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[Superman0]

It could just be Big Boss stuck between a rock and a hard place where because of The Patriots, he has to send Solid Snake in to fight Venom... he feeds him wrong info to keep Venom alive as long as possible, but has faith in Solid to survive all the shit he puts him through, cause at the end of the day... both are his "sons"?

I dunno, I'm spit-balling here.

From the truth tapes, real BB doesn't seem to have any familial bond to his "sons" at all. He said he will just treat them like a normal person. He sent SS on the mission in hopes that he failed, and didn't expect him to succeed in killing Venom. SS successfully kill real BB in MG 2. Well, this is all my conjectures.

My only issue is who the heck was in charge of Cipher/Patriot during this time period, since Zero should be incapacitated after suffering that parasite attack. I don't find Dr. Clark and Donald Anderson to be capable leader/mastermind. The AI/Patriot still have to operate within a certain parameter set by Zero so they shouldn't be that formidable. Why would real BB with Batman Ocelot at his side be afraid of a cripple Cipher? I hope there is part 6 to answer some of these questions.

 

[JTripper]

Why? This game seems like it's got an ultra meta message of anyone (aka the player) becoming Big Boss/Snake. This game is a Big Boss Simulation. Way more so than any other MGS before it. It also makes a statement about how much we are tied to our phones through the iDroid. I realized that after browsing Amazon (Mother Base), then Wikipedia (the encyclopedia), then Uber (helicopter), vaping for a couple of hours (Phantom cigar), then putting on my headphones and taking a guard post to White Horse.

This Snake is a vaping, music stealing, dog loving, iDroid addicted hipster. Player synthesis should be like 100%.

Like in MGS2, how Big Shell was a simulation of Shadow Moses and Raiden is supposed to become a new Snake.

If Snake Eater was the MGS1 of the Big Boss era, MGSV would be the MGS2 of it in that respect. Except this was a successful simulation whereas Big Shell went horribly wrong. Kinda interesting.

 

[jgminto]

What's this talk of a butterfly icon? I never had a butterfly as my icon and unlocked Quiet's side-op/mission.

 

[Lernaean]

yep

Ehh, that sucks. There is no possible way to have both?
I mean for a game that relies on replayability with its mission structure, it's dumb to remove an important part of the gameplay...

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why?

Because the medic is not a character.

 

[Jarmel]

That ending is fucking stupid. Why would you even go down that route? It only serves to undercut the entire game.

Also was it ever explained why Skullface tried to kill BB?

 

[jgminto]

My only issue is who the heck was in charge of Cipher/Patriot during this time period, since Zero should be incapacitated after suffering that parasite attack. I don't find Dr. Clark and Donald Anderson to be capable leader/mastermind. The AI/Patriot still have to operate within a certain parameter set by Zero so they shouldn't be that formidable. Why would real BB with Batman Ocelot at his side be afraid of a cripple Cipher? I hope there is part 6 to answer some of these questions.

I think it was implied that Strangelove had started the creation of the AI network at this point.

 

[DNAbro]

Because the medic is not a character.

well the medic is supposed to represent you which is why you put in your name, birthday, and create a character.

 

[____]

well the medic is supposed to represent you which is why you put in your name, birthday, and create a character.

I'm wondering why BB had a passport with my name and birthday on it.

Also, it was hilarious being a black guy and creating a black guy avatar. Playing mission 46 had me dying of laughter and shaking my head.

 

[razzmahtazz]

I actually love the idea of the Phantom Snake. I dunno why, it works for me. The shit cut out, that doesn't though.

Big Boss is essentially just a legend, a myth, cobbled together over decades from the actions of different people. People have fought and died over just that... a myth, propagated infinitum.

I was reading unique gameplay stories in reddit the other day. Non-spoiler stuff so the posters didnt know about the twist. The stories were incredible. You read all of them and somehow combine them all into the Legend of Big Boss.

 

[MattyG]

well the medic is supposed to represent you which is why you put in your name, birthday, and create a character.

But why the medic? That's just a create a character with my name and birthday and the likeness I gave them. At least with Raiden there was a character there. He was supposed to represent the player, but he had backstory and personality. The medic does two things before he becomes Venom; 1) he cuts Paz open and takes a bomb out and then 2) fists a second bomb out of her. That's it. That medic isn't me, he's a random person that I know nothing about with my name and birthday slapped on.

So while he's supposed to represent me, I don't feel that he is because I barely even gave him a thought before they shoved him into things. He's not an avatar of me, he's a character with no character that I assumed the role of just before he assumed the role of Big Boss.

I was reading unique gameplay stories in reddit the other day. Non-spoiler stuff so the posters didnt know about the twist. The stories were incredible. You read all of them and somehow combine them all into the Legend of Big Boss.

This is a cool way of looking at things though. I guess my problem isn't with the fact that "we" are supposed to be Big Boss - that's awesome, especially when looked at through the lense of the freedom and agency of an open world game - it's the whole medic angle that bothers me.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This is a cool way of looking at things though. I guess my problem isn't with the fact that "we" are supposed to be Big Boss - that's awesome, especially when looked at through the lense of the freedom and agency of an open world game - it's the whole medic angle that bothers me.

Could've been the medic, could've been the pilot, could've been a random soldier picked up from MB, it didn't matter who it was. It just so happens the Medic was chosen and given lines-distorted lines from keifer.

 

[Jarmel]

The fact that they had Kiefer voicing the medic too is just idiotic.

I would have been more likely to accept Venom was a clone than some random medic.

 

[Enthus]

I found out about the butterfly emblem after I had already unlocked Side op 150. I was really planning on using her to S rank old missions. I suppose I have to start using D-Dog.

 

[MattyG]

I found out about the butterfly emblem after I had already unlocked Side op 150. I was really planning on using her to S rank old missions. I suppose I have to start using D-Dog.

Someone please explain this to me. I keep seeing it mentioned, but I don't get what the emblem is and what it does.

 

[mgs2master2]

Someone please explain this to me. I keep seeing it mentioned, but I don't get what the emblem is and what it does.

emblem is the butterfly emblem. It is quiet's symbol. You use it, it basically prevents her from leaving and preventing the mission from popping up in the first place

 

[Sub_Level]

Someone please explain this to me. I keep seeing it mentioned, but I don't get what the emblem is and what it does.

Customize emblem in your idroid in ACC. Use Butterfly codename as Front design. Keeps Quiet from leaving.

 

[MattyG]

emblem is the butterfly emblem. It is quiet's symbol. You use it, it basically prevents her from leaving and preventing the mission from popping up in the first place

Customize emblem in your idroid in ACC. Use Butterfly codename as Front design. Keeps Quiet from leaving.

Does it need to be equipped before you do mission 46, or do you have time to equip it?

 

[mgs2master2]

Does it need to be equipped before you do mission 46, or do you have time to equip it?

pretty much needs to be equipped anytime before the mission and kept on for the duration of the game.




Also i was just thinking. If BB hated venom or something to that extent. Why did BB pick up after Venom's work? Venom was the original creator of outer heaven. BB basically picked up where he left off.

It makes me think there was more to it than big boss basically saying "yo thanks for being me, here comes Snake, Good luck"

 

[Lernaean]

Does it need to be equipped before you do mission 46, or do you have time to equip it?

Before 41 iirc.
And I really hate this one. It soured me with the entire game. And i LOVE the game...

 

[MattyG]

Before 41 iirc.
And I really hate this one. It soured me with the entire game. And i LOVE the game...

pretty much needs to be equipped anytime before the mission and kept on for the duration of the game.

What the fuck, this is some bullshit. I checked after 46 and she was still available for deployment, but I'm guessing she'll leave the minute I do a mission. Goddammit.

 

[WrenchNinja]

That's literally been what he's doing for years. Metal Gear is born out of Kojima's love for B action movies. It's just him trying to transplant cheesy one liners into a a more serious context.

Anyway, if we're using gameplays events as explanation, he grows the horn because he makes a nuke. Likely Metal Gear.

"That takes care of the cremation" is a one liner. What he says makes no sense even with him trying to be metaphorical

 

[Lernaean]

What the fuck, this is some bullshit. I checked after 46 and she was still available for deployment, but I'm guessing she'll leave the minute I do a mission. Goddammit.

I think the whole point is to NOT do SO150 and Mission 45. 46 is fine.

 

[VR_RaidenXOF]

I guess major props need to go out to Python Selkan for finding that Hair Shadow thing in GZ. I guess that means we can consider it a simulation for Venom, much like the Tanker being VR for Raiden. Damn these games are so similar...!

 

[____]

I think the whole point is to NOT do SO150 and Mission 45. 46 is fine.

But 45 and its cutscenes are SO good.

 

[Lernaean]

But 45 and its cutscenes are SO good.

So is Quiet /cry

 

[MattyG]

https://i.imgur.com/pBZzovN.jpg

I really like this theory.

I think the whole point is to NOT do SO150 and Mission 45. 46 is fine.

Oh okay. I thought she'd leave and then the mission would trigger, sounds like it's the other way around. Phew.

I guess major props need to go out to Python Selkan for finding that Hair Shadow thing in GZ. I guess that means we can consider it a simulation for Venom, much like the Tanker being VR for Raiden. Damn these games are so similar...!

Do you have a link for this?

 

[____]

So is Quiet /cry

This is true. I'm a little upset I did it without once using quiet to shoot a grenade. I meant to but forgot ;_;

 

[Lernaean]

You think there is a chance they will patch her back in after a while?

 

[VR_RaidenXOF]

That's a good theory but it has to account for the post-credits stuff with Kaz/Ocelot and the wording from the timeline.

Link? It's in one of their body double videos and there are pics online. Big Boss' hair doesn't cast a shadow, assuming that to be the avatar I suppose.

 

[razzmahtazz]

I wonder if Maxing Demon points changes the story... Its what people were expecting from BB. Moustache twirling evil guy.

Its also kinda changes the meta-narrative a bit. Playing to kill rather than stealthing your way through the levels creates a wholly different legend around the BB legacy. One that is closer to how we know him in MG1 and 2.

 

[Blablurn]

Looking back I prefer Afghanistan over Africa.

How about you guys?

 

[fastmower]

I feel like Kojima took a big shit on my head with the medic boss reveal, Paz ending, and losing Quiet permanently thing. I originally wanted to keep unlocked stuff, but I think I quit now.

 

[105.Will]

https://i.imgur.com/pBZzovN.jpg

I really like this theory.

I want this to be true.

 

[Yabberwocky]

I disagree I totally love the aspect of being part of the Big Boss mythos. The idea that the player is someone who has been with BB and essentially gets tasked with taking over and becoming part of the legend.

I think most of the people who are disappointed are the ones who were dead set on the game being about BB turning into some mustache twirling villain that they could hate. If there's anything MGS has taught it's that very rarely are there people who are truly evil.

I think the idea behind it was an interesting one, but the execution of it fell really flat. (In comparison, MGS1/MGS2 explored the repercussions of their big reveals, MGS2 in particular. As MGSV currently stands, it does not.)

There's also a dissonance with Venom being a surrogate for the player that doesn't quite work. I feel like we are left in a weird limbo where Venom kinda is his own character, yet Kojima is trying to make him a blank, non-interactive slate simultaneously. The playable character being a surrogate for the player doesn't work for me when I'm playing a character outside of a first-person POV. To be honest, 'the character is you!' shtick it doesn't really work for me regardless (it's more like an interactive partnership!), and I think Portal is the only time that I've genuinely forgotten I'm controlling a character. Borderlands 2 used to drive me crazy because I couldn't understand why my PC - who had a defined personality - wasn't interacting with the world. The Pre-Sequel thankfully improves on this.

Venom could have also beaten out SS/BB/Raiden in the interesting protagonist department. (Venom and Solid could have gone head to head in a Whose Life Did Big Boss Make More Shit competition.) We don't really get to see how the reveal - which is a pretty cruel and horrific thing to have happen to you - effects him. I know, I know, yadda-yadda, it's about how it effects us. It's a shame and a waste of a character. Venom has some really great moments where he is very much his own person. The Ep. 51 Eli scenes, and Venom breaking up a fight between two soldiers in Mother Base are my two favorites. Yet, then there is the Skullface truck scene... such a weird dissonance.

 

[fastmower]

Looking back I prefer Afghanistan over Africa.

How about you guys?

I do too. It has more verticality.

 

[Fr0stbyte]

Looking back I prefer Afghanistan over Africa.

How about you guys?

Same, the savanna wasn't very interesting but I did appreciate the patches of jungle in Africa.

 

[Blackstarhat]

huey is an asshole.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Same, the savanna wasn't very interesting but I did appreciate the patches of jungle in Africa.

Missions in that area around the villa were too few, but were amazing and gave me Snake Eater feels.

 

[Hasney]

Quiet is a crutch. Time to get rid and move on people.

 

[MMarston]

New to the Spoiler thread, but did anyone else see/talk about the unfinished deleted episode on Kotaku yet? It's actually very satisfying to watch in itself in concluding the Eli arc despite being very rough around the edges.

http://kotaku.com/one-of-metal-gear-solid-vs-most-important-story-scenes-1728467641


It's just a damn shame we didn't get to play it ourselves.

 

[Auto_aim1]

I had a mission 42 save file in the cloud heuheuheu. Quiet will be mine again.

 

[adamsapple]

New to the Spoiler thread, but did anyone else see/talk about the unfinished deleted episode on Kotaku yet? It's actually very satisfying to watch in itself in concluding the Eli arc despite being very rough around the edges.

http://kotaku.com/one-of-metal-gear-solid-vs-most-important-story-scenes-1728467641


It's just a damn shame we didn't get to play it ourselves.

Yep, watching the video gives off a decent enough conclusion to what Kojima was planning too (lip sync aside).

At least we have SOMETHING to go by.

Wouldn't be surprised if this and more missions wind up as possible DLC before Kojima departs in December.

 

[Fandangox]

https://i.imgur.com/pBZzovN.jpg

Honestly at this point "is ocelot a time traveler" is a lot more plausible than whatever else and would end up explaining a lot more of the shenanigans in this series.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Now we just need to learn the lore behind Running Man, poisonous hamsters, and why an owl hooting somehow made a soldier on guard duty think its nighttime despite it being broad daylight.

Parasites.

 

[npa189]

I still have a few story beats to dig out but I just decided to look up the ending because I'm really burnt out on the game now that Chapter 2 is just repeat missions mostly. Venom Snake has kinda soured me on the game, but it does make sense. The legend of Big Boss is just that, and its too big for one man by now, the way guards talk about him elevates him to myth status. I still find the story severely lacking as a whole, performances felt wooden, too many info dumps in the tapes, and not nearly enough Ocelot. In hindsight this game could have never lived up to the hype for me, but I consider the Venom twist to be a Kojima troll just for the sake of it. I understand his message of memes, but this wasn't needed. This game should have starred the real Boss, but strangely enough I consider Venom to be more Big Boss than naked snake ever was..

Damn you Kojima, you marvelous lunatic.

 

[SargerusBR]

Anyone has a link to that cutscene of MB soldiers fighting themselves? Or was that cut too?

 

[crazyrabbits]

Anyone has a link to that cutscene of MB soldiers fighting themselves? Or was that cut too?

That's in the game. Plays if you have negative GMP.

EDIT: Just noted that there's no listing of the Naked Camo for Snake in the guide. Not sure if it's even in the game. That's... odd.

 

[Marvel]

Now that I have slept on that true ending, I'm not happy at all with the way the franchise went out.

I feel like Kojima took a big shit on my head with the medic boss reveal, Paz ending, and losing Quiet permanently thing.

Yeah.

It was going ok ish for me until all that shit.

 

[crazyrabbits]

I don't think the Naked Camo for Snake (seen in the TGS 2014 presentation) is in the game. Naked (Silver) and Naked (Gold) are, but the standard camo isn't listed in the guide.

I'm also trying to find the Reddit post that listed a bunch of possible uniforms/camos that were listed in the leaked script, but not included in the game itself