SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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stufte said:
It's be super awesome if we could get back to actual spoilers instead of stuff like Quiets attire and how offensive/not offensive it is which are not spoilers at all.

Has there been anything released about easter eggs found yet?
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There's this cool easter egg in which you can see Quiet sunbathing after your men capture her and put her in a cell.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
I have not seen any such thing on GAF atleast, and it certainly wasn't equal disapproval for both. In discussions about MGSV, literally the biggest complaints are aimed towards Quiet. Nothing for child soldiers or torture. Hell, little to nothing about torturing Quiet. It's usually, mostly about Quiets dress.
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You can find plenty of articles about it.

SkylineRKR said:
This was what actually disturbed me the most in the trailer. She being tortured with electric shocks or burns or whatever it was. Or the guy being waterboarded.

But i'm glad this stuff is in, its the dirty side of war and games shouldn't censor this stuff. Its a grown up platform. Which, indeed, makes some stuff Hideo always puts in somewhat childish in comparison. But MGS is satire I guess.
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This game isn't advertised as being satirical.

robotoboy20 said:
My issue with everything is this:

In past Metal Gear games the Violence was always been kind of on the goofy side, with light-ish violence. Sure the violence was there but it was always kind of silly. The torture was even silly - as the characters were usually buck naked strapped to some silly torture machine. Ocelot was essentially a sadist and a villain and not really meant to be empathized with.

I don't think you're supposed to like what you're doing in MGSV - it's supposed to be the depiction of a man becoming a horrible person... but everything in the game from what I've heard, and seen is handled FAAAAAR to casually to really represent it properly.

This game throws some really dark shit at you, because supposedly Kojima wanted to make a darker game with much deeper meaning, and gray area storytelling... but unfortunately goofiness, and darkness don't go hand in hand... and you can't tell a "mature story" and spin the tale in a "dark way" while including the ridiculously silly themes that MGS uses... It's like "You just killed a child soldier!" Fuck... I'm depressed now... "Hey boss, do you believe in Santa Claus?"

Really? See that's the inappropriateness I'm feeling from the whole thing. In GZ he deals with two kids, one is forced to have sex with other, and one child is gang raped by a group of soldiers. There is so much real life darkness, mixed with light-heartedness that the entire game feels likes it's relishing in it's sadism.

Now if you take into mind that Hideo has always tried to guilt the player about their enjoyment of murder, and horrible things that they do in these games... you get a different feeling about it. Hideo hates war, and is extremely anti-war... perhaps the goal is to make you feel uncomfortable... in sort of Japanese spec-ops kind of way. I don't know I haven't played MGSV yet, but I will... and after that I will determine how I feel. Past games have rewarded non-violent playthroughs, and in MGS4 if you kill enough people Snake vomits while he hears liquids voice saying "you relish the killing don't you?"

MGR dealt with violence, sociopathy as well as PTSD and dissociative personality disorder. Do they handle these things well? Nope, but then again Psychology is nearly non-existent in Japan.
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All good points, it feels exploitive instead of something that's legitimately trying to tell a dark war story. And from all accounts it doesn't seem like this game says anything to you for murdering enemies.
 
robotoboy20 said:
My issue with everything is this:

In past Metal Gear games the Violence was always been kind of on the goofy side, with light-ish violence. Sure the violence was there but it was always kind of silly. The torture was even silly - as the characters were usually buck naked strapped to some silly torture machine. Ocelot was essentially a sadist and a villain and not really meant to be empathized with.

I don't think you're supposed to like what you're doing in MGSV - it's supposed to be the depiction of a man becoming a horrible person... but everything in the game from what I've heard, and seen is handled FAAAAAR to casually to really represent it properly.

This game throws some really dark shit at you, because supposedly Kojima wanted to make a darker game with much deeper meaning, and gray area storytelling... but unfortunately goofiness, and darkness don't go hand in hand... and you can't tell a "mature story" and spin the tale in a "dark way" while including the ridiculously silly themes that MGS uses... It's like "You just killed a child soldier!" Fuck... I'm depressed now... "Hey boss, do you believe in Santa Claus?"

Really? See that's the inappropriateness I'm feeling from the whole thing. In GZ he deals with two kids, one is forced to have sex with other, and one child is gang raped by a group of soldiers. There is so much real life darkness, mixed with light-heartedness that the entire game feels likes it's relishing in it's sadism.

Now if you take into mind that Hideo has always tried to guilt the player about their enjoyment of murder, and horrible things that they do in these games... you get a different feeling about it. Hideo hates war, and is extremely anti-war... perhaps the goal is to make you feel uncomfortable... in sort of Japanese spec-ops kind of way. I don't know I haven't played MGSV yet, but I will... and after that I will determine how I feel.
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Yeah, no, that's not how that stuff works.

First of all: your argument that the game's essentially relishing in its sadism or softcore pornography is flawed, as the mix between ultra dark elements and light-heartedness isn't done in a way that undermines either elements. The juxtaposition of the elements is done in such a way that the darkness of certain plot elements allows for catharsis, but the light-hearted elements (like the cardboard boxes and chicken hat) have nothing to do with all the narrative elements and are there purely for their conventional Kojima-ness and as (gameplay) palate cleansers. The dark narrative elements are the best thing Kojima has done in ages, as it's a sign of his maturity as a story teller; the best moments in this game would not have the same intense effect if the plot wasn't so damn real and heavy.

Also: be consistent, man. You can't say you enjoy the game's light-heartedness but then complain that Quiet looks too sexist. The reason we (collectively) allowed characters like Sniper Wolf and EVA was because they suited the arcadey, light-hearted, old skool video game tone of their respective games. Pick a side.

Anyway, I'm starting to get sick of the Quiet discussion. Not because of how much it pops up, but because most people don't seem to realize that the only reason they're still fucking discussing it is because of their own insecurity towards sexuality. Quiet's nakedness is contextualized, it's been leaked, it has a place within Metal Gear; deal with it. You don't have to agree with it, but trying to constantly justify your outrage towards it is nothing but a clear-cut sign that you have a problem with boobies in media in general. Grow up. Please. This is an ADULT game. With ADULT themes. And ADULT imagery. You might not enjoy adult imagery, but don't try to blame the game for it, especially since it has gone out of its way to explain it within its own universe.

This is a war simulator, guys. One which genius lies in its ability to both confront us with the nastiness of war (violence, death, sadism, rape, betrayal, etc.) and let us have our cake and eat it too by letting us shoot the mans with a variety of weaponry. It's a masterpiece, partially because it always manages to keep a clear distinction between those two things. Don't let your own inability to make that distinction allow yourself to get angry at the game. Get angry at yourself.
 
stufte said:
Yah I figured, at least it's completely in line with the easter eggs from past games. Are there any hidden outfits/hats/bandanas/etc.? Ape Escape masks? Anything along those lines?
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There's a Raiden one for S ranking every mission.
And the Ground Zeroes sneaking suit for importing an gz save.

Wouldn't be any ape escape ones they lost the rights to it, mgs3 HD had them patched out.
 
Echoenigma said:
None of the metal gear games ever have been.
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But they also weren't advertised anywhere near as seriously as this game was.

Shauni said:
notthisshitagain.gif
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This is satire.

Spainkiller said:
Anyway, I'm starting to get sick of the Quiet discussion. Not because of how much it pops up, but because most people don't seem to realize that the only reason they're still fucking discussing it is because of their own insecurity towards sexuality. Quiet's nakedness is contextualized, it's been leaked, it has a place within Metal Gear; deal with it. You don't have to agree with it, but trying to constantly justify your outrage towards it is nothing but a clear-cut sign that you have a problem with boobies in media in general. Grow up. Please. This is an ADULT game. With ADULT themes. And ADULT imagery. You might not enjoy adult imagery, but don't try to blame the game for it, especially since it has gone out of its way to explain it within its own universe.
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This disingenuous argument always gets brought up as well. Sexualized female protagonists != adult imagery and being uncomfortable and "outraged" with yet another relatively creepy portrayal of a female protagonist, (this one is even more justified after like two years of "But Kojima said we'd be ashamed of our words and deeds."), doesn't mean that we have insecurities about the female body.
 
Crossing Eden said:
This disingenuous argument always gets brought up as well. Sexualized female protagonists != adult imagery and being uncomfortable and "outraged" with yet another relatively creepy portrayal of a female protagonist, (this one is even more justified after like two years of "But Kojima said we'd be ashamed of our words and deeds."), doesn't mean that we have insecurities about the female body.
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You're still completely ignoring the fact that she's not half-naked (purely) for its sexualization, but for plot reasons that work within the canon. If you can accept the supernatural abilities of the Skulls, you have no reason to still call Quiet's outfit purely sexualization.

Also, my jab at people's uncomfortableness wasn't because of them trying to argue against it, but because of the lengths they are willing to go to argue against it (despite the game's solid counter-arguments).

Please don't use any logical fallacies and try to counter my arguments properly. Thanks.
 
mgs2master2 said:
anyhow... to change topic


How do you build other struts at motherbase? everyone is complaining at MB we need more space.
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Need a certain amount of materials (a lot of common metal, I think like 2000) and possibly personnel requirements to be met before you can make new struts.
 
Also: guys, sexualization itself is NOT a bad thing. It's actually healthy as long as it's done respectfully and in healthy dosages. We are sexual beings and we are supposed to lust after each other; the only problem is that we've been using lust as a driving force in media for too long and too much and we need to find a way to balance that shit out.

Considering the amount of female soldiers/characters in this game, it's safe to say that the game uses sexualization sparingly (Quiet + a certain team of Skulls). And there's nothing wrong with that.

Everyone seems eager to point out sexism in games these days as we're still in the early, reactionary, counter-movement days in which we are overly aware of our medium's sexual history and are thusly trying to prove that we can do better. But the balance has been lost. Here's to hoping that we'll straighten/balance out sooner rather than later, so we can enjoy sex in gaming properly, respectfully and without losing our fucking minds over it.

(Also: R. Mika's back in Street Fighter. Yay.)
 
Spainkiller said:
You're still completely ignoring the fact that she's not half-naked (purely) for its sexualization, but for plot reasons that work within the canon. If you can accept the supernatural abilities of the Skulls, you have no reason to still call Quiet's outfit purely sexualization.

Also, my jab at people's uncomfortableness wasn't because of them trying to argue against it, but because of the lengths they are willing to go to argue against it (despite the game's solid counter-arguments).

Please don't use any logical fallacies and try to counter my arguments properly. Thanks.
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IIRC aren't her powers based on photosynthesis? Because in that case she's yet another female character to add to the already huge list of female characters who's powers depend on body exposure. What counter arguments does the game bring up for it? If anything the outrage is doubly justified due to what Kojima said would make us "ashamed."

BreezyLimbo said:
But that isn't advertised as being satire!
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Don't pretend like MGSV's trailers have been anywhere near that light hearted.


Btw, anymore streams today?

Echoenigma said:
dat cherrypicking


That was MGS4's announcement trailer, before the project itself was unveiled. Different context there.

MGS4's actual first trailer, with old snake, was serious.
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I was providing an example of what actual satire looks like. Since many seem to be of the opinion that metal gear as a whole, (aside from 3 where the whole point was satirizing spy films), is satire.
 
Metroidvania said:
Need a certain amount of materials (a lot of common metal, I think like 2000) and possibly personnel requirements to be met before you can make new struts.
Click to expand...

V3n0m Sn4k3 said:
Go to the development section and see if you can make a new one like the command center. If not, go gather more resources.
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BreezyLimbo said:
Build more pyl-What the other guys said.
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Mifec said:
Should be an option in the idroid, if you can't find it look at the gamescom mother base demo it's shown there.
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thanks for the replies. Is it any common metal or metals? or do they require me having to obtain the giant containers full of materials? if thats the case i need to level up fulton
 
Guys, PLEASE: satire =/= comedy.

Satire can be a form of comedy, but not all comedy is satire.

Crossing Eden said:
IIRC aren't her powers based on photosynthesis?
Click to expand...

No, you've got that backwards: her photosynthesis is one of her powers (which she got through the Code Talker parasites) and it allows her to live off of sunlight (she doesn't need to eat). The reason she's half-naked has to do with her (lack of) lungs: she breathes through her skin. As Ocelot explains at one point: clothing would suffocate her. This is why she can shower, but being completely submerged in water would kill her.

See, this is the power of spoilers and of people who feel like they need to justify their internal outrage: they're trying to discuss things they're not properly knowledgeable about.

Crossing Eden said:
Because in that case she's yet another female character to add to the already huge list of female characters who's powers depend on body exposure.
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Yeah, let's forget about characters like Vamp, Raiden and even Snake, who have been shown in sexualized contexts as well. And don't even think about using the "yeah, but there have been more sexualized female characters than male ones" argument because that will be grasping at straws and missing the point.

The problem is, again, not Quiet's sexualization. It's your readiness to be outraged about it. Which... without wanting to spoil too much... might be Kojima's point a bit?
 
Crossing Eden said:
This disingenuous argument always gets brought up as well. Sexualized female protagonists != adult imagery and being uncomfortable and "outraged" with yet another relatively creepy portrayal of a female protagonist, (this one is even more justified after like two years of "But Kojima said we'd be ashamed of our words and deeds."), doesn't mean that we have insecurities about the female body.
Click to expand...

+1.
How in the hell does people thinking that super-power endowing tumour tits are stupid instantly make them insecure about women's bodies? What sort of logic is that.

It's a mature rated game, sure. But this aspect, and the way women are typically treated in Metal Gear games (oggle boobs for life boost!) is childish.

Spainkiller said:
Yeah, let's forget characters about characters like Vamp, Raiden and even Snake, who have been shown in sexualized contexts as well.
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Snake's tight trousers and Raiden's brief naked segment are not slightly comparable.
 
KJRS_1993 said:
+1.
How in the hell does people thinking that super-power endowing tumour tits are stupid instantly make them insecure about women's bodies? What sort of logic is that.

It's a mature rated game, sure. But this aspect, and the way women are typically treated in Metal Gear games (oggle boobs for life boost!) is childish.
Click to expand...

Do we even know that the "breast tumors" thing was real? I thought it was something that a GAF'er said as a joke and people ran with it.
 
Spainkiller said:
Yeah, no, that's not how that stuff works.

First of all: your argument that the game's essentially relishing in its sadism or softcore pornography is flawed, as the mix between ultra dark elements and light-heartedness isn't done in a way that undermines either elements. The juxtaposition of the elements is done in such a way that the darkness of certain plot elements allows for catharsis, but the light-hearted elements (like the cardboard boxes and chicken hat) have nothing to do with all the narrative elements and are there purely for their conventional Kojima-ness and as (gameplay) palate cleansers. The dark narrative elements are the best thing Kojima has done in ages, as it's a sign of his maturity as a story teller; the best moments in this game would not have the same intense effect if the plot wasn't so damn real and heavy.

Also: be consistent, man. You can't say you enjoy the game's light-heartedness but then complain that Quiet looks too sexist. The reason we (collectively) allowed characters like Sniper Wolf and EVA was because they suited the arcadey, light-hearted, old skool video game tone of their respective games. Pick a side.

Anyway, I'm starting to get sick of the Quiet discussion. Not because of how much it pops up, but because most people don't seem to realize that the only reason they're still fucking discussing it is because of their own insecurity towards sexuality. Quiet's nakedness is contextualized, it's been leaked, it has a place within Metal Gear; deal with it. You don't have to agree with it, but trying to constantly justify your outrage towards it is nothing but a clear-cut sign that you have a problem with boobies in media in general. Grow up. Please. This is an ADULT game. With ADULT themes. And ADULT imagery. You might not enjoy adult imagery, but don't try to blame the game for it, especially since it has gone out of its way to explain it within its own universe.

This is a war simulator, guys. One which genius lies in its ability to both confront us with the nastiness of war (violence, death, sadism, rape, betrayal, etc.) and let us have our cake and eat it too by letting us shoot the mans with a variety of weaponry. It's a masterpiece, partially because it always manages to keep a clear distinction between those two things. Don't let your own inability to make that distinction allow yourself to get angry at the game. Get angry at yourself.
Click to expand...

The thing is Hideo is always trying to make narrative driven games. The argument that it's arcadey is null. Even though it was revealed that an entire separate studio did the game portion of Spec-Ops than the writing it still drove a message clearly through its experience. War - is horrible - and you should feel horrible for the atrocities you're committing.

The same theme permeates Hideo's works. He's said so himself. My argument is that the narrative typically includes tackiness alongside its darker themes. Quiet wears a bikini to regulate photosynthesis - Metal Gear has tons of wacky inventions, why couldn't she wear a suit to help regulate it? Also, The End also has this ability... why does Quiet choose to do this? Oh right she can turn completely invisible without clothes... except stealth camo exists, and what about The Fear?

So her explanation is pretty dumb. I don't like her, but I do agree the complaints need to stop, they're not going to change anything, and you can put clothing on Quiet with the Sniper Wolf outfit which is what I am going to do, because I find it weird for her to not wear any protection, when every other female soldier you recruit wears full fatigues.

Hideo handles the concept poorly. I do enjoy it's light heartedness, but when the characters discuss bizarre wacky things, as buddies, and then proceed to kill child soldiers (also I don't know if equipment shows up in cutscenes, but how would you take that situation if killed the child soldiers while wearing a chicken hat?)... they aren't really representing it right. Platinum did. Raiden had to slice through George to save the rest of the kids... and it haunts him throughout the rest of the game. I actually have grown to like Raiden the most out of the series. He's the most well developed character imo. MGR dealt with Raiden schizoid PTSD ridden mind much better than MGS has handled itself since 3... that's my opinion. The issue is that Hideo can't even keep up with his own narrative making weird exceptions at random points. I will agree to this though ---

Venom Snake is very obviously a sociopath - unlike Big Boss... he seems to show no remorse for any of his awful actions... Big Boss seemed to show mental breakage upon dealing with fucked up things. I am an inconsistent guy - what can I say. I don't much care for extremism, or absolutist thinking.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Roboto, he just said that Quiet breathes through her skin and wearing clothes would suffocate her.
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Alright, so basically they made the idea that she needs parasites to survive and she breaths through her skin... they make all kinds of bizarre tech available, and then they don't make her a suit to regulate that shit!? See if you think with in the lore of the games it still doesn't make a lot of sense. There's all kinds of ways Hideo could of handled it in his game, but he wanted boobies because he likes them. Yeah... That's dumb... and dumb writing at that. I'm not saying it "can't exist" but it's still stupid in my opinion.
 
stufte said:
That's not satire, that's a very narrow fan service (not the sexy kind) played to fans at a video game convention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOisEQrt5g4

that's the way most mgs games are presented.

But this is the kind of stuff we get:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUE0ODP2MeY
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Even that story trailer had the part where the cardboard box is filled with watermelons. 99.9% of the story stuff that we've seen for this game(especially e3 trailers)has been deathly serious.

BreezyLimbo said:
I didn't know satire could only be used light heartedly.(It doesn't need to be)
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It doesn't need to be but again, none of the story trailers for this game have been presented as any form of satire. What about it is satire aside from knowing that all of this is caused by dudes named big boss, zero, and skullface.
 
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