Support NeoGAF

[Doctor_Thomas]

yeah. you can't just pin the blame on kojima or the corporate entity of konami, but in kojima's defence i can't imagine he's pleased with the fact a pivotal mission like 51 had to get cut. if you read his tweets you can see he talks a lot about the gameplay rather than story. that's what he's most proud of and where his priorities went.

I honestly thinkm, regardless of anything else, Kojima and the entire team should be proud. They still made a fantastic game, even if the story isn't what we expected or has massive chunks missing. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't have put 60 hours into it already.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Hmm I've done all wandering soldiers side ops now but still have one photo missing? Paz isn't doing anything now

 

[aravuus]

I've been a bit ill for the past 4 or 5 days (which has also made it possible for me to play the game so fucking much lol), so I'm a bit surprised I seem to have gotten mostly everything about the story. Couple of questions, though: why did they do the Boss switcharoo, again? I think someone mentioned the real Big Boss had something more important to do than fuck around with the Diamond Dogs, what was this more important business? I get the feeling that it's super obvious, or it'll become super obvious when I start replaying the Solid Snake games, but right now I'm just drawing a massive blank.

And what happened to the "fake"/phantom BB after TPP? I think I glanced a mention of someone killing him in the timeline thing after mission 46, but I'm not sure.

e: also: fucking awesome video game, but such a terrible mgs

 

[Spaghetti]

I honestly thinkm, regardless of anything else, Kojima and the entire team should be proud. They still made a fantastic game, even if the story isn't what we expected or has massive chunks missing. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't have put 60 hours into it already.

yeah, for real. i started all over again so i could hold on to quiet and i'm still having a blast. it just plays so well.

 

[Claude]

Hmm I've done all wandering soldiers side ops now but still have one photo missing? Paz isn't doing anything now

Do a side-op or two, then go back.

------------

Did the story ever explain what was up with Miller's eyes? I can't remember.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Do a side-op or two, then go back.

------------

Did the story ever explain what was up with Miller's eyes? I can't remember.

I guess his torture made him blind, he passes it off as his eyes hurt in the light.

 

[nOoblet16]

I think I'm done with this game for now. I'll come back when MGO is online and then maybe try to S rank everything bit by bit but right now I think it's time for me to get back to my main game which is Destiny PvP, especially with TTK coming out.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

And what happened to the "fake"/phantom BB after TPP? I think I glanced a mention of someone killing him in the timeline thing after mission 46, but I'm not sure.

Snake killed him at the end of MG1.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I've been a bit ill for the past 4 or 5 days (which has also made it possible for me to play the game so fucking much lol), so I'm a bit surprised I seem to have gotten mostly everything about the story. Couple of questions, though: why did they do the Boss switcharoo, again? I think someone mentioned the real Big Boss had something more important to do than fuck around with the Diamond Dogs, what was this more important business? I get the feeling that it's super obvious, or it'll become super obvious when I start replaying the Solid Snake games, but right now I'm just drawing a massive blank.

And what happened to the "fake"/phantom BB after TPP? I think I glanced a mention of someone killing him in the timeline thing after mission 46, but I'm not sure.

e: also: fucking awesome video game, but such a terrible mgs

BB was building outer heaven, fuck knows what that means cos I thought that's what we were doing >_>

And yeah Solid Snaje kills VS in MG1 in place of BB, heck of a retcon.

 

[Zomba13]

Just finished it. Welp... fuck.

I like the actual game playing part of it but the story and shit.. Just seemed weird. I listened to every tape I got so I got plenty of info it's just some of those tapes could have been made into cutscenes like the interrogations or the Skullface/Codetalker chats.

And you have this unresolved Eli stuff. Unless there is another set of missions after these credits but I have all missions up to 50.

Parasites are old timey nanomachines and explain the Cobra unit nicely but still Psycho Mantis is still the only real magic.

Have I missed something? I've just done Tutorial: Truth. What happened with Eli and Shagalopolus? Why didn't Liquid use that in MGS1? Why was Mantis such a pushover in MGS1 if he can control giant mechs? Why could I never use Battle Gear?

At least Quite was awesome and had a sad and touching end and Huey got development to make him stand out from just a half arsed Otacon clone.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Just finished it. Welp... fuck.

I like the actual game playing part of it but the story and shit.. Just seemed weird. I listened to every tape I got so I got plenty of info it's just some of those tapes could have been made into cutscenes like the interrogations or the Skullface/Codetalker chats.

And you have this unresolved Eli stuff. Unless there is another set of missions after these credits but I have all missions up to 50.

Parasites are old timey nanomachines and explain the Cobra unit nicely but still Psycho Mantis is still the only real magic.

Have I missed something? I've just done Tutorial: Truth. What happened with Eli and Shagalopolus? Why didn't Liquid use that in MGS1? Why was Mantis such a pushover in MGS1 if he can control giant mechs? Why could I never use Battle Gear?

At least Quite was awesome and had a sad and touching end and Huey got development to make him stand out from just a half arsed Otacon clone.

Mission 51 was cut.... there's a video floating around of the unfinished cutscenes/storyboards if someone has the link.... a victim of whatever happened at Konami.

 

[Spaghetti]

I've been a bit ill for the past 4 or 5 days (which has also made it possible for me to play the game so fucking much lol), so I'm a bit surprised I seem to have gotten mostly everything about the story. Couple of questions, though: why did they do the Boss switcharoo, again? I think someone mentioned the real Big Boss had something more important to do than fuck around with the Diamond Dogs, what was this more important business? I get the feeling that it's super obvious, or it'll become super obvious when I start replaying the Solid Snake games, but right now I'm just drawing a massive blank.

And what happened to the "fake"/phantom BB after TPP? I think I glanced a mention of someone killing him in the timeline thing after mission 46, but I'm not sure.

e: also: fucking awesome video game, but such a terrible mgs

zero and ocelot made the medic big boss' body double in order to protect him when big boss finally comes out of the coma. venom snake is meant to draw fire from other private military groups and factions like XOF while big boss is off creating the true outer heaven.

venom snake dies in the place of big boss as he was supposedly killed in mg1. that means instead of big boss being thought dead in mg1 and returning in mg2, he simply used his decoy to cheat death again.

 

[nOoblet16]

Just finished it. Welp... fuck.

I like the actual game playing part of it but the story and shit.. Just seemed weird. I listened to every tape I got so I got plenty of info it's just some of those tapes could have been made into cutscenes like the interrogations or the Skullface/Codetalker chats.

And you have this unresolved Eli stuff. Unless there is another set of missions after these credits but I have all missions up to 50.

Parasites are old timey nanomachines and explain the Cobra unit nicely but still Psycho Mantis is still the only real magic.

Have I missed something? I've just done Tutorial: Truth. What happened with Eli and Shagalopolus? Why didn't Liquid use that in MGS1? Why was Mantis such a pushover in MGS1 if he can control giant mechs? Why could I never use Battle Gear?

At least Quite was awesome and had a sad and touching end and Huey got development to make him stand out from just a half arsed Otacon clone.

Regarding Liquid and Shagalopolushod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk&hd=1

 

[Spaghetti]

BB was building outer heaven, fuck knows what that means cos I thought that's what we were doing >_>

And yeah Solid Snaje kills VS in MG1 in place of BB, heck of a retcon.

diamond dogs is a for-profit military operation. the real big boss was doing something loftier in creating a military nation. diamond dogs and venom snake were all a decoy to distract the world from noticing big boss effectively creating his own country under the noses of all the intelligence agencies and other PFs.

 

[ZeroX03]

Parasites are old timey nanomachines and explain the Cobra unit nicely but still Psycho Mantis is still the only real magic.

I don't think parasites explain The Sorrow. How Sorrow and Mantis manage to survive death in MGS4 is beyond me.

 

[aravuus]

Snake killed him at the end of MG1.

BB was building outer heaven, fuck knows what that means cos I thought that's what we were doing >_>

And yeah Solid Snaje kills VS in MG1 in place of BB, heck of a retcon.

zero and ocelot made the medic big boss' body double in order to protect him when big boss finally comes out of the coma. venom snake is meant to draw fire from other private military groups and factions like XOF while big boss is off creating the true outer heaven.

venom snake dies in the place of big boss as he was supposedly killed in mg1. that means instead of big boss being thought dead in mg1 and returning in mg2, he simply used his decoy to cheat death again.

Yeah okay, I think everything makes sense now, thanks

Man, the plot was definitely not what I expected (and hoped) for it to be. I like the fact that there still were twists, but most of them just felt so.. Inconsequential. Like Volgin being the Man on Fire. When it was revealed I was like "ok, cool, I guess", then he's dead and nothing ever comes of it ever again.

 

[Zomba13]

Mission 51 was cut.... there's a video floating around of the unfinished cutscenes/storyboards if someone has the link.... a victim of whatever happened at Konami.

Regarding Liquid and Shagalopolushod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk&hd=1

Wow. So another reason to Fuck Konami.

I did see a headline on Kotaku about cut content but ignored it like the plague because I hadn't finished. That reeeeeeeeeally sucks. Will watch that video.


On the topic of what actually made it into the game, I appreciate the twist with Big Boss and the Phantom and how on the first time through you kinda think that Ishmael is BB's instincts guiding him but turned out was the real BB and you were a fake. I liked how it gets around BB having a horn and a rocket hand by it actually being a fake.

I don't like how it just needlessly complicates things with there being two BBs.

I don't think parasites explain The Sorrow. How Sorrow and Mantis manage to survive death in MGS4 is beyond me.

Oh right. I guess that in the Metal Gear universe everything is science except psychic abilities which both the Sorrow and Mantis have which explains why they can become ghosts and mess around from beyond the grave ebcause Psychic energy is real. Everything else is Parasites, Nanomachins or Cyborg Enhancements (or a combination) depending on the game.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

K, done the Paz stuff, so I think that's all the story stuff now. Think I can call it quits now with the game.

How do you get this scene though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvJx0p2eu4

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Wow. So another reason to Fuck Konami.

Or to fuck Kojima for being unable to deliver a complete game despite being over time and budget.

 

[nOoblet16]

Wow. So another reason to Fuck Konami.

I did see a headline on Kotaku about cut content but ignored it like the plague because I hadn't finished. That reeeeeeeeeally sucks. Will watch that video.


On the topic of what actually made it into the game, I appreciate the twist with Big Boss and the Phantom and how on the first time through you kinda think that Ishmael is BB's instincts guiding him but turned out was the real BB and you were a fake. I liked how it gets around BB having a horn and a rocket hand by it actually being a fake.

I don't like how it just needlessly complicates things with there being two BBs.

Like I said before, it's not all fuck Konami eventhough they are to be blamed partly due to their impatience. But Kojima is to be blamed too, you can't just expect him to be given all the time in the world when he is already overbudget and overdue...he needs to meet the deadlines too and as such he should have approached things while keeping that in consideration rather than be so ambitious that the entire chapter 2 ends up being unfinished.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

K, done the Paz stuff, so I think that's all the story stuff now. Think I can call it quits now with the game.

How do you get this scene though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvJx0p2eu4

You need to have a high relationship with Quiet, I assume.

 

[nOoblet16]

K, done the Paz stuff, so I think that's all the story stuff now. Think I can call it quits now with the game.

How do you get this scene though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvJx0p2eu4

Max bond with Quiet.
Man someone needs to replace Quiet with Kojima's model there on the PC version, give him a taste of his own medicine

 

[Alienous]

Max bond with Quiet.
Man someone needs to replace Quiet with Kojima's model there on the PC version, give him a taste of his own medicine

Haha, yes.

Kojima's true legacy.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Max bond with Quiet.
Man someone needs to replace Quiet with Kojima's model there on the PC version, give him a taste of his own medicine

I had max bond, never saw it =/

 

[Zomba13]

So I just found out that you can apparently keep Quiet with you if you use the butterfly emblem before doing her last mission. It sucks. I used her all the time, I got all her unlocks. She was the best buddy and it sucked to see her go but now apparently I find out there it says in the guide that if you equip the butterfly emblem you can keep her!

And there isn't a way to get her back!

There has to be a Cheat Engine (PC) way right? I've spent over 60 hours and now I've permanently lost a useful buddy and I could have kept her if I did a super obscure thing only mentioned in the strategy guide or something.

 

[aravuus]

How do you get this scene though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvJx0p2eu4

... What the fuck lmao

Oh hey, is there any sort of NG+, btw? Would love to do another playthrough with all the end-game items later this year. Or at least some super items.

e: scratch that, I'd love to do a complete playthrough with Quiet as a buddy

 

[LAA]

Argh! You lose quiet forever if you finish her story!?
She was so handy and all that development I wasted and never did for her!
Why couldnt she have just been kept "un-canonically"?

I fear some missions will be even harder to S rank now without her...

 

[Spaghetti]

thinking about the multiple endings, they all seem suspiciously close together. i have a theory they were meant to be endings for each chapter of the game before they were pulled down to just 2 chapters. i would have liked more hints towards the truth ending, venom snake unpicking his brain washing to the point where ocelot has to start using the control phrases/noises (which i speculate the MSX loading noise in the ending was) to keep him from going too far into discovering the truth.

 

[Bumhead]

It's weird, after 64 hours and completing the game, I don't feel like I'm ready to stop playing it yet. I don't feel like I'm done.

Not sure whether that's a testament to the quality of the overall gameplay loop, or because the ending was so unsatisfying and lacking in closure. I'm hoping it's the former, buts it's probably a mix of the two.

Have many of you carried on just doing Side Ops and building up Mother Base beyond the end credits?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

thinking about the multiple endings, they all seem suspiciously close together. i have a theory they were meant to be endings for each chapter of the game before they were pulled down to just 2 chapters. i would have liked more hints towards the truth ending, venom snake unpicking his brain washing to the point where ocelot has to start using the control phrases/noises (which i speculate the MSX loading noise in the ending was) to keep him from going too far into discovering the truth.

Woah, where was this?

 

[aravuus]

... What the fuck lmao

Oh hey, is there any sort of NG+, btw? Would love to do another playthrough with all the end-game items later this year. Or at least some super items.

e: scratch that, I'd love to do a complete playthrough with Quiet as a buddy

Waaaaaaaaait a second

You can replay missions

Fucking lmao I'm slow today

It's weird, after 64 hours and completing the game, I don't feel like I'm ready to stop playing it yet. I don't feel like I'm done.

Not sure whether that's a testament to the quality of the overall gameplay loop, or because the ending was so unsatisfying and lacking in closure. I'm hoping it's the former, buts it's probably a mix of the two.

Have many of you carried on just doing Side Ops and building up Mother Base beyond the end credits?

I feel exactly the same, for probably the reasons you pointed out. It's time for MGS1 now, but I kinda feel like infiltrating outposts and looking for those sweet, sweet S++ pokemans

 

[Zomba13]

thinking about the multiple endings, they all seem suspiciously close together. i have a theory they were meant to be endings for each chapter of the game before they were pulled down to just 2 chapters. i would have liked more hints towards the truth ending, venom snake unpicking his brain washing to the point where ocelot has to start using the control phrases/noises (which i speculate the MSX loading noise in the ending was) to keep him from going too far into discovering the truth.

Yeah I'd have liked for there to be more hints that maaaaaybe Venom isn't BB. I liked how the DNA test was negative on the relation but then Ocelot mentions that Eli is crafty and was probably suspicious and did something. It creates doubt not to BB but to Eli being Liquid, is he really Liquid? Just a coincidence? Did he pull a trick to hide it? But then he knows he's a clone of BB and calls Venom Father which then makes you question why he's mess with the test. It makes you think maybe he's the one who is confused and just acting a clone but is really just a bratty child soldier? And then you find out that you play as V and not BB and then the DNA test not matching makes sense and Ocelots reasoning makes sense and it all lines up.

Shame there wasn't more of that. I mean, there were some hints, mainly in the beginning with the whole 3 people in hospital and doubts about Ishmael being real but they could have played with the whole hallucinations and not trusting what you are seeing a bit more. Especially when The Man On Fire was confirmed real from the start with Ocelot mentioning it in a tape. Would have been nice to see more weird things and the player not knowing if it was side effects of the coma and massive metal spike in the brain or just Metal Gear being Metal Gear.

 

[Spaghetti]

Woah, where was this?

nowhere, i'm speculating.

well, mostly. i have a feeling some control phrases are in there though. like april 30th was one of raiden's control phrase in mgs2.

there's a lot unsaid about big boss using venom snake as a decoy, but sutherland's performance in the final cutscene infers something very sinister, as well as the timeline showing that venom snake was killed in big boss' place at outer heaven. venom snake was a means of keeping the real big boss safe at any cost, even if it means being sacrificed.

i don't know how much of it was cut, and how much of it is just left up to the player to decide, but there's definitely something dark going on. ocelot used brainwashing on himself to 'forget' about the decoy not being the real big boss though. i have a feeling the control words for venom snake are the same for ocelot, who is unconsciously saying them. there's a reference to how ocelot brainwashes himself when you tranq him, and in the truth tapes when he says "two plus two equals five".

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

It's weird, after 64 hours and completing the game, I don't feel like I'm ready to stop playing it yet. I don't feel like I'm done.

Not sure whether that's a testament to the quality of the overall gameplay loop, or because the ending was so unsatisfying and lacking in closure. I'm hoping it's the former, buts it's probably a mix of the two.

Have many of you carried on just doing Side Ops and building up Mother Base beyond the end credits?

I am, I'm enjoying Side Ops and building resources.

 

[Bumhead]

Why was Mantis such a pushover in MGS1 if he can control giant mechs?

The power of switching to controller port 2 trumps all.

But seriously, I think that grinds on me more than any other unresolved element of MGSV. Selanthrapus being more advanced than REX can be explained I think. I mean Episode 51 seems to suggest that Selanthrapus was entirely destroyed this time, and I suppose there's a certain degree of logic in an attempt to replicate the design for future Metal Gears not managing to be as good. After all, Selanthrapus looks a LOT like Rex before it stands up.

Mantis however.. doesn't sit as well with me. He's menacing as fuck in MGSV. I absolutely love his inclusion and portrayal as a character. There's a strong element of horror and real power to everything he touches. But I'm now thinking back to Mantis in MGS1 and he doesn't feel anywhere close to that.

 

[RK9039]

K, done the Paz stuff, so I think that's all the story stuff now. Think I can call it quits now with the game.

How do you get this scene though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvJx0p2eu4

LOL

Words deeds

 

[ZeroX03]

The justification behind Sahelanthropus being fancier than any other Metal Gears is that it doesn't technically work, and that Mantis is controlling it. Of course that begs the question why Mantis doesn't just do the same thing in MGS1. I like the Shagohod because it just seemed like a really juiced up tank but Peace Walker and Sahelanthropus really push the boundaries of power creep. And Mantis seems far stronger than his MGS1 incarnation, without the fun.

 

[OlGreenEyes]

The man who sold the world doesn't really fit when I think about it. How did he sell the world?.

You're on the right track so far with picking up on the clues, but there are a ton more. Try to figure it out

 

[Alienous]

The justification behind Sahelanthropus being fancier than any other Metal Gears is that it doesn't technically work, and that Mantis is controlling it. Of course that begs the question why Mantis doesn't just do the same thing in MGS1. I like the Shagohod because it just seemed like a really juiced up tank but Peace Walker and Sahelanthropus really push the boundaries of power creep. And Mantis seems far stronger than his MGS1 incarnation, without the fun.

I thought that was really smart.

Sahaelanthropus is just a marketing device. Something big and shiny looking that isn't practically functional. Its armour is cheap, for instance. But commanded by Mantis it becomes formidable.

That was a good piece of writing in explaining how it could be so technically advanced.

 

[Xater]

God I love playing this game, but I am so disappointed by the narrative. It all just is so disjointed and feels inconsequential. The whole parasite thing got more on my nerves than nano-machines. The ending just feels completely unfinished and is dumb. I mean people saw the twist from miles away and it kinda contributes nothing to the overall narrative except for "Hey Big Boss is not that bad mmmkay?"

I was really hoping we would get to see Boss' descent but I guess Kojima fell too much in love with him so he can't be a bad guy.

This game being it is probably for the best.

 

[ZeroX03]

I thought that was really smart.

Sahaelanthropus is just a marketing device. Something big and shiny looking that isn't practically functional. Its armour is cheap, for instance. But commanded by Mantis it becomes formidable.

That was a good piece of writing in explaining how it could be so technically advanced.

Well yes it explains Sahelanthropus, but it doesn't really explain Mantis. It just goes from one unanswerable question to another.

 

[Alienous]

Well yes it explains Sahelanthropus, but it doesn't really explain Mantis. It just goes from one unanswerable question to another.

Mantis being a child prodigy of psychokinesis didn't strike me as odd.

He's a kid who is basically a weapon. He doesn't even really have a personality. As he becomes more human I can imagine he becomes less powerful. He just becomes a weird dude who doesn't seem too interested in destroying things or feeding off of rage, but he does stuff like makes people simulate relationships. He's just a weird man, and that's believable to me.

 

[Wavering Radiant]

God I love playing this game, but I am so disappointed by the narrative. It all just is so disjointed and feels inconsequential. The whole parasite thing got more on my nerves than nano-machines. The ending just feels completely unfinished and is dumb. I mean people saw the twist from miles away and it kinda contributes nothing to the overall narrative except for "Hey Big Boss is not that bad mmmkay?"

I was really hoping we would get to see Boss' descent but I guess Kojima fell too much in love with him so he can't be a bad guy.

This game being it is probably for the best.

Yup one of my biggest disappointments. Especially since it was teased so much in trailers ("Kaz, I'm already a Demon." etc) makes it feel like false advertising

 

[nOoblet16]

Well yes it explains Sahelanthropus, but it doesn't really explain Mantis. It just goes from one unanswerable question to another.

They say kids have stronger emotions and affect their surrounding (using whatever in game explanation they have for it) more than adults.

 

[Segaswirl]

Finished all the main missions about 3 days ago and i'm still annoyed about losing quiet. How am I going to cheese those S ranks now!?

Spoiler

I suppose this feeling of loss is what Kojima was going for :'(

 

[Xater]

Finished all the main missions about 3 days ago and i'm still annoyed about losing quiet. How am I going to cheese those S ranks now!?

Spoiler

I suppose this feeling of loss is what Kojima was going for :'(

Fuck you are right. Totally forgot how OP she is for S-Ranks. Now I don't know if I want to do that trophy anymore.

 

[Spaghetti]

I mean people saw the twist from miles away and it kinda contributes nothing to the overall narrative except for "Hey Big Boss is not that bad mmmkay?"

i see it as the opposite. he's allowing one of his most loyal men, who flung themselves in front of an explosion to save him, to draw fire away from him during an immensely dangerous period of his life. not to mention they basically erased venom snake's original personality through the brainwashing. they effectively killed the medic in order to create a body double for big boss.

plus, the end timeline basically says venom snake is killed in big boss' place at outer heaven, and i think he was brainwashed to do that willingly to protect big boss. that's his whole purpose for existing, to protect big boss at all costs.

 

[ZeroX03]

Mantis being a child prodigy of psychokinesis didn't strike me as odd.

He's a kid who is basically a weapon. He doesn't even really have a personality. As he becomes more human I can imagine he becomes less powerful. He just becomes a weird dude who doesn't seem too interested in destroying things or feeding off of rage, but he does stuff like makes people simulate relationships. He's just a weird man, and that's believable to me.

But that contradicts MGS4 where he's a lot more powerful with the same personality as MGS1. It makes sense his powers would grow over time, but he apparently he goes from incredibly powerful to threatening to incredibly powerful?

They say kids have stronger emotions and affect their surrounding (using whatever in game explanation they have for it) more than adults.

Explains why Liquid was the one affecting Mantis over Skull Face. Doesn't explain how he's so god damn powerful.

 

[aravuus]

I was really hoping we would get to see Boss' descent but I guess Kojima fell too much in love with him so he can't be a bad guy.

Yeah, this is what I expected and wanted the story to be about

 

[Alienous]

But that contradicts MGS4 where he's a lot more powerful with the same personality as MGS1. It makes sense his powers would grow over time, but he apparently he goes from incredibly powerful to threatening to incredibly powerful?

Is he powerful in MGS4? I know he controlled the B&B's, but that's similar to him controlling Meryl. I don't think he doesn't anything on par with creating a gigantic fire whale in MGS4.

As I said before I just see it as Mantis in TPP being at his prime level of power. This is the Mantis who has been experimented on and is having his powers trained by a Russian organisation, not the far more laid back adult Mantis who chooses to manipulate people rather than destroy them.