under his command getting killed.

Portable Ops handled Big Boss as a military leader so much better. Peace Walker was him getting into the groove of leadership. We've received none of that since, V's contribution is just "he's a bit of an asshole" which we knew already, and it fails to show us how he became that asshole, because all of the asshole actions are perpetrated by an evil twin. Creating that evil twin in the first place is simply not enough.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

So from the leaked infos, Ahab is the one sinking to the abyss creating all this madness later than Solid Snake faced. Does that mean the Big Boss we saw dying in 2014 in MGS4 is Ahab and Not Big Boss and Big Boss is still alive ? Oh Kojima, you will neevr let Big Boss die don't you?

 

[packy34]

You clearly have the reading comprehension of a five year old or have schizophrenia because I didn't say I'd PM a mod over the discussion of whether or not the leaks are true lol. I said I'd PM a mod because you just sit there and gloat with your stupid drive by posts.

It was a direct reply to you continuously denying pretty compelling evidence everywhere in this thread - not a drive-by post. At least I didn't stoop so low as you just did and needlessly fling insults.

 

[SictorVullivan]

So from the leaked infos, Ahab is the one sinking to the abyss creating all this madness later than Solid Snake faced. Does that mean the Big Boss we saw dying in 2014 in MGS4 is Ahab and Not Big Boss and Big Boss is still alive ? Oh Kojima, you will neevr let Big Boss die don't you?

I swear if the MGS4 Big Boss turns out to be the imposter Big Boss, then it would be even worse than I had imagined.

 

[Salaadin]

It's not made clear whether he rebels or not in these spoilers. Not that it really matters, both outcomes are utterly moronic. I've pointed out the fallacy in the real Big Boss sending Solid Snake to kill him. It makes no sense in any way, shape or form.

We still don't know who really created Outer Heaven. Big Boss? Faux Boss? Both? For a game that was all-fucking-about Outer Heaven it failed and I still find it utterly incomprehensible that Big Boss has managed to form so many armies that end up butchered. His "legend" amounts to everyone under his command getting killed.

I won't disagree with anything you said but I don't think you can say "it's not made clear" about anything right now when virtually nothing is clear right now aside from a few out of context sentences from a third party.

Fwiw, I like the venom snake idea. I'm not sure if I like him running outer heaven in mg1. I think we need a updated mgs encyclopedia more than anything now.

 

[News Bot]

Fwiw, I like the venom snake idea. I'm not sure if I like him running outer heaven in mg1. I think we need a updated mgs encyclopedia more than anything now.

An encyclopaedia for this series is pointless because it lacks any form of consistency. It would be very disjointed and amount to nonsensical rambling. The MGS4 Database was already awful, it only goes downhill from there.

 

[Forkball]

So from the leaked infos, Ahab is the one sinking to the abyss creating all this madness later than Solid Snake faced. Does that mean the Big Boss we saw dying in 2014 in MGS4 is Ahab and Not Big Boss and Big Boss is still alive ? Oh Kojima, you will neevr let Big Boss die don't you?

According to the leaks, Solid Snake faced Venom Snake in MG 1, and fought the real Big Boss in MG2. I find it odd that both Bosses were working towards essentially the same goal (military nation armed with nukes) concurrently.

Kojima is basically making this all up as he goes along.

 

[Fury451]

An encyclopaedia for this series is pointless because it lacks any form of consistency. It would be very disjointed and amount to nonsensical rambling. The MGS4 Database was already awful, it only goes downhill from there.

Yep, sounds like Metal Gear to me!

I actually like the idea of Big Boss as a somewhat cowardly manipulator who puts a fall guy in his place and runs things from the shadows, lying and deceiving his way through history. Context will make or break it in delivery.