I'm on my phone atm but I'll list a few tonight, they're not too cutting but I really think this game is a 9 at most.
And no, I can't figure out either but there's a trophy for both developing a nuclear weapon and 'disposing' of one.
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I'm on my phone atm but I'll list a few tonight, they're not too cutting but I really think this game is a 9 at most.
And no, I can't figure out either but there's a trophy for both developing a nuclear weapon and 'disposing' of one.
Death Metalist
Member
Wrestlemania
Banned
I've found them in my database (or whatever that tab is called), but for some reason it said I couldn't do anything with them yet. Strange.
Actually, I just realised - it's probably FOB related, isn't it?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Especially the people who hated the hospital intro and have to play it over again.
Imagine what the reaction will be when they find out we knew a week before the game came out ;-)
I don't think the truth is even that big of a reveal they plant the seeds for it right at the start and I had my suspicions that it wasn't Big Boss after listening to the first round of cassette tapes where Ocelot is explaining to you Big Boss' previous missions.
In the end I don't think it matters in this game if you play as the real Big Boss or the fake one it was more that the way the game was structured in that second chapter was a complete mess and it was clearly missing content and missions. I mean just look at the truth was that really the best way to convey that? Making you replay the entire intro just for a few new scenes.
The gameplay is absolutely fantastic but everything else around it is such a massive disappointment for me if I were to rank my favourite mainline MGS games this would easily be last.
In the end I don't think it matters in this game if you play as the real Big Boss or the fake one it was more that the way the game was structured in that second chapter was a complete mess and it was clearly missing content and missions. I mean just look at the truth was that really the best way to convey that? Making you replay the entire intro just for a few new scenes.
The gameplay is absolutely fantastic but everything else around it is such a massive disappointment for me if I were to rank my favourite mainline MGS games this would easily be last.
rhophiehalul78
Member
The slow trainwreck has begun.
I noticed more posters expressing their disappointment over at the OT.
I noticed more posters expressing their disappointment over at the OT.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It's going to be a weird change in discussion once the majority have seen the full story. I mean, this is a series which went way off the rails in terms of having a coherent story a long long time ago, so I went in with no expectations for any great changes there. The actual gameplay has been a revelation though - a thousand times more ambitious than what Kojima Productions and pretty much entirely successful with it.
I hope the potential wailing over the story doesn't detract too much from that.
I hope the potential wailing over the story doesn't detract too much from that.
I just beat mission 46. Okay, what the hell. What a twist. I had my suspicions that Ishmael was Big Boss, but wow. What confirmed it was the tape saying Eli's DNA didn't match Big Boss'. So what does this mean for the story in the future of the chronological lore? Was it the real Big Boss that went full demon mode and tried to kill Solid Snake? Now that there are two Big Boss', how do we know who is responsible for what?
Also, does anyone have screencaps of the final timeline scroll? It was moving too fast for me to read it all.
Also, does anyone have screencaps of the final timeline scroll? It was moving too fast for me to read it all.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
It was in the final timeline, Venom was MG1 and Big Boss REAL was MG2.
Venom Snake is Big Boss in Metal Gear and the real Big Boss is in Metal Gear 2.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The best part of the "well it makes total sense for Big Boss to be quieter after all he's been through," posts is that the only times in the game when you hear the real Big Boss speak, it's either in the form of Ishmael constantly barking at you in the prologue or in the Man Who Sold the World tape where he's all too happy to talk for quite a while.
It will initially but once the sting wears off, it'll be remembered fondly.
I don't think that there's going to be some major backlash over this story anyways. It'll be divisive for sure but I think people are going to move on quickly.
Definitely will be the first mgs remembered fondly primarily for it's gameplay.
Death Metalist
Member
I think so too. This all reminds me of the MGS2 days, good times.
phoenix296
Member
After just beating the game and glancing over that thread I can't help but laugh. Big Boss is way too talkative after just coming out of a 9 year coma.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I think it's FOB related.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Something I don't get is what exactly was BB doing for those 9 years. Sitting in a bed beside Ahab twiddling his thumbs, hoping no one finds them until Ahab wakes up?? Like it just doesn't make sense why would Big Boss willingly take 9 years out just to get a body double to take more time out? Was BB also in a coma for 8 years? Was BB actually off gallivanting during the 9 years?
Well he was actually in a coma for at least 2 of them. Beyond that i doubt any actual thought was put into it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Imo the "he doesn't talk because he's not bb" thing doesn't make sense because he believes he's big boss, down to the voice being exactly the same, (seriously is there an explanation for that?). So if BB is talkative so should Venom technically. Instead we got this awkward stare.
the BIGGEST moment being this, instead of a rebuttal from this legendary leader, we get a random placed theme song that doesn't fit the moment in anyway shape or form. VS looks like he doesn't even know where he is.
^
The face of a man wondering what's for dinner.
the BIGGEST moment being this, instead of a rebuttal from this legendary leader, we get a random placed theme song that doesn't fit the moment in anyway shape or form. VS looks like he doesn't even know where he is.
^
The face of a man wondering what's for dinner.
This makes sense.
Thanks. That's helpful.
How does this impact the future lore, though? Who was it that rescued Sniper Wolf & took her in? Who rescued Gray Fox? A lot of things Big Boss did in the lore now feels split. Did the real Big Boss do it, or was it his phantom? Also, I hate how the timelines keep skipping over Solidus Snake. Why the fuck can't we get a definitive answer on him. I get he was the perfect clone, test tube baby, but why keep excluding him from the timelines?
Considering Zero got fucked up because of the parasites (pre-nanomachines nanomachines) was it Huey's A.I.'s that ran the Patriots - and later on his daughter Emma's? How long was the real Big Boss in a coma?
So many loose ends. My CE hasn't come in yet, so I haven't been able to watch the extra's blu-ray about the cut ending.
The Silver
Member
He was off setting up his great military nation that can defend against any kind of threat except for one rookie soldier.
Like REX and the Death Star its common courtesy to put in one weakness.
XANDER CAGE
Member
SomedayTheFire
Member
Doesn't the ending specify VS set up Outer Heaven? Unless BB was setting up Zanzibarland
The Silver
Member
Yeah I was talking about Zanzibar. Outer Heaven was a fortress, Z-Land was the nation.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
"On the Aerial Command Center menu, if the player look closely at Venom Snake's reflection, it shows the player avatar the player created"
KOOOOOOOOOOOOJJJJJJJJJJJJJIMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
It was there the entire time.
KOOOOOOOOOOOOJJJJJJJJJJJJJIMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
It was there the entire time.
SictorVullivan
Member
Stuff like this proves this was Kojima's intent from the get go and not some way to add a plot twist after development pressure from Konami.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Right, my bad. Thanks!
What? Is that through the entire game or just the endgame? That's pretty cool.
Emulated Hype
Member
the BIGGEST moment being this, instead of a rebuttal from this legendary leader, we get a random placed theme song that doesn't fit the moment in anyway shape or form. VS looks like he doesn't even know where he is.
^
The face of a man wondering what's for dinner.
He was probably just listening to one of the cassettes.
SictorVullivan
Member
Has anyone else noticed the white gloves in the ACC? Hinting at the medics gloves perhaps?
SomedayTheFire
Member
Right from the start. Zoom in while in the ACC at night. Super obvious.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Get-A-Load of This Guy Cam
^
The face of a man wondering what's for dinner.
Playing through the game now knowing all the major spoilers, there is some very obvious foreshadowing about Venom Snake not being Big Boss. A big one is Ocelot talking about how he got the nickname Shalashaska. He notes that the reasons behind the Afghans giving him the name is a mix of truth and fiction, plus the name itself is kind of a misunderstanding of the words as well. This certainly foreshadows the legend of Big Boss.
SictorVullivan
Member
I know and agree, just some people earlier were suggesting the plot is the way it is due to cut content and then Kojima scrambling to get a twist in the game. It's clearly not the case.
Cob32
Member
God that made me laugh.
Holy shit, hahaha
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Exactly.punished "venom" halpert
Honestly I would too because that ride goes on for way too long.
Lmfao
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Imo the "he doesn't talk because he's not bb" thing doesn't make sense because he believes he's big boss, down to the voice being exactly the same, (seriously is there an explanation for that?). So if BB is talkative so should Venom technically. Instead we got this awkward stare.
the BIGGEST moment being this, instead of a rebuttal from this legendary leader, we get a random placed theme song that doesn't fit the moment in anyway shape or form. VS looks like he doesn't even know where he is.
^
The face of a man wondering what's for dinner.
Wow. Watched the video. That entire scene was awful given Venom's reaction and the music cuing. Music was odd and ill-fitting. Seemed like the music was perfect for a stare off between him and Skull Face, however.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with basing a story around 'the man not living up to the legend'. It just didn't need to be a completely different man. Kojima has gotten too attached to the character of Big Boss and refuses to actually let him go bad. This franchise deserved to end better than with another doppelgänger being thrown lazily into the mix.
Exactly.
He has the same voice as Big Bass, has his memories, moves just like the real one, everyone speaks to him as if he's Big Bass, and basically we're led to believe he is Big Bass. That argument doesn't really work.
Silent Snake is worst Snake. Johnny Sasaki's shits have more personality: "Oh.. my stomach", see what I mean? Silent Snake would never say that.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
During one of the Quiets tapes as well, where Miller is baffled that VS is keeping Quiet on MB, he says 'they're starting to suspect HIM..' and it sounds like he's going to say something else but cuts himself off.
Some very subtle stuff, some not. My favorite is during the prologue, where if you die it's mission failed, ishmael dies it's time paradox. That ones the best IMO.
GhostTrick
Banned
The most obvious moment being when you firstget Huey and the IA pod says "Snake ? No... its not you..."
schlongdog
Banned
Believing he's Big Boss and having his memories doesn't indicate to me his personality will be 100% Big Boss
In fact, this is clearly the case
In fact, this is clearly the case
SomedayTheFire
Member
Some in the OT have noticed the reflection in the helicopter :O
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