BreezyLimbo
Banned
The patriots lied about him man! He gave those kids a home and what not! I dunno, I feel the series ends(In MGS4) with BB being a redeemed character.
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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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The patriots lied about him man! He gave those kids a home and what not! I dunno, I feel the series ends(In MGS4) with BB being a redeemed character.
WrenchNinja
Member
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Yes, in the context of what it was as a stand alone package, missing chapter aside.
No, because it's kind of... just done. This is Kojima's last outing and the only time we played as Big Boss in MGSV was in Ground Zeroes. Let that sink in for a moment.
Thanks
Yes, he was betrayed and lied to, but that doesn't make him a good guy. One can become a bad guy even after being lied to. Remember, this is the guy who recruited children from wars that he created. He himself says that he would "throw them into the next war" to repeat the process. I don't know about you, but that speaks of an evil man to me.
Since MGS4 doesn't retcon this, the old Big Boss we see in the epilogue still did those twisted things. He just now realizes how futile and useless all that was. In my mind, he did not redeem himself. He died a regretful villain trying to make a final peace with his son, his "superior version" while expressing his respect to him.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
But this is good, isn't it?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
100%.
Big Boss still died a villain. At best you could paint him as a tragic hero, a victim of his own demise, but he was still not redeemed. That was the whole point of the epilogue, not for Big Boss to seek redemption, but to allow Snake the redemption he himself couldn't have. If anything, the epilogue served exactly its purpose, to see the old age off, an age Big Boss was a part of.
Pretty much what I got from it. Big Boss acknowledges that he is one of the evils of the old age, and that he fought a bloody, futile war for what he claimed to be "freedom". He finally accepts that Solid Snake is his "good self". I love when he claims that Solid Snake, had he been in his place back in Operation Snake Eater, wouldn't have made the same mistakes. Solid Snake was the better man. He was the real hope for the future. He was not corrupted like the other Snakes.
googoomuck22
Member
Ok so this may be a redundant question and I'm being really dumb but, if we are indeed not playing as the real Big Boss, how is it that there are tapes where "big boss" is speaking to other characters and seems to know all about his past. Things such as his relationship with Zero/Cipher, Les Enfants Terribles etc... I mean that's the only thing I can't reconcile in my head, and for my own part I actually enjoyed the story, yeah it's goofy and ham-fisted and it doesn't really make sense nor offer any satisfying conclusions, but I was intrigued until the end.
Bullshit hypnosis, and Ocelot "reminded him" of those events.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I thought someone said it was the real BB talking in those tapes?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
It's very telling that the clone with the dominant genes and the one that was supposed to be the perfect balance took similar paths to Big Boss.
googoomuck22
Member
damn, that's so weak, would have been better if it was revealed somehow that those conversations which go intimately into his past are with the real Big Boss or something.
Even with the twist it's still a bad idea TBH.
igordennis
Member
Man thats a really dumb twist.
The Silver
Member
Laugh and grow fat!
heliosRAzi
Banned
LOL this twist. Man, Kojima should not have made any more games set between MGS3 and MG1.
he throws away a chance to further develop one of the series most important characters for "what a twist!"
you're just a pawn while the real BB goes off and makes outer heaven himself. did you like it?
He could have done this right.
If he had played it straight.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he's capable of doing that anymore and prefers twists over logical coherence.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I really want to create a spiritual successor to the MGS4 Big Boss ending comic, only this time it's BB suddenly remembering the events of Peace Walker and Phantom Pain to an increasingly incredulous and pissed off Solid Snake.
"And then after Otacon's mom built the Patriot AIs, Otacon's dad who made the first Metal Gear killed her, and-"
"This didn't fucking happen."
"It did. There were many friends and foes back then... Dr. Strangelove, Hot Coldman, Pacifica Ocean, Skull Face..."
"Those aren't people names. My best friend is named Otacon and I'm still saying that."
"Well, this is the end for me and my old friend Zero..."
"Okay, we're not talking about zeroes again. Also, I thought he was your enemy?"
"Oh we became sorta friends again. That was shortly after I rejected The Boss's will."
"Wait, I thought you were following The Boss's will but in a twisted way?"
"Well, it started when Otacon's mom built an AI Boss an-"
"Fucking never mind."
"We're almost out of time. This is the second time you've erased me..."
"Well, third."
"Hmm?"
"I beat you at Outer Heaven but you survived your injuries."
"Oh... um, heh heh."
"......What?"
"See, that kinda wasn't me. It was a double. Now that I'm dying, I should give props to that guy for all his hard work. Can't remember his name."
"Wait, were you going to die without letting me know this!? Were you going to let ME die without letting me know this!?!?"
"This is good... isn't it."
"And then after Otacon's mom built the Patriot AIs, Otacon's dad who made the first Metal Gear killed her, and-"
"This didn't fucking happen."
"It did. There were many friends and foes back then... Dr. Strangelove, Hot Coldman, Pacifica Ocean, Skull Face..."
"Those aren't people names. My best friend is named Otacon and I'm still saying that."
"Well, this is the end for me and my old friend Zero..."
"Okay, we're not talking about zeroes again. Also, I thought he was your enemy?"
"Oh we became sorta friends again. That was shortly after I rejected The Boss's will."
"Wait, I thought you were following The Boss's will but in a twisted way?"
"Well, it started when Otacon's mom built an AI Boss an-"
"Fucking never mind."
"We're almost out of time. This is the second time you've erased me..."
"Well, third."
"Hmm?"
"I beat you at Outer Heaven but you survived your injuries."
"Oh... um, heh heh."
"......What?"
"See, that kinda wasn't me. It was a double. Now that I'm dying, I should give props to that guy for all his hard work. Can't remember his name."
"Wait, were you going to die without letting me know this!? Were you going to let ME die without letting me know this!?!?"
"This is good... isn't it."
I agree. But you see, it's a little bit ironic that the only game that would be a little bit necessary plot wise, is Portable Ops. This is the game that explains how Zero got the Legacy and became the most powerful man on Earth. Without Portable Ops we are left with a huge hole regarding the creation of The Patriots.
Everything else was completely unnecessary, and that includes the entirety of Peace Walker.
Ok this fucking got me. It reminds me of that Star Wars gif where Darth Vader explains the plot of the prequels to Luke after telling him he is his father.
Hands of Stone
Member
"But nobody mentions it. Nobody mention that Snake effectively became a completely different character following the coma and it bugs the shit out of me"
Brilliant.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
This is amazing and it needs to be preserved for future generations.
funkystudent
Member
The body double twist makes we wish they did my idea I had when the Keifer stuff was shown that they should have had Hayter do the voice in Ground Zeros and Keifer in TPP and tried to play it off that his voice box was damaged in the accident before the big reveal of what was actually going on.
But maybe that would have been too obvious.
Or ya know. Maybe instead of trying to say it was really fale BB in OG metal gear and the real BB in MG2 (which still makes zero sense a week later..) They should have done something where the real Big Boss has to take you out. Or you actually kill and replace him completely from the story. Its still a giant retcon but its better then what they did IMO because the actual story in TPP is pretty anti climactic. It could use a more bombastic ending.
But maybe that would have been too obvious.
Or ya know. Maybe instead of trying to say it was really fale BB in OG metal gear and the real BB in MG2 (which still makes zero sense a week later..) They should have done something where the real Big Boss has to take you out. Or you actually kill and replace him completely from the story. Its still a giant retcon but its better then what they did IMO because the actual story in TPP is pretty anti climactic. It could use a more bombastic ending.
Well from what I read, they made it obvious anyway...
I would have liked Hayter voicing Big Boss at the very end, and explaining the Ground Zeroes' voice as being Faux Boss' perception of how the events of Ground Zeroes went down (that would explain things like him purposefully forgetting the medic's face).
funkystudent
Member
Well the fact Big Boss never had a horn or a fake arm had people guessing it was what was going on since the first plot details. I dont think anyone who has been following the game would be that shocked at its reveal.
Its dumb sure... I just think they could have had more fun with it during the game. Instead it feels underused and is basically just this small nagging thing you are reminded of every few hours.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Agreed, I don't think it will. I love that Kojima got everyone again one last time. He obviously hasnt neen married to the canon for a while and uses each game to elicit a certain feeling and reaction in players with the MGS toolbox he has in front of him since he couldn't go do other titles.
Edit: and MANNNN that fake out of the twins in the helicopter in the E3 trailer with "Les Enfents Terribles" voiced over it. Kojima you cheeky bastard.
igordennis
Member
So what has been the reception to Quiet's design so far from the OT? Did it go down like a mod said a while back? People that wanted to believe in Kojima da God(tm) thought it was a great explanation and thinks everyone is now ashamed of their words and deeds while the rest of the people (normal people that is) that doubted Kojima thought it was stupid and just a poor excuse for the awful design?
EmCeeGramr
Member
"Cough... now to see my good friend Kaz again..."
"Kaz?"
"You know, Miller."
"Master Miller? His first name was McDonnell."
"No, I'm fairly certain it was Kazuhira. Though that might have just been a nickname. Benedict "Kazuhira" Miller."
"I thought it was McDonnell Benedict Miller."
"Well, it was one of those. He lost his arm and leg-"
"I... don't remember that at all. He trained me in survival techniques."
"We had very good prosthetics in the 1980s. My double had a robot hand that could be a rocket, or teleport a guy to CQC them."
"Wait, then why did Ocelot need Liquid's arm?!"
"Poor Liquid... so obsessed with his fate."
"Yeah, you shouldn't have told him about being inferior. You really mangled the genetics crap too..."
"Oh, it was my double who met Liquid for a few months. I think. Maybe I did eventually? It's hard to remember. But he said that he was nice to little Liquid! I don't think he said anything about inferiority... That's strange... Besides, Liquid had little Mantis as a friend."
"no no no no no no no"
"Little Mantis could throw whales and control Metal Gears and teleport things and himself and did something with the braindead corpse of Volgin, still not sure what that was all about."
"I'm leaving, bye. Fuck off and die,"
"Kaz?"
"You know, Miller."
"Master Miller? His first name was McDonnell."
"No, I'm fairly certain it was Kazuhira. Though that might have just been a nickname. Benedict "Kazuhira" Miller."
"I thought it was McDonnell Benedict Miller."
"Well, it was one of those. He lost his arm and leg-"
"I... don't remember that at all. He trained me in survival techniques."
"We had very good prosthetics in the 1980s. My double had a robot hand that could be a rocket, or teleport a guy to CQC them."
"Wait, then why did Ocelot need Liquid's arm?!"
"Poor Liquid... so obsessed with his fate."
"Yeah, you shouldn't have told him about being inferior. You really mangled the genetics crap too..."
"Oh, it was my double who met Liquid for a few months. I think. Maybe I did eventually? It's hard to remember. But he said that he was nice to little Liquid! I don't think he said anything about inferiority... That's strange... Besides, Liquid had little Mantis as a friend."
"no no no no no no no"
"Little Mantis could throw whales and control Metal Gears and teleport things and himself and did something with the braindead corpse of Volgin, still not sure what that was all about."
"I'm leaving, bye. Fuck off and die,"
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
She's Starfire. There you go.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
god this story is so fucking awful
Yabberwocky
Member
It's so beautiful. (The whale was pretty great though. The whale should have been a boss battle. You were gone too soon, Moby Dick.)
The Silver
Member
Nah bruh, just think about what MGR2 could get out of them
parasites, son
oh yeah Konami, RIP Rising 2
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Not just that, MPO made MGSV look logical when we had only the trailers. Words were seemingly used as a power to control soldiers, just like Gene did. A lot of lines in the game refer to the parasites/language as being used to control people. It was if in MGSV someone used a copy of Gene/Viper's power to control troops (Skull Face being kind of a mirror of Big Boss, using this power to control his own unit XOF). And the name Viper, and this BB being known as "Venom", made it feel like there might be a connection. I really thought that for some reason MGSV was going to be a repeat of MPO, with BB realizing he is someone who can lead soldiers and has to otherwise others with bad intentions will.
The game as a whole actually feels a lot like it was a copy of MPO, and then details seemed to have been changed into what it became and kind of abandoned.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's gonna be interesting looking back a year from now. The retrospect is gonna be real with some people. Kojima still god though.
XANDER CAGE
Member
ah, the real killer, FUCKDIE
The entire Paz side-quest is straight up amazing.
Probably the best part of the game for me, at least from what I've seen so far.
Who would have expected Venom to hallucinate to that extent; maybe it was due to his lingering guilt with regards to her death in GZ.
Either way, it was really well done, hit me right in the feels.
T_T
Probably the best part of the game for me, at least from what I've seen so far.
Who would have expected Venom to hallucinate to that extent; maybe it was due to his lingering guilt with regards to her death in GZ.
Either way, it was really well done, hit me right in the feels.
T_T
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Does baby Mantis show his face?
This should have been the true ending.
entremet
Member
Hallucination? Interesting.
robotoboy20
Banned
Wow. I'll be honest, I didn't get all the pictures yet. If it is true that she's an illusion I feel very stupid now.
I think you're supposed to question reality through out the entire game honestly... things get so incredibly strange that some things are just flat out weird... somethings are obvious illusions... some aren't. Venom is constantly given conflicting information... and some of the things that happen in this game really made me question as to whether this guys was crazy, or what... Volgin for instance... somehow he's able to reconfigure into a solid flaming phantom, summon nightmare unicorns, and fire whales? All because he's driven by his own thirst for vengeance against Big Boss... Yet the parasites are what made the Cobra Unit unique!? I questioned so much as I've played it, that honestly I think we're meant to... The shrapnel in his noggin is obviously not going to just sit that not causing harm... I mean it's lodged in his skull...
funkystudent
Member
Random question but did Cam Clarke also voice Miller in MGS1?
The real tragedy of the Metal Gear saga is we never got more Cam Clarke Liquid.
I think I remember they went with a single voice in 4 because the Japanese VO for Ocelot died so over there they just stuck with the Liquid VO over there but over here they went with Ocelots actor.
The real tragedy of the Metal Gear saga is we never got more Cam Clarke Liquid.
I think I remember they went with a single voice in 4 because the Japanese VO for Ocelot died so over there they just stuck with the Liquid VO over there but over here they went with Ocelots actor.
Yep.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's ambiguous as to whether or not it was all a hallucination since Miller and Ocelot join VS in some of those scenes.
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