Doctor_Thomas
Member
Kojima has been fairly clear that tinkering with canon is fine if it works in the context of the newest game.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Kojima has been fairly clear that tinkering with canon is fine if it works in the context of the newest game.
I haven't gotten to this part yet, but don't they reveal she was just a figment of Venom's imagination?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Did you get all the pictures and show them to her for doing the missing MSF side ops?
Wow. I'll be honest, I didn't get all the pictures yet. If it is true that she's an illusion I feel very stupid now.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Unless I'm recalling incorrectly, wasn't there already a video linked in the thread about the final Paz momento show her suddenly bleeding, and the bomb on the floor, etc...insinuating that she was a projection/hallucation of the Medic's subconscious guilt about his failure or what have you?
edit: Beaten.
edit: Beaten.
WrenchNinja
Member
Dude went full Lucas
The only thing that was shocking about it was the vagina bomb, and not only is it still there, now you get some fisting action as well.
SkylineRKR
Member
Wow. I'll be honest, I didn't get all the pictures yet. If it is true that she's an illusion I feel very stupid now.
Didn't want to spoil it, but... its a pretty brilliant scene. And pretty harsh too.
V has come to suddenly made sense to me in that scene.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Seeing people say "Big Boss" again and again in articles and treads and tweets is just so suspenseful. Just a day or two left until everybody knows.
schlongdog
Banned
People are going to fucking mental I think. The backlash is going to be enormous. Absolutely enormous.
After several hours of playing the game and closely following the spoilers in this thread, I must say that MGS V will be the strangest title in the series. The gameplay and open world is just so good. It's truly a unique experience.
The downside is how pointless the story is. Even with the cut ending... what was the whole point of everything? It feels like watching a pre-prologue of the beginning of how Big Boss takes a dump - the big surprise is that the soldier you wounded in MGS 3, north of Dolinovodno, behind the tree on the right took the shit instead.
A MGS title with a barely relevant story can't work. Most of us are rightfully disappointed. Plus it's Kojima's last Metal Gear game. Maybe even his very last game. In the immortal words of JC Denton: What a shame.
The downside is how pointless the story is. Even with the cut ending... what was the whole point of everything? It feels like watching a pre-prologue of the beginning of how Big Boss takes a dump - the big surprise is that the soldier you wounded in MGS 3, north of Dolinovodno, behind the tree on the right took the shit instead.
A MGS title with a barely relevant story can't work. Most of us are rightfully disappointed. Plus it's Kojima's last Metal Gear game. Maybe even his very last game. In the immortal words of JC Denton: What a shame.
Kojima was a good man. What a rotten way to die.
GhostTrick
Banned
Am I the only one to be really disappointed with the plot ? Felt unnecessary, bad and even sabotaging the whole canon :/
I cant believe that instead of covering interesting characters from the series, which could've been present in term of timeline, the game just ends up being a dumb retcon without any sense :/
I cant believe that instead of covering interesting characters from the series, which could've been present in term of timeline, the game just ends up being a dumb retcon without any sense :/
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Can we also talk about Quiet's exit? It may be one of the most amazing things in a video game ever, even though the story in general was thin, I loved hearing Quiet's story. I felt ashamed of my words and deeds.
The entire "extract Quiet" mission, right up to her sacrifice to save Snake and then walking to find nothing more than a cassette.
I won't lie, this is the scene (like so many MGS games) that really hit me. Quiet had been with me for a large part of my journey, I had full bond status with her. Then.... she was gone.
Then Quiet's theme.
The entire "extract Quiet" mission, right up to her sacrifice to save Snake and then walking to find nothing more than a cassette.
I won't lie, this is the scene (like so many MGS games) that really hit me. Quiet had been with me for a large part of my journey, I had full bond status with her. Then.... she was gone.
Then Quiet's theme.
No. There are plenty of people in this thread alone that are deeply disappointed with the plot, including me.
Hands of Stone
Member
Can you think up any comparable (potential) fallout to the twist in recent gaming? Other than ME3 of course.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Will it though?
It's really nice to see though that the ones who say Venom Snake do it on purpose while not spoiling anything. You can see exactly who knows what's up and the poor people who don't see the catastrophe yet.
This is on a whole different level I believe. Mass Effect is a story that had a span of just a few years. Metal Gear has existed for 29 years now, and this is also the final game made by the original creator.
Outside of the group of people that will like it because "it's subversive, therefore it's good", I feel the backlash will be massive.
igordennis
Member
Can you elaborate? Im out of the loop on this.
And, of that group, there's going to be a subset of people who will like it because "it's just like MGS2's twist and that game was eventually vindicated, so this twist must be brilliant too."
Which we've already seen in this thread.
SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah. The game makes you believe she didn't and they retcon the helicopter scene, giving BB hope. But in the end it all did happen like we saw in GZ. Big Boss likely felt guilty and wanted to remember it different, in the end he realized she actually blew up and the final Paz scene is pretty fucked up.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I see this twist and a good part of me doesn't have a problem with the whole body double plot in fact it makes more sense to me why Konima would get Kiefer to play the role. It's hard to get things done when you got a terrorist hunting you down.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The game reveals at the end that you're not Big Boss but a nameless soldier who was given plastic surgery and brainwashing to be Big Boss's body double while the real one was off doing other stuff.
Oh, and the time that Solid Snake went to Outer Heaven and fought Big Boss in the very first Metal Gear? That was the fake you play as in V; the real Big Boss was never there.
GhostTrick
Banned
Two problems in your theory:
-It creates a lot of plot holes.
-Akio Otsuka still is voicing Big Boss.
Even the Metal Gear reference was terrible :/
Its painful to read that fans have sometimes better ideas than the creator himself.
Its just terrible hahahaha. I rather wished the final side ops would've been Operation Intrude N313 but in shorter version.
SictorVullivan
Member
On second thoughts I take it all back. Sounds stupid!
I dunno, Venom manages to get a lot of shit done while Skullface is hunting him down. Big Boss has been shown to pretty capable previously.
And it's not like Skullface is even that effective as a terrorist past his initial victory nine years ago. His plan gets blown up pretty easily.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I imagine that'll be a relatively small reaction. MGS2's twist was a big deal because it said something about the nature of video games and toyed with audience expectations in a story about information control. V's twist has absolutely nothing to do with anything, other than further ruining the previous good character development work done for Big Boss in 3.
I don't even know if there's even enough dialogue in V to write a bad dissertation on.
Could always write a dissertation on LANGUAGE.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It plays along the themes of BB being a giant lie with his legacy. Allow things to go the way he wanted it to go so it could make him look good in the end. I'll give you the voice acting.
GhostTrick
Banned
That is something else. Wasnt BB's legacy already was set because of Operation Snake Eater and hence why it was a lie ?
Why the heck did they brought up this whole thing about BB becoming a legend during these nine years of coma ? Its just freakin non sense.
schlongdog
Banned
Why did BB turn evil
why
it's all I wanted to know
why
it's all I wanted to know
"The end"
You kind of find out near the beginning. if you get context clues
So i'm in a hospital, I just created a character. Despite creating that character I still look like big boss. The person who has a bandage over their face says I'm you . People keep telling me to become the big boss I was. Or can Be. My character for supposedly has amnesia , but evens till has no reactions to these character's existence. Not even a sign of his memory coming back. And I am being sent head first into missions that I am supposed to be the leader and operator of, and this last mission really seems like ... I don't know... death wishy.
Nah i'm big boss.
Why did BB turn evil
why
it's all I wanted to know
I don't think he was ever " evil " he was " I will do anything to do what I think is the good thing, and technically speaking he was fighting zero. Or the AI or whatever" Though , often times, doing what you need to do to get by guy is evil.
So i would say the entirety of MGS3 and Peace walker made him evil. And him having the idea about PMC"
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Why did BB turn evil
why
it's all I wanted to know
MGS4 and MGS3 taught us he was never evil to begin with
@_@
MGS3 was the very beginning of his descent.
MGS4 still painted him as a villain. A regretful, old and dying villain who finally realizes he accomplished shit, but still a villain.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Why did BB turn evil
why
it's all I wanted to know
If they had left the end of 3 as the last we saw of him, that's all we would have ever needed to know. Hell, I thought that was the whole point of 3.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Storywise, MGS3 really was the perfect end for the franchise.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well, I mean, everything we know paints him as a good guy though. He was against the Patriots through and through. Solid Snake was just a tool made to kill BB and destroy OH/ZanzibarLand. As far as bad guys go, Big Boss was never a 'Oh he killed millions of innocents!' His biggest crime was having a mercenary nation.
I do think MGSV touched on Big Boss' (well, Phantom Ganon's) relationship with child soldiers well but otherwise I agree.
The child soldier thing was a part of his evil that went beyond simply going rogue, and The Phantom Pain sort of gives you an understanding of BB's viewpoint (viewing them as capable, wanting to give them a place outside of the perpetual battlefield but understanding what they are good at).
Not exactly. He was against The Patriots, yes, but at what cost? We are talking about a guy who claimed to have started wars, fed their flames and then recruit the orphans into his army. None of this is retconned in MGS3 or MGS4.
His character in MGS3 and MGS4 is still in line with what we saw in MG2:SS, but they simply added another motivation to his list.
When I finished MGS4 I didn't get the feeling that Big Boss was a good guy. I still felt he was a bad guy trying to come to terms that he failed, that his methods were wrong and useless, and that only the new generation could accomplish what he could not. In the epilogue he even calls himself part of the "evils" of the old age.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Being someone whose last MGS game he truly paid attention to was MGS3 (not including MGS4 since that's really only about Solid Snake and I played through it once), reading this thread about what happens to Big Boss just makes no sense to me. The Snake in MGS3 seems like a completely different person to the person that's being described.
Big Boss needed no further elaboration after MGS3. That is my opinion.
Big Boss needed no further elaboration after MGS3. That is my opinion.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
To remind him, or Venom, of who he was or who he's suppose to be. Set him down the path that made BB a "legend". I think only BB, Eva, and possibly Ocelot knew what was really going on in Operation Snake Eater. That's how I see it. Everyone being manipulative.
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