Is that actually true? Kojima would do something like that.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Is that actually true? Kojima would do something like that.
Dick Justice
Banned
To be fair, Big Boss got wrecked even harder with an aerosol can and a lighter.
mgs2master2
Banned
well in my game of MG i hid behind a crate and shot remote controll rockets at him.
No, I think you can do the whole Quiet leaving thing arc after doing the "true ending".
In face, that Quiet mission kind of makes for a more appropriate send-off for the events of this specific game considering how it's executed - even has a roll credits sequence like Mission 31.
Not when it matters most. He's the last disciple of The Boss, killed the Cobra Unit, killed Volgin, destroyed the Shagohod, destroyed RAXA, bested Null, killed Cunningham, killed Gene, bested Miller, so on and so forth. The whole point of Big Boss as a character is that no random scrub could achieve these. Big Boss was special due in part to his genes (soldier genes) and his memes (training and field experience). Another soldier might have one but not the other. Big Boss had both, making him the quintessential soldier.
Big Boss is the greatest soldier of the 20th century. He has no equal save for maybe his clones, one of whom he trained directly and who later killed him. Venom is a just a particularly good scrub in the completely wrong occupation who becomes equal to Big Boss in just over a week. It's bullshit. It retroactively makes his character as presented in MG1-MGS4 meaningless, because he's really "just some dude who got lucky."
Ah okay, I'll keep that in mind then.
WrenchNinja
Member
This is the part where someone quotes Ocelot from MGS2 and Big Boss from MGS4 acting like those lines somehow make any of this make sense.
SkylineRKR
Member
I've done Truth last weekend but blocked the Quiet stuff with a butterfly. Its the thing I still have to do. But thing is I don't want to lose her because I just unlocked her awesome XOF and SW outfits.
Blackstarhat
Member
The cut ending is much better than the ending we got.
I'm not necessarily defending the story in V, but I think pretty much every time you talk about this, you show how little you really understand about MGS's themes.
I understand them just fine. More than I can say for Kojima, anyway, since he can't even stay consistent and later on just used buzzwords that didn't factor into the games at all.
Not to mention Big Boss contradicting himself.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
This game is definitely giving me a new respect for MGS4's story/cinematics.
Love it or hate it damn if it didn't go all out, and was an effective ending for the series.
Just wish certain things about 4 could have been on V's engine(Middle East, South America and Shadow Moses).
Love it or hate it damn if it didn't go all out, and was an effective ending for the series.
Just wish certain things about 4 could have been on V's engine(Middle East, South America and Shadow Moses).
Like I said, the way the final Quiet mission ends is really akin to being a "third ending" for the game. Not to mention kinda resonates more if you've been using her lot or just liked the character in general.
So yeah, rank S-ing everything else before doing it seems fitting still.
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Venom is never Big Boss' equal, he would've been killed in the hospital if the real BB wasn't there to save him.
So would Big Boss if he was in the same situation. As would Solid Snake.
SkylineRKR
Member
Solid Snake ended up doing stuff being completely aided and staged by The Patriots. He was also used by Fox Hound, as they said did you think you could really get this far on your own?
Raiden pretty much did a whole simulation, everyone was played like a damn fiddle.
In MGS4, SS was being aided by Ocelot. I know the unit and Ocelot tried to kill you but he was aided and ultimately fulfilled Ocelots goal.
In MGSV, Venom is being played like a damn fiddle by BB.
Its alright for this franchise. Its ridiculous, but its Metal Gear. I could easily accept Mission 46. And its not like the hints were never there. What about him was in the first trailer. The faceless medic was in GZ. People saw it coming, but thought Ishmael was the Medic. Though he's clearly been the mentor. Is it a story and BB development cop out? yes. Same with SS not commiting suicide in MGS4. We didn't experience the downfall of BB which is Kojima being a troll.
Raiden pretty much did a whole simulation, everyone was played like a damn fiddle.
In MGS4, SS was being aided by Ocelot. I know the unit and Ocelot tried to kill you but he was aided and ultimately fulfilled Ocelots goal.
In MGSV, Venom is being played like a damn fiddle by BB.
Its alright for this franchise. Its ridiculous, but its Metal Gear. I could easily accept Mission 46. And its not like the hints were never there. What about him was in the first trailer. The faceless medic was in GZ. People saw it coming, but thought Ishmael was the Medic. Though he's clearly been the mentor. Is it a story and BB development cop out? yes. Same with SS not commiting suicide in MGS4. We didn't experience the downfall of BB which is Kojima being a troll.
WrenchNinja
Member
No, I really don't think you do.
One thing that's been consistent throughout the series is the undercutting of "legendary" people. In MGS1, Snake beats Liquid despite being the inferior clone of Big Boss, the legendary solider, in MGS2, Snake undercuts his own legend to Raiden when Raiden seems unable to understand why Solid Snake (Solidus) became a terrorist and his legendary experience is easily replicated through S3, MGS3 serves as an entire episode of undercutting the legendary status of Big Boss since the whole mission was basically him being guided by The Boss, and MGS4 undercuts many of Solid Snake's legendary feats by most of it being a pawn and guided by The Patriots.
The fact that you classify Big Boss as you have pretty much shows that this aspect of the series has gone over your head. The fact that V is essentially some dude becoming Big Boss, literally, fits perfectly within that theme regardless of how well the narrative around it is.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Well, Venom Snake was already trained by Big Boss plus he got his memories, so I can see a combination of the two to allow him to very quickly adapt on the field. That plus the fact that... well... you are the one playing him, of course he's reached Big Boss levels.
Why?
Cause you're Big Boss. You're the one who has managed to finish all these levels, in the way you wanted to. Of course you're legendary, you tore through Afghanistan and Angola like nobody's business.
Why?
Cause you're Big Boss. You're the one who has managed to finish all these levels, in the way you wanted to. Of course you're legendary, you tore through Afghanistan and Angola like nobody's business.
He had help from Eva though...and ocelot too.
A lot of people were working to help snake succeed. Solid meanwhile mostly just had otacon.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Eva really should have had a scene or 2 in this.
As much as I wanted Paremedic and DARPA chief in, she really needed it.
Campbell as well but whatever.
Heck I wanted Gurlukavich as the Soviet's commander but knew that wouldn't happen..
Roufianos
Member
Yea. I honestly thought that the massacre of the kids implied in the 2013 trailer would be one example of many where it was a "means to an end" but we saw nothing of the sort. Nobody suffered from their quest for revenge except those who deserved it.
Kojima spoke a lot about controversial themes and a dark tone but I didn't see any of it. Nothing came close to topping the surgery scene in GZ. The story had no emotional moments at all for me. Moments that showed promise in the trailers often turned out to be inconsequential.
Gameplay wise it's an absolute masterpiece but it's going to be hard to go back to knowing that I'm not even playing as Big Boss.
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Big Boss and Solid Snake would've at least had their wits and instinct to guide them, remenber how Venom doesn't try to duck when they're shooting the doctors or is completely clueless about picking up a gun at first.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I wonder if more stuff got cut out than just the Kingdom of the Flies finale.
Roufianos
Member
The horn and tail implied it too.
The "Men become demons" line.
His transition to Skull Face in the last trailer.
Project Ogre.
Also what happend to the scene at the start of the E3 2014 trailer? All the dead bodies?
That was due to coming out of a 9 year coma. He was solider beforehand, not a fucking idiot.
SkylineRKR
Member
People complain about Medic but the controversial stuff not being there is the biggest cop out for me. GZ set it up nicely, I thought TPP would be a really dark game. Nothing in TPP is as dark as the GZ tapes and surgery scene. No training of child soldiers close up, no waterboarding and shooting in the back at Camp Omega.
You cannot even kill child soldiers.
You cannot even kill child soldiers.
I can understand themes without getting sucked into pretentious babble that makes no real sense other than to support a sketchy narrative.
In MGS1, it's never stated exactly how Solid Snake is meant to be inferior. Genetically it makes no sense, since whether he has dominant or recessive alleles wouldn't make much of a difference. Does it refer to his experience? Well then of course he bested Liquid because Liquid wasn't the one who went through Outer Heaven and Zanzibar and beat Big Boss twice, which ties into my original post. The game goes out of its way to portray Liquid and Solid as opposites, but also equals. So Kojima can't arrive at the point in his own narrative.
In MGS2, Raiden is already an extremely capable soldier who was the best child soldier in Liberia, trained from childhood by Solidus Snake, who followed Solid Snake's mythos and underwent VR training. During the Big Shell incident, he succeeds only with the help of others. He doesn't do anything particularly special besides killing Solidus and a fat bomber on roller skates. He doesn't match Solid Snake, and that was never the point of the S3 Plan to begin with. It was to see if people could be made to play specific roles if presented appropriate context. This doesn't translate to "magically become best soldier ever." The next time we see Raiden he's been literally dismembered. He was never equal to Solid Snake.
MGS3 depicted Big Boss' earliest major mission at a crucial turning point in the series that serves as the progenitor of everything else. It didn't undercut anything, it showed how he came to be the best soldier that century. He was still just as legendary as before, as you can't become a great soldier without training and experience, both of which were explained by MGS3.
MGS4's story is where the whole thing collapsed so it's not a great example. It's a game absolutely buggered with retcons, contradictions and shittier writing than any of its predecessors. Peace Walker and MGSV just followed suit.
Wits and instincts aren't shit if your muscles are dead. Venom might as well have just stayed in a coma.
People don't "get" memories. Not even in MGS2 is this ever a thing. Even if it were possible, how would you do it? Would the person remember absolutely every single action and thought at the time of the memory? Or do they just have a vague notion of "something happened"?
Oh, and "meta" doesn't mean "good."
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
it honestly feels like Konami went "no, you can't do that in our game" so Kojima had to rewrite everything and make it so the body double reveal was the big climax, instead of it happening and then we see Big Boss turning into a demon
I'm sure it did. You don't do a chapter system for only two parts.
I had over 400 people when this happened so I wasn't sure if I had the Kikongo or Russian strain.
Thankfully I picked right but I would've raged so much if 400 of my guys got infected because the game couldn't just give me one guy who knew Kikongo and not Russian.
That whole mechanic was terrible, though. They should've made it easier to put those people in the sickbay rather than going one by one.
I would go as far as to say you don't do a chapter system for just one chapter.
He should have stabbed him in the eye right there
I wish BB would've killed him, he deserved death more than the countless ways I had killed up to that point. All the people I had killed up to the point where just normal people who had done nothing to BB but then he lets Huey leave? Wut
Did he have to let him leave because he does shit related to the plot in future games? I don't recall him over showing up in MGS 1, 2 or 4 but maybe he did some behinds the scene stuff, I dunno.
Alright then...
Roufianos
Member
That's not a bad idea but I doubt it mainly because the GDC 2013 trailer shows that the Venom Snake twist was long planned. That was made just a few months after Kojima was hyping up his controversial themes in interviews.
If anything I think his conflict with Konami might be due to the body double twist. Look at how poorly MGS3 sold compared to 2. People don't like being misled.
Let's not take the blame away from Kojima and his usual "I got to shock my audience" fetish.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
How many photos do you bring to Paz to finish her side quest.
The only reason Huey lives in this game is because of Kojima's lack of foresight, or hindsight for that matter. He already wrote that Otacon's father killed himself post-V.
Basically, Kojima wrote himself into yet another corner and his only solution was nonsense.
He's the M. Night Shyamalan of video games.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
I chose to shoot skull face. Doesn't huey still kill him anyway? I don't remember. The cutscene was that forgettable
Akiyama_AE
Member
you didn't see the Paz scene where she pulls her stomach out that was dark and nasty even though its a hallucination
Doesn't answer my question. My point was that actual complete memories can't be given to someone in that actual complete manner. Nobody was there for Big Boss' most formative moments. The best anyone could do is tell Venom "you killed The Boss." But how does that do anything other than make him think he's Big Boss but when push comes to shove he'd just get stomped?
I can give myself a false memory of being able to roundhouse kick an apple off a woman's head, but it's not going to stop me from breaking her jaw.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
WHHOOOOOO?!?!?!
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
because he was jealous of him i guess
Akiyama_AE
Member
*gets pulled away by XOF unit*
He mad jelly because Big Boss speaks better English than he can.
SkylineRKR
Member
I did, but it was pretty much some sort of a recap of GZ. Also saw the fisting action which was nasty as well.
Still, a lot of controversial stuff was being unused. But perhaps Konami was like 'broad audience breh, dial it down'
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
There have been cases of police getting false confessions on unstable individuals in the past by suggesting things and straight up manipulation.
Considering Venom was in a coma for nearly a decade, has the face of Big Boss and is constantly surrounded by people who call him Big Boss, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that all those "tapes" were nothing more than suggestive manipulation and false memory implants to make Venom a near carbon copy.
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