I understand the "within the world created" comment, but you DO realize this is a fictional creation by a person, right? EVERYTHING about this game is entirely contingent, all it would take is for Kojima to have said "she can have a flak jacket, at least" and nobody would have been the wiser. Do you understand that saying "that's just how it is" is not a justification for WHY it was made to be that way?
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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I understand the "within the world created" comment, but you DO realize this is a fictional creation by a person, right? EVERYTHING about this game is entirely contingent, all it would take is for Kojima to have said "she can have a flak jacket, at least" and nobody would have been the wiser. Do you understand that saying "that's just how it is" is not a justification for WHY it was made to be that way?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's an explanation yes, but it's incredibly stupid. If anything, with MB, we should have the option to develop a special suit for her that allows her to be clothed.
Also this.
I don't doubt this game will have some pretty bad explanations about any sort of stuff in service of fan service, but at least it doesn't quite hit the dates with Paz and Kaz in PW.
Those are pretty stupid. I am certain people will never not be sort of creeped out by some of those too. But i don't have the sense of shame to have much regard for that stuff.
Those things rank into the stupid side of Metal Gear for me, just like the posters of Models and Snake trying to jerk off in a closet.
Those are pretty stupid. I am certain people will never not be sort of creeped out by some of those too. But i don't have the sense of shame to have much regard for that stuff.
Those things rank into the stupid side of Metal Gear for me, just like the posters of Models and Snake trying to jerk off in a closet.
robotoboy20
Banned
Hey, that's a great idea... wonder why they didn't put it in.
Why because you don't agree with my views? Not as if I'm bothered in the slightest, you've had some agenda against me since I joined NeoGaf anyway, always seeking out my posts and criticising everything I say. you're always coming across to me as the sort of guy who has to be right about everything and doesn't understand how opinions and differing views work.
Oh and really? A mutated Sn4ke_911? Have you ever heard the saying that if you don't have anything good to say then don't say anything at all? I don't know why you have to resort to name calling just to make yourself feel superior, it makes you come across as an idiot who doesn't have the knowledge or brain power to have a discussion. Your little "your going on my ignore list because I don't have the brain cells to figure out how opinions work!" Routine is tiring mate, it really is. I thought that the reason NeoGaf used such an intensive account approval process was to stop people like you from joining.
See a fine example of not understanding how opinions work.
To be fair, I could have worded my post a bit better so I'll start again. I don't have a problem with the way Quiet is dressed, Games aren't reality, so why should games be penalised for its portrayal of women when TV, Film, Music and Art have all sexualised women over the years? If a designer or artist wants to design a character that way then why shouldn't they?
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Guys! Kojima himself admitted Quiet was designed for sexy cosplay.
The design of cosplay came first and then super auteur gave us an over-complicated reason for it
The design of cosplay came first and then super auteur gave us an over-complicated reason for it
Well i don't know, do you guys have the list of clothes she gets to wear?
Do i assume she doesn't get anything of that sort because the authority players who have the game can say that she has nothing in regards to clothing?
I still have no idea what most of her deal is to be honest. This thread is more of a fog i can inhale than to absorb in-depth spoiler knowledge of every aspects of the game.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
If you enjoy the pandering, that's fine. Just admit it.
But long winded defenses that her tits need to be out for story or lore reason are just embarrassing to read.
But long winded defenses that her tits need to be out for story or lore reason are just embarrassing to read.
robotoboy20
Banned
Well I don't like badly written female characters in any of those things. If an artist wants to film porn why shouldn't they? Thing is often times men create projections of women that are often unrealistic fantasized concepts... and then people excuse it as though the guy has a woman's perspective. That's truth of that. It's proven that it's difficult to write a character of your opposing gender, due to the way we experience the world, and culture around us. I mostly just want "artists" to get better at writing their gendered counterparts.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So the creator is not allowed to design something and let it be? He HAS to provide an alternative for it?
I'm sure Kojima could've designed a gigantic cardboard box for her if he wanted to, and given a perfectly sane lore explanation for said cardboard box, but he doesn't have to NOR should he feel like he need to.
The justification is in the story reasons. However, you can find a Sniper Wolf outfit that covers her up and gives her a bad dye job if her default outfit worries you that much. And since that's the case, why are we arguing again if there is an alternative?
WrenchNinja
Member
Seriously. I mean you can be a fan of this series without totally drinking the kool-aid and accepting whatever bullshit narrative explanation Kojima comes up with.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Pretty much. They can build walking tanks, octocamo, super cyborgs and invisibility cloaks but can't make a skin hugging outfit that absorbs sunlight to nourish the wearer. Please!
They could have compromised and given us a Metroid style Zero Suit Quiet. On the other hand, enjoy your titillation, nothing wrong with but don't pretend it's anything but that.
Your GF won't leave you just because you love sexy video game characters.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes, at the very least, there are seemingly no examples of characters who look way younger than their actual age.
Right?
Yes thank you, ffs it's so much easier just acknowledge what it is instead of tip toeing around it. And like Bun said even Kojima acknowledged what the purpose of the outfit is before PR probably told him to come up with a vague phrase.
Dick Justice
Banned
Kojima is entitled to design pandering bullshit, we're entitled to call him out on that bullshit.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
to what ends tho
normalmode
Member
I unlocked Missions 45 long after I *beat* the game in Mission 46. In between 46 and 45, I spent a good 20 hours working on side missions and eventually I decided to not go back to Mother Base for a long time. That resulted in me being really smelly, which triggered a new scene when I came back to base.
I'm not sure if it was those exact steps that unlocks Missions 45 or if its the final step in a series of steps that I unknowingly fulfilled.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Wait mission 45 unlocked after mission 46?
I think it's more likely that Mission 45 has certain unlock conditions that weren't fulfilled until after he was doing a bunch of side stuff after 46.
I wonder if Mission 45 is the 3rd ending...
normalmode
Member
For me, it was. We'll all have different paths I suppose.
(I'd write something more profound but this Japanese food coma is making me high)
True but what about female characters designed like that don't you like? badly written and badly designed are two different things, how do we know Quiet is badly written? So far my opinions of Quiets character is that she compliments the story (the whole parasite story line as well as the fact that after torture she joins Big Boss) in my opinion of what I have seen, her story arc adds to the game.
normalmode
Member
behroozbadboy
Banned
What about Quiets design don't you like? Why should Kojima be called out when she was created by Shinkawa?
Good to know!
What difficulty are you playing on? I wonder if that has anything to do with the unlocks...
Like I said, I don't mind Quiet being designed that way, if the Lore explains it in the game then it fits with the games universe. Simple. But I agree that when Kojima said and we'd be ashamed of her words and deeds I was intrigued as to what he'd come up with. Finding out it was exactly what everyone said it was is disappointing.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
mgs2master2
Banned
So i got 2500 Common metal, no new strut? no option to do it. What am i missing?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
yeah you can select the missions out of order.
normalmode
Member
Is there actually a difficulty selection option to kick off the game?! I never saw it. Also, it would run counter to the layout of Main Mission menu. The first 35 or so story missions are just regular titles and beyond that, some of the missions from 36 to 50 are reprises of older missions but now those have specific difficulty names before it, eg. "[EXTREME] A Hero's Way". There's also a [SUBSISTENCE] variant for a couple missions, where it's weapons and equipment OSP.
The lack of playthrough-wide harder modes makes this 'true ending' article hard to believe:
http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...s-extraordinary-but-difficult-to-unlock-34523
After beating both Mission 45 and 46, I wasn't given the option of starting any New Game+ let alone the opportunity to play all the story missions on Hard.
Orochinagis
Member
So huh, Quiet is a girl or not
I'm one of those people that tends to just watch and read in NeoGAF than write anything, but I had to post this.
As has already been reiterated about 61 (scissors?) times previously, can we keep the discussion as to whether Quiet's attire is offensive to our fragile little minds or not to a completely separate thread. I'm all for cohesive discussion, but this thread is specifically for spoilers.
Jesus on a crutch.
ANYWAY!
NormalMode - would you mind answering some questions about the game if you have the time?
As has already been reiterated about 61 (scissors?) times previously, can we keep the discussion as to whether Quiet's attire is offensive to our fragile little minds or not to a completely separate thread. I'm all for cohesive discussion, but this thread is specifically for spoilers.
Jesus on a crutch.
ANYWAY!
NormalMode - would you mind answering some questions about the game if you have the time?
normalmode
Member
Strictly gameplay questions, sure. Let me take a nap first.
robotoboy20
Banned
Well here's an instance of a real woman versus a badly characterized woman. Within context of course, and yes I will be relating it to a real life situation - and that is valid! It involves a woman who my family is pretty close to.
My MMA instructor from when I was 11 and close family friend is one of the first female marines to attain the highest rank in Brazillian Jiu-jitsu. She's featured in the documentary Making a Marine for doing this. When I was younger and even as I grew up - she trained constantly but felt self conscious about her femininity. She's a fairly muscular woman, but she is definitely feminine. She's not "butch" she's just fairly toned, and a little bigger than your average woman.
In relation female characters in the military are often portrayed as meat headed overtly masculine stereotypes, or skinny brainy types. If they aren't portrayed that way they portrayed as tough as nails and a good soldier but lack muscle mass... or definition. They also tend to place their femininity as a core value and primary character feature. Quiet isn't really depicted that way... but the fact that she has no lines, aside from a few. Is a partner character grouped with Venom Snakes animal buddies... and the fact that she has no real characterization is poor writing. The Boss is an amazingly written character, and I love her to death, because she's really similar to my MMA instructor incidentally. She kept her femininity whilst also expressing it at appropriate times, (as far as we're told, every time we see her she means business) Tomokazu Fukushima seems to be the reason she was written well... because since he's been gone, Hideo seems to consistently write sexualized female characters. Quiet is however not toned at all... she's a twig, with large breasts. She doesn't talk, which seems to be the reason they end up letting her help them... aside from her saving Venom... her purpose for being there is barely explained.
But you know... that's my reason.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's good. Trying to avoid that timed mission like the plague.
She seemingly starts as a normal person. Unless the parasites make her genderless she's female.
Which mission is "TRUTH: THE MAN WHO SOLD THE WORLD"? Noticed that was the last story related mission achievement...
Orochinagis
Member
Game sold. (lol)
Hmm. That's interesting.
I haven't played it - all this is based on other things I've read around the Internet...but I wonder if you actually have to complete all 50 story based missions to get the "end"...cause what we be the point otherwise of having "extra story missions" if the game has already ended?
Again - all speculation on my part.
That SUBSISTENCE stuff sounds cool.
robotoboy20
Banned
ARGH WHAT'S THE TRUE ENDING!!! I NEED TO KNOW DAMNIT!
behroozbadboy
Banned
#teamHayter
I honestly thought it would of leaked by now since the street date broke on Tuesday.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Have you seen the hospital segment?
Springfoot
Member
Kojima makes really fun games that are a blast to play, and he does a great job of evolving the mechanics and layering gameplay systems with each new title. But his writing and characterizations, at least when flying solo as he has been after MGS3, are inconsistent at best and often downright terrible much of the time.
Your followup dimestore psychology is brilliant:
For the record, thinking that contextually out of place lingerie/bikinis are pandering and stupid does not mean a person has "insecurity towards sexuality." Good lord, did you read what you wrote before hitting Submit? Or is this a roundabout attempt at having your cake and eating it too, by trying to make a serious criticism of others' arguments while interspersing it with wacky juvenile nonsense?
Are you aware of the conflict here? Do you understand that people are arguing that by attempting to shift the tone from B-movie camp to something thoughtfully darker and more serious, it really needs to shed the trappings of B-movie camp as well? Or on the flip side, if he wants the story to keep the B-movie camp, then it's not really the best venue for handling serious issues with tact and maturity. Moreover...
I think you could afford to look in a mirror.
EDIT: This blows my mind. You know that as a fictional character with fictional superpowers, Kojima could have done anything he wanted with her, right? She's in a bikini because he wanted her in a bikini, and he then came up with some random nonsense to explain it away. If he wanted her dressed in an actual combat uniform, he could have made her hair the sunlight/oxygen-absorbant part. I can't seriously believe you're trying to make this argument.
BlastKiller
Member
Huh, the ToC from the official guide says that mission 46 is the one that is locked.
Must be the last ending, because they are not even allowed to get this in the guide, and you must download it later from the Piggyback website.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Hotline may be starting soon.
robotoboy20
Banned
I'm F5'ing and eating buttery crispy popcorn.
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